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3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Do you love your new Hercules set? Can't get enough of FansProject's items? Upset that you bought a knock off when you thought you were getting an original? Use this forum to tell everyone your thoughts about unlicensed and knock off TF products.

3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby GetRightRobot » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:18 pm

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The 3rd party movement has grown dramatically over the past few years. From small accessory upgrades, to massive and costly combiners. In years past, 3rd party toy manufacturers have held significant presence at the annual Official Transformers Convention, Botcon. Not this year. It has been officially stated that dealers are not to sell any unlicensed Transformers related product in Dallas TX this year. From the dealer contract:

Promoter and its designees, including Hasbro, Inc., each reserves the right to ban or deny display of any item for any reason. Promoter and its designees, including Hasbro, Inc., each reserves the right to confiscate any items that violates these rules and regulations. Exhibitor agrees to permit such confiscation without incident and agrees that all confiscated items shall become the property of Promoter or its designee and may be turned over to the appropriate authorities. Exhibitor herby [sic] waives and all claims against the Promotor [sic] or Hasbro, Inc. with respect to any removal of person or confiscation of items.


TFCC:

From our understanding, just want to reiterate what you have gotten in email responses from us...

As long as it is official Hasbro OR TakaraTomy product then they are official products. They can also sell officially Licensed TF goods from Hasbro or TT.

If it's either made by Hasbro or TakaraTomy it is officially licensed by Hasbro or TakaraTomy, anything else is a knock off or an unofficially licenced good.

So. To be 100% clear... Licensed Transformers either from Hasbro or Takara Tomy are fine. Licensed Sci-Fi related toys from other companies is fine as well. However, again, anything that violates Hasbro IP should not be brought to BotCon.

I am afraid that details will not be provided. There are SO many 3rd party items, no one is going to provide a list of what is acceptable "unlicensed" toys.

If it is unlicensed, assume it is unacceptable. Just about every 3rd party piece somehow draws on Hasbro IP, so, if you think it may in any way infringe on Hasbro's IP odds are they DO consider it an infringement.

The language they provided for our contract is the warning. Just don't bring the stuff to the show.

BotCon has had amazing Exhibitor Halls for almost 20 years, MANY of those LONG before all of these IP infringing items hit the market. I am sure it will still be an amazing Hall this year and for many years to come!


We were also advised to expect an official statement on this matter soon.

If you have any questions regarding the sale of item you should contact Fun Publications at info@funpubinc.com or click here to view the Information provided by Botcon.com by clicking here.

We will continue to update you on this development as more information becomes available.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012

Postby AutobotMR2 » Thu Mar 15, 2012 12:23 pm

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And so it begins.....does that mean that Companies that fail to provide proper security for it's customers private and personal information will also be "removed"....I'm looking at you FunPub!
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby AutobotMR2 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:14 pm

Motto: "That sound you hear is the roar of a Mach 5 engine speeding your way!"
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And the downward cycle begins.... :BANG_HEAD: :BANG_HEAD: :BANG_HEAD:
Looking to acquire a complete set of the G1 Insecticons (Bombshell, Kickback, and Shrapnel). They dont have to be MISB, have the cards. The TRU re-issues are fine too. The only person that can verify my buying status is CounterPunch as he is the only person I have purchased from.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Optimutt » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:24 pm

Motto: "Victory if nothing if you don't enjoy everything leading to it."
No only was it a matter of time, but I, for one, welcome this.

Hasbro/TT do own the intellectual rights to these properties. While I'm quite impressed by the work 3rd parties have been doing, they really aren't TFs. The one 3rd party I have - Warbot Defender - is Springer, but the moment Has/Tax puts out a real Springer, I'll likely scrap it. If people want to create their own toys, go for it. But that doesn't mean that they are real TFs.

