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I have a question. I'm not opposed to Arcee being in the sequel but how will they shoot her scenes when she's in alt.mode? Will she be a CGI motorcycle or will they use a remote controlled bike?

darkqueen01 wrote::BOT:"Yes and no. If there are no distinct genders then, yes, in transformers lore there are no females but then that also means that there are no males in Transformers culture. Due to this lack of distinction then that means that individual transformers can look and act in distinctive manners without being labeled as a male or female because this concept does not exist in transformers culture.

Yes, except that every "male" TF is referred to as He, and it is accepted and not only considered normal, but expected. Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, they're all guys. They act like guys without even trying. They downloaded guy personalities from the world wide web. They actually are dudes.

darkqueen01 wrote:Or there is another concept, that which Tazirai came up with.

In his posts he came up with the idea that Transformers could change their voice (and possibly mannerisms?) in order to better communicate with the new species, humans, that they are now living with. So the transformer Arcee comes to the conclusion that since "female humans" seem to communicate better then their "male human" counter parts then, as a communications officer, she would reflect that notion when coming to live and interact on Earth. At least, that is what I got out of it. Man, I can hear the fan boys cry foul on that one.

Okay, I like that one. It fits the genderless arguement as well as the gender arguement. I actually wouldn't be upset with Arcee in TF2 if she was done like that. It actually turned my opinion. IF she was done like that and that way only.

Due to confusion with continuities and series, I've added a disclaimer to my long-winded posts.... for the few who may read these in the future:

Disclaimer:I probably should have clarified that my theories/posts do not refer to previous Transformers fandom, especially G1. It's a kiddy cartoon show created by a company that wanted to sell toys. The aren't out to create some sort of in-depth psychoanalytical television program. Since little kids can relate to the concept of separate males and females then the show would represent that because, quite frankly, it's the easiest thing to do.... or they just didn't want to be so creative.

***************************

Dark Zarak wrote:

darkqueen01 wrote::BOT:"Yes and no. If there are no distinct genders then, yes, in transformers lore there are no females but then that also means that there are no males in Transformers culture. Due to this lack of distinction then that means that individual transformers can look and act in distinctive manners without being labeled as a male or female because this concept does not exist in transformers culture.

Yes, except that every "male" TF is referred to as He, and it is accepted and not only considered normal, but expected. Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, they're all guys. They act like guys without even trying. They downloaded guy personalities from the world wide web. They actually are dudes.

Actually, I would argue this point. You identify them as males because you are still trying to compare them to humans, which in this case doesn't work because we have two separate concepts: a species with two genders vs. a species with no distinct gender.

I get that this is a hard idea to grasp so allow me to try and break it down a bit. Let me stress that these are just my random ideas and not necessary any sort of truth about transformers lore.

A-hem.

In our world, gender is reflected in EVERYTHING because [almost] all biological species on this planet have two genders: humans, animals, even plants. These distinctions are reflected in our culture and, most importantly, in our language.

For us, since there is a BIG NEED to differentiate between males and females we try to identify everything as being male and female. In english: he/she, him/her. This is also seen in other languages, such as spanish: chico/chica, nino/nina.

We even do this with people that have both male and female reproductive organs. In once sense they are a genderless being at birth, at which point you would call on a DNA test to prove genetically if that baby is male or female. Then again you get men who think they are women and vice versa. (That quite frankly is an issue I wish to avoid at this point. This is complicated enough.) In any even you have people that are choosing to be either male or female because that is how our culture operates. You must be one or the other in some shape or form.

With transformers there is no such thing because you need one group to counter another group. With Transformers, if you accept this idea, there is one group, which is a genderless group. As humans we have no concept of this and nothing to go by. Instead we try to make comparisons so that we can understand a concept that we don't understand. (Example: The eye is like the lens of a camera)

With transformers, since our language reflects that we have no concept of a one gender/lack of gender species, we then attempt to make comparisons. We want to label these characters as male characters because we are comparing them to our own culture. Basically, what most people do is think: This transformer has a deep voice and is very strong, he must be a guy.

However, with transformers, if you buy the one gender idea, they do not distinguish themselves into two gender because they don't have two genders. Hell, there isn't even one gender! To them, they are all just cybertronians. More to the point, there is NO WORD for it in their language because,again, in their culture they would have no concept of this idea. Since they would not differentiate themselves as being male or female then their language would also represent this.

