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Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Mar 23, 2015 1:53 am

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About big o, it was more of the fact that everything was a computer simulation. It ruined it for me as it made a lot of things pointless, was little better then just saying things had been a dream.

Still Big O waits for the day renewed interest could revive the series and lead to great things.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Bradimus » Mon Mar 23, 2015 9:38 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:About big o, it was more of the fact that everything was a computer simulation. It ruined it for me as it made a lot of things pointless, was little better then just saying things had been a dream.

Still Big O waits for the day renewed interest could revive the series and lead to great things.


But it's a simulation based on the real world. So I want to know: Why?

I really hope enough people take notice of the series, or Funimation airs it to see what interest is still out there for it. Adult Swim occasionally shows the second 13 episodes it co-produced (I don't know why they refuse to show the entire series), but it's buried deep in the night/early morning and only a cult following will care to watch it on TV at that time if they don't already have the series.

I really want to know why.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Shadowman » Mon Mar 23, 2015 2:50 pm

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Bradimus wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:About big o, it was more of the fact that everything was a computer simulation. It ruined it for me as it made a lot of things pointless, was little better then just saying things had been a dream.

Still Big O waits for the day renewed interest could revive the series and lead to great things.


But it's a simulation based on the real world. So I want to know: Why?

I really hope enough people take notice of the series, or Funimation airs it to see what interest is still out there for it. Adult Swim occasionally shows the second 13 episodes it co-produced (I don't know why they refuse to show the entire series), but it's buried deep in the night/early morning and only a cult following will care to watch it on TV at that time if they don't already have the series.

I really want to know why.


Occasionally? They've been running it nearly constantly for years. And it's suffered from low ratings and low DVD sales in that time, hence why Sunrise isn't prepared to revive it twice.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Bradimus » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:15 pm

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Shadowman wrote:Occasionally? They've been running it nearly constantly for years. And it's suffered from low ratings and low DVD sales in that time, hence why Sunrise isn't prepared to revive it twice.


I think the low DVD sales can be attributed to what they have been asking for each 13 episode season. How does charging the same price for 13 episodes of The Big O as 26 episodes of Cowboy Bebop make sense? Or the same price as one 26 episode season of Ghost in the Shell: SAC. Or GitS:SAC 2nd Gig. Or every other 26 episode series available at the time.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons it can be so difficult to get Anime in the States is because Japan is baffled that we are not willing to pay the high prices forked over by the home viewers. The market in the US is here, but the companies (Sunrise, etc.) have to be willing to price accordingly or fans are not going to fork over the money.

I'd love to own The Big O and The Big O II but I was never able to find them at a price I could afford. On the other hand I have all of Cowboy Bebop, GitS:SAC, Samurai Shamploo and Trigun. I also have the first three volumes of Batman:TAS and the first Robotech: The Macross Saga boxed release.

Price matters. Price out of the market place and even hardcore fans like myself will wait and hope for a bargain down the road, even if that means never being able to collect the show. If they put all 26 episodes together in a single release for the same price as the other 26 episode series I own I'll race to add it to my collection.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:27 pm

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Didn't they do an budget set release for Big One in the states? We in the UK only got the first 13 episodeso but they came out brand new for £15
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Bradimus » Mon Mar 23, 2015 3:37 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:Didn't they do an budget set release for Big One in the states? We in the UK only got the first 13 episodeso but they came out brand new for £15


I never saw it on Amazon, only the two separate releases of The Big O and The Big O II. I don't know if they ever gave region one a chance to show our support.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Cyberstrike » Mon Mar 30, 2015 8:30 am

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Bradimus wrote:
Shadowman wrote:Occasionally? They've been running it nearly constantly for years. And it's suffered from low ratings and low DVD sales in that time, hence why Sunrise isn't prepared to revive it twice.


I think the low DVD sales can be attributed to what they have been asking for each 13 episode season. How does charging the same price for 13 episodes of The Big O as 26 episodes of Cowboy Bebop make sense? Or the same price as one 26 episode season of Ghost in the Shell: SAC. Or GitS:SAC 2nd Gig. Or every other 26 episode series available at the time.

