Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Well most who seen the film will label Sentinel prime as a traitor to the autobots and his action most treacherously foul, I have been thinking about his motives behind his treacherous actions. I mean all he wanted is the revivl of his beloved planet and race, will we humans be any different if we ourselves face oblivion, extinction and planetary destruction? Our governments would not hesitate for a microsecond to sacrifice other races or even other planets to ensure the survival of our very own. In fact I full support his actions although traitorous are justifiable as the needs of many overwhelms those of little. In fact optimus prime is the real traitor to cybertron, first sending the allspark to space thus ensuring the destruction of cybertron and then putting the interest of those less than grateful humans over the long term survival of cybertron and the transformers race. In the G1 cartton when megatron pull off a similar trick of transporting cybertron to earth's atmosphere, optimus did not stop megatron at last minute out of love and loyalty for his planet, though of course he manage to save both planets in that continuity. Even megatron show more love and loyalty to his mother planet and race. Optimus is undeniably the hero of earth but a useless traitor of cybertron, a disgrace to the lineage of prime and instead of calling him optimus prime, I think he should be label as octopus slime ahahaha . Sentinel prime should eulogized as the Hero and Would Be Savior of Cybertron.
WHAT DO U GUYS THINK?

Your wrong
cybertron was nothing but a wasteland salvaged by war
he couldnt bring everyone back to life anyways

I think Sentinel was just poorly written.
Its hard to figure his character out.
He seems to abandon the autobots, side with the decepticons and just becomes a decepticon. He values his race more than anything else. He wants cybertronians to live, and flourish, but has no problem with autobots being killed.
When autobots were taken hostage by decepticons and not sentinel....it's really confusing as to who the bad guys are.

I don't really think it's that confusing. Sentinel is obsessed with the race of the Transformers flourishing, and having a new planet. By killing the Autobots, he's killing the idea of the humans being valuble, as well as there technically being peace, since he's basically a Decepticon leader now. It's just an evil peace...if that makes sense.

Still both sides saw casualties in fighting. If you're after peace, why throw both sides you care about into a fight?
That's really stupid. Sentinel doesn't seem like he's after peace at all. It seems like he's just after whatever michael bay needed for big action scenes.

Screamfleet wrote:Still both sides saw casualties in fighting. If you're after peace, why throw both sides you care about into a fight?
That's really stupid. Sentinel doesn't seem like he's after peace at all. It seems like he's just after whatever michael bay needed for big action scenes.

No, thats a really... Err.. Dumb coment. If you didnt agree with Sentinel's role then thats one thing. But to use it as an excuse just for bay to use for explosions and such is wrong. Sorry, but it really isnt that hard to understand.
Sentinel made an agrement with megatron because his enterest was to preserve what was left of cybertron and use human labor to rebuild it. When he awoke on earth, the first thing Optimus said was...
"Sentinel, your home now!" ..or something in that nature. The Autobots have obviously been happy on earth and have built a relationship with them. Sentinel knew that and figures there's nothing he could do to change it. So he offs Ironhide so he can continue his original plan to meet up with Megatron.
Now i still believe that if he felt he had another option instead of betraying the autobots he probabaly would have taken that route. Deep down i dont think he was truely proud of what he was doing. I think this is why he didnt accept the matrix from optimus and asked for Optimus to forgive him right before he activated the pillars. But ultimately, his goal was to rebuild cybertron and nothing was going to gey in the way of that. Megatron and the other decepticons were mearly "buisness partners". Nothing more, nothing less

So now I'm dumb and it's not bad writing?
What you think is not what is displayed in the movie. Sentinel is a largely inconsistent character. If you fill in the gaps on your own, of course it's easy to under stand.
Why does Sentinel

-Not take the Matrix
-Hang around with the Autobots
-Kill Ironhide
-Not kill Optimus
-Attempt to kill Optimus and all Autobots
-Go to Chicago
-Have parts of chicago destroyed
-Plan to use humans to rebuild cybertron
-Have humans senseless killed
-Wait 15 hours before activating the pillars
-Stand around in plain sight

The biggest problem with Sentinel is people trying to explain a character as if he has some depth, when he's really just a shallow villain. This guy is bi-polar or something. Really, he is a tool of Michael Bay to accomplish actions scenes. They came up with all the action scenes and such first, and tried to make a story fit it. Sentinel is not a well developed character. If you see more than that it's certainly not in the movie.