In other words, in the cybertronian language they would not say "He said this," or "She did that." They might just use their names: "Arcee said this" or "Bonecrusher did that". Or maybe they would replace he and she with what we would consider to be gender neutral terms. It would be like how we humans called a group of guys and girls just "guys" because, with most human languages, we tend to make everything masculine because that goes back into history where women were seen as inferior to men, etc, etc.

All I am trying to say is that there can be no A group if a B group isn't present. They would all just be C, because there is no way to distinguish them.

That's all I got. I HAVE to get to bed now. I look forward to more posts or even flammers, tho I will probably just talk them down to nothingness, as is my way of things.

And besides, IT'S JUST A CARTOON!! *L*

darkqueen01 wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:

darkqueen01 wrote::BOT:"Yes and no. If there are no distinct genders then, yes, in transformers lore there are no females but then that also means that there are no males in Transformers culture. Due to this lack of distinction then that means that individual transformers can look and act in distinctive manners without being labeled as a male or female because this concept does not exist in transformers culture.

Yes, except that every "male" TF is referred to as He, and it is accepted and not only considered normal, but expected. Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, they're all guys. They act like guys without even trying. They downloaded guy personalities from the world wide web. They actually are dudes.

Actually, I would argue this point. You identify them as males because you are still trying to compare them to humans, which in this case doesn't work because we have two separate concepts: a species with two genders vs. a species with no distinct gender.

I get that this is a hard idea to grasp so allow me to try and break it down a bit. Let me stress that these are just my random ideas and not necessary any sort of truth about transformers lore.

A-hem.

In our world, gender is reflected in EVERYTHING because [almost] all biological species on this planet have two genders: humans, animals, even plants. These distinctions are reflected in our culture and, most importantly, in our language.

For us, since there is a BIG NEED to differentiate between males and females we try to identify everything as being male and female. In english: he/she, him/her. This is also seen in other languages, such as spanish: chico/chica, nino/nina.

We even do this with people that have both male and female reproductive organs. In once sense they are a genderless being at birth, at which point you would call on a DNA test to prove genetically if that baby is male or female. Then again you get men who think they are women and vice versa. (That quite frankly is an issue I wish to avoid at this point. This is complicated enough.) In any even you have people that are choosing to be either male or female because that is how our culture operates. You must be one or the other in some shape or form.

With transformers there is no such thing because you need one group to counter another group. With Transformers, if you accept this idea, there is one group, which is a genderless group. As humans we have no concept of this and nothing to go by. Instead we try to make comparisons so that we can understand a concept that we don't understand. (Example: The eye is like the lens of a camera)

With transformers, since our language reflects that we have no concept of a one gender/lack of gender species, we then attempt to make comparisons. We want to label these characters as male characters because we are comparing them to our own culture. Basically, what most people do is think: This transformer has a deep voice and is very strong, he must be a guy.

However, with transformers, if you buy the one gender idea, they do not distinguish themselves into two gender because they don't have two genders. Hell, there isn't even one gender! To them, they are all just cybertronians. More to the point, there is NO WORD for it in their language because,again, in their culture they would have no concept of this idea. Since they would not differentiate themselves as being male or female then their language would also represent this.

In other words, in the cybertronian language they would not say "He said this," or "She did that." They might just use their names: "Arcee said this" or "Bonecrusher did that". Or maybe they would replace he and she with what we would consider to be gender neutral terms. It would be like how we humans called a group of guys and girls just "guys" because, with most human languages, we tend to make everything masculine because that goes back into history where women were seen as inferior to men, etc, etc.

All I am trying to say is that there can be no A group if a B group isn't present. They would all just be C, because there is no way to distinguish them.

That's all I got. I HAVE to get to bed now. I look forward to more posts or even flammers, tho I will probably just talk them down to nothingness, as is my way of things.

And besides, IT'S JUST A CARTOON!! *L*

Dude! You stole my WHOLE argument!

Ummmm....ummmm...... I'm sorry please forgive me?

I think we're looking too deeply into this. Transformers may not be organic, but they do share a lot of the same features as organic lifeforms. Such as hands, eyes, mouths, and even emotions. So if one looks and sounds like a girl would that really be so hard to understand?

Well, our culture may just be assigning them genders because that is our way, but I still say all those TF's who downloaded their info chose to be guys because it made the most sense to them.


But I still don't want Arcee to be in the movie.

The reason is because they will probably have a limited number of new characters. And she will take away from better characters.