It's my understanding that one of the reasons it can be so difficult to get Anime in the States is because Japan is baffled that we are not willing to pay the high prices forked over by the home viewers. The market in the US is here, but the companies (Sunrise, etc.) have to be willing to price accordingly or fans are not going to fork over the money.

I'd love to own The Big O and The Big O II but I was never able to find them at a price I could afford. On the other hand I have all of Cowboy Bebop, GitS:SAC, Samurai Shamploo and Trigun. I also have the first three volumes of Batman:TAS and the first Robotech: The Macross Saga boxed release.

Price matters. Price out of the market place and even hardcore fans like myself will wait and hope for a bargain down the road, even if that means never being able to collect the show. If they put all 26 episodes together in a single release for the same price as the other 26 episode series I own I'll race to add it to my collection.


It also hasn't helped that a lot of major companies that could dubbing, subtitles, promotion and distubution for anime have went out of business.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Bradimus » Mon Mar 30, 2015 1:55 pm

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My understanding is Funimation is the only distributor still doing business in the States. But a lot of the old DVD collections have gone out of production. I think they are replacing them with Blu-ray. Shortly after I ordered the entire GitS:SAC collection a couple summers ago the prices went up and now I think it's only available on the resale market on Amazon. I'd check but I've been having trouble loading Amazon lately.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:15 am

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There is Sentai and I think one other in the states other then Funi but it's noting compared to the heyday of the anime bubble
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Bradimus » Tue Mar 31, 2015 1:26 pm

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It really is a shame that the suits in Japan are dismissing region one (I don't know what other regions everyone is in) because we won't support their product at the home market price. There are so many anime fans who want to own their favorite series but are only willing to pay our market value. That's lost profit. Makes no sense to me. :BANG_HEAD:
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby MemphisR56 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 5:35 am

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Just a few points I wanted to talk about since I read this thread,

Newtypes: As far as I can tell, the original authorial intent with newtypes was that with the human brain having to adapt to now thinking on the 3D plain and from multiple orientations from making the jump to flat earth, to floating around in space in zero gravity, underwent some minor changes to cope.

The people that developed these changes are newtypes. Their ability is based around being able to understand the emotions and intent of people without speaking to them. Sort of a psychic power of empathy. This is why they're able to 'flash' and predict incoming attacks, because they can feel the killing intent of the people launching attacks.

It has particularly adverse affects on Amuro and Char, because they were both able to sense the purity of intent within Lalah. They adored how true she was to her goals, and how she understood that she had to fight to make them a reality. They both wished to become more like her, and follow her example (hence Char's "lalah could have been a mother to me!" line. it's meant as more allegorical for someone who raises him from the mistakes of his youth to be a man of virtue).

This went Pear shaped when she died, as Amuro and Char could both feel her pain and emotions as she was killed when the Elmeth was shot down. They literally felt her passing on into the afterlife.

Later entries to the series suffered from misinterpretations, and newtype abilities because little more than psychic powers akin to the force. Particularly later on in zeta, where Haman Karn is able to create giant pink ghosts, and Scirrocco tries to pull Kamille into the next life with him when he dies.


SEED Destiny's clipshows: The script writer for SEED Destiny was the director's wife. She suffered from a really poor work ethic, and would repeatedly hand in scripts at the last minute, late, or even not at all. Because of her husband's position she was never fired from the show for her incompetence. It's also generally accepted that she would feud with the voice actors from the show from time to time.

As a result of late scripts, the animation team had to rush the episodes out the door, without being able to patch plotholes, or complete propper keyframe animation, which resulted in the amount of stock footage padding out the show, and the terrible about of poor quality animation.

The clip shows came into being where she'd not turned in her scripts at all, the director had no other choice but to create a clipshow to fill in his timeslot where he didn't actually have an episode to air that week.

Apparently plot developments like Cagalli being reduced from a frankly awesome strong female pilot to a mewling damsel in distress in a wedding dress, and Kira hijacking the role of Lead character from Shinn were partly to do with her feuding with the voice actors. Definitely so in Cagalli's case. They hated eachother. Fukuda's wife decided she would punish her by running her breakout character into the ground.

