Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[o.supreme]

I just want to clarify based on some reactions to opinions....I do not hate MTMTE/LL...its just not *my cup of tea*. It mostly focuses on characters I don't have a desire to follow (though I do appreciate that it has given personality to several characters that weren't developed in the original marvel Comic or Sunbow animated series..) However, *some* well established characters either in Hasbro or Takara continuity have been reimagined in ways I'm just not a fan of. Just because *we* in North America did not have these series 30 years ago, doesn't (IMHO) give license to recreate them from scratch. As for the others, the well established ones that are so radically different in this series, I have no comment. If you want to create a whole new universe (i.e. shattered glass), then go for it, then you have carte blanche to do whatever you want. Have Megatron be an Autobot, have Star Saber be a crazy zealot. That's fine, but, for me at least, such egregious personality deviations in an *established* original continuity is not something I can get on board with. Now I know the counter to this is...I am being to rigid, and characters in my view are not allowed to grow and change, and to that I say that's not true.....I am ok with change, but it has to make sense.

With that being said, do I expect IDW to all of a sudden change and conform to be a *true* follow up to the Marvel series, or Sunbow animated? No...I expect things to continue as they are. I've always considered IDW overall to be like JJ Abrams Star Trek. Sure you have all the original characters, but its just *updated* (for good or ill) for modern readers, and some enjoy that, I happen to fall on the other side. Just know that when fans such as myself ask for a *true* comic, or animated series set in the original series continuity (or G1 as most refer to), and we get all this backlash, fans stating- "NO there is too much G1 already, we want BW, Armada etc..." I have 2 questions/statements

1.Are all these things REALLY G1?...no
2. At least BW and the Unicron Trilogy were complete stories, other than for the sake of new toys (which I want also btw...), do you REALLY want these stories that had satisfactory endings to be reimagined?...think about it...

[Lore Keeper]

an angry child spitefully smashing toys so we can't play with them.

Honestly, this is how all the gratuitous character deaths have been leaving me feeling lately. I applaud a story that isn't afraid to kill a character just because they're important, but it seems to become more excessive over time with these comics. Definitely feels like someone just came and smashed my Defensor and left my Optimus Maximus short one arm or leg.

[Burn]

do I expect IDW to all of a sudden change and conform to be a *true* follow up to the Marvel series,

But...they did.

[ArmadaPrime]

I just made an account (finally, after months of lurking) to comment on this, because one really important bit told in this issue has not been adressed as of yet.
Meaning, all this talking about who´s dead and how the wrong guy won, but nobody ever mentioned that Getaway is right now stuck in a time loop?

Can I back up this theory?

It is all there: simply look at page three, second panel. See what he´s dong there. Now go to page 21, panel three.

Not sure what this means about most of the other things happening in the book, but this makes one thing clear: what we see in the end is not Cyberutopia. Rather, it is what Getaway expects Cyberutopia to look like. Or even what Sunder thinks that Getaway expects Cyberutopia to look like. Even that one is mentioned in the form of Froid (almost) criticising Getaway. Not even Froid and (probably) Sunder do no longer condone what Getaway is doing at this point.

Not to be too dramatic, as this could totally be a swing and a miss, but I did stop and internally scream after reading this comment because oh my gosh, I think you are 100% on the money.
Combine this with my previous comment:

Speaking of things seeming out of place: Chekhov's time jump? The only reason I can figure for the whole "left the rabbithole before we arrived" is that maybe it somehow explains Riptide surviving 5 minutes in the pool. I figured he just outran the scraplets in boat form.

and we might have a bit more fleshed out of a theory. Getaway is in a different form of memory loop than the ones which we've seen- his allows for a consistend narrative, hence why the two panels are very similar but in different settings. However, for this to still work as a loop rather than just a linear dream, they need the backwards-in-time jump, to allow things to actually repeat.
This could, at a stretch, also explain the use of Ambulon, rather than Mirage.
It's possible that when setting the loop, none of Froid/Sunder/Getaway himself knew that Mirage had been a combiner, and so it wouldn't have even occured that dream-Defensor could use him as a leg- hence using Ambulon despite him being long dead and largely forgotten.

Of course, this could be total nonsense and overthinking on my part.