People get all caught up in the idea that Arcee is a girl and therefore should or shouldn't be in the movie, as if that was the reason.

The reason she should NOT be in the movie is because she is a token character. She has no personality, and she's quite frankly lame.

Ultra Magnus, Prowl, Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, Jetfire, freaking Metroplex as a damn aircraft carrier, Grimlock as whatever, Wheeljack, these are all far better characters. I don't care if Arcee is the first hermaphrodite TF, she's stupid.

No Arcee for TF2.

darkqueen01 wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:

darkqueen01 wrote::BOT:"Yes and no. If there are no distinct genders then, yes, in transformers lore there are no females but then that also means that there are no males in Transformers culture. Due to this lack of distinction then that means that individual transformers can look and act in distinctive manners without being labeled as a male or female because this concept does not exist in transformers culture.

Yes, except that every "male" TF is referred to as He, and it is accepted and not only considered normal, but expected. Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, they're all guys. They act like guys without even trying. They downloaded guy personalities from the world wide web. They actually are dudes.

Actually, I would argue this point. You identify them as males because you are still trying to compare them to humans, which in this case doesn't work because we have two separate concepts: a species with two genders vs. a species with no distinct gender.

I get that this is a hard idea to grasp so allow me to try and break it down a bit. Let me stress that these are just my random ideas and not necessary any sort of truth about transformers lore.

A-hem.

In our world, gender is reflected in EVERYTHING because [almost] all biological species on this planet have two genders: humans, animals, even plants. These distinctions are reflected in our culture and, most importantly, in our language.

For us, since there is a BIG NEED to differentiate between males and females we try to identify everything as being male and female. In english: he/she, him/her. This is also seen in other languages, such as spanish: chico/chica, nino/nina.

We even do this with people that have both male and female reproductive organs. In once sense they are a genderless being at birth, at which point you would call on a DNA test to prove genetically if that baby is male or female. Then again you get men who think they are women and vice versa. (That quite frankly is an issue I wish to avoid at this point. This is complicated enough.) In any even you have people that are choosing to be either male or female because that is how our culture operates. You must be one or the other in some shape or form.

With transformers there is no such thing because you need one group to counter another group. With Transformers, if you accept this idea, there is one group, which is a genderless group. As humans we have no concept of this and nothing to go by. Instead we try to make comparisons so that we can understand a concept that we don't understand. (Example: The eye is like the lens of a camera)

With transformers, since our language reflects that we have no concept of a one gender/lack of gender species, we then attempt to make comparisons. We want to label these characters as male characters because we are comparing them to our own culture. Basically, what most people do is think: This transformer has a deep voice and is very strong, he must be a guy.

However, with transformers, if you buy the one gender idea, they do not distinguish themselves into two gender because they don't have two genders. Hell, there isn't even one gender! To them, they are all just cybertronians. More to the point, there is NO WORD for it in their language because,again, in their culture they would have no concept of this idea. Since they would not differentiate themselves as being male or female then their language would also represent this.

In other words, in the cybertronian language they would not say "He said this," or "She did that." They might just use their names: "Arcee said this" or "Bonecrusher did that". Or maybe they would replace he and she with what we would consider to be gender neutral terms. It would be like how we humans called a group of guys and girls just "guys" because, with most human languages, we tend to make everything masculine because that goes back into history where women were seen as inferior to men, etc, etc.

All I am trying to say is that there can be no A group if a B group isn't present. They would all just be C, because there is no way to distinguish them.

That's all I got. I HAVE to get to bed now. I look forward to more posts or even flammers, tho I will probably just talk them down to nothingness, as is my way of things.

And besides, IT'S JUST A CARTOON!! *L*

Well put

darkqueen01 wrote:Ummmm....ummmm...... I'm sorry please forgive me?

You're good. lol. And you said it a lot more eloquently than I could have(with shiny colored fonts, too!)

But I seriously had this exact same discussion with someone a few days ago.

Dark Zarak wrote:

darkqueen01 wrote::BOT:"Yes and no. If there are no distinct genders then, yes, in transformers lore there are no females but then that also means that there are no males in Transformers culture. Due to this lack of distinction then that means that individual transformers can look and act in distinctive manners without being labeled as a male or female because this concept does not exist in transformers culture.

Yes, except that every "male" TF is referred to as He, and it is accepted and not only considered normal, but expected. Prime, Megatron, Bumblebee, Starscream, they're all guys. They act like guys without even trying. They downloaded guy personalities from the world wide web. They actually are dudes.

