Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

This was one battle we never saw take place, but I wish we did. It would have been *awesome.* So who you pickin'?

if megs makes it inside scorps, megs wins

I was referring to *comic* Scorponok (I thought the title made it clear ) and in the comics he is just a bit larger than Shockwave. But he is also more of a badass. Still a headmaster, though. I think if Megatron can hit him with a few shots from his fusion cannon, he can take him. But Scorponok is physically stronger, he could beat down Megs in hand-to-hand combat.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I was referring to *comic* Scorponok (I thought the title made it clear ) and in the comics he is just a bit larger than Shockwave. But he is also more of a badass. Still a headmaster, though. I think if Megatron can hit him with a few shots from his fusion cannon, he can take him. But Scorponok is physically stronger, he could beat down Megs in hand-to-hand combat.

not sure about physically stronger.

they both have a strength of 10, but scorps is bigger, so it should scale up?

Megatron Pwned Fortress Maximus. Hard to imagine he wouldn't do the same to Scorponok.....

DinobotKing wrote:Megatron Pwned Fortress Maximus. Hard to imagine he wouldn't do the same to Scorponok.....

Wasn't the same Megatron. That was Tank Megatron, a much more improved version. And G2. Fortress Maximus, however, did polish off Galvatron, also an improved and upgraded version of Megatron. So i think he could handle Megatron. And if he could, Scorponok definitely could. N_V, I do think Scorponok has the strength advantage, even if only by a little. However, he is more massive and taller, plus he has those big ass claws. Megatron's only chance is his fusion cannon.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

DinobotKing wrote:Megatron Pwned Fortress Maximus. Hard to imagine he wouldn't do the same to Scorponok.....

Wasn't the same Megatron. That was Tank Megatron, a much more improved version. And G2. Fortress Maximus, however, did polish off Galvatron, also an improved and upgraded version of Megatron. So i think he could handle Megatron. And if he could, Scorponok definitely could. N_V, I do think Scorponok has the strength advantage, even if only by a little. However, he is more massive and taller, plus he has those big ass claws. Megatron's only chance is his fusion cannon.

Then by your reasoning, Megatron would beat Galvatron.

I also see no evidence Scorponok was physically as strong as Megatron. My impression from the comics was Scorponok was more on the level of Shockwave, and probably would have eventually beaten Shockwave in a close battle.... but still a step below Megatron and Optimus.

I think that Megatron eventually takes this due to his firepower advantage.

He's also got the blackhole tap as a last resort.

DinobotKing wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

DinobotKing wrote:Megatron Pwned Fortress Maximus. Hard to imagine he wouldn't do the same to Scorponok.....

Wasn't the same Megatron. That was Tank Megatron, a much more improved version. And G2. Fortress Maximus, however, did polish off Galvatron, also an improved and upgraded version of Megatron. So i think he could handle Megatron. And if he could, Scorponok definitely could. N_V, I do think Scorponok has the strength advantage, even if only by a little. However, he is more massive and taller, plus he has those big ass claws. Megatron's only chance is his fusion cannon.

Then by your reasoning, Megatron would beat Galvatron.

Yes. Tank Megatron would. That's G2. I was referring to G1.

I also see no evidence Scorponok was physically as strong as Megatron. My impression from the comics was Scorponok was more on the level of Shockwave, and probably would have eventually beaten Shockwave in a close battle.... but still a step below Megatron and Optimus.

Well, have you read US Comics issues #72 and #73? Shockwave and Scorponok had an epic fight and Shockwave was about to hand Scorponok his ass before the Neo Knights showed up. Shockwave is definitely superior to Scorponok, and perhaps even Megatron. They only fought once when Megatron was weak and got his ass beat by ol' one-eye, but Prime beat Shockwave in a short battle if you remember US Comic issue #12.

As for Scorponok being physically stronger than G1 Megatron, OK, I will give you that it is debatable. Depends on POV I guess. They're both unstoppable asskicking machines from all the comic fights they have been in. But I was leaning towards Scorponok due to bulk and height.

In the end, based on the fights they have been in in the comics, I still think Scorponok can take Megatron, unless Megatron gets lucky and can kill Scorponok from a distance with his fusion cannon.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

DinobotKing wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

DinobotKing wrote:Megatron Pwned Fortress Maximus. Hard to imagine he wouldn't do the same to Scorponok.....

Wasn't the same Megatron. That was Tank Megatron, a much more improved version. And G2. Fortress Maximus, however, did polish off Galvatron, also an improved and upgraded version of Megatron. So i think he could handle Megatron. And if he could, Scorponok definitely could. N_V, I do think Scorponok has the strength advantage, even if only by a little. However, he is more massive and taller, plus he has those big ass claws. Megatron's only chance is his fusion cannon.

