Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Yea, the flat, 'painted-on' detailing did bother me a bit.

Plus it gave a sorta of rubber-like look to the TF's, including the Vehicons.

shockwaveuk wrote:

BlueFlame wrote:Actually, the animation in BM is leaps and bounds ahead of BW. Maybe you mean you didn't like the style as much?

Nope, the animation was nowhere near BW quality.

It depends what you mean by quality. I personally thought stylistically the amination looked slicker in Machines than anything in Wars, regarless of how less technically acomplished in may have been. Also I found the characters fluidity of movement much better in Machines than than Wars, they looked more 'alive' to me.

Yours AK

I never liked the look of the Maximals, the whole character changes of everyone, but the Vehicons were a great reason to watch, especialy jetstorm, pitty no toy did him justice. I like BM, just not as much as BW.

Insurgent wrote:.....before Youtube removed them all. .....

You're in luck, someone has put them all back up

BW/BM are joint first on my fave list.
I can over look the small problems that BM has in the way of story lines and such, and i think all of the characters personality trait's can be fully explained by the events they had experienced.

Yeah it was a big shock when i saw BM for the first time, but after watching it a few times, i appreciate it for what it was, its not simply a continuation of BW, comparing the two is like comparing apples to oranges, BM is simply evolution, change if you will.
And change is a very natural part of every day life, if nothing changed, then the world would be a boring place.

It was... brave. It pretty much went against the grain, and that worked in some ways and failed miserably in others (I'm looking at you, Rattrap). As to the lack of adevrtising, I admit it would've been fun to see the Dinobots, maybe having them as an ambiguous faction with only somewhat heroic leanings.

That said, Nightscream really should've been hurt more.

One of the reasons that I love Beast MAchines is the seldom seen (relatively speaking) but totally nuts Megatron. Someone else wrote in this thread already that it would be logical for him to hate organics following the Beast Wars, and that's the truth. Despite being a cartoon where good must win, if not for the organic elements of his crew members fouling things up he probably would have been victorious. I'm thinking of Dinobots' transmetal clone in the Nemesis episodes, had he been a through and through machine, he would never have questioned Megatron over matters of honor nor have hesitated in blowing up the proto humans in the valley. Throw in the typical bad guy will to mutiny (like Terrorsaur) and without a doubt Megs would have wanted nothing more than subservient droids. Had Waspinator not been so incompetant and more durable, and army of Waspinators would probably be sufficient becuase at least he always did what he was told.
BM Megatron was also a great anti-Primal, not just in their alliegences but in just over all vision. Primal wants to reignite the organic flame while MEgatron chooses the solitary existance of being the only being on an entire planet, albeit a planet that would be completely under his control.
A lot of the other BM characters were crummy, Nightscream and Rattrap, and Botanica was just tacked on, while guys like Obsidian were under powered in the depth department, main individuals like Primal got good exposition and, by contrast and his overall lack of solid appearances, Megatron. Bm was also a good story, fell short of the 'religious epic' that the producers talk about it being, with a lot of dangling threads at the end and a number of things that go unexplained, but it was pretty good nonetheless.

Yeah! Now that I've managed to watch the whole series (8 years after it was made, but never mind) I can now make an informed decision about this.

There were some things I didn't like, mainly Cybertron originally being organic. Nowhere has this been even hinted at anywhere (yes, I know it's its own show and can do with as it pleases, but it doesn't mean I gotta like it). I also have a problem with Noble/Savage. It just doesn't mesh in my mind how a purely organic being can transform. In that respect, I totaly agree with Megs: organics have no place on Cybertron. Which made me root for him. He also makes a good point about individual minds being the reason for dis-harmony. But turning everyone into mindless drones is a bad move. So I was rooting for Primal in that respect. Which shows it had good plotlines when you want the hero and villain (even though I hate using those terms) each to win, but for different reasons.
I understand why people complain about the changes in characters from the established BW guys, but I also understand why this change took place, and that is one of the things I ike about it. I can even understand Ratrap making the deal with Megs and Rhinox changing his beliefs. He always did have a dark side to him hidden under the surface.

I loved the way BW used tribal/jungle beats for it's background music and this uses techno. A considerable shift that shows the differences well.
Plotwise, it was overall good. The darker nature of the series leant well but there were small things I was unhappy with: mainly Primal's obsessiveness with nature. But you can probably gather why I don't like that (I blame Vector Sigma's sex change for getting this obsession with nature all of a sudden ). But Megatron's plans and the whole 'Spark extracting' leant itself well into a tf show and those were great.

Finally, I thought Optimal Megatron was brilliant and a beautiful twist of irony, with a great chase in the final ep. However, 5 series worth of these 2 fighting ended rather anticlamitc IMO. And Silverbot's robot mode looked like a Chicken Run reject.