Also, just to quell some fears: Roberts seems to have confirmed multiple times now on his twitter that the Protectobots didn't die in the shuttle bay fight. If that is so then I feel either the art or the script (not sure wherein the issue lies, Roberts tends to be quite specific about what to put in each panel ) could be much clearer on that, personally!

[o.supreme]

do I expect IDW to all of a sudden change and conform to be a *true* follow up to the Marvel series,

But...they did.

yeah but that was something completely separate meant to serve as a proper ending to the Marvel Comic. I meant take the current IDW mainline universe and turn IT into the G1 of 30 years ago. I especially want a follow up to the animated series (What happened Post Rebirth? or in the 20 year gap between S2 and TFTM...) . I know we will never get it, but I can at least take solace in knowing that I'm not the only one who continues to ask for it.

[WreckerJack]

I'll say that **** really hit the fan in this one, I got them feels man. Even though it was painful I will say that it was a lot better of a read than the filler we have been getting. I feel like the story is finally picking up and things are actually happening. I want the next issue dangit!

[CaptainMagic]

an angry child spitefully smashing toys so we can't play with them.

Honestly, this is how all the gratuitous character deaths have been leaving me feeling lately. I applaud a story that isn't afraid to kill a character just because they're important, but it seems to become more excessive over time with these comics. Definitely feels like someone just came and smashed my Defensor and left my Optimus Maximus short one arm or leg.

Oh, come on! You're skipping my whole post and just going for the bit you've already said! I know that's how this story feels. I even kind of agree with you. I'm just trying to see if there's a way to re-frame this story where we don't have to talk about Roberts as some world-weary crap writer while still acknowledging the flaws in the story. Basically, is there a way to criticize the work without needing to insult the man? And for the record, I didn't like this issue all that much either, and I've been cooling quite a bit on LL as well. I've just been putting a lot of thought into why that is and trying to come up with, if not a more hopeful interpretation, at least a more positive one.

Oh, and about this all being Getaway's memory loop, that could actually be pretty bad news depending on what did and did not happen. It could be that when we next see the Lost Light it's going to be run by Star Saber. So I guess the question there is: how man brutal sociopaths do you want all your favorite background crew members to suffer under?

[YoungPrime]

8.5/10

Not sure what others were reading but I enjoyed this issue!

Sure, it would be nice to see Getaway get his due but more build up won't hurt.

[Va'al]

an angry child spitefully smashing toys so we can't play with them.

Honestly, this is how all the gratuitous character deaths have been leaving me feeling lately. I applaud a story that isn't afraid to kill a character just because they're important, but it seems to become more excessive over time with these comics. Definitely feels like someone just came and smashed my Defensor and left my Optimus Maximus short one arm or leg.

Oh, come on! You're skipping my whole post and just going for the bit you've already said! I know that's how this story feels. I even kind of agree with you. I'm just trying to see if there's a way to re-frame this story where we don't have to talk about Roberts as some world-weary crap writer while still acknowledging the flaws in the story. Basically, is there a way to criticize the work without needing to insult the man? And for the record, I didn't like this issue all that much either, and I've been cooling quite a bit on LL as well. I've just been putting a lot of thought into why that is and trying to come up with, if not a more hopeful interpretation, at least a more positive one.

Yes. Thank you.

[Lore Keeper]

an angry child spitefully smashing toys so we can't play with them.

Honestly, this is how all the gratuitous character deaths have been leaving me feeling lately. I applaud a story that isn't afraid to kill a character just because they're important, but it seems to become more excessive over time with these comics. Definitely feels like someone just came and smashed my Defensor and left my Optimus Maximus short one arm or leg.

Oh, come on! You're skipping my whole post and just going for the bit you've already said! I know that's how this story feels. I even kind of agree with you. I'm just trying to see if there's a way to re-frame this story where we don't have to talk about Roberts as some world-weary crap writer while still acknowledging the flaws in the story. Basically, is there a way to criticize the work without needing to insult the man? And for the record, I didn't like this issue all that much either, and I've been cooling quite a bit on LL as well. I've just been putting a lot of thought into why that is and trying to come up with, if not a more hopeful interpretation, at least a more positive one.