Screamfleet wrote:So now I'm dumb and it's not bad writing?
What you think is not what is displayed in the movie. Sentinel is a largely inconsistent character. If you fill in the gaps on your own, of course it's easy to under stand.
Why does Sentinel

-Not take the Matrix
-Hang around with the Autobots
-Kill Ironhide
-Not kill Optimus
-Attempt to kill Optimus and all Autobots
-Go to Chicago
-Have parts of chicago destroyed
-Plan to use humans to rebuild cybertron
-Have humans senseless killed
-Wait 15 hours before activating the pillars
-Stand around in plain sight

The biggest problem with Sentinel is people trying to explain a character as if he has some depth, when he's really just a shallow villain. This guy is bi-polar or something. Really, he is a tool of Michael Bay to accomplish actions scenes. They came up with all the action scenes and such first, and tried to make a story fit it. Sentinel is not a well developed character. If you see more than that it's certainly not in the movie.

I never said you were dumb. Just that your coment was dumb. But one thing is obvious, you didn't read my post, cause half of your questions were addressed. And most of them aren't assumptions, but things taken right out from the movie. So this leads me to believe that you either weren't paying attention, or just didn't want to care in the first place. But just so were clear, lets go through everything you seam to have a hard time figuring out...

1.- As i said before, its suggested in the movie, that he is not proud of what he is doing. This is evendent by him asking Optimus for forgivness right before he activates the pillars. He knew what he was going to do already, so he proabably didn't feel worthy of accepting the Matrix. And becides, i don't see how it could have benifted him anyhow.

2.- When he woke up, he had no clue were he was. He didn't even know what planet he was on. He had to make sure that the plan was still in motion. The apearing on the freeway suggest that the plan was still in motion. All he needed to do now was get back to the hanger and retrieve the 5 pillars.

3.-Ironhide just took out the Dreads. He is the Autobots weapons speacialist, and next to Optimus, presumably, there best warrior. Thus, the one that could possible stop Sentinel. Bottom line Ironhide stood in the way, and was an eaasy target.

4.-Now this part i'm confuzed a bit.. Are you referring to the hanger scene when he turned, or when they were fighting? Cause he wasn't at the hanger when he turned, and he was going to kill him, but Megatron saved him when he shot Sentinel in the back

5.-um.. Cause the battle was in chicago?


6.-He didn't directly have Chicago destroyed. That was the decepticons. And the point was to iliminate any possible human interferance and creat a perimiter. If you remember, the con ships shot down any aircraft that approuched the cirt, and killed any humans on the ground.

7.-Humans were going to be used as labor. Dude, did you even watch the movie???

8.- See answer number six.

9.- He wanted the Autobots gone. once they were gone (at least once he thought they were gone and destroyed) he began the proccess of activating the pillars. I also believe (and this part i could be wrong, i can't remember exactly) i thik the pillars needed to charge.

10.-Why should he? As far as he knew, the Autobots were gone and he had an intire decpeticon Army to protect him. In his mind, he was "A God" as he even said himself in the movie

All of your views are largely conviluted, since most of your questions were answered by just paying attention to the movie. As for others, this isn't "Toy Story" or "Cars". Not every little aspect is going to be explained to you and at some point, your going to need to fill in some of the blanks yourself. Just because you didn't pay attention doesn't mean others didn't. I'll admit, that one thing that many movie TF's lack is character development, but in this case Sentinel Prime defneatly wasn't one of them.

It's funny you ask if I watched the movie, when there's things you didn't pick up on yourself. I don't care what's been "suggested", it should have been in the movie.
I clearly did watch the movie, but I'm done with you talking down to me and being disrespectful. You don't want to have a civil discussion fine, good day to you.
Please, don't bother trying to explain anything for my benefit. I know you're not, you're doing it for yourself. Why even bother explaining things to me if you're not going to respect me?

