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Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Thu Jul 11, 2013 7:54 pm

Weapon: Atom-Smasher Cannon
My only question - how does one tell the difference between a high quality KO; an illegally sold rejected figure with quality defects; and an officially made figure made specifically for the Chinese market with lower quality standards?

To me it doesn't matter what they are because they are esentially the same thing - They're all garbage that I am not interested in. I want to know as much as I can about them so I can learn how to identify them.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Thu Jul 11, 2013 8:28 pm

Japan Import for China Market Release - Pricing About $80 USD

Wholesale box - Same size as Japan release ,
Order no.: is different. Hand written no: POT13-00041
Image
Carton box numbering for inventory filled/ indicated.

Toy Box is same (its slightly longer than the KO)
Box Art - Sideswipe is glossy
- background is flat
Hologram - same as japan release (hologram sticker changes shade on both the ko and orig japan import for china market. It all depends on the light angle)

Top is KO, bottom is Chinese retail release
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Instruction Sheet - same as japan release
Character Card - Same as japan release
Inner holding tray - taped on all 4 sides

Figure - Correct head, evil eyes
Headlights - have black trims on the edges
Image
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color - Deep red (the one with the coin is original)
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Image


paint job - smooth
joints movement - same as original
car logo - clearly seen
smell - same
Weight - same as original


Illegal/ KO MP12 - Pricing - about $40 USD

Wholesale box - Longer than the original.
Order number - same as the Japanese Release.
Carton box number for inventory - empty

Box Art - Sideswipe is glossy
- background is glossy also (somehow its not showing up in the pics)
Hologram - Lambor Insignia is not centered (The whole gold and rainbow is just light angle)
Instruction sheet - same as original
Character Card - not as sharp as original. The lower part of the letter M in the word masterpiece shows evidences it had been scanned
Image
Inner holding tray : consistently among 6 pieces , taped only on 2 sides
Figure - Tiger Track Head, rectangular eyes
color - a little reddish orange
Image

paint job - some splotches, not smooth, easily chips off.
Car logo - the small bump seems to be painted over, then painted or attempt of printing the logo again.
joints movement - same as original ( not loose at all, ko forum chats is unfounded )
Headlights - no black trimming ( ko forum chats is correct)
smell - same ( ko forum chats is unfounded)
Weight - same as original

Conclusion - the KO MP12 is a completely repainted Tiger tracks. I saw yellow paint on a store sample display where I bought mine. This would account for the head, its orange reddish (red + yellow underneath) color and the poor paint job (putting paint on top of a glossy paint is never a good thing). Evidences that this were produced and marketed by another factory - in my book -0%. So I think we'll see a limited amount of this ko in the market once the repainted tigertracks runs out. Am extremely glad the the Japan import China market release is true.
Last edited by DreadstarCybph on Sat Jul 13, 2013 1:23 am, edited 18 times in total.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby fenrir72 » Fri Jul 12, 2013 12:30 am

Motto: "Power to the strong and the right!"
Weapon: Plasma Cannon
DreadstarCybph wrote:@Stormrider - as it should be.

Just got a text message that both chinese market and KO versions Mp12 are now available in 1 of our local store that sells ko and originals. Despite my taobao purchases, Heading out to get them today.


I'll be uploading the pics later.

Japan Import for China Market Release

Wholesale box - Same as Japan release ,
Order no.: is different.
Carton box numbering for inventory indicated.
Toy Box is same (its slightly longer than the KO)
Box Art - Sideswipe is glossy
- background is flat
Hologram - same as japan release
Instruction Sheet - same as japan release
Character Card - Same as japan release
Figure - Correct head, evil eyes
color - Deep red
paint job - smooth
joints movement - same as original
Headlights - have black trims on the edges
smell - same
Weight - same as original


Illegal/ KO MP12

Wholesale box - Longer than the original.
Order number - same as the Japanese Release.
Carton box number for inventory - empty

Box Art - Sideswipe is glossy
- background is glossy also
Hologram - same as japan release (The whole gold and rainbow is just light angle)
Instruction sheet - same as original
Character Card - not as sharp as original. The lower part of the letter M in the word masterpiece shows evidences it had been scanned
Figure - Tiger Track Head, rectangular eyes
color - a little reddish orange
paint job - easily chips off - which reveals yellow paint under it.
joints movement - same as original
Headlights - none (correct news )
smell - same
Weight - same as original

Conclusion - the KO MP12 is a completely repainted Tiger tracks. This would account for the head, its orange reddish (red + yellow underneath) color and the poor paint job. Evidences that this were produced and marketed by another factory - in my book -0%. Am extremely glad the the Japan import China market release is true.