Oh, and about this all being Getaway's memory loop, that could actually be pretty bad news depending on what did and did not happen. It could be that when we next see the Lost Light it's going to be run by Star Saber. So I guess the question there is: how man brutal sociopaths do you want all your favorite background crew members to suffer under?

I didn't mean to brush off the rest if your post; I just really like the way you worded that. I do agree with you that while this issue is getting a lot of hate, it doesn't mean the writer is past his prime or just not good in general. In fact, I get the distinct feeling not everything is as it seems in the issue. I think the strange flow of events and the pacing may indicate that there is indeed a glitch in the Matrix. That, or I'm just having trouble coming to terms with all the good characters that just died.

[WreckerJack]

Now that I am done mulling over this issue I ponder the following : How was Ambulon allowed to be the leg if he was dead? Either there is something they are not telling us or thats a bit of a plot hole. How can a leg be a leg if it can't move? Also, I feel bad Atomizer bit the dust. I was starting to have hope that he was coming to his senses and have a redemption arc maybe somehow helping the others defeat Getaway.

[ricemazter]

an angry child spitefully smashing toys so we can't play with them.

Honestly, this is how all the gratuitous character deaths have been leaving me feeling lately. I applaud a story that isn't afraid to kill a character just because they're important, but it seems to become more excessive over time with these comics. Definitely feels like someone just came and smashed my Defensor and left my Optimus Maximus short one arm or leg.

Oh, come on! You're skipping my whole post and just going for the bit you've already said! I know that's how this story feels. I even kind of agree with you. I'm just trying to see if there's a way to re-frame this story where we don't have to talk about Roberts as some world-weary crap writer while still acknowledging the flaws in the story. Basically, is there a way to criticize the work without needing to insult the man? And for the record, I didn't like this issue all that much either, and I've been cooling quite a bit on LL as well. I've just been putting a lot of thought into why that is and trying to come up with, if not a more hopeful interpretation, at least a more positive one.

Oh, and about this all being Getaway's memory loop, that could actually be pretty bad news depending on what did and did not happen. It could be that when we next see the Lost Light it's going to be run by Star Saber. So I guess the question there is: how man brutal sociopaths do you want all your favorite background crew members to suffer under?

I didn't mean to brush off the rest if your post; I just really like the way you worded that. I do agree with you that while this issue is getting a lot of hate, it doesn't mean the writer is past his prime or just not good in general. In fact, I get the distinct feeling not everything is as it seems in the issue. I think the strange flow of events and the pacing may indicate that there is indeed a glitch in the Matrix. That, or I'm just having trouble coming to terms with all the good characters that just died.

See, this is one of the big problems I have with Roberts' writing: the whole "nothing is as it seems" thing. Especially recently, he introduces so many plot threads that won't have a payoff or conclusion until some point in the very far future. This is exhausting and makes each individual issue feel empty.

Instead of interesting situations that yield compelling character interactions, in the mutineers trilogy, we're left with an over complicated plot where the only thing we've learned is that Getaway is an uninteresting monster with a god complex. We can't have interesting internal conflict with the rest of the crew because they've all been brainwashed or killed off to justify the plot.

The big problem with LL is the same problem that Sherlock succumbed to. More and more complicated misdirection and nonsensical things continued to happen with the promise of an amazing payoff that never happened. Meanwhile, people justified it by saying that future episodes would tie it all together. That show was so preoccupied with being clever that it forgot to be smart. I see the same thing happening here.

The introduction of memory loops and time travel promises some clever way to salvage the story line, itself filled with cleverness to justify its own plot. If given the choice, I'd take a much smarter, tighter story.

[Va'al]

Thanks to online retailer Amazon.com, we have a listing for the issues of IDW Publishing's Transformers: Lost Light that follow the Mutineers Trilogy, collected as a trade paperback in volume 3 of the ongoing series!

The release date is currently set at September 18, 2018, and the current price for the pre-order is $13.07. This will go up to regular 19.99 later, so if you're in for the trade, take advantage of the discount. The book has the cover for issue #13, and as a bonus, you can also take a look at the Cyclonus-centric art by Jack Lawrence before it got coloured below!