Let's not forget one other thing, we also know that the movie TFs PISS LIKE GUYS too!

Face it, people who don't complain about male TFs on the big screen, but hate the idea of female TFs have a horrible double-standard. People need to realise that men can like female characters without it being anything sexual. I like the idea of Arcee in the next film because her bot design and her alt mode kick ass, not because she's a fembot - though it does add variety.

Dark Zarak wrote:The reason she should NOT be in the movie is because she is a token character. She has no personality, and she's quite frankly lame.

Ultra Magnus, Prowl, Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, Jetfire, freaking Metroplex as a damn aircraft carrier, Grimlock as whatever, Wheeljack, these are all far better characters. I don't care if Arcee is the first hermaphrodite TF, she's stupid.

No Arcee for TF2.

Who says she has to be a token character? You're ignoring the fact that movie Arcee's personality is *potential*, it's like you're critising her for being a token TF when the movie isn't even made yet. Look at that Arcee spotlight coming out, alot of the feedback has been great - people are glad to finally see an Arcee that can kick ass, why can't the movie version be based on her, and not the G1 version? This is just another example of fans who use the G1 cartoon as precedence for everything, but never look elsewhere for different interpretations of a character.

Why does everyone disregard her right off the bat because "zomg she was lame 20 years ago"? So? Bumblebee was lame 20 years ago too, and the movie made him cool.

New universe people. New universe.

Sorry, double-post.

darkqueen01 wrote:
Tazirai, I really do like the story concepts that you are coming up with. I think it shows that "female" type transformers could be possible. It also shows that what is going on in the Transformers universe is a uniquely and completely different concept than what has previously been seen in other realms of science fiction and fantasy.

I think the major problem going on here is that people can't decide how, or if, they/we want Transformers to be able to develop the kind of attachments that are so prevalent in biological humanoid species. As humans in real life we naturally develop feelings of attachment in order to find mates. It's not a coincidence that predominantly all science fiction/fantasy species are humanoid beings with similar human characteristics.

People write with what they know and it makes sense that biological species similar to humans would find ways to create some form of attachment to find mates. Granted, with these fictionalized alien species different cultures are created so the way these aliens species form relationships may be vastly different, but the idea is the same: in the end, they form an attachment.

I think that's why I write the way I do. I literally CANNOT, sit down and script ANYTHING. I write on the fly. I create the character, then go from there, or I see something, and go from there. So in a sense, I write what I dont know. I write what I would like to know. I have scribbly notes all over for things that just come to me. Then i make a whole out of the mess.

In regards to writing what we know. I write Aliens better than I write humans. I write ancient humans better than I write our current age. Hell I write animals better than I write people. And heres the biggie. I NEVER give aliens or animals human qualities unless it fits the tale.

So an alien to me is just that alien. With pure alien motives. In the two "female" robots above, I gave them human qualities to show it could be done.

I think folk like me and you, can make the adjustment, but sadly many of the masses can't.
[/b]

I dont see what people have against female transformers, i like em. I think they add some well needed diversity and i hope we see more in the future.

Check out this thread. Not a flame war yet!

I started a response here, but after haveing all these idea whiz through my head for two hours I had to save it for later. I have a LOT of homework to do. But I will say this:

publicvisage wrote:

darkqueen01 wrote:Ummmm....ummmm...... I'm sorry please forgive me?

You're good. lol. And you said it a lot more eloquently than I could have(with shiny colored fonts, too!)

But I seriously had this exact same discussion with someone a few days ago.

That is awesome!!! I honestly didn't think that there would be other people out there that would agree with me, much less have had a similar conversation like this before. If this was an online discussion do you possibly have it floating around somewhere? I would love to read it and hear your thoughts and opinion on the matter.

Skowl wrote:Who says she has to be a token character? You're ignoring the fact that movie Arcee's personality is *potential*, it's like you're critising her for being a token TF when the movie isn't even made yet. Look at that Arcee spotlight coming out, alot of the feedback has been great - people are glad to finally see an Arcee that can kick ass, why can't the movie version be based on her, and not the G1 version? This is just another example of fans who use the G1 cartoon as precedence for everything, but never look elsewhere for different interpretations of a character.

Why does everyone disregard her right off the bat because "zomg she was lame 20 years ago"? So? Bumblebee was lame 20 years ago too, and the movie made him cool.