My intent of calling your coment "dumb" was not to insult you. But after looking back, i can see how it would have been perceved that way. For that i apoligise. I also did not mean to talk down to you in any way. Not sure how you got that from my post. I was mearly asking questions and responding to yours. But i was sencere in when i asked if you had watched the movie. Cause many of your questions were simple and were clearly explained

Screamfleet wrote:It's funny you ask if I watched the movie, when there's things you didn't pick up on yourself. I don't care what's been "suggested", it should have been in the movie.

Ok, such as? The only points that i concluded to on my own was why Sentinel didn't take the matrix. I guess also the reason for killing Ironhide. And since I brought it up, i will admit that part of it was to give the audience that "shock" of "Oh my god!..He's a traitor!"

Screamfleet wrote:I clearly did watch the movie, but I'm done with you talking down to me and being disrespectful. You don't want to have a civil discussion fine, good day to you.
Please, don't bother trying to explain anything for my benefit. I know you're not, you're doing it for yourself. Why even bother explaining things to me if you're not going to respect me?

Again, it wasn't my intent to be disrespectfull. But it is very fustrating to here aurguments that for the most part, have already been explained. And on top of that, basicly tell people that its not possible to come to any conclusion based on the movie alone. As i said before, if you simpley don't like the way Bay made Sentinel Prime, then thats fine. But to acuse him of just using him around "explosions" is an inaccurate aurgument.

Screamfleet wrote:Still both sides saw casualties in fighting. If you're after peace, why throw both sides you care about into a fight?
That's really stupid. Sentinel doesn't seem like he's after peace at all. It seems like he's just after whatever michael bay needed for big action scenes.

"You have to crack an egg to make an omelet"

Let's be honest none of the 3 movies make any sense together. this trilogy has more plot holes than we can count.Nobody takes these movies seriously.They remind me of the matrix only stupider.It sense like they're all fun one shot movies but just like the cartoons they have plot elements that you may recognize from one to the next but there is little if any consistency in the story or the characters.
Sentinel prime for example murders ironhide in cold blood(for lack of a better term)but lets the more dangerous adversary(Optimus) live to be a threat later.Name a good leader who has ever done that.I mean they said he was the cybertronian Einstein, but he didn't consider this.
This movie was super entertaining but it was also super silly i mean really in an american city they just roll in there virtually unopposed. 2-3 jets at a time oh yeah right.The government just gives in and tells their allies (who know more about these now terrorists than anyone on the planet)get lost so we don't get steamrolled.
It was bad ass to see optimus cock that shot gun and say "we're gonna take the fight to them" or whatever but this these circumstances are as unfeasible as the whole transforming giant robot thing.
When you see the inconsistent actions of sentinel prime you have to chalk that up to writing and directing. Just like the previous film this movie tried to be too many things to too many people.They didn't try to fill any of the holes in rotf's story either.
Think about what this movie is:Giant robots from another planet hanging out with a goofy kid and fighting for one crazy reason after another. The allspark,the matrix,destruction of the sun to turn it into energon. wow how would those 6 billion workers stayed alive without the sun it's not like food would grow on an infertile wasteland like cybertron.
When you consider all this are you surprised sentinel acted the way he did (ridiculously) because his actions were a microcosm of the whole series.Ridiculous yet extremely entertaining
I can't believe anybody went into this expecting shakespeare.
I though when I left the theater about how they could ever make a fourth installment of Transformers after they killed all the main characters except optimus and bumblebee and then i realized megatron sentinel and optimus were all dead before right? This doesn't have to make sense it's just fun.

I agree. The movie is not exactly a work of art, it is just your typical Michael Bay movie which did had the traits that distracted from the story. Overall it was an entertaining movie.

But regarding Sentinel Prime not killing OP, he probably didn't thinking he had close bond with him than Ironhide or the other Autobots. To me that made sense. And as for the world government to give in to the demands of the Sentinel Prime, that made sense considering how powerful these giant robots were and that it was an AUTOBOT that gave them an ultimatium and not a Decipitcon (RE: "I told your leaders who to believe, i was wrong").

Ok I think people are missing the subtext of thnigs here, let me help out.


