Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Posted: **Wed Jun 08, 2011 2:32 pm**

So... Kiss Players. One of the most controversial lines of the Transformers series ever produced. It's toys (the robots, that is) were decent enough, since they were mostly Binaltech/Alternator molds, G1 cassette molds, and Japanese Beast Wars Egg Beast molds.

The fiction however, is where things got (to put it politely) disturbing. The two story arcs that lay beneath its creepy exterior were genuinely kinda interesting and intriguing (once you got passed to gross stuff), but it's one of those series that is VERY hard to get into because just how hideous it appears at first glance (particularly the first story arc).

Therefore, suppose it were to be given a complete revamped overhaul to make it more PG-rated. No hentai, no innuendos, no pornographic imagery whatsoever. In order for something like this to work, what sort of specific changes would you see being done to make this less grotesque and more appealing?

Here's some of my thoughts:

Like I said above, all risqué material would be gone for good. No porn, period.
The name and gimmick of the series would have to be changed. No human-to-robot kissing, period. Therefore, the name would have to be different from "Kiss Players". But as for how the characters could retain some of the mystical aspects of this gimmick, just make all the girls Powermasters. Not Godmasters, but Powermasters.
All the girls would be redrawn to look their proper age. Mid-to-late teen looks instead of underage looks.
The Legion would all be redesigned to look safe for children, while still being scary-looking. No phallic tongues (or even no tongues whatsoever).
Kiss Players Position would need less editing, but it too would need the same removal of unwanted material.
Ringo would need a complete character overhaul. She's psycho. Make her into the annoying comic relief butt monkey. That's a much more dignified role than the sick twisted person she already is.

What else could be changed to make it PG-rated?

Posted: **Wed Jun 08, 2011 4:05 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:Therefore, suppose it were to be given a complete revamped overhaul to make it G-rated. No hentai, no innuendos, no pornographic imagery whatsoever. In order for something like this to work, what sort of specific changes would you see being done to make this less grotesque and more appealing?

What else could be changed to make it G-rated?

Fanservice its obrigatory 8-}

Just kidding

Well,since its based on the Alternator/Binaltech toy they could have a focus on the humans and Transformers as partners,like a human alliance?

Posted: **Thu Jun 09, 2011 11:56 pm**

I'd love to see a few transformers characters from different alternate universes use some of the older Alternators/Binaltech toys for some awesome recolors.

Like Having CR/Rid Speedbreaker/Sideburn use the Sunstreaker mold.

Having movie verse Barricade use the prowl mold.

Having Beastwars tigertron & cheetor use the liscensed Jaguar Ravage toy mold.

having the AEC Hotshot character use a alternator/bt That closesly matches his designs in both modes.

1985 Steeljaw recolor using the corvette ravage alternator toy.

hasbro/takara could take all the kiss players human tiny figures & Human allegiance tiny human figures & repaint them into humans that match the above transformers recolors ideas of mine.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:07 am**

TulioDude wrote:Fanservice its obrigatory Just kidding

Fanservice =/= porn. And what this story has is porn.

TulioDude wrote:Well,since its based on the Alternator/Binaltech toy they could have a focus on the humans and Transformers as partners,like a human alliance?

The real story already does that. Each Kiss Player is partnered with a Transformer (be it an Autorooper or Optimus/Rodimus) that they merge with.

But that image you put is of the Binaltech Asterisk line, which is more along the lines of what what you were thinking with you Human Alliance idea. With this story, however, Optimus and Marissa are fugitives on the run, and the Earth Defense Command is a corrupt organization that has removed all Transformers off the planet.

deathy wrote:I'd love to see a few transformers characters from different alternate universes use some of the older Alternators/Binaltech toys for some awesome recolors.

Like Having CR/Rid Speedbreaker/Sideburn use the Sunstreaker mold.

Having movie verse Barricade use the prowl mold.

Having Beastwars tigertron & cheetor use the liscensed Jaguar Ravage toy mold.

having the AEC Hotshot character use a alternator/bt That closesly matches his designs in both modes.

1985 Steeljaw recolor using the corvette ravage alternator toy.

hasbro/takara could take all the kiss players human tiny figures & Human allegiance tiny human figures & repaint them into humans that match the above transformers recolors ideas of mine.

There were only three Kiss Players toys that used Binaltech/Alternator toy molds: Optimus, Rodimus, and Autorooper. The rest were G1 cassettes and JBW Egg Beasts.