My Big question is why the chinese fan site like actoys is not reporting the release of mp12 in their retail market. Why did they not pick up the item is a repainted tigertracks?



Waitaminute!

Wasn't the initial point of your "constructive" exchange with Dead Metal was your opinion that this may be a "for China only" TomyTakara release? If I understood correctly, DM said this is a KO and you said this(might/could/maybe) is for China only by Tomy. I even acknowledged that back in the early 90s, this did happened for several G1 figures.

So now what is it then? Its confirmed as Dead Metal mentioned and GetRightRobot that this is a KO. After nearly 5 pages of back and forth.............its a KO? :HEADHURTS: What was the point................
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Fri Jul 12, 2013 4:39 am

The point is, there is a retail release of an official mp12 japan import in the china mainland. This would account for the sudden restocks in many online and hobby stores that have contacts within mainland China. note: Mainland China is not Hong Kong.

The point is, there is also an unlicensed figure of mp 12 out in china as well at the same time. If I'm correct, the ko mp12 will dry up once the extra repainted tigertracks are sold off. Unless ofcourse...they did something with the rerun or g2 sideswipe.

The point is, majority of the collectors outside main land china think - there is no official retail market release of mp12 in mainland China recently, because if there was, the fan sites would have picked it up. Well, if the fans didn't , the stores picked it up obviously.

Our exchange of knowledge with Death Metal did spur me to learn about proxy servers. During the course of the debate, I uncovered that Takara Tomy company profile and company financial stuff. This in turn gave me an understanding that would explain the existence of TakaraTomy stuff coming out from within mainland China. Death Metal and me have different beliefs or idea on how TakaraTomy will go about in expanding their target market in china to expand their yearly sales from $7billion to $30billion world wide.


I know I will be ridiculed for this. But, there seems to be no info or lack of news about either Hasbro or Takara Tomy items being release on the regular retail market in mainland china. It never bothered me until Death Metal raised it up via, "we would have known by now from Chinese fan site." Could it be, 6 months after the Japanese and HK release, Hasbro.Cn or TakaraTomy release their china retail items, so stuffs in the market are kinda old news to the die hard fans (who join forums) (since most of them will have the HK release or the japanese release by then) and the stuff are considered stale and are not news worthy mentioning anymore?
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Fri Jul 12, 2013 6:06 am

Weapon: Atom-Smasher Cannon
The Lamborghini symbol on the hologram stickers appear to be positioned differently. Looks like the KO has it in the center, and the original has it just to the left of the center (unless I have the two figures mixed up). Can anyone confirm if their Original MP Sideswipe has a hologram sticker matching the KO sticker?
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Fri Jul 12, 2013 8:22 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
DreadstarCybph wrote:I know I will be ridiculed for this. But, there seems to be no info or lack of news about either Hasbro or Takara Tomy items being release on the regular retail market in mainland china. It never bothered me until Death Metal raised it up. Could it be, 6 months after the Japanese and HK release, Hasbro.Cn or TakaraTomy release their china retail items, so stuffs in the market are kinda old news to the die hard fans (who join forums) (since most of them will have the HK release or the japanese release by then) and the stuff are considered stale and are not news worthy mentioning anymore?


I wonder how many visitors from China we actually get. You do have to bear in mind that this site is focused on the US, with Japan, Hong Kong, Singapore, Australia and the UK filling out the ranks and used as gauges for release dates.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 8:57 am

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
The hologram sticker thing isn't a very accurate indicator. My Lambor, which is from the very first batch, has the "evil eyes", a well-printed card and black trimming/panel-lines on the headlights, and the box is also matte, with only Lambor appearing glossy.

The logo on the sticker, on the other hand, is perfectly centered.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Sun Jul 14, 2013 6:35 pm

Weapon: Atom-Smasher Cannon
I am so confused and losing interest quickly.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Sun Jul 14, 2013 7:00 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
Just throwing a theory around here.

Maybe the Tigertracks figs aren't selling nearly as well as they thought, and TT decided to re-purpose them as Lambor re-releases?

