Bumblevivisector wrote:xyl360 wrote:I hate to say it, but I actually like the plastic colors on the KO better. They seem much more vivid (the purple and the green).
Agreed; I like my greens to be GREEN, not chartreuse.
Although...could the original just be yellower because it's suffered photodegredation over the last 26 years? I've seen that happen to more shades of blue than you'd expect: not only the baby blue of Hotspot and Scourge, but even Cobra Commander! Could light green plastics yellow just as easily, but go unnoticed?
Seibertron wrote:KOs of any kind are very bad for the long run of this brand. What you guys have failed to mention is what happens when the KOs are passed off as originals, intentionally or mistakenly. That is unfair to unsuspecting collectors who are looking to obtain one of these figures.
I've owned every Hasbro G1 Transformers figure since 2007 before the KOs confused the market. I'm very lucky that I know for certainty that everything I own is original because the KOs weren't hitting the market yet. I think it is extremely unfortunate that collectors have to deal with this crap and aren't able to enjoy collecting unadulterated the way that I was able to.
It's one thing when you knowingly buy a KO, but when someone sells their collection later down the road and fails to mention that the item was a KO, or when their storage unit goes up for auction because they forgot to make a few payments or, god forbid, they pass away and their loved ones sell their collection, these KOs will inevitably end up being passed off as originals sooner or later.
Rationalizing that KOs are a good thing in any manner is a selfish view and a view that fails to see the big problem in the long run. It could also be argued the same about official reissues, but they're quality items and in many cases the reissues retain the value of the originals or even surpass their value in some cases. There is a big difference between a quality official reissue and an unofficial unlicensed counterfeit product that doesn't have to meet certain quality standards.
We collectors have a huge responsibility to make sure that future generations of Transformers fans get to enjoy quality Transformers products without having every item run the risk of being a faulty or flawed or counterfeit product. Maybe some of you don't care about this and only care about what you can afford or get your hands on. There is a much bigger picture regarding all of this. I hope that those of you who think that counterfeit products belong in this market will take some time to ponder what items like that do to water down this brand and the enjoyment of collectors in the long run.
Zobovor wrote:*snipped the awesome*
Welcome Zob.Autobot032 wrote:Zobovor wrote:*snipped the awesome*
First of all, welcome. I remember you from Alt.Toys.Transformers.
Second, you sir are my current personal hero.
This was a rational and well thought out post.
This, completely this!Autobot032 wrote:I'm tired of people making me feel bad for buying 3rd party, whether it's just an accessory or a full figure (an original design), or a replica copy. It's bad enough to be belittled for my opinion on many things, by many people (such is the nature of the internet), but being told I'm wrong for spending my money how I see fit, something I worked hard for, is just wrong. That's my business. It could be Hasbro's business, but they choose not to act.
I'll buy official whenever possible, I have no problem doing that. I will buy 3rd party if it fills a void or need. Such as the accessory sets coming for Hoist and Trailbreaker. Hasbro should've made those part of the figures as is. 3rd party wouldn't have a market if Hasbro and Takara hadn't created it. Necessity is the mother of invention.
william-james88 wrote:So that would also be the case for Predaking, who is also six members.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:Could people please stop lumping 3rd Party stuff in with KOs and pretend like they're the exact same thing? I'm getting really tiered and sick of that, my FP Insecticons aren't KOs of anything, neither my Protector or City Commander.
Autobot032 wrote:Dead Metal wrote:Could people please stop lumping 3rd Party stuff in with KOs and pretend like they're the exact same thing? I'm getting really tiered and sick of that, my FP Insecticons aren't KOs of anything, neither my Protector or City Commander.
I absolutely agree. I've owned KOs in the past and 3rd party products are definitely not KOs. However, since 3rd party and KO toys are meant to replace the real deal and they're both made by a 3rd party, that's part of the reason they're labeled as such.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Dead Metal wrote:Autobot032 wrote:Dead Metal wrote:Could people please stop lumping 3rd Party stuff in with KOs and pretend like they're the exact same thing? I'm getting really tiered and sick of that, my FP Insecticons aren't KOs of anything, neither my Protector or City Commander.
