The Energon Pub

[ZeroWolf]

I don't think rey is a Mary-sue. ..yet. see, we have only seen the beginning of her story and while it's clear she's a prodigy that's all we know. There is still two films left, that's more then enough to give us background information and further explore reys status. If by the end of the trilogy she is fantastic for no reason. ..then she's a Mary-sue.

Also rar, you had a problem with guardians 1? A fantastic origin film for a team not many cared for originally.

Also the prequels will be made fun of eternally, no worries there.

[RAR]

I really didn't want the Mary Sue Talk in here for anyone who shows up here after 25th Jan 2016 I didn't put it here the moderator moved it here.
I'd rather of had a generic topic about the Mary Sue principle including Star Wars as well as other things than potentially derail this thread with that concept.

But since it's here I'll just say what I've said before which is if it turns out that Rey was previously trained and has been mind wiped and dumped on Jakku by friend or foe then most of the criticisms of her "knowing to much to soon" evaporate.

If however they just gloss over it and never bring it up then I think she will be the poster girl for the Mary Sue principle for decades to come.

[RAR]

I really didn't want the Mary Sue Talk in here for anyone who shows up here after 25th Jan 2016 I didn't put it here the moderator moved it here.
I'd rather of had a generic topic about the Mary Sue principle including Star Wars as well as other things than potentially derail this thread with that concept.

But since it's here I'll just say what I've said before which is if it turns out that Rey was previously trained and has been mind wiped and dumped on Jakku by friend or foe then most of the criticisms of her "knowing to much to soon" evaporate.

If however they just gloss over it and never bring it up then I think she will be the poster girl for the Mary Sue principle for decades to come.

Also RAR, you had a problem with Guardians 1? A fantastic origin film for a team not many cared for originally.

No - I have no issues with it (aside from the crap villains and the non-Character of the Collector) - did I imply otherwise ?

I am however concerned about the Sequel building on what they started - I don't want another situation like Iron Man & Thor where the Sequels don't go anywhere.

[ZeroWolf]

Sorry, I just got that impression from what you said about trusting Disney. Though it's more about trusting the people Disney put on the movies.

[RAR]

I was just implying that I will have more confidence they know what they are doing at Disney if they to quote Kylo Ren "Finish what they started" if there is some good signs in the next batch of Marvel Movies then I will be a bit more hopeful, if there isn't then I may start to get increasingly concerned.

I'm already rolling my eyes at statements that "Star Wars" is being done for the fans - when it seems it is done more for the very people who are not fans in any real sense of the word but more those who have some nostalgic attachment to the Movies from their childhood or the new Audience they want to pick up.

I have no objection at all in wanting to pick up a new Audience but Captain America : Winter Soldier is a cause for concern as there was a lot of well frankly "stupid people" saying some very stupid things about that Movie while those who had the ability to tie their own shoes - were able to see the deeper aspects in the Movies occasional flaw.

Where as conversely I had to dig pretty deep to find very many positives in Age of Ultron beyond "it's all right I suppose" where as some people really hate that movie and some like it - I think like 007 Spectre it falls down due to expectation in comparison to what they expected to see after seeing the previous Movies.

I do thus retain a concern that Episode 8 will not live up to expectations for a number of potential reasons.

1) Disney really might be dumb enough to just ape the Empire Strikes Back.
2) They have a lot of Back-pedalling to do to get the people who left in disgust back on board.
3) Locations - they need new Locations - especially if Rogue One is partly on Coruscant
4) If they shoehorn in a Poe & Rey Romance that could be iffy - be careful with that - I doubt they are brave enough to make Poe and Finn a Couple - I think the internet would break if they did. Best to leave that idea to Tumblr I suspect.

So I suppose if you like certain marvel Movie then them being good to you will be seen as a positive sign - if not then as a negative one.

All I can say I suppose on this is if they do the same thing again with Indiana Jones they need to be a whole lot more subtle about it.

Force Awakens as it stands is terrific if you are a 14 Year old Girl - it's ideal material for them - great for the YA crowd, but boy it is disenfranchising for anyone "Old school" who was expecting something other than a stealth remake.

[ZeroWolf]

Your assuming at there aren't you? Also everyone I spoke to loved winter soldier and said it solidly built on the foundations of the first one. And while I know Age of Ultron had its flaws, I found much to enjoy.

Also Disney should be careful going after fans that have jumped ship as they could ask for nonsensical ideas to keep it in line with what they believe it should be when not only is that incredibly selfish but silly as everyone interprets things differently, movies more so.

I'm coming off sounding like I'm having a go but it's not my intention so sorry if I stray from being civil.

[RAR]

Your assuming at there aren't you? Also everyone I spoke to loved winter soldier and said it solidly built on the foundations of the first one. And while I know Age of Ultron had its flaws, I found much to enjoy.