That said, it doesn't really explain why this batch came out so much earlier than the designated December release date.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Mon Jul 15, 2013 7:45 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:Maybe the Tigertracks figs aren't selling nearly as well as they thought, and TT decided to re-purpose them as Lambor re-releases?


No, no and no. That's the same type of thinking behind "repackaged" figures actually being repackaged unsold figures, while they're actually reissues in different packaging.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Mon Jul 15, 2013 5:59 pm

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
SKYWARPED_128 wrote:Maybe the Tigertracks figs aren't selling nearly as well as they thought, and TT decided to re-purpose them as Lambor re-releases?


No, no and no. That's the same type of thinking behind "repackaged" figures actually being repackaged unsold figures, while they're actually reissues in different packaging.


Thing is, someone earlier mentioned that there's yellow paint or plastic underneath the red paint. Lambor is made of black and red plastic with red paint over some of the black areas--there's absolutely no yellow plastic on Lambor.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Tue Jul 16, 2013 4:51 am

Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.

And also, the china release mp 12 is no special run. Most likely , it was percentage set aside from the initial run . Why the late release I don't know (could be a trade dispute or the senkaku island dispute) and why there is no report on the well known fan site, I dunno either.

Like I said before - meaning of words usually gets loss in translation especially if you''re not a local to that language of that area and, if you are using an online translator.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Tue Jul 16, 2013 5:47 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
DreadstarCybph wrote:Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.


If that really is the case, TakaraTomy could arguably sue the factory for breach of contract through overproduction and not destroying the excess.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby njb902 » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:11 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
DreadstarCybph wrote:Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.


If that really is the case, TakaraTomy could arguably sue the factory for breach of contract through overproduction and not destroying the excess.


You really think a Chinese court would help a Japanese company?
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Arctorro » Tue Jul 16, 2013 7:23 am

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njb902 wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
DreadstarCybph wrote:Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.


If that really is the case, TakaraTomy could arguably sue the factory for breach of contract through overproduction and not destroying the excess.


You really think a Chinese court would help a Japanese company?
Have you seen the cars Chinese companies are producing these days? They are blatant ripoffs of Japanese and European cars and there is nothing that can be done about it because the government is backing the companies :BANG_HEAD:

If these are illegal overproduction releases then there is nothing Takara can do about it :-(
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby DreadstarCybph » Tue Jul 16, 2013 8:01 am

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
If that really is the case, TakaraTomy could arguably sue the factory for breach of contract through overproduction and not destroying the excess.


They can't sue the factory cause Takara TOMY first have to find this dummy company , which more or less will fold up once the stocks are sold out.The factory owner will just say he's innocent, it was ko'ed by somebody else and give them a blank stare.

And the thing about chinese ripping off car designs and other stuffs is all true. Heck, they don't fear nobody. Wasn't it recently their government managed to hack and steal US military aircraft designs? Bandai China also sued TT Homgli for ripping off their gundam model kits. What did TT Hongli do? Just renamed their company. >_<
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby SKYWARPED_128 » Wed Jul 17, 2013 1:19 am

Weapon: Null-Ray Rifle
DreadstarCybph wrote:
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
If that really is the case, TakaraTomy could arguably sue the factory for breach of contract through overproduction and not destroying the excess.


They can't sue the factory cause Takara TOMY first have to find this dummy company , which more or less will fold up once the stocks are sold out.The factory owner will just say he's innocent, it was ko'ed by somebody else and give them a blank stare.

And the thing about chinese ripping off car designs and other stuffs is all true. Heck, they don't fear nobody. Wasn't it recently their government managed to hack and steal US military aircraft designs? Bandai China also sued TT Homgli for ripping off their gundam model kits. What did TT Hongli do? Just renamed their company. >_<


Pretty much. China's basically a black hole when it comes to intellectual property, and it's no secret that the Chinese government takes care of its own.

DreadstarCybph wrote:Skywarped_128 - I don't think tigertrack was not selling well. More likely the tiger track run was over produced for the limited no. of pcs. required by TakaraTomy. Let's say - Takara ordered 2,000 pcs and the factory actually produced 3,000 pcs under the noses of the Takara reps at the plant. They present Takara the 2000 pcs, takara reps retrieve the moulding plates, returns to HQ to store them in their vaults. Factory boss barks "okay boys and girls, repaint them yellows as reds" Items gets re painted and shipped to a dummy company that sells the stuff.