P.S. "I LIVE! I LIVE! I... What kind of puny body is this?"

I would of had no problem with beast machines if it had stuck with what Beast wars had established. Sparks can not be without a body for long or they will extinguish, they made the maximals the ugliest things ever(not even transformer like), Rhinox was evil..., Megatron hated his beloved dragon form, they pretty much just screwed up the entire spark concept, no references to the G1, and probly worst of all is cybertron become techno-organic in the end. If they had gone with Transtech, transformers would be going done a very bad path. The only thing I liked at all during it was the final fight between Optimal Megatron and Primal.

Predacon Rampage wrote:I would of had no problem with beast machines if it had stuck with what Beast wars had established. Sparks can not be without a body for long or they will extinguish, they made the maximals the ugliest things ever(not even transformer like), Rhinox was evil..., Megatron hated his beloved dragon form, they pretty much just screwed up the entire spark concept, no references to the G1, and probly worst of all is cybertron become techno-organic in the end. If they had gone with Transtech, transformers would be going done a very bad path. The only thing I liked at all during it was the final fight between Optimal Megatron and Primal.

actualy you are mistaken. beastmachines had very solid refrences to g1

the oracle computer/vector sigma #1

the key to vector sigma was used to attempt to turn earth into metal in g1, and looked exactly like it did in beastmachines.

even though they pronounced it diffrently, the autobot city of iacon is were megatron ambushed primal to steal his oracle download

ratrap called megatron in esscence a unicron wannabe

the whole plasma energy chamber was played off way better then it was when it was intorduced the american headmasters

and all the diffrent layers of pre history that the maximals saw was seen in a few old g1 episodes and in comic history as well.

in short, BM ties into g1 more then BW did, in fact its kinda hard to tie BW into g1, because it tries to amalgamate the comic stories, as well as some toon stories.

Immortal Starscream wrote:

Predacon Rampage wrote:I would of had no problem with beast machines if it had stuck with what Beast wars had established. Sparks can not be without a body for long or they will extinguish, they made the maximals the ugliest things ever(not even transformer like), Rhinox was evil..., Megatron hated his beloved dragon form, they pretty much just screwed up the entire spark concept, no references to the G1, and probly worst of all is cybertron become techno-organic in the end. If they had gone with Transtech, transformers would be going done a very bad path. The only thing I liked at all during it was the final fight between Optimal Megatron and Primal.

actualy you are mistaken. beastmachines had very solid refrences to g1

the oracle computer/vector sigma #1

the key to vector sigma was used to attempt to turn earth into metal in g1, and looked exactly like it did in beastmachines.

even though they pronounced it diffrently, the autobot city of iacon is were megatron ambushed primal to steal his oracle download

ratrap called megatron in esscence a unicron wannabe

the whole plasma energy chamber was played off way better then it was when it was intorduced the american headmasters

and all the diffrent layers of pre history that the maximals saw was seen in a few old g1 episodes and in comic history as well.

in short, BM ties into g1 more then BW did, in fact its kinda hard to tie BW into g1, because it tries to amalgamate the comic stories, as well as some toon stories.

Oh yes, I forgot about vector sigma. They were on cybertron after all, so of coarse alot of the places and items were the same. Cybertron itself is a direct reference to the original, but aside from those eastereggs, it ignored what the comics books had established, and created the organic core thing.What I didn't like is that I wanted them to look more into the original, and more into beast wars and draw from there, they didn't do that, and completly almost changed characters to opposite personailitys, ugly designs, and a spiritual take on it written by a guy who knew little or nothing before, and had him just skim over the characters from Beast wars.

I have to admit to not seeing enough of Beast Machines when it was on due to work hours but I did enjoy it. Originally much preferred it to Beast Wars but I hadn't seen much of either at that stage. Thanks to the box sets, Beast Wars is my all time TF show. I am hoping to get Beast Machines at some stage.

BM has gotten an awful lot of flak but it compares to the Armada trilogy like Shakespeare to a Dennis the Menace comic. Far Far Superior.

Besides messing up Rattrap and Blackarachnia, a part that bugged me was when Optimus Primal was describing the Oracle....

The Super Computer that foresaw the coming of the first Transformers to Cybertron

I have no problem with Cybertron at one time being Organic, for in Dweller in the Depths, the underground caverns and tunnels looked to be made of stone, so I can easily believe the Quintessons built what we see of Cybertron over the surface.

BW was the worst TF series, IMO. I'm scared of most animals, so the show was really bad for me and my phobias.

Mr. Beast wrote:BW was the worst TF series, IMO. I'm scared of most animals, so the show was really bad for me and my phobias.

That's why you hate it?

Emperor Primacron the 1st wrote:

Mr. Beast wrote:BW was the worst TF series, IMO. I'm scared of most animals, so the show was really bad for me and my phobias.

That's why you hate it?

That's awesome