The Singapore Cybertron Con this week proved that focusing entirely on Has/Tak TF's in no way curtails the quality or supply of goods available. Kudos to you Mr. Archer and co for making this decision and following through on it.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby wolverinetodd » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:25 pm

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Hasbro/Takara is just mad because these Third Party groups are turning out better things than they ever could, thus cutting into their wallets. It's all political BS.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby GetRightRobot » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:26 pm

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First steps? Or saving face? Either way, it's not like you have a shortage of things to spend money at Botcon.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Dark Ops » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:28 pm

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Maybe they got tired of being upstaged?
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby cannonfodder4000 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:29 pm

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Dark Ops wrote:Maybe they got tired of being upstaged?


#-o

Is all I can say, to that.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:35 pm

I put the blame for this on whatever KO Toys did to get shut down. First them. Then the WSTFs from Justitoys (I believe it was them) disappear. And now this. It looks like Hasbro's FINALLY getting tough on them. Really, I think they're just sick of people using their intellectual property ... and I can't blame them. I know there's some who will, but it *is* the OFFICIAL TF con, after all.

It was only a matter of time. Actually, I'm surprised it didn't happen the first year the 3rd party started! People joked that the 3rd party booth was right under the Hasbro rep's nose and here's the consequence. But it was preatty expected.

Hopefully this doesn't happen at TFcon.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Burn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:45 pm

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wolverinetodd wrote:Hasbro/Takara is just mad because these Third Party groups are turning out better things than they ever could, thus cutting into their wallets. It's all political BS.


:lol:

Yeah, third party stuff is REALLY affecting their sales.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby DISCHARGE » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:54 pm

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I always looked at Botcon as a celebration for Transformers. While knock offs being banned I can understand, but all 3rd party products? That's a shame.
All it will do is limit profits made by dealers. People who want them will
undoubtedly get them online anyway.

Listen, people are going to have these at Botcon, in hotel rooms, the trunks of their cars, under a bridge.

It's gonna work like the guy selling fireworks in the
parking lot of the local BP(yeah, I've bought them there).
You're gonna ask "Where's the good stuff?"
He's gonna size you up, point his finger in the air and whisper "Wait til this guy here leaves." He's gonna ask what you're interested in, you're gonna tell em and he probably will be able to help you out.
All the time you've spent getting illicit goods is gonna pay off. You're gonna get your fix and geek out in your hotel room with your buddies and the 3rd party stuff you worked so hard to procure.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby bvzxa » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:55 pm

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I think it is a shot-in-the-face to fans. I get it's their ip, but with the exception of KO-Toys and some of TFC toys, many are trying to give a more faithful version of the characters than Hasbro is trying to do.

I see this getting tighter every year. I was impressed with most of the 3P stuff over the years. We already got Springer, a repaint of Cybertron Evac, and it was not a triple changer. Worse it didn't even match the comic they threw in.

Fans Project Warbot isn't perfect but it's close as to Springer as you can get.

I think they are worried about being upstaged by design, not by profit. FansProject enhanced many of the sorry repaints (Ultra Magnus) to a new level.

I don't attend Botcon. To be honest paying 10x to 50x mark-up for a repaint and slight remold is getting absurd now. And the way Hasbro has been playing their hand along with FP, I think I know why I am moving faster away from the hobby.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby AutobotCliffjumper » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:56 pm

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I made a vlog about this along with a bunch of other stuff just yesterday. I think they are feeling the heat from 3rd parties and would rather just cut them out entirely. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=l_Gc9dJKm8c&feature=plcp&context=C4c53d5eVDvjVQa1PpcFPL92PPu7-l9kchmMXCtFPR_R6e5-i9nWc%3D
Check it out if you guys would like.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby DarkBowzer » Fri Mar 16, 2012 9:58 pm

well it looks like besides box set and souvenier sets I will not be spending money at botcon. because if it isnt an affordable tf prime first edition toy or a 3rd party item. they will be saving me money.....

When third party is making your own **** product better than you hasbro/ takara WHAT THE **** DO YOU EXPECT TO HAPPEN?!?!??!?!?

