Energon and Cybertron link?

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Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby VirusCarnage » Tue Feb 12, 2013 7:26 am

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I went back and watched the Unicron Trilogy and I don't really understand the link between Energon and Cybertron, could someone clear this up for me?
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby JelZe GoldRabbit » Tue Feb 12, 2013 10:45 am

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viruscarnage wrote:I went back and watched the Unicron Trilogy and I don't really understand the link between Energon and Cybertron, could someone clear this up for me?


Funny you should ask, as it's extremely complicated. Here's the long and short of it.

1) The cartoon was originally produced in Japan as Galaxy Force. Unlike in the US, Japan treated it as a separate series, not as a sequel to Energon (TakaraTomy would later retcon that, but that's a different can of worms). So there originally was no link, which forced the English dubbing to be... haphazard.

2) The English localisation had to invent several explanations to fill all those plot holes. Here's a small list of differences:

a) that black hole is called the Unicron Singularity, created when the sun at the end of Energon collapsed on itself. That was lost in the Japanese version, where it was nothing more than a generic plot device.

b) As it was a completely new series in Japan, the principle of having to hide from humanity was reset. The dub, treating Cybertron like a sequel, added that the reality-warping effect of the black hole made everyone forget stuff: Autobots forgot about Earth, humans forgot Transformers ever existed. Too convenient for my tastes, but eh.

c) Override is a dude in the Japanese version. Ok, this is more Cartoon Network's doing and not a significant difference, moving on...

As it currently stands, Energon and Cybertron are connected as intended. Blame it on the Unicron Singularity for convenience sake, that things messed up a lot of things.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Feb 14, 2013 11:07 pm

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^ A lot of those explanations you mentioned mostly came from the Fun Pub Cybertron comics instead of the English cartoon dub.

The dub mostly invented the black hole being caused by the destruction of Unicron, calling Megatron's new look the "Armor of Unicron", and making the characters of Cybertron who resembled old characters be those old characters.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby o.supreme » Fri Apr 28, 2017 8:33 am

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Sabrblade wrote:In all honesty, Cybertron was supposed to be another sequel from its conception. GONZO either missed that memo or chose to ignore it when they made the cartoon into being a standalone series. It wasn't America tampering with a Japanese work so much as it was Japan mucking up what America had originally planned for the series in the first place. After all, it was Aaron Archer who drew up and outlined the earliest ideas for it on the so-called "Napkin of Revelation".

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Fair enough, but even when you watch Cybertron from the beginning there are so many things that don't match up with how Energon ended, and so many questions left unanswered, its what actually makes Cybertron nearly unwatchable to me, unless I consider it disconnected, I know many think it is the best animated/written of the *unicron trilogy*, but is disjointedness' alone makes it a very tough watch for me.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:13 pm

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o.supreme wrote:Fair enough, but even when you watch Cybertron from the beginning there are so many things that don't match up with how Energon ended, and so many questions left unanswered, its what actually makes Cybertron nearly unwatchable to me, unless I consider it disconnected, I know many think it is the best animated/written of the *unicron trilogy*, but is disjointedness' alone makes it a very tough watch for me.
Oh, don't get me wrong. I totally get that a lot of things still don't add up in spite of what efforts the dubbers and Fun Pub attempted to mend the break that GONZO caused. But, to be frank, once I better understood what happened behind-the-scenes and took into account both the "memory problems" explanation Fun Pub cooked up and the "ten years later" setting that Hasbro declared in the original Ask Vector Prime, it made watching the show much easier for me, barring the occasional hiccup that would still pop up from time to time, but which was inevitable given GONZO's continuity breakage.

As such, I don't mind Cybertron taking place ten years after Energon because the lack of direct references to Energon means that I didn't have to be reminded of that show to enjoy Cybertron. And the idea of the black hole in cybertron forming from the collapse of the Energon Sun from Energon kinda feels like justified payback for everyone who slogged through Energon, which I chuckle at. :P

Looking back, despite the uphill battle Hasbro went through to mend what Japan broke, I'd say Cybertron turned out to be an admirable attempt, since the dubbers really had their work cut out for themselves. Not to mention how we finally got some decent acting and scripting across the board, after the absolutely dire acting/writing we got from the Armada (well, more the first half of it than the second half) and Energon dubs.