I'm talking about keeping the same story and characters intact, but removing/revamping all the bad stuff to make it all more G-rated.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:32 am**

So you want to have Kiss Players revamped, by removing everything that defines Kiss Players even the gimmick and concept. You know that wouldn't be a revamped Kiss Players, it would be a completely different series.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 7:46 am**

Ringo has to stay and should be the villain. She should also be some kind of crazed yandere.

I don't think the series needs to be G-rated. PG13 is fine. I would like to see it framed as a complete deconstruction of the Transformers mythos. Keep the weird. Make it uncomfortable. But have one side pointing that out. (kind of like Bakemonogatari does with anime or how Madoka does deconstruction)

These pictures are relevant to this discussion:

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 10:03 am**

Dead Metal wrote:So you want to have Kiss Players revamped, by removing everything that defines Kiss Players even the gimmick and concept. You know that wouldn't be a revamped Kiss Players, it would be a completely different series.

I agree,This sounds similar to what Simon Furman wants to do with marvel TF G-1 Issue #81. simon wants to forget G-2 happened. simon wants to leave out some TF G-1 marvel comics events.

Basically taking stuff away leads on the border line of a "What if" or spiralling stuff out in a alternate universe/reality.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:41 am**

I agree with the other posters. Once you change too much stuff around with KISS PLAYERS, then it stops being KP and starts being something else.

But I think I can come up with something to make it less objectinable:

1. Unfortunately, the risque elements are a theme of KP. What I would change around would be the looks of the girls, and at least have them looklike they're in their 20s-30s. This removes some of the 'ick' factor at least. (This is in agreement with another poster, they look too young.)

2. The main storyline is fine, so I won't change anything there.

3. I would also get rid (like another poster said) of the Legions/Megatrons phallic 'tongues' and replace them with nothing/something else. But if you want to make them stay scary, then they have to keep some horror element and I would give them a long tentacle-looking tongue. When they want to feed, they just slide this tongue down some victim's throat and digest/drain their body fluids from the inside out. At the end the victim is a dried up husk, and the Legion looks like he had a full meal.

4. When the girls emerge from their robot partners, they shouldn't be covered in a white 'slime' and they shouldn't be nearly naked. There should just be a brief white flash and then you see a unconscious fully dressed girl lying on the ground, no slime included.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:14 pm**

Counterpunch wrote:Ringo has to stay and should be the villain. She should also be some kind of crazed yandere.

I don't think the series needs to be G-rated. PG13 is fine. I would like to see it framed as a complete deconstruction of the Transformers mythos. Keep the weird. Make it uncomfortable. But have one side pointing that out. (kind of like Bakemonogatari does with anime or how Madoka does deconstruction)

These pictures are relevant to this discussion:

OMG,I dream of the day Hasbro releases transformers with the tiny human females in these pics from "counterpunch".

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 12:55 pm**

Counterpunch wrote:

Wow, she could totally crush his head between her boobs.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 2:02 pm**

wait, wasn't Binaltech Sunstreaker and 1 other figure part of Kiss Players before they made an official switch to KP packaging?

If they can make something funny and won't make me want to gouge my eyes out with blatant attempts at child pornography then I might look into the series, but only after they do soemthing that will actually be popular.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 4:28 pm**

Dead Metal wrote:So you want to have Kiss Players revamped, by removing everything that defines Kiss Players even the gimmick and concept. You know that wouldn't be a revamped Kiss Players, it would be a completely different series.

Exactly. A thorough enough overhaul to make a cleaner series that's only "based" on the story of the dirty series.

The story and all the characters would be the same in a broad sense. But all the specific attributes of the story and characters that are considered grotesque would be removed and/or altered. Kinda like how the Armada cartoon and Armada comics both told the same basic story with the same basic characters, but were drastically different when it came to the specifics of each.

Counterpunch wrote:Ringo has to stay and should be the villain. She should also be some kind of crazed yandere.

Only if she keeps her body to herself. [-(

Counterpunch wrote:I don't think the series needs to be G-rated. PG13 is fine.

Yeah, I was started to think that making it G-rated might be asking a bit much, but anything above PG is pushing it, as we already got a bunch of PG-13 stuf from ROTF that we need not be given again. :SICK:

deathy wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:So you want to have Kiss Players revamped, by removing everything that defines Kiss Players even the gimmick and concept. You know that wouldn't be a revamped Kiss Players, it would be a completely different series.

