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I prefer them making new characters instead.

I guess no one has an opinion on this.

Or people are busy with Thanksgiving and stuff.

Burn wrote:Or people are busy with Thanksgiving and stuff.

Oh shoot. I wasn’t even thinking about that. Wrong time to post that.

Well, as far as the overall concept goes, I don't care. Not when it comes to Transformers and not when it comes to real life. As for specific characters, I thought IDW did Arcee fairly well, even though the revelation of her being transgender didn't happen until close to the end of the series. Unless I missed something earlier on. I also couldn't care any less about same-gender relationships between characters, but it did irk me a bit that the concept was kinda forced into the story of the Lost Light when it came to Chromedone and Rewind. It was somewhat obnoxious. Cyclonus and Tailgate was quite organic and non-intrusive, though, and they became 2 of my favorite characters. I just hate what happened to Tailgate.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Well, as far as the overall concept goes, I don't care. Not when it comes to Transformers and not when it comes to real life. As for specific characters, I thought IDW did Arcee fairly well, even though the revelation of her being transgender didn't happen until close to the end of the series. Unless I missed something earlier on. I also couldn't care any less about same-gender relationships between characters, but it did irk me a bit that the concept was kinda forced into the story of the Lost Light when it came to Chromedone and Rewind. It was somewhat obnoxious. Cyclonus and Tailgate was quite organic and non-intrusive, though, and they became 2 of my favorite characters. I just hate what happened to Tailgate.

I prefer if they make new characters, but gender bender doesn’t bother me that much.

Also OFT, is it possible for you to lock this facts-about-lithonians-p2088318.php#p2088318. Sorry if I ask here because I don’t know where to ask. I just want no further replies on the thread.

Burn wrote:Or people are busy with Thanksgiving and stuff.

Off topic: Hey where should I ask to get a thread lock? And who lock the threads? The admin or mods? That’s why I ask both because I don’t know who those that. And not this thread.

It depends how you define gender-bending.

If you mean nameslapping a new female character with a name from a literally who from G1, I see precisely zero problem. Nameslaps are nothing new after all.

If you mean taking an existing character concept from a previous series and putting them into a completely new one as the opposite sex, again, not a big deal. I'd avoid doing it with "big players" unless there's a good reason for it (like everyone is the opposite sex to usual in this universe) but random nobodies with no real fictional significance, why not?

If you mean actual in-universe sex changes for Transformers, I personally wouldn't bother. For one, the potential for someone getting bent out of shape over not having it depicted "correctly" is quite considerable. And for another, being mechanical life-forms, any and all drama or IRL allegories for the process kinda go out the window when you consider that any and all modifications to a TF's chassis are probably easy to perform and just as easy to reverse. If Double Clutch decides he wants to be a girl he just has to pop into Ratchet's workshop, get his fuselage re-adjusted and his gearbox replaced, and if she then decides that it kinda sucks (or she wants the gearbox back but nothing else) then she/he can do that. You could possibly have some fun with the concept of genderbending being comically easy for robots, mind you.

Black Hat wrote:It depends how you define gender-bending.

If you mean nameslapping a new female character with a name from a literally who from G1, I see precisely zero problem. Nameslaps are nothing new after all.

If you mean taking an existing character concept from a previous series and putting them into a completely new one as the opposite sex, again, not a big deal. I'd avoid doing it with "big players" unless there's a good reason for it (like everyone is the opposite sex to usual in this universe) but random nobodies with no real fictional significance, why not?

If you mean actual in-universe sex changes for Transformers, I personally wouldn't bother. For one, the potential for someone getting bent out of shape over not having it depicted "correctly" is quite considerable. And for another, being mechanical life-forms, any and all drama or IRL allegories for the process kinda go out the window when you consider that any and all modifications to a TF's chassis are probably easy to perform and just as easy to reverse. If Double Clutch decides he wants to be a girl he just has to pop into Ratchet's workshop, get his fuselage re-adjusted and his gearbox replaced, and if she then decides that it kinda sucks (or she wants the gearbox back but nothing else) then she/he can do that. You could possibly have some fun with the concept of genderbending being comically easy for robots, mind you.

Just voice change and/or only look like a girl in the face. I know what you are going to say, but a bot doesn’t need to look like a girl or a boy to be a girl or a boy.

Longlive Roddie wrote:

Black Hat wrote:
Just voice change and/or only look like a girl in the face. I know what you are going to say, but a bot doesn’t need to look like a girl or a boy to be a girl or a boy.

True enough, A robot doesn’t have to necessarily look masculine or feminine,

But traditionally speaking the majority of transformer designs have always featured heavy visual indications of Masculine and feminine appearances that at the very least heavily implied the gender Of the characters .Even without the input of the voice actors

It’s nice to see some opinions on gender benders.

Is G1 Laserbeak a boy or a girl?

Rodimus Prime wrote:Is G1 Laserbeak a boy or a girl?

That is a good question. I always assume that he was a boy.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Is G1 Laserbeak a boy or a girl?