I think the only thing in the Cybertron dub I still take issue with, in its attempts to repair the disconnected continuity, is how it attempted to make Sonic Bomber into Wing Saber. No, just, no. It worked for Hot Shot since Exillion was very similar to how Hot Shot was in Armada. It worked for Guardshell since Landmine was practically a nobody in Energon (meaning Cybertron gave him a personality). It worked for Dreadrock since, well, I mean, he was so obviously meant to be Jetfire from the onset. But Sonic Bomber and Wing Saber were as different as night and day. It was only their altmodes both being aircraft and their ability to fuse with Optimus that they shared as similarities, and that's where the similarities began and ended. Otherwise, I really REALLY wish that the Cybertron dubbers had either kept Sonic Bomber's original name or gave him a different name from "Wing Saber", as there is just no reconciling the two, no matter how many hoops one has to jump through to do so. It's like the black hole didn't just erase Wing Saber's memories but rewrote his personality entirely, and then rewrote everyone else's memories into thinking that Wing Saber was always like that, instead of the young dweebish guard that Energon Wing Saber originally was as Wing Dagger. :HEADHURTS:
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Kurona » Fri Apr 28, 2017 6:39 pm

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Cybertron certainly is a lot easier to watch when you don't take into account the rest of the Unicron Trilogy. Hell, that's how I watched it (or, rather, a bunch of random episodes sprinkled around with only a vague understanding of the plot) as a kid, and when I was a bit older around 14 or so and decided to re-watch it, I didn't watch Armada or Energon first. Frankly, if you didn't know Armada and Energon existed and are supposed to be prequels to this, you wouldn't be able to tell from the show itself aside from those weird stills in the last episode. Do you really have to remind me Kicker exists?

That said, Cybertron is... hm. I easily rate it as the best of the Unicron Trilogy, but when you're up against Armada and especially Energon, that's not an especially hard feat. It's pretty decent and it has some cool elements to it; for some reason Velocitron, Override and Ransack keeps being referenced by everything. I never got that; Animated, Aligned and IDW all have them exist in some capacity. I guess the Jungle and Giant planets just aren't good enough for them. Also, it's pretty friggin' cool to see a Starscream that not only manages to pull off his treachery, not only manages to achieve his goals, and not only manages to challenge Megatron; but manages to challenge GALVATRON. And apparently, if it wasn't down to a last-minute luck check that Galvy bypasses with plot armour, Screamer would have won. That's great.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby ScottyP » Thu May 04, 2017 6:54 am

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Objectively, Cybertron is no Emmy nominee, that's for certain. It is one of my favorite Transformers shows though, because it tried to step somewhat out of the box and do cool new things. Colony worlds, implied multiculturalism, and Primus using Cybertron's Moons as freaking maces. The racing stuff is painful in hindsight but keep in mind this was the era of Initial D and Tokyo Drift, so while a hair late to the peak popularity of those it was timely.

I've rambled and forgot to type my actual point, as usual.

Anyways, I asked Mr. Archer the "chicken and egg" version of the Cybertron production question at last year's Botcon. It was essentially the short version of what Sabrblade posted - Hasbro always intended for it to fictionally be a sequel to Energon, Takara somehow didn't get the memo, and the rest is history.

Personally, I treat it as its own thing.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Sabrblade » Thu May 04, 2017 7:20 am

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ScottyP wrote:Anyways, I asked Mr. Archer the "chicken and egg" version of the Cybertron production question at last year's Botcon. It was essentially the short version of what Sabrblade posted - Hasbro always intended for it to fictionally be a sequel to Energon, Takara somehow didn't get the memo, and the rest is history.
Now, that surprises me a bit. Was it really Takara as a whole or just GONZO (the company that made the cartoon) who didn't get the memo? I can understand GONZO missing that point but Takara too? I mean, they helped make the toys and really couldn't tell that Dreadrock, Exillion, First Aid, and Guardshell were all supposed to be a new, updated versions of Jetfire/Skyfire, Hot Rod/Hot Shot, Ratchet, and Landmine? (Yes, I am using the Japanese names in this case.) They each had the same faces as their predecessors, even; to say nothing of Galaxy Convoy, Master Megatron, and Starscream. Was Takara really just that blind?