Then by your reasoning, Megatron would beat Galvatron.

Yes. Tank Megatron would. That's G2. I was referring to G1.

I also see no evidence Scorponok was physically as strong as Megatron. My impression from the comics was Scorponok was more on the level of Shockwave, and probably would have eventually beaten Shockwave in a close battle.... but still a step below Megatron and Optimus.

Well, have you read US Comics issues #72 and #73? Shockwave and Scorponok had an epic fight and Shockwave was about to hand Scorponok his ass before the Neo Knights showed up. Shockwave is definitely superior to Scorponok, and perhaps even Megatron. They only fought once when Megatron was weak and got his ass beat by ol' one-eye, but Prime beat Shockwave in a short battle if you remember US Comic issue #12.

As for Scorponok being physically stronger than G1 Megatron, OK, I will give you that it is debatable. Depends on POV I guess. They're both unstoppable asskicking machines from all the comic fights they have been in. But I was leaning towards Scorponok due to bulk and height.

In the end, based on the fights they have been in in the comics, I still think Scorponok can take Megatron, unless Megatron gets lucky and can kill Scorponok from a distance with his fusion cannon.

I think you're greatly overestimating a Cobra upgraded Megatron vs. a Unicron upgraded Megatron, but that's another debate.

And I suggest you re-read issues 72 and 73 because you have it backwards. Scorponok, despite being damaged by his base collapsing on him, was still about to hand Shockwave his ass before the Neo Knights arrived. When Shockwave realized he couldn't beat Scorponok one on one, he was counting on Circuit Breaker to cripple Scorponok enough so that he could easily take them both down. The Autobots intervened before Shockwave could fire a finishing shot. The battle left no doubt Scorponok was superior to Shockwave though. The battle between Megatron and Shockwave is irrelevant, because Megatron was severely weakened. I seem to recall even Shockwave admit that he couldn't defeat Megatron at full strength, but I don't have the time to find that reference....

DinobotKing wrote:I think you're greatly overestimating a Cobra upgraded Megatron vs. a Unicron upgraded Megatron, but that's another debate.

No overestimation. It happened on the pages of the books. Fortress Maximus beat the crap out of and killed Galvatron. (Issue #79, Last Autobot) Then Tank Megatron beat Max to within an inch of his life, and he barely had enough left for a last desperate attempt to take Megatron with him by breaching the Ark's anti-matter chamber. And even that didn't kill Megatron, whereas Max was wiped out. (G2 issue #2)

And I suggest you re-read issues 72 and 73 because you have it backwards. Scorponok, despite being damaged by his base collapsing on him, was still about to hand Shockwave his ass before the Neo Knights arrived. When Shockwave realized he couldn't beat Scorponok one on one, he was counting on Circuit Breaker to cripple Scorponok enough so that he could easily take them both down. The Autobots intervened before Shockwave could fire a finishing shot.

No. Absolutely not. I'll give you half of that. It was Prime who interfered (and I have the comic right in front of me) in order to save people from getting killed in their fight. At that point, the fight was far from over. Yes, Scorponok got the last punch in, but no way was Shockwave defeated. Far from it. Then the Neo Knights arrived, and Scorponok got attacked, and yes, weakened. This left Shockwave open to attack him, and this is what I was referring to earlier, with the final shot, which no doubt would have obliterated Scorponok. At that point Circuit-breaker recognized Shockwave as the one who crippled him, and struck Shockwave with everything she had. But even that didn't kill Shockwave.

The battle left no doubt Scorponok was superior to Shockwave though.

It left plenty of doubt. It was a draw due to interference. Shockwave has way more firepower, especially in space cannon mode. Scorponok doesn't even have guns in robot mode, except those flimsy shoulder lasers. I like Scorponok, but he just can't cut it against a ruthless killing machine like Shockwave.

The battle between Megatron and Shockwave is irrelevant, because Megatron was severely weakened. I seem to recall even Shockwave admit that he couldn't defeat Megatron at full strength, but I don't have the time to find that reference....

I agree that it is irrelevant, but Shockwave never admitted such a thing. He did say, during their "battle" in issue #6, that even at full strength Megatron couldn't beat him (which I agree with, unless he manages a direct hit with the black hole-powered fusion cannon).

But, back to the original topic, I still say Scorponok wins. Megatron had his better moments in the cartoon and in the beginning parts of the comic (save for the Back From the Dead story arc) before Scorponok arrived.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

DinobotKing wrote:I think you're greatly overestimating a Cobra upgraded Megatron vs. a Unicron upgraded Megatron, but that's another debate.