I do believe others may have refered to Lazerbeak as “he” or “him” in the g1 cartoon

His tech spec certainly does

“Laserbeak takes pleasure in hunting his prey -- usually the straggling survivors of a battle. Noticeably not brave. Will run for safety if threatened. Flies at speeds up to 250mph. Uses two independently targetable laser cannons with extreme precision to get information from capitves. Shortage of ruby crystals that powers the lasers can panic his systems into shutting down.

TFs are the ultimate gender benders. They can change in seconds. Since they travel around the universe, they probably know about extra alien genders.

We can't complain if TFs bend their genders but we can question their motives. Why do they need to do it? There should be some purpose, even if it's frivolous.

snavej wrote:TFs are the ultimate gender benders. They can change in seconds. Since they travel around the universe, they probably know about extra alien genders.

We can't complain if TFs bend their genders but we can question their motives. Why do they need to do it? There should be some purpose, even if it's frivolous.

Pretty much this. I always quite liked the idea of the Transformers having started off as completely androgynous and inhuman in appearance, with more anthropomorphized elements (such as gender) being incorporated into them as they met alien races and thought "Hey, that's a cool idea", in effect through cultural osmosis. As the millennia crawled by and the race evolved, this perhaps manifested as actual spark-level differences between male and female Transformers.

I think the biggest no-no with gender bending shenanigans in TF fiction is trying to draw IRL parallels. A race of mechanical aliens with biology completely divorced from our own and the ability to completely rebuild or even outright replace their own bodies is just not going to work for allegories of human society, unless you make great efforts to humanize them (which has its own share of problems).

If you did want to give some actual tangible differences between male and female TFs for whatever reason, without wishing to repeat what I've already prattled on about a thousand times before, my headcanon for TF reproduction is entirely tied to the spark, with "male" and "female" sparks existing and one of each being required in order to reproduce. External gender is entirely cosmetic and mutable depending on the whims of the individual, whilst "true" gender is fixed. Whilst this has absolutely no impact on how a Transformer might be constructed or present themselves, most choose to have forms and voices that match their gender and some personality traits are more common to one gender over the other. That said, in the cases of TFs with entirely "functional" bodies, sexual characteristics will probably be borderline non-existent. For example, ROTF Demolishor would look more or less exactly the same if he was a girl, because his body is designed purely for function.

Black Hat wrote:

snavej wrote:TFs are the ultimate gender benders. They can change in seconds. Since they travel around the universe, they probably know about extra alien genders.

We can't complain if TFs bend their genders but we can question their motives. Why do they need to do it? There should be some purpose, even if it's frivolous.

Pretty much this. I always quite liked the idea of the Transformers having started off as completely androgynous and inhuman in appearance, with more anthropomorphized elements (such as gender) being incorporated into them as they met alien races and thought "Hey, that's a cool idea", in effect through cultural osmosis. As the millennia crawled by and the race evolved, this perhaps manifested as actual spark-level differences between male and female Transformers.

I think the biggest no-no with gender bending shenanigans in TF fiction is trying to draw IRL parallels. A race of mechanical aliens with biology completely divorced from our own and the ability to completely rebuild or even outright replace their own bodies is just not going to work for allegories of human society, unless you make great efforts to humanize them (which has its own share of problems).

If you did want to give some actual tangible differences between male and female TFs for whatever reason, without wishing to repeat what I've already prattled on about a thousand times before, my headcanon for TF reproduction is entirely tied to the spark, with "male" and "female" sparks existing and one of each being required in order to reproduce. External gender is entirely cosmetic and mutable depending on the whims of the individual, whilst "true" gender is fixed. Whilst this has absolutely no impact on how a Transformer might be constructed or present themselves, most choose to have forms and voices that match their gender and some personality traits are more common to one gender over the other. That said, in the cases of TFs with entirely "functional" bodies, sexual characteristics will probably be borderline non-existent. For example, ROTF Demolishor would look more or less exactly the same if he was a girl, because his body is designed purely for function.

Them male and female by their spark. I like that.

I like to think that transformers pick up genders from organic life.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Well, as far as the overall concept goes, I don't care. Not when it comes to Transformers and not when it comes to real life. As for specific characters, I thought IDW did Arcee fairly well, even though the revelation of her being transgender didn't happen until close to the end of the series. Unless I missed something earlier on. I also couldn't care any less about same-gender relationships between characters, but it did irk me a bit that the concept was kinda forced into the story of the Lost Light when it came to Chromedone and Rewind. It was somewhat obnoxious. Cyclonus and Tailgate was quite organic and non-intrusive, though, and they became 2 of my favorite characters. I just hate what happened to Tailgate.

Arcee's gender thing happened from the start of her introduction. It's part of her origin.
The concept at the time was that the Transformers in the idw comics were genderless (the pronouns were still male though, due to a lack of actual gender neutral pronouns). Arcee was part of an experiment to introduce gender into the previously genderless species, her mind broke because it couldn't handle this unatrual state.
There was a backlash at the time because a lot felt it was transphobic and sexist since turning female made Arcee a psychotic killing machine.