New universe people. New universe.

But none of that makes her cooler than Magnus, Grimlock, Jetfire, Metroplex, Prowl, Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, or Wheeljack.

The first movie didn't put very much personality into the characters, so I doubt we are going to see a new and exciting interpretation of Arcee. She'll be just as much of a token as the characters in the first movie. Maybe even more.

Meanwhile, the characters I listed, even while being made tokens of themselves, are way better than a pink motorcycle.

Dark Zarak wrote:But none of that makes her cooler than Magnus, Grimlock, Jetfire, Metroplex, Prowl, Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, or Wheeljack.

No offense but thats your opinion,not fact. The same argument could be made on the consucticons.
If we get the consucticons, we'll have two devastators in the same universe and 5-6 bob-the-builder cons and no other Decetpticons besides Starscream and Barricade. Arcee is still not the worst Autobot ever. Remember wheele?And I don't think you could count on the twins.Most European car companies don't want their cars portrayed as TFs.They already have a CGI of Arcee so I think its cost-effective to have her in the movie while spending the money towards an other TF CGI model.

Dark Zarak wrote:

Skowl wrote:Who says she has to be a token character? You're ignoring the fact that movie Arcee's personality is *potential*, it's like you're critising her for being a token TF when the movie isn't even made yet. Look at that Arcee spotlight coming out, alot of the feedback has been great - people are glad to finally see an Arcee that can kick ass, why can't the movie version be based on her, and not the G1 version? This is just another example of fans who use the G1 cartoon as precedence for everything, but never look elsewhere for different interpretations of a character.

Why does everyone disregard her right off the bat because "zomg she was lame 20 years ago"? So? Bumblebee was lame 20 years ago too, and the movie made him cool.

New universe people. New universe.

But none of that makes her cooler than Magnus, Grimlock, Jetfire, Metroplex, Prowl, Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, or Wheeljack.

Meanwhile, the characters I listed, even while being made tokens of themselves, are way better than a pink motorcycle.

Maybe for you. But those characters you listed strike me as some of the most boring, bland characters G1 had to offer. Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, what was ever interesting about them? They're just carbon-copies of most of the other autobot cars who are way more token than Arcee was. In fact, Sideswipe and Sunstreaker were probably the first example of shameless repaints in order to sell more toys. Ultra Magnus has been done to death and I'm so sick of seeing him everywhere I look. We've already had a cop car with Barricade, so Prowl is not necessary. Metroplex is so huge and enormous that I don't think you could imagine a scenario where you would have to pick between either Metroplex or Arcee (they are so different you could easily have both). Same argument goes for Jetfire.

People will say "you can't have Arcee because she takes a spot in the movie away from better characters like Metroplex or Jetfire" - but can Arcee really replace characters like those? You can't imagine an aerial dogfight with Starscream and Jetfire, and then replace Jetfire with Arcee. These are two different characters who are needed for two completely different scenarios.

As for the others (and this drives me nuts with fans) most have been done to death. Overused and stale after being included in every toy series, every comic book, every statuette and bust. Everything. I get the feeling that sometimes if you would let fans decide the future of the franchise, it would just be Ultra Magnus, Hot Rod and Constructicons toys for the next 15 years.

Yeah, let's leave Arcee out to make room for better characters... like the ones who have been re-used and recycled so much that they've become worn out and stale.

Skowl wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:

Skowl wrote:Who says she has to be a token character? You're ignoring the fact that movie Arcee's personality is *potential*, it's like you're critising her for being a token TF when the movie isn't even made yet. Look at that Arcee spotlight coming out, alot of the feedback has been great - people are glad to finally see an Arcee that can kick ass, why can't the movie version be based on her, and not the G1 version? This is just another example of fans who use the G1 cartoon as precedence for everything, but never look elsewhere for different interpretations of a character.

Why does everyone disregard her right off the bat because "zomg she was lame 20 years ago"? So? Bumblebee was lame 20 years ago too, and the movie made him cool.

New universe people. New universe.

But none of that makes her cooler than Magnus, Grimlock, Jetfire, Metroplex, Prowl, Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, or Wheeljack.

Meanwhile, the characters I listed, even while being made tokens of themselves, are way better than a pink motorcycle.