A witty, smart, emotional take on fan-favorite Transformers characters in a sci-fi world unlike any other!

Winner of the Comixology Award for Best Ongoing Comic Series of 2017, as well as Best Writer for James Roberts!

Crammed into a dead Decepticon astropod that's ten sizes too small, the displaced crew of the Lost Light face their most serious threat yet: each other. No worries though, Rodimus can save the day! Plus, the Scavengers have never had it so good. The war is a receding memory, their patchy service records have been forgotten, and the five of them can roam the galaxy as they please. All's well that ends well? Not quite.

Collects issues #13-18.

[WreckerJack]

My GF pointed out Drift and Ratchet's pose looks like they are going to kiss. CANNOT UNSEE!

[not_a_bot]

My GF pointed out Drift and Ratchet's pose looks like they are going to kiss. CANNOT UNSEE!

Well - Markerguru actually drew that once, too, so it happened.

[Ironhidensh]

I want to make it clear my issues are not with Robert's, but with the story. After getting over the initial shock, the issue isn't as bad as I first felt.


Basically, as much as I hated combiner Wars, they happened. They also established Combiner as a big freaking deal. No single Transformers, aside from a titan or Omega, should be able to handle them. The Stars Saber part really wrecked things for me. It should not have happened that he could take out Defensor so easily. It pulled me out if the story, and ruined the flow of an otherwise fast paced, action packed issue.

[partholon]

an angry child spitefully smashing toys so we can't play with them.

Honestly, this is how all the gratuitous character deaths have been leaving me feeling lately. I applaud a story that isn't afraid to kill a character just because they're important, but it seems to become more excessive over time with these comics. Definitely feels like someone just came and smashed my Defensor and left my Optimus Maximus short one arm or leg.

im a little perturbed by that too.

roberts isnt going to be on these books forever, thats just the nature of the industry, so what state is he going to leave the IDWverse in for his sucessor ?

ive been hoping he'd be like a warren ellis- who can do some stellar stuff but still leave the main "universe" in a decent state.

more and more im starting to get the feel of a grant morison. who fuked up the x books for ages by leaving them in a right state and led to a complete reboot by joss whedon (who basically just ignored whole swathes of it and restarted from scratch).

the illusion of change is one of the hardest tricks to pull off in comics. theres a reason why the chris claremonts of the world held out on killing characters that often. sometimes its better for the book to just have someone taken out of the story in a different way.

[Sagitta]

...How was Ambulon allowed to be the leg if he was dead? Either there is something they are not telling us or thats a bit of a plot hole. How can a leg be a leg if it can't move?

Well, in a back issue of one of the ongoing series (before Lost Light) they told Orion Pax's backstory. It was when the thugs sent by the Council murdered two of his officers and had Pax cornered. To aid himself Pax took the remains of one of his officers and prompted it to form into it's alt mode: a cycle.

More recently in "Lost Light" Rodimus and the others are riding around in the transformed spacecraft mode of a deceased Decepticon.

It's not out of the possible Amblulon's remains would be used in much the same way. He was designed to be a "leg" of a Decepticon combiner. Why he left the Decepticons originally.

So, Roberts is going by something established.

[partholon]

not to mention they already did this already with "dead leg scrapper" during the chaos event.

so there is not only precedent, its prob an outright call back.

[o.supreme]

^It's a similar situation with Bruticus in TAAO. Swindle was a comatose/dead bot (forget exactly which), but they still combined. I can understand how from a physical perspective. But now mentally, you are only starting out at 80% at best, plus we know that Combiners have to put in intense effort to meld mentally in the first place, having one out of commission makes it all the worse I would think.

[Sagitta]

^It's a similar situation with Bruticus in TAAO. Swindle was a comatose/dead bot (forget exactly which), but they still combined. I can understand how from a physical perspective. But now mentally, you are only starting out at 80% at best, plus we know that Combiners have to put in intense effort to meld mentally in the first place, having one out of commission makes it all the worse I would think.

True. But with the one being being out of commission does that make the easier for the over-all combiner to control the "dead-metal"...or harder without the additional "mental push"?

