Autobot032 wrote:Exactly. Thank you.
You're most welcome.
Autobot032 wrote:Well, that just goes to show you what he thought of the material when this all started. You have to admit, by DOTM, he eased up quite a bit on that kind of stuff. For the most part, it was just dark and violent.
Agreed. DOTM was a massive departure, and I dare say, a massive improvement from both of the earlier movies, especially story-wise. Most of my dislikes in the earlier movies have been "fixed" in DOTM, such as the overhanded promotion of the military and the use of bombing raids as a Deus Ex Machina. In DOTM, NEST teams now used more believable guerrilla tactics as well as coordinated attacks with the Autobots, instead of the usual "Stand back, our bombs will take care of it!"
Most importantly, OP now had at least a partial starring role and more characterization, what with his guilt for trusting in Sentinel.
And whatever I felt could have been omitted or changed, I just chalked up to baby steps.
Autobot032 wrote:I love how they throw him under the bus. Nice. -_-
Let's go over a quick list of their efforts, shall we?
[*]Legend Of Zorro: Pretty good, especially when it clocked in at 90 minutes. Briskly paced, considering all of what happened. Oh. Wait, what's that? There's another HOUR to go? And it's boring and slow? Aw crap. (It was exactly that.)
[*]Star Trek: Kirk has an issue with standing up. He hung off of a ledge as a child, he hung off of a ledge during the planetary drill sequence, he hung off of a ledge yet again during the final battle with Nero and his men. (How many times can you wring that idea out?!) On top of that, they made Kirk a TERRIBLE fighter. I give them credit for putting a lot of fight in him, but he clearly lacked the skill. Which the original did not. Forgot to add... Kirk just had to be bangin' the Orion chick. (I'm glad she wasn't a slave like in the original) His ho status remained intact. (Although the original wasn't that bad.)
[*]Star Trek Into Darkness: ...seriously, Jim, get some grav boots. (AKA we made him dangle near death, hanging off of something again. Cuz God Bless America, that's what the world wants to SEE!) When I saw this, again, I was like O_o Fortunately, they did give him the ability to fight well this time. Forgot to add, Kirk's doing TWINS this time in the beginning of the flick AND he stares at Carol Marcus, even though she told him to turn around and NOT look. The way she was standing there with her arms out in a "lookit me!" pose was nothing more than a gratuitous flesh show.
[*]Transformers: Adolescent freak show meets adolescent dream girl, hijinks ensue because he's an idiot and his parents are wasted on wine. But wait...what's this? His car turns into a giant alien robot? And it speaks through the radio?! NO WAI MAN! Along the way, there are jokes about a dog's bling, the dog urinating on a giant robot who then wants to terminate said creature, and...wow. That's exasperating. You get the point. Eh, might as well add that Mikaela was leered at as a piece of meat for the majority of the film.
[*]Revenge Of The Fallen: Could've been good, they screwed everyone by taking their little hiatus because they weren't getting their dues or some nonsense. (Plenty of people don't get their dues every day, are they ALL striking? No.) Now, I did enjoy the film, but it's ridiculously flawed. And you can see where their ever so gentle touch hit the script.
They have no right to be putting Kruger's head on a pike when they're the ones who started this whole mess.
Why do I get the feeling you're not a fan of Orci and Kurtzman?
Seriously, I'm indifferent to them. I only started noticing their names on the credits after the TF movies, and they're best described as mediocre to decent. I don't love their work, but I don't hate them.
What I do hate are the idiots who came up with ideas like Abraham Lincoln - Vampire Hunter, and Hansel and Gretel - Witch Hunters. That wasn't them, was it?
Autobot032 wrote:Because it's a childish property. Believe me, I have missed out on the fact that this all started with comics and cartoons with the purpose of selling toys. It's a silly, silly thing. I embrace that, actually. Though pissing Bumblebee way crosses the line. It was never THAT silly. Bay's comments and approach prove that there was no respect for the material when he started. I do think he's grown to respect it at least some, now.
That's all true. He's made no secret that he was never a fan of the franchise, and his first thought when Spielberg offered him the script was, "What, that silly toy movie?" At least he's honest.
Let's face facts; TF's were never really his thing, and the fact that he respects the franchise is all that can be asked of him.
Besides, some bad apples in the TF community have given him a bad impression of the fandom, what with the reported death threats and breaking into his house.