This was also supposedly in part to sell merchandise. Shinn was not as popular as Kira, so they handed over the reins to him in the hopes of selling more model kits. That's pretty much it.

It's not just destiny that suffered from this kind of thing, SEED was also plagued with it. Dearka switching sides? Sales of the buster gundam were waning, so they wanted to manufacture an increase in his popularity to bring the sales back up, and this was just one example.


Legally acquiring anime these days:
The best places to look are The Crunchyroll, Animax and Funimation websites. Netflix usually is pretty good about putting up full shows, but they seem to be 3 seasons behind on most things, at least on british netflix, but as I understand it, the US version of the app has a much larger library.

Anime DVDs just never sold. They were absurdly overpriced compared to western DVD releases, and because media discs (CDs etc) in japan are usually much more highly priced, they saw the prices we percieve to be huge to be absolute daylight robbery to them. We didn't buy them, they weren't prepared to put the prices any lower. That's pretty much why the anime bubble burst over here. The publishers simply could not front the capital to make threadbare profits, when we were all fansubbing and stealing their shows for free.

Compared to how it used to be (paying £20-30 for 5 episodes of a show per disc) paying a few quid/dollars for a subscription to a streaming service like animax or cruchyroll is a god send. In my opinion, streaming it through subscription TV on demand services is the only way to save the industry.

The Big O ending: Jesus, why. It was so awful.

As I understand it, Sunrise didn't want to do a second season. WB's funded a second season for simulcast in the states. They thought that the westerners riding in on their white horses providing the capital for the show would keep it afloat for a while (probably based on the success of G Gundam, Gundam Wing, Outlaw Star and Cowboy Bebop) so when it came to the end of the season, and it turned out that airing a second season of a show some 2 years after the end of the first means that the fanbase have buggered off onto other things, the show wasn't the money spinner they hoped for. They promptly cancelled a third season to stop from bleeding money, and they had to write a quick ending with little time to prepare. Hence "what if it was all a dreaaaam!". I honestly think the ending that we got was not the original intended payoff of the Tomatoes plot thread.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Shadowman » Mon Jun 01, 2015 7:57 am

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MemphisR56 wrote:Later entries to the series suffered from misinterpretations, and newtype abilities because little more than psychic powers akin to the force. Particularly later on in zeta, where Haman Karn is able to create giant pink ghosts, and Scirrocco tries to pull Kamille into the next life with him when he dies.


I would assume that was less Scirocco trying to pull Kamille into the afterlife with him, and more as projecting the sensation of dying onto Kamille. And possibly not fully understanding what it is he's doing.

That said, Haman and Judau doing a good ol' fashion Super Saiyan display, yeah, silly.

MemphisR56 wrote:WB's funded a second season for simulcast in the states.


Adult Swim, not WB.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby MemphisR56 » Mon Jun 01, 2015 8:08 am

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Shadowman wrote:
MemphisR56 wrote:Later entries to the series suffered from misinterpretations, and newtype abilities because little more than psychic powers akin to the force. Particularly later on in zeta, where Haman Karn is able to create giant pink ghosts, and Scirrocco tries to pull Kamille into the next life with him when he dies.


I would assume that was less Scirocco trying to pull Kamille into the afterlife with him, and more as projecting the sensation of dying onto Kamille. And possibly not fully understanding what it is he's doing.

That said, Haman and Judau doing a good ol' fashion Super Saiyan display, yeah, silly.

MemphisR56 wrote:WB's funded a second season for simulcast in the states.


Adult Swim, not WB.


My mistake, I'd read somewhere that the staff invovled in greenlighting Batman TAS had a hand in funding Big O 2.
They'd been attracted to it after seeing how much homage there was in there. It was probably referring to people at cartoon network.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Bradimus » Wed Jun 03, 2015 4:13 pm

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MemphisR56,

Thanks for the info. You shed a lot of light on some things I was unaware of, like the true intent of Newtypes and the behind the scenes production issues with Seed and Destiny. Big-O failing due to the audience losing interest between seasons does not surprise me, though admittedly I had only just watched season one when Adult Swim began advertising the upcoming season two. Whether the ending was intended or not, I still think there is room to continue the story and work within what was done to ensure the "Tomato" concept is properly addressed, though I am far more interested in delving deeper into what Paradigm city truly is. With that in mind, the reset doesn't bother me at all since it's at least the second city reset (the last turning Roger from a nobody into the Negotiator).