I agree,This sounds similar to what Simon Furman wants to do with marvel TF G-1 Issue #81. simon wants to forget G-2 happened. simon wants to leave out some TF G-1 marvel comics events.

Basically taking stuff away leads on the border line of a "What if" or spiralling stuff out in a alternate universe/reality.

What I'm going for is the same story and same characters, but with all the gross content and concepts removed/altered to make it cleaner.

Zombie Starscream wrote:I agree with the other posters. Once you change too much stuff around with KISS PLAYERS, then it stops being KP and starts being something else.

Of course. I don't want it to be the exact same thing as it was before. Just that it is "BASED" on it by having the same story and characters, but told in a child-safe way.

Zombie Starscream wrote:3. I would also get rid (like another poster said) of the Legions/Megatrons phallic 'tongues' and replace them with nothing/something else. But if you want to make them stay scary, then they have to keep some horror element

True. But there are different kinds of "scary". There is "cool" scary (

), and "gross" scary ( :SICK:

). What the Legion would need is more

and less/no :SICK:

.

Zombie Starscream wrote:and I would give them a long tentacle-looking tongue. When they want to feed, they just slide this tongue down some victim's throat and digest/drain their body fluids from the inside out. At the end the victim is a dried up husk, and the Legion looks like he had a full meal.

That's... still disturbing. Remember, the Transformers are still for children first and foremost. That age range needs to be kept in mind before all else.

Zombie Starscream wrote:4. When the girls emerge from their robot partners, they shouldn't be covered in a white 'slime' and they shouldn't be nearly naked. There should just be a brief white flash and then you see a unconscious fully dressed girl lying on the ground, no slime included.

This is why I just figured it would be best to make the them Powermasters. The concept is identical, plus not only familiar but clean to boot.

Though, they may not have to be girls wearing metal exo-suits for this to work (unless one want them to), as they could be a different variation of Powermaster that involves them bonding to a Transformer wearing normal clothing in a more mystical way instead of the technical method of changing into an engine and attaching to the bots' bodies.

robofreak wrote:wait, wasn't Binaltech Sunstreaker and 1 other figure part of Kiss Players before they made an official switch to KP packaging?

No. Sunstreaker, Alert, and Broadblast were all Binaltech Asterisk toys. Kiss Players only had Convoy, Hot Rodimus, and Autorooper.

Posted: **Fri Jun 10, 2011 11:52 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:So... Kiss Players. One of the most controversial lines of the Transformers series ever produced. It's toys (the robots, that is) were decent enough, since they were mostly Binaltech/Alternator molds, G1 cassette molds, and Japanese Beast Wars Egg Beast molds.

The fiction however, is where things got (to put it politely) disturbing. The two story arcs that lay beneath its creepy exterior were genuinely kinda interesting and intriguing (once you got passed to gross stuff), but it's one of those series that is VERY hard to get into because just how hideous it appears at first glance (particularly the first story arc).

Therefore, suppose it were to be given a complete revamped overhaul to make it G-rated. No hentai, no innuendos, no pornographic imagery whatsoever. In order for something like this to work, what sort of specific changes would you see being done to make this less grotesque and more appealing?

Here's some of my thoughts:
Like I said above, all risqué material would be gone for good. No porn, period.
The name and gimmick of the series would have to be changed. No human-to-robot kissing, period. Therefore, the name would have to be different from "Kiss Players". But as for how the characters could retain some of the mystical aspects of this gimmick, just make all the girls Powermasters. Not Godmasters, but Powermasters.
All the girls would be redrawn to look their proper age. Mid-to-late teen looks instead of underage looks.
The Legion would all be redesigned to look safe for children, while still being scary-looking. No phallic tongues (or even no tongues whatsoever).
Kiss Players Position would need less editing, but it too would need the same removal of unwanted material.
Ringo would need a complete character overhaul. She's psycho. Make her into the annoying comic relief butt monkey. That's a much more dignified role than the sick twisted person she already is.

What else could be changed to make it G-rated?

Whoa, I'm all for hating this series and thinking it's totally freaking...wrong, but why are robots with tongues a bad thing? That's freaking awesome!

Posted: **Sat Jun 11, 2011 5:13 am**

SlyTF1 wrote:Whoa, I'm all for hating this series and thinking it's totally freaking...wrong, but why are robots with tongues a bad thing? That's freaking awesome!