Oh man, now you got me wishing I'd asked Mr. Archer more about this myself at last year's BotCon. :oops:
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby ScottyP » Thu May 04, 2017 11:43 am

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It was at the panel and I paraphrased what I recall of the response :oops: I do know that Gonzo was not specifically mentioned.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Sabrblade » Thu May 04, 2017 12:15 pm

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ScottyP wrote:It was at the panel and I paraphrased what I recall of the response :oops: I do know that Gonzo was not specifically mentioned.
Oh, now I see. You were saying that you were the person who asked that question during the Q&A session of that panel. I thought I that you meant that you had approached Mr. Archer at the con to ask him about it in person. My mistake.

Looking back at the notes I took at that panel, I do see your question and the response he gave that I jotted down, in which I now see that he did mention only Takara. I guess I didn't think much of it at the time when he gave that answer in the panel.

Still though, one would think that the people who were making the toys would have recognized the similarities between the Galaxy Force characters and the characters of Micron Densetsu and Super Link that they were clearly supposed to resemble, right? I mean, the alternative just sounds baffling to me.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby o.supreme » Thu May 04, 2017 12:25 pm

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Honestly though, Aaron Archer was involved with the toy aspect, and if he had any communication at all it would have been with Takara. I honestly think it *may* have been a blanket answer, he probably wasn't aware of which studio in Japan was animating the series. In fact I'm willing to bet that most people on the toy design team (since they are designing these toys some times almost 2 years in advance), never even watch the shows beyond perhaps as a reference for any last-minute changes that may be needed. I mean by the time the show airs, they are typically working on the next thing. I just think they don't have time, and some may not care to watch the series, which is sad.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Kurona » Thu May 04, 2017 6:20 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
ScottyP wrote:It was at the panel and I paraphrased what I recall of the response :oops: I do know that Gonzo was not specifically mentioned.
Oh, now I see. You were saying that you were the person who asked that question during the Q&A session of that panel. I thought I that you meant that you had approached Mr. Archer at the con to ask him about it in person. My mistake.

Looking back at the notes I took at that panel, I do see your question and the response he gave that I jotted down, in which I now see that he did mention only Takara. I guess I didn't think much of it at the time when he gave that answer in the panel.

Still though, one would think that the people who were making the toys would have recognized the similarities between the Galaxy Force characters and the characters of Micron Densetsu and Super Link that they were clearly supposed to resemble, right? I mean, the alternative just sounds baffling to me.

Wasn't Takara's thinking that it was supposed to be a reboot of ML and SL? In that case the toys resembling those characters would make about as much sense as any new series' Optimus Prime resembling previous Optimus Primes - it's a new version of a previous series' character.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Sabrblade » Thu May 04, 2017 6:51 pm

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Kurona wrote:Wasn't Takara's thinking that it was supposed to be a reboot of ML and SL? In that case the toys resembling those characters would make about as much sense as any new series' Optimus Prime resembling previous Optimus Primes - it's a new version of a previous series' character.
Wouldn't they have at least kept the names, then, were that they case?

I mean, they didn't just change the names to something slightly different like they did with "Hot Rod" and "Jetfire" in MD to "Skyfire" and "Hot Shot" in SL. They made all new, completely dissimilar names from the ground up: "Dreadrock" and "Exillion", respectively.

I wish we could get an interview with someone who was in on the Takara side of things at the time.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Kurona » Fri May 05, 2017 7:07 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
Kurona wrote:Wasn't Takara's thinking that it was supposed to be a reboot of ML and SL? In that case the toys resembling those characters would make about as much sense as any new series' Optimus Prime resembling previous Optimus Primes - it's a new version of a previous series' character.
Wouldn't they have at least kept the names, then, were that they case?