And also, the china release mp 12 is no special run. Most likely , it was percentage set aside from the initial run . Why the late release I don't know (could be a trade dispute or the senkaku island dispute) and why there is no report on the well known fan site, I dunno either.

Like I said before - meaning of words usually gets loss in translation especially if you''re not a local to that language of that area and, if you are using an online translator.


I'm no expert on Chinese factories, but schemes like these are not unheard of. I wouldn't be surprised if that was indeed what took place.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Sun Jul 21, 2013 2:54 pm

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Takara really should pack up and move productions to Vietnam or Thailand as they claimed they would do 2 years ago. I wouldn't mind paying $5 more a figure if it meant better quality figures and avoiding these crappy KO games.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Mon Jul 22, 2013 5:42 am

Motto: "The only good is knowledge, and the only evil is ignorance."
Stormrider wrote:Takara really should pack up and move productions to Vietnam or Thailand as they claimed they would do 2 years ago. I wouldn't mind paying $5 more a figure if it meant better quality figures and avoiding these crappy KO games.


For some lines they actually have. Production seems to be split now.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Stormrider » Mon Jul 22, 2013 7:10 pm

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JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:
Stormrider wrote:Takara really should pack up and move productions to Vietnam or Thailand as they claimed they would do 2 years ago. I wouldn't mind paying $5 more a figure if it meant better quality figures and avoiding these crappy KO games.


For some lines they actually have. Production seems to be split now.


Good news. Thanks
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby ZenPrime » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:24 pm

Sorry to drag this thread back from the depths... Recently BBTS just restocked MP-12 Sideswipe stating it's a second run of the figure and that all the QC issue have been resolved with this second run. How come the Japanese online retailers have not listed any stock for the second run of this figure? Is there any chance that BBTS' "second run" stock are KO figures? I mean it happened with Encore Metroplex....
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Cyberpath » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:45 pm

ZenPrime wrote:Sorry to drag this thread back from the depths... Recently BBTS just restocked MP-12 Sideswipe stating it's a second run of the figure and that all the QC issue have been resolved with this second run. How come the Japanese online retailers have not listed any stock for the second run of this figure? Is there any chance that BBTS' "second run" stock are KO figures? I mean it happened with Encore Metroplex....

I have been wondering the same thing. So last month I asked one of the Japanese online stores, and here's their reply:

Thank you for writing.

We too are aware of the reissue of MP-12, but we have not been officially informed by TakaraTomy, so we cannot start accepting order for it.

We will start accepting pre-order for it as soon as we receive the news from the manufacturer.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby ZenPrime » Tue Mar 25, 2014 2:49 pm

Cyberpath wrote:
ZenPrime wrote:Sorry to drag this thread back from the depths... Recently BBTS just restocked MP-12 Sideswipe stating it's a second run of the figure and that all the QC issue have been resolved with this second run. How come the Japanese online retailers have not listed any stock for the second run of this figure? Is there any chance that BBTS' "second run" stock are KO figures? I mean it happened with Encore Metroplex....

I have been wondering the same thing. So last month I asked one of the Japanese online stores, and here's their reply:

Thank you for writing.

We too are aware of the reissue of MP-12, but we have not been officially informed by TakaraTomy, so we cannot start accepting order for it.

We will start accepting pre-order for it as soon as we receive the news from the manufacturer.


It's no longer on preorder status on BBTS it's in stock. So that makes me wonder where BBTS and TFSource are getting their second run stock from when the Japanese retailers haven't even confirmed a second run....
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby Cyberpath » Wed Mar 26, 2014 2:02 am

ZenPrime wrote:It's no longer on preorder status on BBTS it's in stock. So that makes me wonder where BBTS and TFSource are getting their second run stock from when the Japanese retailers haven't even confirmed a second run....


I wish I knew. Something feels off. I emailed two more Japanese stores last night and got similar responses.
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Re: Buyer Beware! KO Masterpiece 12 Lambor/Sideswipe!

Postby mooncake623 » Wed Mar 26, 2014 7:31 am

Weapon: Concussion Rifle
Woah maybe they order from Asia instead of Japan? Japan never gets any of the Asian reissues (Grimlock, MP10 (with flight stand), I'm going to say Starscream too?)
would be ridiculous if BBTS and TFsource is ordering KOs for people.
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