Maybe for you. But those characters you listed strike me as some of the most boring, bland characters G1 had to offer. Sideswipe and Sunstreaker, what was ever interesting about them? They're just carbon-copies of most of the other autobot cars who are way more token than Arcee was. In fact, Sideswipe and Sunstreaker were probably the first example of shameless repaints in order to sell more toys. Ultra Magnus has been done to death and I'm so sick of seeing him everywhere I look. We've already had a cop car with Barricade, so Prowl is not necessary. Metroplex is so huge and enormous that I don't think you could imagine a scenario where you would have to pick between either Metroplex or Arcee (they are so different you could easily have both). Same argument goes for Jetfire.

People will say "you can't have Arcee because she takes a spot in the movie away from better characters like Metroplex or Jetfire" - but can Arcee really replace characters like those? You can't imagine an aerial dogfight with Starscream and Jetfire, and then replace Jetfire with Arcee. These are two different characters who are needed for two completely different scenarios.

As for the others (and this drives me nuts with fans) most have been done to death. Overused and stale after being included in every toy series, every comic book, every statuette and bust. Everything. I get the feeling that sometimes if you would let fans decide the future of the franchise, it would just be Ultra Magnus, Hot Rod and Constructicons toys for the next 15 years.

Yeah, let's leave Arcee out to make room for better characters... like the ones who have been re-used and recycled so much that they've become worn out and stale.

QFT!

... she was kinda lame. She never did anything in the series. Do you know anyone who had the toy growing up.. I never saw her. Arcee was lame... but I bet they put her in the next one and I bet they make her cool as a "crotch rocket!";-)

The only female in the movie is a "crotch Rocket?" Interesting. lol

Mattamus Prime wrote: Do you know anyone who had the toy growing up.. I never saw her.

umm... there were no Arcee toys back in the day... that's probably why you never saw any kids with one.

It's hard to play with a toy that doesn't exist... unless you have a vivid imagination...

Skowl wrote:

Mattamus Prime wrote:
It's hard to play with a toy that doesn't exist... unless you have a vivid imagination...

..and a penis.

As far as how female transformers "work", it's like someone else mentioned - if a transformer go from protoform to masculine, then it can just as easily go from protoform to feminine. There are many sci-fi fantasy movies that portray different immortal or ancient species (be they humanoid or not) that have different genders, but seem to have transcended to another plane of thinking where gender matters little. Perhaps that is the case with transformers.

Also, think about it this way, we have male and female plugs and cords, yet they're just electronics.

Now on the question of being "attached" to Arcee, I can speak to that personally. While other little tykes were more concerned with accessorizing their Barbie dolls and Polly Pockets, I was happily content watching Transformers. Most cartoon shows, even with heroines/superheroines, they take extra pains to make the female characters either hyper feminine or almost concubine sexy. Arcee was different in the fact that she was a pull-no-punches, fighter and could play just as rough as the big boys.

I'm with Tazirai - there are a ton of women in the military or para-military organisations that could probably identify with Arcee (I know because I used to be one of them). So yes, I would definitely like to see Arcee in the upcoming movies. I agree that she would not have fit in the first movie and would have detracted from the plotline, but there's much more room to work with in future films.

Dark Zarak - I disagree. Writer's can always change personalities, increase or decrease certain traits and personality quirks. She a compentent fighter, marksman, etc. And from a human perspective, you can write that in many different ways. You can write her as a Lara Croft-esque character with a bit of a smirk and edge to her (though probably not quite the sex appeal, I would imagine) or just a straight bad-ass like Trinity. Or the writers may be ingenous enough to come up with something new all-together. Who knows?

Though I will remark on the fact that the design Ben Proctor did (although the body was great), the face more reminded me of a bug-eyed praying mantis than a female autobot. But the new fuschia colour isn't too bad. I definitely prefer it over the pastel pink.

PS - Btw, Tazirai, I loved the freestyle scriptwrite you did. Great idea!

Dark Zarak wrote:
But I still don't want Arcee to be in the movie.

The reason is because they will probably have a limited number of new characters. And she will take away from better characters.

People get all caught up in the idea that Arcee is a girl and therefore should or shouldn't be in the movie, as if that was the reason.

The reason she should NOT be in the movie is because she is a token character. She has no personality, and she's quite frankly lame.


No Arcee for TF2.

I have been following thie thread for a while. The emotions that the humans have in this thread are very real. I am glad that transformers have alien emotions and are not bound by these problems.

