Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[sprockitz]

regular are the same as the red and purple and all 2 Skill. the green and black cost 1 more skill and do much more damage...on par with the 8 Skill dual bladed LS.

The Green an Black seem way OP for the requirement.

[Pathogen7]

regular are the same as the red and purple and all 2 Skill. the green and black cost 1 more skill and do much more damage...on par with the 8 Skill dual bladed LS.

The Green an Black seem way OP for the requirement.

Exactly! The black and green sabers are remarkably better than anything else with such low requirements, I've got some xp on some level one bots that I might put into skill but only if I can get my hands on some. Certainly half of the cons I see these days have them.

[Wingz]

I'd argue that they shouldn't be equip-able at this skill level, at all.

edit: I actually put an extra point in Skill to see what they were about when I first saw Bun-Bun's post about them being better by description, but they weren't even on the list. Normally, I see "0" for stock, but they simply weren't even listed. Is that a bug?

[Pathogen7]

The weapons page under the 'help' section has a complete listing of all the weapons, which you can use without having to put points into skill / firepower ...

https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... eapons.php

[Jack Hallows]

Normally, I see "0" for stock, but they simply weren't even listed. Is that a bug?

not a bug. weapons that aren't in stock don't show up in the store at all.

on a side note, in all honesty, i agree with Burn on this one. the fewer of them there are, the better. they are powerful weapons indeed, but their effects are also mitigated by a decent character build. as Kup would say: "The weapon doesn't make the mech."

[Bun-Bun]

The BeeGeeS aren't a bug in the normal sense but they certainly seem to be an error.

Back in the dark ages before I quit Tammuz and Caelus went through and balanced the weapons. Since then new weapons have been added (BeeGeeS being amoung them) & I don't think the were balanced properly.

Of course it's possible their "Incredible damage" is on the low end of the scale but still they're damn good weapons for their cost (both Energon & XP) to anyone under level 4.

[Psychout]

Bit of background for you guys; the lightsabers were added by (very popular) request back when we still had the ability to alter/create weapons. Sounders and I definitely don't have the ability now, and I'm pretty sure Burn no longer has it either.

The reason they may seem a bit overpowered to some is likely because they are a skill-based weapon, and skill is the dumpiest of dump stats. We're not expert game designers and we did our best to balance them, but we tried to make it so they were good at lower levels (up to 3-4) when the xp drained into Skill would have an effect on the important stats/tactics that could be chosen. Beyond that they were intended to be about the same as most other weapons with a slightly higher FRP requirement as FRP is a booster for a tactic and skill isn't.

Did it work? I don't know. That's for you guys to decide, but they are not (old school) DOL-Laser level of overpowered so I'm happy as they are.

In the interest of openness though, as I've got an unresettable team I cant use them.


edit: Woohoo! My name is blue again, I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeee!

[Bun-Bun]

Well if that was your intent then you succeeded. They are clearly the best weapons for those without a lot of xp to blow.
Now we just need a restock of about 100 each and we should be good

[Psychout]

Thats good to hear.

[Burn]

Bit of background for you guys; the lightsabers were added by (very popular) request back when we still had the ability to alter/create weapons. Sounders and I definitely don't have the ability now, and I'm pretty sure Burn no longer has it either.

Have you already forgotten Jacks Shovel?

I can create, delete, and restock weapons. It's about the only part of the panel that is fully functional.

edit: Woohoo! My name is blue again, I'm freeeeeeeeeeeeee!

Yeah, figured I'd better do it before someone gets his knickers in a knot again.

[Psychout]

Oh yeah, I had forgotten about that

[Omegatron.]

This may not be a bug but I'm curious about the retreat logic. In this mission the Autobots were down to two fighters, one with 18% health and the other with 70% health, while the Decepticons were down to a single fighter with 8% health. At that point the Autobots chose to retreat but surely since they had more fighters than the Decepticons, who all had more health than the Decepticons, the Decepticons should have retreated?

[Bun-Bun]

This may not be a bug but I'm curious about the retreat logic. In this mission the Autobots were down to two fighters, one with 18% health and the other with 70% health, while the Decepticons were down to a single fighter with 8% health. At that point the Autobots chose to retreat but surely since they had more fighters than the Decepticons, who all had more health than the Decepticons, the Decepticons should have retreated?

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain that when the mission time limit runs out the code just looks at the xp scores & assigns a winner that way (side that earned the least amount of xp retreats)

[Omegatron.]