We have asked for a G1 accurate Arcee that turns into a car, they give us excuses.WHen asked about it at last years botcon by my homie they gave a bullshit answer stating "if we do an Arcee it will only be used from the Arcee from the tf prime series. We have asked for numerous triplechangers like an official springer or a blitzwing we get more BS(and dont give me that horse **** about "they did a blitzwing for animated" because quite frankly I dont give a damn. 3rd party is giving us what we ask for in thier own way which actually breaths new life in toys that we would probably throw in a closet or on ebay(because honestly how many people would have kept a naked ultra magnus optimus prime repaint before just dismissing it as a cheesy pallet swap?) As much as I have stood by hasbro and some of the stupid **** they do And now asia is getting all this awesome **** I heard about and we are here in the states high and dry I have to say at this point **** them. I am 3rd party with good quality all the way this year.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:06 pm

I doubt Hasbro if "feeling the heat" from 3rd parties. Look at what they're selling: movie toys, Prime toys ... anything except what the 3rd parties make. And they seem to be doing well for themselves.

But if you don't defend your IP you lose it. You just do. With that in mind ... I can understand what they're doing. It sucks and I'd be pissed were I going to Botcon (since all I've been getting lately are not-Transformers), but I can see what's happening.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Kung Fu Man » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:14 pm

I would say they would do better defending their IP by not ensuring a Bumblebee to warm every shelf from every generation, or not releasing a toy of a character meant for collectors at one website only for over $150 when they know a third party is selling a representation of the character with higher distribution. But what do I know?

I'm well aware that they have corporate heads to answer to and so forth, and that's why we don't see the characters we want and so forth and so on. And yeah, it's their IP. Not to mention even if they did do a "no more third parties" move, their sales would probably be most unaffected.

Yet this still puts a sour taste in my mouth for Hasbro and Botcon on the whole.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Burn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:20 pm

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
Never understood why with all these 3rd party companies out there and all their rabid supporters who are so anti-Hasbro that they've never bothered to develop their own universe, their own characters, something that will set them completely apart from Hasbro and Transformers.

Oh wait, that would require originality, and it's so much easier to rip off an existing character that someone else owns.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Che » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:24 pm

Oh no, here it goes again... >:oP

There was already a HUGE discussion about these news at tfw2005:

http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transformers-conventions-get-togethers/543548-attention-botcon-2012-dealers-third-party-toys-banned-botcon-73.html

It has evolved to an interesting discussion regarding property rights. Summing up:

- Botcon has become Hasbro party and so Hasbro has the right to say who can sell what, although Hasbro doesn't have the police power to confiscate anything (but they can ask sellers to leave...)

- Property rights of concepts and designs (intangible things, no trademarks) are a great thing to reward innovation, that's why creators have exclusive rights of their creations for years, but after sometime those rights cannot be abused to justify monopolies, and that's why things should become public domain after the "reward period", especially old almost forgotten (neglected?) concepts and designs.

- There is no crystal clear line separating what is something original and what is an illegal cheap copy. Yes, when you just copy everything, that is pretty illegal, but how much modification is necessary to something become original (or at least not illegal)? Hercules has the concept of Devastator, but its engineering is much more complex, for example. HasTak also have modified some car designs just enough to avoid problems with their manufactures, so where is the line?

- Anyway, 3rd part has been growing enough (filling some voids left by HasTak) to start taking more risks and making original characters. I'm all up for more competition by creativity.

I'm tired now of this discussion, enjoy, I'm reading other stuff :-B

PS: Ah, I forgot, please, this is not about love or hate HasTak or 3rd part companies, nobody is innocent and constructive critics putting passion a little at the side are always good.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Court Jester » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:25 pm

This talk is a little too corporate-centric for a gathering of fans of transforming robots.