It is disappointing all these shows suffered for various reasons, many highlighted by your post.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby MemphisR56 » Thu Jun 04, 2015 1:50 am

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I agree, it is dissapointing.

To me it's all indicative that Bandai/Sunrise's intentions are all just to shift toys and merchandise and they've long since given up on good storytelling.

The AGE and BF serials were both really very merchandise-pushing heavy, and I think the quality of the mythos really suffered. It's in part why I lose interest in Gundam in the last few years.

Also, I just noticed your Avatar

>00 Raiser
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>All your Stats are 7's
>Exia has 7 swords

This has to be intentional.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Bradimus » Thu Jun 04, 2015 11:28 am

Motto: "If I have the power to make a difference, I should put it to good use."
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MemphisR56 wrote:I agree, it is dissapointing.

To me it's all indicative that Bandai/Sunrise's intentions are all just to shift toys and merchandise and they've long since given up on good storytelling.

The AGE and BF serials were both really very merchandise-pushing heavy, and I think the quality of the mythos really suffered. It's in part why I lose interest in Gundam in the last few years.

Also, I just noticed your Avatar

>00 Raiser
>Upgraded Exia
>All your Stats are 7's
>Exia has 7 swords

This has to be intentional.


Completely coincidental, but I like you're story better! :BOWDOWN:

I used to have a Strike Freedom avatar but when I got slammed by that loser on YouTube I decided to change it to 00 Gundam to make him look like a fool every time someone reads his comments blasting me for using a Seed/Destiny avatar. Plus I love 00 Gundam. As for the 7's, way back when I registered at Seibertrion.com I thought 7 was a good number stats wise to go with. Not to high, not low.

It's truly a shame the Gundam franchise got away from good story telling first to selling models first. The models will sell anyway. Though back in Seed I did like Dearka switching sides. He always had a strong character and it made sense when finding himself in a situation where innocent people were in danger that he would risk everything to help a girl he fancied. That completed his story arc nicely, leaving only Izak's story to run it's course, which also played well with his best friend now on the other side. That added an element to the final battle. And argument could be made that it was lazy to basically do the same thing to those characters that was already being done with the main characters of Kira and Athrun, but in a war like this one I would think many people would find themselves in similar situations. Perhaps the better ending for the characters would have been for them to have to kill one another instead of Izak coming around, but I digress.

I think 00 Gundam did a great job telling a clean story and allowing the models to sell themselves. I wish the story would have been longer, but splitting it into two 25 episode seasons allowed the story to move at a good paces, with the first season setting things up at a slower pace and the second season blowing us away with the quicker pace and all of the elements coming together seamlessly. My only disappointment came with the movie, which had too much going on to just be a movie. I wish they would go back and lengthen the story as an OVA miniseries, adding about an hour or so to help with the pacing. Overall, I thought the story was sound and the ending was satisfying, if not a little tear-jerking. I wish we could have seen what happened to everyone else, though. After being invested in those extremely well developed characters I wanted a longer goodbye.

I have not see AGE yet, but I heard the third act suffered after a good build up from acts one and two. And I still have to start watching the new series while it's being streamed on YouTube. I'm still debating whether to watch ZZ, and I have to find a way to watch Gundam X. That last one is the one I'm most interested in seeing as I purchased a bunch of models from it at cons when I was a teen.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby MemphisR56 » Sat Jun 06, 2015 7:54 am

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ZZ can be a jarring change of pace at first, so go in with an open mind. I found the first 10-15 episodes pretty difficult to swallow (most zz fans recommend skipping episode 15 all together) but once the plot got moving it was solid awesome. If you found that zeta was too dark and slow paced, you'll probably like the back half of ZZ. Plus, a lot of things introduced in ZZ are referenced in the Unicorn OVA. In my opinion, the people who say to just skip ZZ are foolish. It's a solid entry into the series.