When I was watching the Movie DVD that had CG pictures of the robots, they showed a pink one. Just seeing it got my hackles up (ok, so I am not anthropormorphic). It was pink and wussie! I am so glad they did not put it in the movie.

Here is my emotional response that I have consigned on to paper to convey my thoughts.

The story begins by a decepticon arriving to Earth after Starscream has left. It chooses one of my old trucks as its form. It is female and without any visible gender differences (or GM badging).



I am not an artist, but here is a sketch of its transformed mode. There is supposed to be a decepticon symbol on the hood scoop.



This decepticon has heard that a pink female autobot has recently arrived on Earth. First it is in vehicle mode and tries to take out the pink motorcycle with its "tailgater eliminator" (an M-16, not shown). Then it transforms and blasts it in half.
The sole purpose of this decepticon is to surface and then to disappear. It's motto is in line with the decepticon way of thinking. "There can be only one" (female robot on Earth).
(This motto is not related to the series Highlander)

Jazz had a bigger chest on the movie than any I would want to see on a transformer. I like to hear the male voices and listen to the banter between friends and foes, which by the way was mostly missing from the movie.
Gender shouldn't matter unless someone makes a point of making it matter.

No Arcee pleeeeze.

EnergonCube wrote:

Dark Zarak wrote:
But I still don't want Arcee to be in the movie.

The reason is because they will probably have a limited number of new characters. And she will take away from better characters.

People get all caught up in the idea that Arcee is a girl and therefore should or shouldn't be in the movie, as if that was the reason.

The reason she should NOT be in the movie is because she is a token character. She has no personality, and she's quite frankly lame.


No Arcee for TF2.

I have been following thie thread for a while. The emotions that the humans have in this thread are very real. I am glad that transformers have alien emotions and are not bound by these problems.

When I was watching the Movie DVD that had CG pictures of the robots, they showed a pink one. Just seeing it got my hackles up (ok, so I am not anthropormorphic). It was pink and wussie! I am so glad they did not put it in the movie.

Here is my emotional response that I have consigned on to paper to convey my thoughts.

The story begins by a decepticon arriving to Earth after Starscream has left. It chooses one of my old trucks as its form. It is female and without any visible gender differences (or GM badging).



I am not an artist, but here is a sketch of its transformed mode. There is supposed to be a decepticon symbol on the hood scoop.



This decepticon has heard that a pink female autobot has recently arrived on Earth. First it is in vehicle mode and tries to take out the pink motorcycle with its "tailgater eliminator" (an M-16, not shown). Then it transforms and blasts it in half.
The sole purpose of this decepticon is to surface and then to disappear. It's motto is in line with the decepticon way of thinking. "There can be only one" (female robot on Earth).
(This motto is not related to the series Highlander)

Jazz had a bigger chest on the movie than any I would want to see on a transformer. I like to hear the male voices and listen to the banter between friends and foes, which by the way was mostly missing from the movie.
Gender shouldn't matter unless someone makes a point of making it matter.

No Arcee pleeeeze.

Thats the problem with many of the responses to this thread. it doesnt have to be ARCEE.
It could be a female transformer of any name.. or a completely new one.

Why the fixation on Arcee is beyond me. I gave 2.. 2 examples of Transformers not named Arcee. Not pink or a fru fru color.
They can be capable without being badass. And not weak so as to need saving from the big bad robots. But they would be capable at doing their Function.

Take real life for example.
I know for a fact I can kick someones ass and program a computer to make it do near what I want.I learned to fight on the street. I was trained in Taekwondo and Tai-chi. I was trained further by the US military. And even further in college.

BUT My brother knows Business like the back of his hand, can fight okay but isnt great. Has TONS of charisma, to get him out of lots spots..mainly with women.
Even though we're both great with the ladies, he's better at it than me.

a female robot could great at her function and suck elsewhere. Same with a male robot. She can be interesting if written well. without a ton of explanation. NOT everything needs to be explained.

I'll go so far as to saying this..

NO ARCEE FOR TRANSFORMER 2.. It could be any female Transformer.

Arcee_Firebolt wrote:
PS - Btw, Tazirai, I loved the freestyle scriptwrite you did. Great idea!

Thanks alot. I wish I could actually write the "normal way".
I used to drive teachers nuts when I was in school. i'd be assigned to write a story for homework. But i'd just write it in class, even though it was due the next week. I got Okay grades in english.. because I couldnt write outlines and such.
But she loved my stories ^^.

So my A's were always B's or C's.