It's not that one of them has a tongue that makes it freaky. It's what the tongue looks like. (WARNING: View at Your Own Risk). :SICK:

Posted: **Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:04 am**

Sabrblade wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Whoa, I'm all for hating this series and thinking it's totally freaking...wrong, but why are robots with tongues a bad thing? That's freaking awesome!
It's not that one of them has a tongue that makes it freaky. It's what the tongue looks like. (WARNING: View at Your Own Risk).

JEEZUS!!! Oh well...I guess I had that one coming...wait, that sounds wrong. Let me just say that if I had not clicked that, my hope for humanity would not have been lowered even more than it already has been.

Posted: **Sat Jun 11, 2011 10:24 am**

SlyTF1 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
SlyTF1 wrote:Whoa, I'm all for hating this series and thinking it's totally freaking...wrong, but why are robots with tongues a bad thing? That's freaking awesome!
It's not that one of them has a tongue that makes it freaky. It's what the tongue looks like. (WARNING: View at Your Own Risk).

JEEZUS!!! Oh well...I guess I had that one coming...wait, that sounds wrong. Let me just say that if I had not clicked that, my hope for humanity would not have been lowered even more than it already has been.

It's that kind of gross stuff that the first story arc of Kiss Players contained and would need to be removed in a PG revamp of the story.

Posted: **Sat Jun 11, 2011 11:04 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
TulioDude wrote:Well,since its based on the Alternator/Binaltech toy they could have a focus on the humans and Transformers as partners,like a human alliance?
The real story already does that. Each Kiss Player is partnered with a Transformer (be it an Autorooper or Optimus/Rodimus) that they merge with.

I didnt mean in a power up style.

Sabrblade wrote:But that image you put is of the Binaltech Asterisk line.

It is just an example.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:04 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Zombie Starscream wrote:and I would give them a long tentacle-looking tongue. When they want to feed, they just slide this tongue down some victim's throat and digest/drain their body fluids from the inside out. At the end the victim is a dried up husk, and the Legion looks like he had a full meal.
That's... still disturbing. Remember, the Transformers are still for children first and foremost. That age range needs to be kept in mind before all else.

It depends on what you mean by 'child safe.' Remember Watership Down and The Secret of NIMH? One had some degree of gore and both showed character deaths onscreen, yet both are considered children's movies. Plus the old G1 series had one episode that showed the Decepticons getting drunk, but these aren't banned from being shown anywhere. Even the last TMNT show portrayed mature stuff.

None of these are considered too much for children, since they do things in such a way that is tasteful and handled in a serious manner. I don't think children are unable to handle things that are serious, but nowadays most people think 'grown up' stuff means tons of cheap sex jokes and swearing. Of which I do agree, children shouldn't be exposed to.

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:10 pm**

Zombie Starscream wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Zombie Starscream wrote:and I would give them a long tentacle-looking tongue. When they want to feed, they just slide this tongue down some victim's throat and digest/drain their body fluids from the inside out. At the end the victim is a dried up husk, and the Legion looks like he had a full meal.
That's... still disturbing. Remember, the Transformers are still for children first and foremost. That age range needs to be kept in mind before all else.
It depends on what you mean by 'child safe.' Remember Watership Down and The Secret of NIMH? One had some degree of gore and both showed character deaths onscreen, yet both are considered children's movies. Plus the old G1 series had one episode that showed the Decepticons getting drunk, but these aren't banned from being shown anywhere. Even the last TMNT show portrayed mature stuff.

None of these are considered too much for children, since they do things in such a way that is tasteful and handled in a serious manner. I don't think children are unable to handle things that are serious, but nowadays most people think 'grown up' stuff means tons of cheap sex jokes and swearing. Of which I do agree, children shouldn't be exposed to.

Don't forget Pirates of the Caribbean, a Disney movie! One of my favorite scenes in the entire series is in the third movie where Davy Jones uses his tentacles to put them down a guy named Mercer's eye socket, then it came out of his nose and into his mouth and chokes him to death. I loved that part. And this is a Disney movie!

Posted: **Sun Jun 12, 2011 8:38 pm**

Zombie Starscream wrote:One had some degree of gore and both showed character deaths onscreen, yet both are considered children's movies. Plus the old G1 series had one episode that showed the Decepticons getting drunk, but these aren't banned from being shown anywhere. Even the last TMNT show portrayed mature stuff.