I'm more of a staunch UC Gundam man myself, but I've watch quite a few of the A.U. Serials. I've seen Wing, G, X, 00, SEED Turn A and AGE, but not G Reco, or BF. Of all of them I'd say I enjoyed 00 the most, but I'll always have a special fondness of G and Wing.

As for my favourite UC, it's definitely a tie between 08th and Zeta.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Bradimus » Sat Jun 06, 2015 9:43 pm

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I like Wing but I feel like the story sort of stalls around the 2/3 mark before coming together nicely for the finally. Maybe I need to watch it again as I haven't seen it in some years.

G Gundam is bonkers fun. I love the crazy designs and it has a great story. Lots of sick, twisted stuff going on, but it all makes sense in the end. One of the things I love about 00 Gundam is that series also has fun with mobile suit designs, but in a more realistic sort of way.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Jun 15, 2015 7:04 am

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I would say that the story stalls around the half way point, when the main cast head off into space. I love wing but I feel that the 2nd half of the series suffers, especially the last few episodes where references abound to Chars Counterattack.

Endless Waltz also bugs me to an extent. There wasn't much evidence that it was even needed.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby MemphisR56 » Tue Jun 16, 2015 2:30 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:There wasn't much evidence that it was even needed.


I fully agree, but we got some very pretty model kits as a result.

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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Jun 16, 2015 3:38 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
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MemphisR56 wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:There wasn't much evidence that it was even needed.


I fully agree, but we got some very pretty model kits as a result.

>Heavy Arms Kai
>Sandrock Kai
>Nataku
>SERPENT CUSTOM

Can't help but notice you didn't include wing zero custom in that list ;) :P

Heavy arms Kai is still my definition of overkill. I'm going to start seeing if I can track Turn A Box sets down for a decent price
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby MemphisR56 » Wed Jun 17, 2015 3:07 am

Motto: "An inconvenience is just an adventure wrongly viewed!"
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ZeroWolf wrote:
MemphisR56 wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:There wasn't much evidence that it was even needed.


I fully agree, but we got some very pretty model kits as a result.

>Heavy Arms Kai
>Sandrock Kai
>Nataku
>SERPENT CUSTOM

Can't help but notice you didn't include wing zero custom in that list ;) :P

Heavy arms Kai is still my definition of overkill. I'm going to start seeing if I can track Turn A Box sets down for a decent price


The Angel wings were just overkill for me. I think the colour choices are pretty bland too.

I do actually own the MG Wing Gundam Ver.Ka. though.
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Jun 17, 2015 4:07 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I love the ver. Ka edition of wing gundam, it was a kit I wanted. Sadly was out of stock when I wanted it...so I settled for crossbone gundam ver. Ka :D
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby LegendaryAntiHero » Mon Aug 31, 2015 6:19 pm

MemphisR56 wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:
MemphisR56 wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:There wasn't much evidence that it was even needed.


I fully agree, but we got some very pretty model kits as a result.

>Heavy Arms Kai
>Sandrock Kai
>Nataku
>SERPENT CUSTOM

Can't help but notice you didn't include wing zero custom in that list ;) :P

Heavy arms Kai is still my definition of overkill. I'm going to start seeing if I can track Turn A Box sets down for a decent price


The Angel wings were just overkill for me. I think the colour choices are pretty bland too.

I do actually own the MG Wing Gundam Ver.Ka. though.

I didn't like the feathers at first, mainly because it didn't transform anymore. However, I got around to liking the 4 wings and the added blue colors after I got one in hand
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Re: Calling all Gundam fans - Am I crazy?

Postby Samsonator » Mon Aug 31, 2015 10:33 pm

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I actually just finished rewatching Wing. Enjoyed it more this time through, I think. Presumably because my brain could comprehend the subtleties of the various military plots this time, instead of just glossing over the talking to get to the robot fights like I did in my youth. It did make me wish that they'd go ahead and start making new HG kits for the series, specifically some of the mass-production grunt suits. I wanna build an army of Leos!

Now I'm halfway through rewatching 00, and it's probably still my favourite of the non UC timelines.
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