I mean, they didn't just change the names to something slightly different like they did with "Hot Rod" and "Jetfire" in MD to "Skyfire" and "Hot Shot" in SL. They made all new, completely dissimilar names from the ground up: "Dreadrock" and "Exillion", respectively.

I wish we could get an interview with someone who was in on the Takara side of things at the time.

Oh yeah, forgot about that; my bad. I suppose maybe they really, really just didn't realise or considered it a homage?
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Sabrblade » Fri May 05, 2017 7:55 am

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Changing things up a bit, I've noticed a pattern that tends to happen virtually every time we get a Transformers cartoon that's meant to be a sequel to its immediate predecessor: The fans criticize it for not being faithful enough to said immediate predecessor.

Beast Machines, Cybertron, Go!, RID 2015, even The Headmasters. About the only sequel series to avoid getting this kind of criticism was Energon (but that had a whole bunch of other criticisms to bear, but I digress).

In my experience, the critics who chastise the aforementioned sequels for the aforementioned reasons of unfaithfulness seem more like they were expecting the sequels to just be "the next season" of the sequels' predecessors, rather than allowing the sequels to be their own thing like they always try and want to be. In this regard, perhaps the entire notion of these series being "sequels" is a sweeping misnomer, in that they are merely a later addition to their respective continuities' timelines, but aren't necessarily meant to be an inherent, genuine continuation of the stories told by the preceding series.

Examine, for instance, the Masterforce and Victory cartoons. Both have been called the "second sequel" and "third sequel" to the G1 cartoon, respectively, but each has very little to actually relate to the G1 cartoon. All three shows (as well as The Headmasters) are accepted as existing in the same Japanese cartoon timeline, but Masterforce and Victory are, in essence, so very far detached from the G1 cartoon, isolating themselves off in their own little corners of the timeline, that they both could really stand on their own without the G1 cartoon in the same way that a lot of people prefer to separate the Cybertron cartoon from Armada and Energon. Masterforce even lacks all the futuristic stuff that G1 season 3 and The Headmasters were full of, presenting itself as more closely resembling 1980s Earth, much like how Cybertron resembled present-day Earth rather than having any of the futuristic-looking stuff that Energon had.

Therefore, why are more people willing to view Masterforce and Victory, which have barely any ties to the G1 cartoon, as acceptable successors to the G1 cartoon, but not the same for Cybertron as a successor to Armada and Energon? If it's a matter of how long after the G1 cartoon Masterforce and Victory took place that helps them make sense in people's eyes, Cybertron was set a full decade after Energon, while Masterforce was set roughly around that same amount of years after G1 (considering how the Japanese version of season 3 took place in 2010 instead of 2006) and Victory being in 2025 would put it not too far off from when Masterforce itself was set.

And the aforementioned lack of futuristic Earth stuff in both Masterforce and Cybertron can be easily chalked up to the same reasoning, that the futuristic stuff seen in G1 season 3/The Headmasters and Energon weren't as globally ubiquitous as they appeared to be.

For G1 season 3 and The Headmasters, a LOT of time was spent in both shows that took place in the U.S., which is where we saw more futuristic tech than not, what with Autobot City and the EDC both being based in that country. Whereas episodes of each that took the characters to other countries showed that there were still parts of the world that did not have all the same future tech that America had, like this village in the Netherlands seen in "The Ultimate Weapon", for instance:
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Or this vast undeveloped region of Japan from "The Burden Hardest to Bear":
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Or, for a The Headmasters example, this village in Peru:

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As far as Energon's futuristic stuff went, upon actual reflection of the settings that show took place in, not once did that show ever take place on Earth in a normal, non-Autobot-affiliated Earth city. Every single location set on Earth in that show was confined to either the Cybertron Cities or to remote, uninhabited sections of the planet, devoid of any human populaces. Therefore, all of the futuristic stuff seen on Earth in that show was only seen within the Cybertron Cities, which were all located within isolated regions of the planet that were all completely cut off from any civilian cities. Meaning that we never got to see what the rest of the populated world in that show looked like outside of the Cybertron Cities, doubly meaning that we have no way to tell if there was any future tech on Earth in the outside world's civilian population centers.