MTMTE and RID introduced the fact that Transformers were actually a gendered species and that the female members of the species were split off, meaning that Arcee wasn't actually genderless, but male, making her trans.

Personally I liked the original concept, but I admit the fact that male pronouns were used just made it not work. I would much prefer it if there were genderless pronouns that could be used, that don't sound silly, the designs tweaked to look less male and actually have the Transformers start out as genderless. And then having them adapt to organic life more and more changing their traits to reflect hwat they like from organic lifeforms they meet.

Hell, it could lead to interesting concepts of characters adopting identities and traits because they feel connected to them. Would also give a new reason and origin to PRetender technology.

Heck, it could lead to maybe Ratchet adopting a more feminine look and pronouns, as a nod to his original concept for the 80s toyline and comics. I would be down for that.

Dead Metal wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Well, as far as the overall concept goes, I don't care. Not when it comes to Transformers and not when it comes to real life. As for specific characters, I thought IDW did Arcee fairly well, even though the revelation of her being transgender didn't happen until close to the end of the series. Unless I missed something earlier on. I also couldn't care any less about same-gender relationships between characters, but it did irk me a bit that the concept was kinda forced into the story of the Lost Light when it came to Chromedone and Rewind. It was somewhat obnoxious. Cyclonus and Tailgate was quite organic and non-intrusive, though, and they became 2 of my favorite characters. I just hate what happened to Tailgate.

Arcee's gender thing happened from the start of her introduction. It's part of her origin.
The concept at the time was that the Transformers in the idw comics were genderless (the pronouns were still male though, due to a lack of actual gender neutral pronouns). Arcee was part of an experiment to introduce gender into the previously genderless species, her mind broke because it couldn't handle this unatrual state.
There was a backlash at the time because a lot felt it was transphobic and sexist since turning female made Arcee a psychotic killing machine.

MTMTE and RID introduced the fact that Transformers were actually a gendered species and that the female members of the species were split off, meaning that Arcee wasn't actually genderless, but male, making her trans.

Personally I liked the original concept, but I admit the fact that male pronouns were used just made it not work. I would much prefer it if there were genderless pronouns that could be used, that don't sound silly, the designs tweaked to look less male and actually have the Transformers start out as genderless. And then having them adapt to organic life more and more changing their traits to reflect hwat they like from organic lifeforms they meet.

Hell, it could lead to interesting concepts of characters adopting identities and traits because they feel connected to them. Would also give a new reason and origin to PRetender technology.

Heck, it could lead to maybe Ratchet adopting a more feminine look and pronouns, as a nod to his original concept for the 80s toyline and comics. I would be down for that.

+1

Like I said, I might have missed something from earlier. I didn't pick up IDW until the soft reboot in 2012 with RiD and MTMTE. I never went back to read the earlier stuff, except for AHM. Thanks for the info.

I totally forgot I made this thread.

I don’t hate gender bender characters, I’m okay with RBA Whirl, but I just prefer them creating new characters.

Maybe if done right, I guess I would not mind.

Dead Metal wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Well, as far as the overall concept goes, I don't care. Not when it comes to Transformers and not when it comes to real life. As for specific characters, I thought IDW did Arcee fairly well, even though the revelation of her being transgender didn't happen until close to the end of the series. Unless I missed something earlier on. I also couldn't care any less about same-gender relationships between characters, but it did irk me a bit that the concept was kinda forced into the story of the Lost Light when it came to Chromedone and Rewind. It was somewhat obnoxious. Cyclonus and Tailgate was quite organic and non-intrusive, though, and they became 2 of my favorite characters. I just hate what happened to Tailgate.

Arcee's gender thing happened from the start of her introduction. It's part of her origin.
The concept at the time was that the Transformers in the idw comics were genderless (the pronouns were still male though, due to a lack of actual gender neutral pronouns). Arcee was part of an experiment to introduce gender into the previously genderless species, her mind broke because it couldn't handle this unatrual state.
There was a backlash at the time because a lot felt it was transphobic and sexist since turning female made Arcee a psychotic killing machine.

MTMTE and RID introduced the fact that Transformers were actually a gendered species and that the female members of the species were split off, meaning that Arcee wasn't actually genderless, but male, making her trans.

Personally I liked the original concept, but I admit the fact that male pronouns were used just made it not work. I would much prefer it if there were genderless pronouns that could be used, that don't sound silly, the designs tweaked to look less male and actually have the Transformers start out as genderless. And then having them adapt to organic life more and more changing their traits to reflect hwat they like from organic lifeforms they meet.

Hell, it could lead to interesting concepts of characters adopting identities and traits because they feel connected to them. Would also give a new reason and origin to PRetender technology.

Heck, it could lead to maybe Ratchet adopting a more feminine look and pronouns, as a nod to his original concept for the 80s toyline and comics. I would be down for that.

Sorry for the reply.
I think non binary people use the word they. I’m surprised Hasbro haven’t use that. And about Ratchet look like a girl. I down for that too as long as it is not too female looking. I just don’t like it when Transformers are overly sexualized. Male or female.