Why does Sentinel

-Not take the Matrix

* He felt Prime was the leader of the autobots, and rejected it out of guilt for what he was about to do. He cared about Optimus, as he wanted to win Optimus over to his side.Optimus stood for everything he used, and if could turn him, then everything was justified in his head. Which could also unite the factions under him if Optimus did that ending the war.


-Hang around with the Autobots

* All part of the plan. He needed Optimus, and to gather knowledge of the locals briefly. Whom better to learn from and spy on than those welcome. Prime revived him, so wasn't like, hey thanks for rez...I'm now going to bad guys. He'd been shot in the following heartbeat. They were all still under the belief Sentinel was good guy, and gave him the best positioning to turn at his leisure.


-Kill Ironhide

* He was the biggest threat of all the autobots there. I mean look how badly he crushed the dreads. In a straight up fight, Ironhide probably would have lost still, but likely would have badly damaged Sentinel. So he used cosmic rust on poor old Ironhide. It was 86 over all again as he got cheap shotted.


-Not kill Optimus

* It wasn't just a war of factions, but beliefs. Sentinel figured if he could rebuild cybertron and get their race back on it's feet then Optimus would eventually see things his way. Why he spared him in DC(which both of them were holding back in the scuffle. Prime was just trying detain him.), and forced them to leave. (whether he asked Starscream to blow up the autobots ship or not is another story. That easily could have been Megatron or Screamers call.) At the end Sentinel having revealed his plans, and was shocked that even with Cybertron right there in front of his eyes...Optimus still wasn't going quit. I bring you Cybertron Optimus, and you still side with the humans. (more or less.) Sentinel wanted Optimus at his side, and to have his approval in this.

Optimus was a true beleiver in everything he learned while Sentinel was alot like Dylan. They'll try do right thing when it's convient, but when push came to shove was out to save their own skin and willing toss their morales aside if doing the right thing isn't in their best interests. Both were willing to side with the Decepticons, despite collectively making a choice that was bad for their race.

Dylan was a mirror being held up showing humans were just as capable of being monsterous was the Decepticons while Optimus was a mirror being held up showing Cybertronians can strive to for the greater good no matter even when it is to just simpler to take the easy way out.


-Attempt to kill Optimus and all Autobots

* Might not have been his plan.


-Go to Chicago

* Likely was a central location on the world near by could be easily defended.(anything on the coast line could easily be bombed to pieces by carriers and battleships like in revenge of the fallen. There's none of those on the great lakes, and would take alot of time to get them there.) The control pillar probably needed be in the middle of the batch and on a tall enough structure to broadcast it's signal more effectively, like we do with our cell or radio towers.

If you remember the episode city of steel, Megatron does something simliar to NY. All tall buildings would likely be plenty of materials to convert into a strong hold.


-Have parts of chicago destroyed

* to lay down the law to humans in the area while he set up shop. With the majority of the populations dead, and the roads and trains blocked off it would be hard to get more humans into the city.

-Plan to use humans to rebuild cybertron

*There's 7 billion of us. I' d imagine we outnumber the cybertronians, making his needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few backwards heh. We're smaller and fragile enough to push around but strong plentiful enough to do an amazing job if put to the task.

Honestly if asked Humanity probably would have done the job in exchange for new technology. Some deal could have been reached if Sentinel had pulled his head out of his exhaustport. But them puttign a gun to our heads, and saying it's our way or the highway after reducing our planet to a stripped down husk we'd never gone along with it. It would have to be a mutual gain.


-Have humans senseless killed

* The initial set up process was critical to his operates. He had to lockdown the area he was going use for his base. Killing a few potential slaves sent the message of what happens to those who would fight back.

-Wait 15 hours before activating the pillars

* He needed the rest of the pillars to be spread across the world for it to work. He says so during the film. They likely needed to be spread out enough across the planet to give the proper spacing for it to warp in all the surface area of cybertron.

-Stand around in plain sight

* He was guarding the tower where the control pillar was, the key to his plans. He was controlling the space bridge. He likely needed it to be an open location to broad cast it's signal. He was in the center of the city, and had air cover all over it. He was as protected as he was going get till he created a new stronghold.

Hope this helps hehe.

Lastjustice wrote:Ok I think people are missing the subtext of thnigs here, let me help out.