Therefore, these situations open to door for the rest of the world not needing to be as high-tech as either the U.S. in G1 season 3/The Headmasters or the Cybertron Cities in Energon, and thus provides a reasonable out for both Masterforce and Cybertron not having a futuristic-looking Earth. :-)
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby o.supreme » Fri May 05, 2017 8:36 am

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I do agree in some respects.

BM was faithful visually to BW, but tonally was completely different, and since it was technically part of the original TF continuity, the idea of an organic core to Cybertron was really the largest problem I had, Primal's overly philosophical views had me :roll: every once in a while, but it did not ruin the show. To me it is an inferior sequel, but certainly not the worst TF series of all time.

RiD15 - I do not fault the animation change. TF Prime looked Beautiful, but I understand how expensive it was to produce and the idea of maintaining such a series for so long could not be done indefinitely (unless your Disney evidently ) ;). The tonal change was a little jarring at first, but I've come to accept it. I can respect how this fits into the aligned continuity. Rescue Bots is a whole other situation. I just kind of see this as being told from a small child's perspective, which is what it was intended for. I mean I would not expect to see Megatron or Unicron on Rescue Bots, nor would I expect to see Mr. Pettypaws on TF Prime. Rid15 is kind of a neutral ground however where anything can happen.

I do agree that Energon was a pretty faithful follow up to Armada, despite going from hand-drawn to cell shading in animating the TFs themselves, there was a lot of background explanation in the beginning and dots connecting you to where everyone had been during the 10 year gap between series, and what was happening moving forward. Cybertron had none of that, characters appearing from the dead without explanation, new ones appearing without explanation, the TF's not being recognized on earth, having to be "robots in disguise" (despite having whole cities and working with earths governments in the previous series...) it just didn't make sense, which is why I actually rate it as the bottom tier of the Unicron *triloy* (I even hate using that term...) which I know is not popular.

as for the Japanese series (HM, MF & Victory). I have a unique take on these. I love them. As an 11 year old in 1987, I did not know, neone of us kids knew that would be the end of Tranbsformers. It was left open ended, and we expected a full season of episoides. only after about a year, and when the show went on weekend with thepuppet and they only showed re-runs did we realize it was over. I had a friend in elementary school who was an exchange stundent form japan. He had family that was recording episodes of the Japanese series on VHS and mailing them to him every few weeks. I got to see a couple episodes of Masterfrce when they were still airing. I didn't even know there was a headmasters series that preceeded it, it just felt like natural progression seeing the Pretenders and Powermasters in a "5th season" that we in the U.S.A were being deprived of, I was furious. I read in an anime magazine in late 1990 a large article all about the Japanese Transformers series, they explained each one, when it aired etc... and my thought was...why in the world are these not available here? I need to see these. Well it took another 8 years but I tracked down some bootleg copes of Headmasters at Botcon in 1998 (just a few random HM episodes of the awful dub). But eventually through internet contacts I got all 3 series in completion. This was amazing.... imagine having another 100 episodes of your favorite show ever that you had never seen before. Despite the fact that Headmasters starts out with a couple characters that died in TF:TM I understand why this occurred (since Japan did not get the movie until years later), but other than that I take the as the genuine continuation of the original series (omitting The Rebirth of course). I often in my own head canon wonder what happened between Operation Combination & Beast Wars (to ME that is the "3 Centuries" Black Arachnia refers to- the last known event of one animated series world, to the next.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby o.supreme » Fri May 05, 2017 8:54 am

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Sabrblade wrote:Therefore, why are more people willing to view Masterforce and Victory, which have barely any ties to the G1 cartoon, as acceptable successors to the G1 cartoon, but not the same for Cybertron as a successor to Armada and Energon? If it's a matter of how long after the G1 cartoon Masterforce and Victory took place that helps them make sense in people's eyes, Cybertron was set a full decade after Energon, while Masterforce was set roughly around that same amount of years after G1 (considering how the Japanese version of season 3 took place in 2010 instead of 2006) and Victory being in 2025 would put it not too far off from when Masterforce itself was set.