Also Disney should be careful going after fans that have jumped ship as they could ask for nonsensical ideas to keep it in line with what they believe it should be when not only is that incredibly selfish but silly as everyone interprets things differently, movies more so.

I'm coming off sounding like I'm having a go but it's not my intention so sorry if I stray from being civil.

Yes that is why I was using Winter Soldier as a positive example - I'm as mystified as you why some people don't like it - but there are some who think it's terrible that said there is always going to be some Confused Matthew type reactions to something if someone find something that bugs them - in my case it's the lack of all but 3 recognisable Aliens, Empire had an excuse for that in it's context ROTJ has some carry overs - but I think as I've said before the context we have here with Maz's Place and The Resistance running about there is plenty of places to use existing ones and they don't - I'm not ruling out that I missed some - so if there some in the art books please some one prove me wrong as I WANT to be proved wrong on that.

I don't have unreasonable desires - I just know what Star Wars is (in a broad sense) and I'm thinking they are tettering around the edges of it rather than being up to the knees in it, It's dangerously close to being a Star Wars Knock off - heck battle Beyond the Stars has more original content in it and that is explicitly a Star Wars Knock off.

Yes I realise I'm being seemingly contradictory accusing the movie of being to template like and also complaining about the lack of pre-existing alien races.

The Best way to describe my current feeling (which may change) is That I See Star Wars as such a "Big thing" (or it was until Disney spayed it) a Universe if you will.

I think Disney might be focused (as a matter of corporate policy) on marketing characters than they are on world building.

So when I look at The Force Awakens yes I can complement it on it's Characters and most of the pacing editing and photography is good.

But then I have the horrible thought that it's "Just a Movie", now there is nothing wrong with a Sci Fi Movie that revolves around Character (The Last Starfighter for one) but some others the interest is as much in the world as it is in the people - I.e. Blade Runner or Tron.

So I guess what I'm asking for is to be engaged by the world & the characters.

By using a Desert Planet and Forests and not really setting them up in any real way you don't really notice them.

Lets use an example : Cloud City - we see a bit of it in the 1980's original but Lucas decided we needed to get more of a feel for the place so he explicitly added some new backgrounds, and set up shots.

Or take Hoth you really get a feel for the place a Rebel base is such an inhospitable place shows the rebels are on the back foot that they have to go somewhere so difficult to live on.

Or even the simple thing like people being on the streets doing things in Mos Eisley, or even the jawa's themselves - they are essentially the "Tinker" archetype from Fantasy, they connect the settlements they make the place seem bigger. you feel that Tatooine isn't an empty desert - it has stuff going on it - it and the more we see it the more fleshed out it gets.

Tatooine feels like an actual place to me as does Coruscant.

Jakku, Nope. It is a hard thing to put across what I am saying here I suppose but I can use another analogy - Take Wayne Mannor - I never felt Wayne Manor was a real place in the Nolan Movies or indeed Gotham either I suppose - it just looks like Detroit or Chicago to me.

Where as it does seem all much more proper in Batman Begins - So I guess I'm asking for a sense of place in the Movies.

Sometimes it's the right thing to do to have a character walk from one place to another and not have a simple cut. 'i Robot' might be a reasonable example of someone trying to give you a sense of the world too I guess.

To give a specific Example - when Poe and Finn meet again - there is lots of interesting things going on behind them but you can't see any of it.

Where as when Dekker is chasing down Replicants in Blade Runner you FEEL the place is a real place.


Am I asking for to much "Shrugs" maybe I'm being picky - maybe I just like that feel for a world - even less than brilliant Movies can do that well like Dick Tracy or The Shadow.

Some might say that is ALL the LOTR movie are. I don't want that much of it though.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

I wasn't aware I had to counter-critique, offer apology to or acceptance of all replies before making a new post on another subject.?

well now you know

anyway, the only answer i was, and am still hoping for was about your complaint about leia being called "general leia".

[RAR]

Since this is a General Star Wars Thread now I thought this would be interesting to post :

[RAR]

I really wish the edit button was a different colour 'Sigh'

Sorry about the double post but so I don't totally waste it .. I'll add a link

It would be nice to see some more variety of craft in the future :

http://z13.invisionfree.com/Crescendo/ar/t129.htm

The above site provides some general ideas and the recent Force Awakens Art Books had some neat stuff too - some of which I hope shows up.

The Rebellion really needs a heavy Fighter or light Bomber for a start not to mention something like the assault shuttle classes the Empire Uses... though I suppose the Transport Leia shows up in is something along those lines... though it does not look terribly heavily armed to me.

[Shadowman]

Force Awakens as it stands is terrific if you are a 14 Year old Girl - it's ideal material for them - great for the YA crowd, but boy it is disenfranchising for anyone "Old school" who was expecting something other than a stealth remake.

I'm not a 14 year old girl, and I loved the Force Awakens, much as I loved the original trilogy when I saw it back in '95 on an old-ass VHS.