None of these are considered too much for children, since they do things in such a way that is tasteful and handled in a serious manner. I don't think children are unable to handle things that are serious, but nowadays most people think 'grown up' stuff means tons of cheap sex jokes and swearing. Of which I do agree, children shouldn't be exposed to.

I'm talking of today's standards. Those examples are from years ago when the censors were a bit more lenient.

Plus, movies are a different medium from TV shows. They can get away with more serious stuff in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience.

SlyTF1 wrote:Don't forget Pirates of the Caribbean, a Disney movie! One of my favorite scenes in the entire series is in the third movie where Davy Jones uses his tentacles to put them down a guy named Mercer's eye socket, then it came out of his nose and into his mouth and chokes him to death. I loved that part. And this is a Disney movie!

Again, movie. Those can do that kind of stuff since they aren't targeted to primarily children alone.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:00 am**

Sabrblade wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:Ringo has to stay and should be the villain. She should also be some kind of crazed yandere.

Only if she keeps her body to herself.

Wrong.

She needs to be even worse, scary worse. Ringo force-feeding flowers to people by kissing them was incredibly bizarre and scary-awesome. She should be diabolical. :twisted:

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 7:09 am**

Counterpunch wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:Ringo has to stay and should be the villain. She should also be some kind of crazed yandere.

Only if she keeps her body to herself.

Wrong.

She needs to be even worse, scary worse. Ringo force-feeding flowers to people by kissing them was incredibly bizarre and scary-awesome. She should be diabolical.

I'm trying to think of ways to make people stop (blindly) hating this series. You're not exactly helping.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:44 pm**

Sabrblade wrote:
Zombie Starscream wrote:One had some degree of gore and both showed character deaths onscreen, yet both are considered children's movies. Plus the old G1 series had one episode that showed the Decepticons getting drunk, but these aren't banned from being shown anywhere. Even the last TMNT show portrayed mature stuff.

None of these are considered too much for children, since they do things in such a way that is tasteful and handled in a serious manner. I don't think children are unable to handle things that are serious, but nowadays most people think 'grown up' stuff means tons of cheap sex jokes and swearing. Of which I do agree, children shouldn't be exposed to.
I'm talking of today's standards. Those examples are from years ago when the censors were a bit more lenient.

Plus, movies are a different medium from TV shows. They can get away with more serious stuff in an attempt to appeal to a wider audience.

Actually, the TMNT show I'm referring to was only a couple of years ago, and it shows character deaths.

While the censors might have been looser (and parents less lenient with what they considered appropriate) nowadays censors are are super strict and parents allow their kids to play GTA. So it depends on who the child is.

EDIT: Also I might want to mention this-
Even if Transformers was originally a child's show, it doesn't mean that it can't still be enjoyed by the orginal 1984 audience. It might have had simple themes back then, but seeing more complex things reflected in the show allows us to explore differant ideas and consequences like we did back when we were children. The world never stops once you grow up, it just turns into a scarier place instead.

Posted: **Mon Jun 13, 2011 9:57 pm**

Zombie Starscream wrote:Actually, the TMNT show I'm referring to was only a couple of years ago, and it shows character deaths.

It did not show human deaths. Any deaths seen on screen in that show were that of non-human beings that were considered inhuman enough to be "destroyed" on screen. Any legitimate human deaths were depicted off screen without any explicit use of the words death/dead/die/died/kill/killed/murder/murdered/etc. Those death were only implied rather than outright stated, in spite of their obviousness. If the subject of a human's death was ever brought up, substitute words like "slain", "fallen", "lost", and "gone" were used instead.

Posted: **Fri Mar 23, 2012 6:18 am**

Personally, I think that Kiss Players should just be completely forgotten about. It was absolutely horrible, filled with weirdness...A revamp-even a completely kid-friendly one-would be giving the franchise more respect than it deserves.

A parody, on the other hand, without the weird stuff, and with role reversal (for example, the Legion are complete wusses scared of offending anyone, whilst Atari is a foul-mouthed fag-end-chewing tough-girl) could be a good idea...providing it remorselessly mocked the source material. Let's not forget that to most right-thinking Transformers fans-Japanese, western, or otherwise-Yuki Onisha is an individual worthy of contempt, and Kiss Players is a bad dream.

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