I know there was a G1 'toon episode on this: "B.O.T." but that doesn't exactly work into the equation. A different beast so to speak. Bruticus couldn't even stay connected together for any amount of time when Brawl's brain went A.W.O.L.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

Ok, I really do like the evidence and the theories about how Getaway is in his own Timeloop. They seem to fit, and it would be the giant twist that would bring it all back together.

But, I thought about this all weekend while thinking about the protectobots, and I have come up with another theory to pose:

All of this did in fact happen. And they did in fact find "cyberutopia". But here's the thing: LL9 showed that Scorponok is in this story, and he is in deep, like he is involved in the Knights stuff. Among the other things that he is involved with is the creation of new artificial cybertronians who can transform into anything and heal themselves from the dead. He also now has the magnificance, something Hot Rod/Rodimus had a starring role in back in its original storyline, and the magnificance can be used to help bring Cybertronians back from the dead.

So, Getaway finds Cyberutopia, they crew gets taken over by Scoroponok and his cronies, the dead are brought back to life, all of them. And then, when the crew of the LL that were thrown off the ship find Cyberutopia, it is defended and manned by their controlled crewmates, some of whom are back from the dead and include a Defensor using Rook again but with Ambulon replacing First Aid.

Along the way to freeing their revived dead friends and stopping Scorponok, Getaway gets hi comeuppance, finds out Skids died, and has a moment with Nautica over how Skids was her best friend but now she can't remember/care because of LL 8 and 9.

Speaking of which, that was an interesting moment when Getaway saw he wasn't Skids' best friend anymore

[o.supreme]

^It's a similar situation with Bruticus in TAAO. Swindle was a comatose/dead bot (forget exactly which), but they still combined. I can understand how from a physical perspective. But now mentally, you are only starting out at 80% at best, plus we know that Combiners have to put in intense effort to meld mentally in the first place, having one out of commission makes it all the worse I would think.

True. But with the one being being out of commission does that make the easier for the over-all combiner to control the "dead-metal"...or harder without the additional "mental push"?

I know there was a G1 'toon episode on this: "B.O.T." but that doesn't exactly work into the equation. A different beast so to speak. Bruticus couldn't even stay connected together for any amount of time when Brawl's brain went A.W.O.L.

I actually prefer the original animated continuity, but I consider its explanation of things completely separate from any comic-book universe. Defensor was able to form without First Aid at all in "The Ultimate Weapon", although without and arm he was hindered quite a bit. In the original animated series, I consider Combiners to have their own distinct personality when together, a new personality. Whereas in most comics, the *personality* that emerges from the combiner seems to be a melding of its various components, thus making it much more of a liability if one of them is missing, or dead, unconscious etc... I also like the idea established in Scramble City that a Decepticon (and presumably an Autobot as well), can sabotage a combiners ability to function by disrupting a combination sequence and forcing its way it. . Although if a new component was a willing participant (i.e. Scoop with Devastator) this would allow the combiner to resume optimum functionality. Just my two cents. I can talk about combiners all day

[snavej]

There is a major trend in IDW TF comics where many Autobots are revealed as corrupt in some way, e.g. Getaway, Sandstorm, Prowl, Grimlock, etc. This was one of the problems that caused the civil war in the first place. I'm not surprised but it is depressing to see other Autobots betrayed, injured and killed by their turncoat friends.

Edit: What's the deal with Star Saber turning fanatic? I don't know much about him but he's supposed to be one of the central heroes of the franchise, especially in Japan. He's gone down a very different path in IDW. It's a very big leap. He seems to pop up only to ruin things for others.

If the Autobots can turn evil, we should see more Decepticons turning good. We've already had Megatron, Soundwave, Starscream and Thundercracker (maybe others: I forget). Shockwave did it too, just before he died. The Combaticons got a bit lovey-dovey. I'm waiting for the Stunticons to have a peaceful garden party with cucumber sandwiches for their many human guests!

[ArmadaPrime]

It's depressing, but also I think what makes the modern IDW run so rich and enjoyable- it's no longer black and white (or red and purple), there are so many shades of grey (or... maroon? ).
Even leaving aside the big debate subjects like megatron, prime, and stars team, you have it on a smaller scale with the scavengers, pyra magna, the dinobots, and loads more.
Though yes, seeing friends turn on each other can leave a bit of a sting!