[Burn]

Force Awakens as it stands is terrific if you are a 14 Year old Girl - it's ideal material for them - great for the YA crowd, but boy it is disenfranchising for anyone "Old school" who was expecting something other than a stealth remake.

I'm not a 14 year old girl, and I loved the Force Awakens, much as I loved the original trilogy when I saw it back in '95 on an old-ass VHS.

What he said. I can't remember when I first saw it though.

[ZeroWolf]

Force Awakens as it stands is terrific if you are a 14 Year old Girl - it's ideal material for them - great for the YA crowd, but boy it is disenfranchising for anyone "Old school" who was expecting something other than a stealth remake.

I'm not a 14 year old girl, and I loved the Force Awakens, much as I loved the original trilogy when I saw it back in '95 on an old-ass VHS.

What he said. I can't remember when I first saw it though.

I remember getting a vhs tape from a car boot sale fairly early on (having a stab in the dark about 1990 time when my earliest memories come from at the moment. My brother then bought a box set a couple of years later that I watched which was a wide screen edition that had trailers for the old outer limits series and the original lost in space series on them.

Thanks to my brothers interest I grew up surrounded by star wars (ah memories of playing with all the vintage toys before I got my own when the toy line relaunched with a strangely buff mark hamill

[RAR]

I mentioned the "14 Year Old Girl" idea as someone who was way way meaner to the movie than I ever am was accused of "Taking it away from the 14 Year old Girls". which I found amusing for some reason. Besides 11 is more accurate I would Guess Rey is who you move onto after an interest in Ariel or Jasmine and the like.

Speaking of which I wonder if there is any recognisable similarities between Final Fantasy's Lighting and Rey, I know some accuse her of being like the girl in the Resident Evil Movies. (Not sure how that is intended to be an insult - but hey "Internets")

[Shadowman]

I mentioned the "14 Year Old Girl" idea as someone who was way way meaner to the movie than I ever am was accused of "Taking it away from the 14 Year old Girls". which I found amusing for some reason. Besides 11 is more accurate I would Guess Rey is who you move onto after an interest in Ariel or Jasmine and the like.

I am a 26 year old man and I liked the Force Awakens. Don't be a jackass.

Speaking of which I wonder if there is any recognisable similarities between Final Fantasy's Lighting and Rey)

There isn't.

[Ironhidensh]

I mentioned the "14 Year Old Girl" idea as someone who was way way meaner to the movie than I ever am was accused of "Taking it away from the 14 Year old Girls". which I found amusing for some reason. Besides 11 is more accurate I would Guess Rey is who you move onto after an interest in Ariel or Jasmine and the like.

I am a 26 year old man and I liked the Force Awakens. Don't be a jackass.

I'm a 35 year old man (burn is even older, I think he uses a walker now) and I freaking loved the movie. So has anybody I've talked to who has seen it, aside from you, rar. The franchise is in very good hands.

Earlier you said that you can't understand why some people dislike The Winter Soldier, and that's how we feel about you right now.

Look, I don't mean to sound like a penis, or maybe I do, its very early, I hadn't had my coffee yet, and I'm very cranky. Anyway, your complaints are starting to feel repetive and kinda whiney. I like talking about Star Wars, but you are ruining this thread, man. The EU is gone, it just is. You have to take all of your expectations from the past and put them aside. I did, too. Once you do that, you'll be much happier.

Grand Admiral Thrawn is gone, it's time to let him go.

[ZeroWolf]

Ironhidesh@ I was beginning to work on the assumption that Rar was trying to convince himself that he disliked it.

[Burn]

I honestly have no idea what point he was trying to make, I just see a massive wall of text and keep scrolling. You guys quote and respond the interesting bits.

[Ironhidensh]

I honestly have no idea what point he was trying to make, I just see a massive wall of text and keep scrolling. You guys quote and respond the interesting bits.

Yeah, you ju st stay on your rocking chair, old timer.

[Stuartmaximus]

(burn is even older, I think he uses a walker now)

images(1).jpg (17.39 KiB) Viewed 7150 times

[Ironhidensh]

Okay, now I feel bad and childish for saying that.

[Burn]

(burn is even older, I think he uses a walker now)

images(1).jpg

The stability on those things are terrible. Little bit of string around them and down you go!

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

(burn is even older, I think he uses a walker now)

images(1).jpg

The stabilty on those things are terrible. Little bit of string around them and down you go!

like an AT-AT WALKER

[Shadowman]

(burn is even older, I think he uses a walker now)

images(1).jpg

The stabilty on those things are terrible. Little bit of string around them and down you go!

like an AT-AT WALKER

...

Yes, that was the joke.

[sto_vo_kor_2000]

(burn is even older, I think he uses a walker now)

images(1).jpg

The stabilty on those things are terrible. Little bit of string around them and down you go!

like an AT-AT WALKER

...

Yes, that was the joke.

i know

i intended to put a funny face with that but it failed to post