No overestimation. It happened on the pages of the books. Fortress Maximus beat the crap out of and killed Galvatron. (Issue #79, Last Autobot) Then Tank Megatron beat Max to within an inch of his life, and he barely had enough left for a last desperate attempt to take Megatron with him by breaching the Ark's anti-matter chamber. And even that didn't kill Megatron, whereas Max was wiped out. (G2 issue #2)

And I suggest you re-read issues 72 and 73 because you have it backwards. Scorponok, despite being damaged by his base collapsing on him, was still about to hand Shockwave his ass before the Neo Knights arrived. When Shockwave realized he couldn't beat Scorponok one on one, he was counting on Circuit Breaker to cripple Scorponok enough so that he could easily take them both down. The Autobots intervened before Shockwave could fire a finishing shot.

No. Absolutely not. I'll give you half of that. It was Prime who interfered (and I have the comic right in front of me) in order to save people from getting killed in their fight. At that point, the fight was far from over. Yes, Scorponok got the last punch in, but no way was Shockwave defeated. Far from it. Then the Neo Knights arrived, and Scorponok got attacked, and yes, weakened. This left Shockwave open to attack him, and this is what I was referring to earlier, with the final shot, which no doubt would have obliterated Scorponok. At that point Circuit-breaker recognized Shockwave as the one who crippled him, and struck Shockwave with everything she had. But even that didn't kill Shockwave.

The battle left no doubt Scorponok was superior to Shockwave though.

It left plenty of doubt. It was a draw due to interference. Shockwave has way more firepower, especially in space cannon mode. Scorponok doesn't even have guns in robot mode, except those flimsy shoulder lasers. I like Scorponok, but he just can't cut it against a ruthless killing machine like Shockwave.

The battle between Megatron and Shockwave is irrelevant, because Megatron was severely weakened. I seem to recall even Shockwave admit that he couldn't defeat Megatron at full strength, but I don't have the time to find that reference....

I agree that it is irrelevant, but Shockwave never admitted such a thing. He did say, during their "battle" in issue #6, that even at full strength Megatron couldn't beat him (which I agree with, unless he manages a direct hit with the black hole-powered fusion cannon).

But, back to the original topic, I still say Scorponok wins. Megatron had his better moments in the cartoon and in the beginning parts of the comic (save for the Back From the Dead story arc) before Scorponok arrived.

The G2 Megs vs. Galvatron battle was the original point, and that NEVER happened. In the Galv- Fort Max battle you refer to you fail to mention Galvatron was significantly damaged and rendered even more insane than usual from the crash (which apparently killed Shockwave btw) so Fort Max was able to take advantage and beat a weakened Galvatron into the ice. If you think G2 Megatron would defeat a full strength Galvatron, I think you would be in the vast minority.

As for the Scorponok-Shockwave battle, I think most unbiased observers who read through the comic would clearly see a weakened Scorponok was still winning before the Autobot/Neo Knight arrival. Hell, even the cover shows Scorponok pummeling Shockwave. The Knights didn't even bother with Shockwave initially, because Scorpy had already beat him down. Shockwave, smart as he is, realized his insurrection was a joke largely because he couldn't defeat a weakened Scorponok. He clearly stated his new plan to play possum until Scorponok was weak enough to strike again.

And as for the Megatron-Shockwave battle, again you are misremembering things. Megatron said at full strength Shockwave was less than him, which Shockwave didn't dispute (and the logical Shockwave likely would have refuted him if it weren't true). As you mentioned, Prime beat him fairly easily, and a full strength Megatron is pretty close to Prime.

Honestly, Shockwave is a tough Con no doubt but I don't know why you're elevating him to god-like status among the Decepticon ranks.

DinobotKing wrote:The G2 Megs vs. Galvatron battle was the original point, and that NEVER happened. In the Galv- Fort Max battle you refer to you fail to mention Galvatron was significantly damaged and rendered even more insane than usual from the crash (which apparently killed Shockwave btw) so Fort Max was able to take advantage and beat a weakened Galvatron into the ice.

OK, fine. The Galvatron we saw was the Galvatron who didn't have Unicron to back him up and keep him from going crazy. So the only way Galvatron can function properly is if he has Unicron intervening on his behalf? Of course no single Transformer would win that fight against Galvatron, not without use of the Matrix. So this whole point involving Galvatron is kind of moot.

If you think G2 Megatron would defeat a full strength Galvatron

With Unicron's help? No. Without it? Absolutely.

I think you would be in the vast minority.

Wouldn't mean I'm wrong. Just because I don't agree with the majority.