Confiscation of toys - under any circumstance - is douchebaggery - and I gotta call shenanigans. Sure, it's legal to do so. Sure, they have the right to stipulate anything under their official convention. But, this doesn't sound extreme to anyone? These are goods that have been legally bought by the dealers - most of which do not directly bootleg any official molds of Hasbro or actually cross the line of IP theft defined by the courts of our nation. But to take said goods without payment is just point. blank. wrong.

But if you're gonna take a stand like this, you make a statement to the fandom that embrace this part of the hobby (the customizer, the painter, the aspiring toy creator, the CAD modeler, the freelance line artist and colorist, the fanfictioner, the corner shop small business, and everywhere between). To me, that statement is this - don't bother with Botcon. No biggie. No resentment. Info simulated.

See you at TFCon - late July right? Encline is also hyping a Northern Cali convention (word spreads fast within our fandom).
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Kung Fu Man » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:29 pm

Burn wrote:Never understood why with all these 3rd party companies out there and all their rabid supporters who are so anti-Hasbro that they've never bothered to develop their own universe, their own characters, something that will set them completely apart from Hasbro and Transformers.


Probably because people aren't so much attached to Hasbro as to the fictional representations of the characters seen in the cartoons, comics etc. People want that image they grew up with so they can lift that thing up and feel nostalgia. If someone wants Bruticus because they loved the character in Sunbow's cartoon, and you show them Fansproject's vs the WFC toy, which do you think they'll go for?
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby bionic_radical » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:36 pm

Burn wrote:Never understood why with all these 3rd party companies out there and all their rabid supporters who are so anti-Hasbro that they've never bothered to develop their own universe, their own characters, something that will set them completely apart from Hasbro and Transformers.

Oh wait, that would require originality, and it's so much easier to rip off an existing character that someone else owns.


Mecha Workshop is an exciting new line of transforming robots made by none other than fan favorite, Don Figueroa! It involves unique, interesting characters that are sure to be followed by original content! I've provided a link for you to check out!

http://mecha-workshop.deviantart.com/

Also, a facebook page!!

https://www.facebook.com/Armarauders

You should check them out, and please take your time, in hopes that we don't have to read any more of the baiting statements you provide.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Burn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:37 pm

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
Kung Fu Man wrote:
Burn wrote:Never understood why with all these 3rd party companies out there and all their rabid supporters who are so anti-Hasbro that they've never bothered to develop their own universe, their own characters, something that will set them completely apart from Hasbro and Transformers.


Probably because people aren't so much attached to Hasbro as to the fictional representations of the characters seen in the cartoons, comics etc. People want that image they grew up with so they can lift that thing up and feel nostalgia. If someone wants Bruticus because they loved the character in Sunbow's cartoon, and you show them Fansproject's vs the WFC toy, which do you think they'll go for?


I like how you only partly quoted me, thus missing my point. Well done.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Mkall » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:38 pm

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I don't go to botcon for 3rd party stuff - I get most of that stuff online. I go to the con to see what Hasbro will be showing us next year.

This doesn't particularly affect me, although last year there were shops dedicated to only selling KOs and CHMS stuff, I hope to see them replaced with more interesting sellers.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby Burn » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:40 pm

Motto: "Freedom is the right of all sentient beings to randomly click things in the Admin Panel to see what it breaks."
bionic_radical wrote:You should check them out, and please take your time, in hopes that we don't have to read any more of the baiting statements you provide.


Baiting? Don't push me. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as you are.

I have seen Mecha Workshop stuff and I really hope it does succeed.
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Re: 3rd Party Ban at Botcon 2012?

Postby DISCHARGE » Fri Mar 16, 2012 10:43 pm

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Burn wrote:
bionic_radical wrote:You should check them out, and please take your time, in hopes that we don't have to read any more of the baiting statements you provide.


Baiting? Don't push me. I'm entitled to my opinion as much as you are.

I have seen Mecha Workshop stuff and I really hope it does succeed.


Yeah that stuff looks killer, I can't wait for it.
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