Autobot032 wrote:Now that's a fair point. I will give you that one. I don't think Bay's perfect, but he's not the monster he's been painted as. I do think he's socially awkward as we've been lead to believe by past stars working with him. Doesn't make him a bad guy, but it does make him a difficult guy. Which does suck, no doubt. I do think he's making Transformers manly and slick as you put it. Slow going, but it's happening. What if he's actually telling the truth this time? What if it serious and there's no goofiness? I'm not sure it could work, honestly. We're so used to the movieverse as it is now, you make such a harsh change like this, all of a sudden and without warning, it might lose it's audience. I do want to see where they take it. We might just be surprised. (Most likely not, I concede, but maybe.)
Frankly, I think his vision of a TF movie was supposed to be dark and serious in the first place. From what he said in the commentaries, Spielberg has "suggested" the idea of a boy and his first car/dog/alien robot to him and Orci/Kurtzman. Now a "suggestion" from someone like Spielberg might as well have been a written demand.
I honestly believe that Bay would have used Lennox and Epps as the stars of the show had Spielberg not interfered. A crack team of soldiers trudging through the desert, fighting alien robots.... Seriously, it just screams Michael Bay! With the soldiers, he's noticeably in his element, and it shows with the sudden disappearance of the goofiness and childish jokes whenever Lennox and Epps are present.
But you do raise a good point in that the goofiness is so ingrained into the TF movies, it almost seems like something's missing when it's gone. Kind of like a wood splinter in you finger that you've gotten used to, and suddenly, you notice it's gone.
That said, the TF movies are such strong crowd pleasers right now that the lack of goofiness matters little. If anything, with Bay finally getting to make a TF movie as he sees fit (i.e. manly, slick and cinematic) we might at last get to enjoy a TF movie like we enjoyed The Rock or Armageddon (at least I did
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Autobot032 wrote:Sadly, the childish humor worked on all people in all walks of life. People can come on here and say they didn't laugh, but that's bull. The theater I went to (I saw multiple showings), all the audiences laughed. A lot. So, what does that say about us, as people? Not much. And the masturbation joke sounds like something Julie White would do. She's kinda nutty. Awesome, but nutty.
I can say with a straight face that most of the juvenile humor failed to make me laugh. What I did laugh at in the first movie were that masturbation joke (guilty as charged), Ironhide's suggestion to "exterminate the parents", the scene with the sheriff, and how the Autobots hid themselves when Sam's dad looked out the window. The one time I did laugh throughout ROTF was at Wheelie challenging Simmons to a throw-down, and calling him a "pubic 'fro head." I thought Bee was pretty funny in DOTM, especially when he said, "Did you eat a lot of paint chips when you were a kid?" during his encounter with John Malkovich.
Strangely, I never found the Twins nor Wheelie annoying at all, but that's another story--
shhh, don't tell anyone, but I actually liked Wheelie in both ROTF and DOTM. The only ones I ever found annoying were the humans and their over-acting.
The first film works because it was both an introduction film, and a film about, well, Robot's in Disguise, & the reveal, in that regard, it was perfect. The reason Revenge' and Dark' failed was due to recycling the theme from the first. That didn't fit for a movie where the robots were introduced. As stated, the focus stayed too much on humans and comedic characters. A new direction & themes were required for the sequels, instead we had a rehash.
] didn't have that much influence on Bayformers, but, other authors have HEAVY influence in a lot of films today these days. Look at Twilight, Hunger Games, & 'Thrones. Even Jackson is giving more attention to Tolkien's son, who in the past had major issues with Peter.
example: Ghostbusters 2. To me, is actually just as good as the first, yet critics dismiss it. However, if you ask many of them; what their favorite scenes from GB are, they will mention many scenes from the sequel, not realizing its FROM GB2! What's even more galling is I to hear critics, who now revisit, rewatch & talk about GB2, they act surprised when because they enjoyed it, GREATLY, yet still dismiss it.
Also, the funny parts are still funny, at times funnier than GB1, & the scary bits are even more effective. They also work well as a pair, with GB2 a perfect follow-up after viewing the first.
I hear ya', & it sucks! Pear pressure today is ridiculous. To many trolls online will say things like, "kill yourself" if you say something like - I like the new Mickey Mouse Cartoon's. Or the console war fanboys attacking each other for stupid crap.