I absolutely agree. I've owned KOs in the past and 3rd party products are definitely not KOs. However, since 3rd party and KO toys are meant to replace the real deal and they're both made by a 3rd party, that's part of the reason they're labeled as such.
3rd party aren't really meant to replace the real deal, they're meant to fill a hole or to improve upon something. Then of course there are the exceptions like Warbot defender (designed to replace both Classics Springers after Hasbro stated they wouldn't make a real one), the iGear Seekers, but those are KOs anyway, and the recent combiners. But originally the whole thing started to improve Hasbro'S offerings.
KOs are made to fool people into buying them believing they are the real thing, like Asylum movies. Just we're usually smart enough to not be fooled.
Autobot032 wrote:Dead Metal wrote:Autobot032 wrote:Dead Metal wrote:Could people please stop lumping 3rd Party stuff in with KOs and pretend like they're the exact same thing? I'm getting really tiered and sick of that, my FP Insecticons aren't KOs of anything, neither my Protector or City Commander.
I absolutely agree. I've owned KOs in the past and 3rd party products are definitely not KOs. However, since 3rd party and KO toys are meant to replace the real deal and they're both made by a 3rd party, that's part of the reason they're labeled as such.
3rd party aren't really meant to replace the real deal, they're meant to fill a hole or to improve upon something. Then of course there are the exceptions like Warbot defender (designed to replace both Classics Springers after Hasbro stated they wouldn't make a real one), the iGear Seekers, but those are KOs anyway, and the recent combiners. But originally the whole thing started to improve Hasbro'S offerings.
KOs are made to fool people into buying them believing they are the real thing, like Asylum movies. Just we're usually smart enough to not be fooled.
Believe me, I do know the difference.
And I still stand by my statements in my previous post.
Whether it's a KO maker or an actual "3rd partier" such as FansProject, they are neither Hasbro nor Takara, thus they are a 3rd party producer of transforming toys made to cash in on the real deal. And I'd say 3rd party were always meant to replace the real deal. You mentioned Warbot Defender, which is an excellent example, but I offer this: Classics Hot Rod (Rodimus) on his own is not the greatest figure. FP's TFX Protector trailer add on envelopes the figure and changes his look and posability radically. Once he's wrapped up in that trailer in vehicle mode, he's no longer a car. Once he's wrapped up in the armor, he's no longer Hot Rod. He's become something entirely new. While the core robot is hidden amongst all of that, he's still Protector when it's all said and done. Classics Rodimus has been replaced by Protector.
Same with City Commander/D.I.A.Clone Commander and the Classics Optimus mold. And the upcoming MakeToys NOVA Prime. It's going to use parts of the Hasbro mold to create a new base figure that's fully integrated into the trailer, there by replacing the use of a Hasbro item. Hasbro's items were improved upon, but they've become non existent inside some of these 3rd party pieces.
It's like redoing a house, whether it's vinyl siding or whatever. Once you're done, it doesn't look the same and if you add on a piece that wasn't there in the beginning, you've permanently modified it. All that's left of the original house is it's frame. It has effectively become a new house with all the new materials replacing the old.
So, again, I say, 3rd party has really replaced Hasbro.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
Autobot032 wrote:Whether it's a KO maker or an actual "3rd partier" such as FansProject, they are neither Hasbro nor Takara, thus they are a 3rd party producer of transforming toys made to cash in on the real deal.
Banjo-Tron wrote:...well I blame Ryan for sweeping 3rd parties under the carpet, this is why we are destined to have this same debate time and time again every few months.
Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?
Blurrz wrote:10/10
Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
gothsaurus wrote:I wish Hasbro/Takara had been all over this instead.
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