This may not be a bug but I'm curious about the retreat logic. In this mission the Autobots were down to two fighters, one with 18% health and the other with 70% health, while the Decepticons were down to a single fighter with 8% health. At that point the Autobots chose to retreat but surely since they had more fighters than the Decepticons, who all had more health than the Decepticons, the Decepticons should have retreated?

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain that when the mission time limit runs out the code just looks at the xp scores & assigns a winner that way (side that earned the least amount of xp retreats)

I would have thought xp scores were determined by who wins. If not, what determines how much xp you earn?

[Bun-Bun]

This may not be a bug but I'm curious about the retreat logic. In this mission the Autobots were down to two fighters, one with 18% health and the other with 70% health, while the Decepticons were down to a single fighter with 8% health. At that point the Autobots chose to retreat but surely since they had more fighters than the Decepticons, who all had more health than the Decepticons, the Decepticons should have retreated?

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain that when the mission time limit runs out the code just looks at the xp scores & assigns a winner that way (side that earned the least amount of xp retreats)

I would have thought xp scores were determined by who wins. If not, what determines how much xp you earn?

There is an energon/xp bonus for those on the winning side but the base XP payout is calculated based on how much damage your character inflicts/repairs.

[Omegatron.]

This may not be a bug but I'm curious about the retreat logic. In this mission the Autobots were down to two fighters, one with 18% health and the other with 70% health, while the Decepticons were down to a single fighter with 8% health. At that point the Autobots chose to retreat but surely since they had more fighters than the Decepticons, who all had more health than the Decepticons, the Decepticons should have retreated?

I could be wrong but I'm fairly certain that when the mission time limit runs out the code just looks at the xp scores & assigns a winner that way (side that earned the least amount of xp retreats)

I would have thought xp scores were determined by who wins. If not, what determines how much xp you earn?

There is an energon/xp bonus for those on the winning side but the base XP payout is calculated based on how much damage your character inflicts/repairs.

Ok, that makes sense. The Decepticons won since they caused 112% damage and the Autobots only caused 92%. It just seems odd from the point of view of the player since the Autobots would have won outright if the battle lasted just slightly longer.

[Bun-Bun]

Welcome to HMW where everything is glitchy & common sense doesn't matter.

[sprockitz]

the side that retreats is the side that has sustained more net damage.

It's not completely illogical, in theory in a fight you don't know how close the other side is to being eliminated, so saying we are taking too many hits and not getting the job done, let's get outta here isn't unreasonable.

[Xenos Prime]

https://www.seibertron.com/heavymetalwa ... r_id=85281

21 upgrades. Level 4.

Either Calculator and Level Data are wrong in the Help section or Reformatting does not de-level like it used to.

[Psychout]

Unfortunately, you've hit the level cap. These were put in to encourage fair play and move characters up to the next level.

The idea is to prevent players from camping the lower level opposition and keep the game moving upwards, but the caps only kick in when the character is reset.

For reference,
Level cap amounts.
level 0 < 40,000)
level 1 < 350,000)
level 2 < 750,000)
level 3 < 2,000,000)
level 4 < 4,500,000)
level 5 < 10,000,000)
level 6 < 25,000,000)

These are all pretty high, and there really isn't a reason why any character should be above these.

[turbomagnus]

I think I remember something about those... added along with making Tactics count towards level because (many many years ago...) people were abusing tactics by maxing them out when they didn't and leaving their upgrades low, wasn't it?

[Psychout]

Your memory is better than mine, I'd forgotten about that! Not sure if it was at the same time or not, but yes that used to be a thing.

[Burn]

Tactics used to never count towards your level. Which, as said, a few people would max out, allowing them to stay at lower levels but cause a LOT of damage.

That was eventually changed and tactics counted towards your level and thus level 11's were born ... which brought about high level missions flooded with medics which resulted in battles that went on for an eternity and **** loads of XP generated. This eventually lead to it being discovered that a few of the players in the Top 25 (that's all that was shown on the high scores) were in fact duplicate accounts or account sharing. So time limits were added to missions to prevent endless missions, accounts were banned (a couple were allowed to continue ... they know who they are), the Top 25 was expanded, and eventually level caps were introduced because people were sick and tired of hearing about "level bullies".

[turbomagnus]

Now we know, and knowing is half the battle! (The other half is divided between red lasers and blue lasers.)

[Xenos Prime]

Thanks for the thorough and historical explanations. Exactly what I needed.