Why does Sentinel

-Not take the Matrix

* He felt Prime was the leader of the autobots, and rejected it out of guilt for what he was about to do. He cared about Optimus, as he wanted to win Optimus over to his side.Optimus stood for everything he used, and if could turn him, then everything was justified in his head. Which could also unite the factions under him if Optimus did that ending the war.


-Hang around with the Autobots

* All part of the plan. He needed Optimus, and to gather knowledge of the locals briefly. Whom better to learn from and spy on than those welcome. Prime revived him, so wasn't like, hey thanks for rez...I'm now going to bad guys. He'd been shot in the following heartbeat. They were all still under the belief Sentinel was good guy, and gave him the best positioning to turn at his leisure.


-Kill Ironhide

* He was the biggest threat of all the autobots there. I mean look how badly he crushed the dreads. In a straight up fight, Ironhide probably would have lost still, but likely would have badly damaged Sentinel. So he used cosmic rust on poor old Ironhide. It was 86 over all again as he got cheap shotted.


-Not kill Optimus

* It wasn't just a war of factions, but beliefs. Sentinel figured if he could rebuild cybertron and get their race back on it's feet then Optimus would eventually see things his way. Why he spared him in DC(which both of them were holding back in the scuffle. Prime was just trying detain him.), and forced them to leave. (whether he asked Starscream to blow up the autobots ship or not is another story. That easily could have been Megatron or Screamers call.) At the end Sentinel having revealed his plans, and was shocked that even with Cybertron right there in front of his eyes...Optimus still wasn't going quit. I bring you Cybertron Optimus, and you still side with the humans. (more or less.) Sentinel wanted Optimus at his side, and to have his approval in this.

Optimus was a true beleiver in everything he learned while Sentinel was alot like Dylan. They'll try do right thing when it's convient, but when push came to shove was out to save their own skin and willing toss their morales aside if doing the right thing isn't in their best interests. Both were willing to side with the Decepticons, despite collectively making a choice that was bad for their race.

Dylan was a mirror being held up showing humans were just as capable of being monsterous was the Decepticons while Optimus was a mirror being held up showing Cybertronians can strive to for the greater good no matter even when it is to just simpler to take the easy way out.


-Attempt to kill Optimus and all Autobots

* Might not have been his plan.


-Go to Chicago

* Likely was a central location on the world near by could be easily defended.(anything on the coast line could easily be bombed to pieces by carriers and battleships like in revenge of the fallen. There's none of those on the great lakes, and would take alot of time to get them there.) The control pillar probably needed be in the middle of the batch and on a tall enough structure to broadcast it's signal more effectively, like we do with our cell or radio towers.

If you remember the episode city of steel, Megatron does something simliar to NY. All tall buildings would likely be plenty of materials to convert into a strong hold.


-Have parts of chicago destroyed

* to lay down the law to humans in the area while he set up shop. With the majority of the populations dead, and the roads and trains blocked off it would be hard to get more humans into the city.

-Plan to use humans to rebuild cybertron

*There's 7 billion of us. I' d imagine we outnumber the cybertronians, making his needs of the many outweigh the needs of the few backwards heh. We're smaller and fragile enough to push around but strong plentiful enough to do an amazing job if put to the task.

Honestly if asked Humanity probably would have done the job in exchange for new technology. Some deal could have been reached if Sentinel had pulled his head out of his exhaustport. But them puttign a gun to our heads, and saying it's our way or the highway after reducing our planet to a stripped down husk we'd never gone along with it. It would have to be a mutual gain.


-Have humans senseless killed

* The initial set up process was critical to his operates. He had to lockdown the area he was going use for his base. Killing a few potential slaves sent the message of what happens to those who would fight back.

-Wait 15 hours before activating the pillars

* He needed the rest of the pillars to be spread across the world for it to work. He says so during the film. They likely needed to be spread out enough across the planet to give the proper spacing for it to warp in all the surface area of cybertron.

-Stand around in plain sight

* He was guarding the tower where the control pillar was, the key to his plans. He was controlling the space bridge. He likely needed it to be an open location to broad cast it's signal. He was in the center of the city, and had air cover all over it. He was as protected as he was going get till he created a new stronghold.