The reason for me is direct reference. I agree that while Headmasters stayed pretty faithful to the original series. MF & V were a vast departure. Here's the difference. In both those series, they made sure to make a "solid bridge" in an early episode of Masterforce we have a "recorded message" from Chromedome encouraging the Jr. Headmasters. There were also clip shows that explained what happened between the events of Headmasters and Masterforce, and how they are linked.

In Victory you start out seeing God Ginrai (a familiar face form the previous series) and explanation is given as to what's been happening in-between series, later you see God Ginrai report from the field as he continues his battles against Overlord in another area of deep space. Also with the whle arc involving the death of God Ginrai and being reborn as Victory Leo you get Percepter, Wheeljack and Minerva (all familiar characters from previous series)...now I know Wheeljack died in TF:TM, but again, Japan had not received the movie yet. Maybe he survived somehow, or was rebuilt... ;)

With Cybertron, other than a few passing references to Unicron there is no connection. Jetfire's personality (and voice) are completely different, same with Hot Shot. In fact I cringe every time when the explanation of the Black Hole coming form the destruction of Unicron is given and Overhaul says something like "Yeah we kicked his giant butt" or some ridiculous thing... and I'm saying to myself..."and where were you in that series?...oh yeah, you weren't" Megatron & Starscream just appear without explanation after having been destroyed at the end of Energon. Also the Autobots are back to "Robots in Disguise" on Earth? Did the whole population of earth somehow forget the war they were involved with 10 years prior? The huge flippin cities the Transformers had built on their own planet? --Also the fact that the last episode in the CN version shoehorned in drawings of an older Carlos,Rad,Alexis & Kicker doesn't help, (also the laughable moment when Hotshot apparently from his past Energon self is there as well)...a few random drawings at the last moment does not fix a continuity break.
Last edited by o.supreme on Fri May 05, 2017 8:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Sabrblade » Fri May 05, 2017 8:55 am

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o.supreme wrote:RiD15 - I do not fault the animation change. TF Prime looked Beautiful, but I understand how expensive it was to produce and the idea of maintaining such a series for so long could not be done indefinitely (unless your Disney evidently ) ;). The tonal change was a little jarring at first, but I've come to accept it. I can respect how this fits into the aligned continuity. Rescue Bots is a whole other situation. I just kind of see this as being told from a small child's perspective, which is what it was intended for. I mean I would not expect to see Megatron or Unicron on Rescue Bots, nor would I expect to see Mr. Pettypaws on TF Prime. Rid15 is kind of a neutral ground however where anything can happen.
Funny you should mention Rescue Bots's connection with the other shows, as Blurr's debut episode in RID has him recall Sideswipe's previous Rescue Bots appearance, ("What's up, bud? Been a while since we took down that cyclone, huh?"), acknowledge his new appearance to Sideswipe ("I wasn't sure you'd recognize me. Like the new look?") and Sideswipe make the first direct, unambiguous mention of the Rescue Bots in the RID cartoon ("Hey, some of you don't know Blurr, here. He's with the Rescue Bots from Griffin Rock."). And later, in Blurr's departing episode, he makes an open mention of Heatwave ("I'd love to stick around and help, but I better get back to my Rescue Team, before Heatwave blows a gasket."). The continuity between the shows is growing stronger. 8-)

o.supreme wrote:I do agree that Energon was a pretty faithful follow up to Armada, despite going from hand-drawn to cell shading in animating the TFs themselves, there was a lot of background explanation in the beginning and dots connecting you to where everyone had been during the 10 year gap between series, and what was happening moving forward. Cybertron had none of that, characters appearing from the dead without explanation, new ones appearing without explanation, the TF's not being recognized on earth, having to be "robots in disguise" (despite having whole cities and working with earths governments in the previous series...) it just didn't make sense, which is why I actually rate it as the bottom tier of the Unicron *triloy* (I even hate using that term...) which I know is not popular.
Wait, who besides Megatron, Starscream, and Sideways was back from the dead?