As for the Scorponok-Shockwave battle, I think most unbiased observers who read through the comic would clearly see a weakened Scorponok was still winning before the Autobot/Neo Knight arrival. Hell, even the cover shows Scorponok pummeling Shockwave. The Knights didn't even bother with Shockwave initially, because Scorpy had already beat him down. Shockwave, smart as he is, realized his insurrection was a joke largely because he couldn't defeat a weakened Scorponok. He clearly stated his new plan to play possum until Scorponok was weak enough to strike again.

We got a brand new thread for this.

And as for the Megatron-Shockwave battle, again you are misremembering things. Megatron said at full strength Shockwave was less than him, which Shockwave didn't dispute (and the logical Shockwave likely would have refuted him if it weren't true).

I just checked, and that is correct. My fault.

Honestly, Shockwave is a tough Con no doubt but I don't know why you're elevating him to god-like status among the Decepticon ranks.

No, he's not god-like. Just better than Scorponok.

Rodimus Prime wrote:No, he's not god-like. Just better than Scorponok.

And Megatron, and Galvatron, and the Fallen, and Unicron....

It's amazing Megatron was leader for any period of time with so many underlings who were apparently superior. It's a good thing Shockwave and Scorponok were so honorable (a common Decepticon trait) to let him have his power for so long... very decent of them!

DinobotKing wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:No, he's not god-like. Just better than Scorponok.

And Megatron, and Galvatron, and the Fallen, and Unicron....

It's amazing Megatron was leader for any period of time with so many underlings who were apparently superior. It's a good thing Shockwave and Scorponok were so honorable (a common Decepticon trait) to let him have his power for so long... very decent of them!

But yeah, Shockwave is my favorite decepticon from the comics. (This is a thread about Megatron and Scorponok!)

Several years too late, but here are my thoughts after reading the G1 comics:

If this was somehow forced to be a close-quarters fight, say in a caged arena, I think Scorponok would have a slight edge because his design is well-suited to grappling. He is slightly larger than Megatron and at least his equal in strength I'd say.

However, assuming this is a more normal scenario where Megatron has his Fusion Cannon, I think he'd have the edge. Megatron's superior firepower and sharper mind (Scorponok is very smart, but Megatron is top-level genius) would prevail in most fights.

I reckon if they fought 10 times Megatron would win 6 times and lose 4 times.

G1 Megatron took on freakin' Predaking while severely damaged, with ONE SHOT.

Combat Zero wrote:G1 Megatron took on freakin' Predaking while severely damaged, with ONE SHOT.

That’s true. I always wondered about that and how much of it was artistic license. When Megatron shot Omega it didn’t do anything at all. I think the writers just needed a quick way to wrap the story up.

G1 Expert wrote:

Combat Zero wrote:G1 Megatron took on freakin' Predaking while severely damaged, with ONE SHOT.

That’s true. I always wondered about that and how much of it was artistic license. When Megatron shot Omega it didn’t do anything at all. I think the writers just needed a quick way to wrap the story up.

Well that's mainly because Omega was built to be more badass than Predaking(but then again, Buzzsaw did shot him in an issue I don't know, which may be bad writing or something I don't know).

Scorponok is bigger and stronger than Megatron but he could be killed by one blast of M's fusion cannon.

S has multiple weapons, so he could keep M off balance and prevent him from lining up a shot.

A 100,000-volt bolt from S's tail would fry M's circuits permanently.

If S can get hold of M, he could crush him in a few seconds and probably rip him in half for good measure.

M might use his antimatter to win the fight if he has enough time to collect and deploy it.

S has an antigravity gun, which would send M careening into the stratosphere and probably into space. M has rockets and other means to push against the antigravity but the disorientation of his sudden levitation could allow S to strike deadly blows.

G1 M has a tiny gun mode, so he could hide somewhere and blast S in a sniper ambush.

Also, M might possibly 'do an Ant Man'. He could shrink to gun mode, lodge himself inside S and then expand to robot mode. With enough power, he could deliver fatal damage to S. However, S might be too tough to get hurt this way.

As supreme commander of the Decepticons, I presume that M has a kill switch to deactivate S in the event of treachery. As a devious fellow, S might have some secret contingency plan against M.

As a Headmaster, S would have enhanced intelligence, skill and reaction speed, making him even more formidable. However, if his partner Lord Zarak was hurt or killed, S would suffer greatly and be very vulnerable for a short while.

Personally, I think that S is unlikely to challenge M to single combat without very good reason. M is also unlikely to challenge S but we have seen that M is occasionally liable to bouts of mental instability, which can lead to unwise conflicts.