Hope this helps hehe.

HAha.. Preety much everything i had said in my post on the first page. Good to know i'm not the only one who saw his actions in the same manner.

Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?

Gemini220 wrote:Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?

Now that i will acknowlege to bad writing. I can understand if he didn't realise that he was dead right away, but at minimuim towards the end, he should have been acknowledged. I would have even accepted having what was left of him on a trailer being towed by Optimus or even Ratchet as they were being escorted back to their ship. (Though i can understand not foing that for spoilers sake. That whole scene was shown last year on youtube. If a half desinigrated Ironhide body was in tow, that pretty much would have given away his death)

Ironhide was an iconic Character in the movieverse, and there is no excuse not to acknowledgment to his death at the end.

Edit: Was his death at laest aknowledged in the book?

Gemini220 wrote:Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?

Wasn't time to really. You can't stop to cry in middle of a war. Especially as a leader. With Jazz he saw he was dead after the battle was over. Prime had far bigger fish to fry at that time, and to stop to mourne would have only allowed more time for others to die. I suppose he could have said something when the shuttle scene happened, but getting kicked off earth was the bigger issue at that moment. he had to commit to the lie for sake of winning the war. Bringing up Ironhide might have made seem like he was driven by avenging him. (and he likely was at the end, as Prime's action speak louder than words.)

5150 Cruiser: where is the video

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Gemini220 wrote:Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?

Now that i will acknowlege to bad writing. I can understand if he didn't realise that he was dead right away, but at minimuim towards the end, he should have been acknowledged. I would have even accepted having what was left of him on a trailer being towed by Optimus or even Ratchet as they were being escorted back to their ship. (Though i can understand not foing that for spoilers sake. That whole scene was shown last year on youtube. If a half desinigrated Ironhide body was in tow, that pretty much would have given away his death)

Ironhide was an iconic Character in the movieverse, and there is no excuse not to acknowledgment to his death at the end.

Edit: Was his death at laest aknowledged in the book?

No, it wasn't really, but there was a lot of emphasis on how much it put Sam in shock.

I think there was a significant time-skip between Sentinel stealing the pillars and starting up the bridge. I assume Optimus reacted to his friend's death during that period.

ROARBO wrote:5150 Cruiser: where is the video

Um... What Video are you speaking of?

Starscream GaGa wrote:

5150 Cruiser wrote:

Gemini220 wrote:Why didn't Prime acknowledge Ironhide's death?

Now that i will acknowlege to bad writing. I can understand if he didn't realise that he was dead right away, but at minimuim towards the end, he should have been acknowledged. I would have even accepted having what was left of him on a trailer being towed by Optimus or even Ratchet as they were being escorted back to their ship. (Though i can understand not foing that for spoilers sake. That whole scene was shown last year on youtube. If a half desinigrated Ironhide body was in tow, that pretty much would have given away his death)

Ironhide was an iconic Character in the movieverse, and there is no excuse not to acknowledgment to his death at the end.

Edit: Was his death at laest aknowledged in the book?

No, it wasn't really, but there was a lot of emphasis on how much it put Sam in shock.

I think there was a significant time-skip between Sentinel stealing the pillars and starting up the bridge. I assume Optimus reacted to his friend's death during that period.

I just saw the movie again today, and just realized that there Sam was basicly in shock when Ironhide was shot. Almost like he felt responisble. So i guess there was some acknowledgement to his death, but i still feel he should have been meantioned in the end or something.

the scene you said was on utube

ROARBO wrote:the scene you said was on utube

Ahh yes. The Kennedy Space Center scene when all the Autobots rolled out in single file. This was the scene in the movie when when they were all being kicked off Earth and driving up to thier ship.

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SnWC0tFXtcw[/youtube]

[youtube]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qlsyNp9cSkU&feature=related[/youtube]

Concidering how many people were watching, if they did have what was left of ironhide in tow, it defentaly would have given away his death.

didnt see him

ROARBO wrote:didnt see him

I know. Please read my previous posts. I said it wouldn't make sence to have him in the scene the way i described because with all the people there taking pictures, it would have given away his death. NO sure how I can explain it any better.