As for explanations, because of how Japan mistreated Galaxy Force's continuity, a lot of the explanations had to come from outside the show, like in the Hasbro.com Ask Vector Prime feature, or in the Fun Pub Cybertron comics (which eventually got released at retail in TPB form by IDW).

o.supreme wrote:I often in my own head canon wonder what happened between Operation Combination & Beast Wars (to ME that is the "3 Centuries" Black Arachnia refers to- the last known event of one animated series world, to the next.
What about the G-2 fiction (barring the one standalone manga issue that was out of continuity with the cartoon)?
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby Sabrblade » Fri May 05, 2017 9:23 am

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o.supreme wrote:With Cybertron, other than a few passing references to Unicron there is no connection.
Save for all these things that were even in the original Galaxy Force version:

Armada Unicron's debris
Image

Energon Alexis
Image

Armada Mini-Con seen on a mural on Gigantion
Image

Among others. ;)

o.supreme wrote:Jetfire's personality (and voice) are completely different,
The voice I'll give you (because the dubbers wanted a new voice for him, for some reason), but his personality really wasn't all that different, what with Jetfire's original cockiness from Armada having grown less and less across the events of Energon, with Jetfire by the end of that show being as ordinary as Average Joes come.

o.supreme wrote:same with Hot Shot.
At least his was familiar with how he was in Armada, which frankly made him much more fun and interesting in both that show and Cybertron than he ever was in Energon.

o.supreme wrote:In fact I cringe every time when the explanation of the Black Hole coming form the destruction of Unicron is given and Overhaul says something like "Yeah we kicked his giant butt" or some ridiculous thing... and I'm saying to myself..."and where were you in that series?...oh yeah, you weren't"
At the very least, that was something. Galaxy Force's reason behind the black hole was the destruction of some nameless god of evil who was pretty much Unicron in all but name, anyway.

o.supreme wrote:Megatron & Starscream just appear without explanation after having been destroyed at the end of Energon.
I know there was some explanation given by Hasbro somewhere, but I can't seem to track it down.

o.supreme wrote:Also the Autobots are back to "Robots in Disguise" on Earth? Did the whole population of earth somehow forget the war they were involved with 10 years prior? The huge flippin cities the Transformers had built on their own planet?
Exacly how much of humanity knew of the Transformers, exactly?

Also, in my above-mentioned looking for the "Megatron/Starscream alive" explanation, I just found out that in the original Galaxy Force version, Bud knew what a "Transformer" was from the onset, and identified Landmine/Guardshell as one right on the spot upon seeing him arrive on Earth in the first episode.

o.supreme wrote:--Also the fact that the last episode in the CN version shoehorned in drawings of an older Carlos,Rad,Alexis & Kicker doesn't help, (also the laughable moment when Hotshot apparently from his past Energon self is there as well)...a few random drawings at the last moment does not fix a continuity break.
Wait, you thought that was literally Energon Hot Shot with him? No no, that was just an image of him above Kicker.

See the transparent fading effects on the far edges of picture:

Image
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Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Energon and Cybertron link?

Postby o.supreme » Fri May 05, 2017 9:32 am

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Sorry I just think sometimes people(not you Sabr just some fans) are so desperate they'll grasp anything from conjecture

Armada Unicron's debris
Image

Looks like random debris to me

Energon Alexis
Image

random generic anime girl

Armada Mini-Con seen on a mural on Gigantion
Image

this one I link to Cybertron just as Armada had random "G1 generics"


Basically...while no series sequel is perfect, I just think in general Masterforce & Victory at the time did a better job of linking to previous work than Cybertron did to its previous series. Again neither is perfect, but at least I don't feel completely disconnected when I try to watch MF & Victory, but again that's just me.
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