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IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Discuss anything about the Transformers cartoons and comics! You can discuss anything from G1 to Cybertron as well as the comics from Marvel, Dreamwave, IDW and more!

Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:33 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
What if the tone was meant to be humorous anyway? Mtmte was supposed to be light hearted from the get go.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun Jun 24, 2018 1:38 pm

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ZeroWolf wrote:What if the tone was meant to be humorous anyway? Mtmte was supposed to be light hearted from the get go.



IDWverse as a whole, wasn't. The disparity was akin to going from Battlestar Galactica (2004) to Red Dwarf.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Sun Jun 24, 2018 2:21 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I don't know about that I think the tf universe is big and full of quirky characters that you could do multiple styles without stepping on toes, in fact idw did for a while with rid/op, TaaO and MtMtE/LL each had their own style and ran with it. I don't see why it's any different than what the big two do, or why should it be any different. Also considering Red Dwarfs inspirations; I could easily see that being part of the blade Runner universe ;-)
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:25 pm

Motto: "Guilty or Innocent?
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The difference being is there is no real contrast. The equivalent of everyone in Beast Wars becoming Rattrap/Waspinator from one season to the next.

The Big Two still consider the source material as the foundation for the story, not just window dressing for whatever story the writer actually wants to tell.

Batman is still Batman, the X-Men are still allegory for oppressed minorities. First and foremost, The Transformers are shape-shifting Giant Alien Robots. You work off of that premise or you're not actually writing Transformers at all.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Sun Jun 24, 2018 3:44 pm

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Or maybe you look past that and see them as characters with their own personalities...their sparks if you will? Also do you have proof that alien races have no concept of any of the things you claim to be humanising elements? I mean it's not something you can prove or disprove really so it really becomes opinion, and one that I fall pretty much on the side of: they aren't a problem in the slightest. I mean I rather focus on the bigger things then the little things that are meant to make the characters feel three dimensional. Basically just because they are alien giant robots doesn't mean they have not act like that and become one dimensional representations of tech specs. I mean if an alien species choosing to spend time with another because of mutual interests or a desire for company destroys your suspension of dis belief then I have to question how you got past humanoid looking alien giant robots in the first place.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:59 am

Motto: "Guilty or Innocent?
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ZeroWolf wrote:Or maybe you look past that and see them as characters with their own personalities...their sparks if you will?


Which many, many writers have achieved without making them human caricatures.

ZeroWolf wrote: Also do you have proof that alien races have no concept of any of the things you claim to be humanising elements? I mean it's not something you can prove or disprove really

I mean I rather focus on the bigger things then the little things that are meant to make the characters feel three dimensional. Basically just because they are alien giant robots doesn't mean they have not act like that and become one dimensional representations of tech specs. I mean if an alien species choosing to spend time with another because of mutual interests or a desire for company destroys your suspension of dis belief then I have to question how you got past humanoid looking alien giant robots in the first place.


I've seen variations on this answer before, so let's cut through the BS of it's overtly sardonic tone and point it directly at Transformers. With Transformers, there is a line, as I've said before. Lean too heavily over it, you are just writing people in cosplay. The "proof" that that line exists for a reason and works elsewhere?

The Award Winning Beast Wars and Transformers: Prime?

They humanise but not to excess. It's not a case of either Humans in Robot suits or Tech Specs. That is needlessly reductive and somewhat dismissive of the franchise as a whole.

I don't recall Simon Furman's G1 or IDW work being 'Tech Specs' and it wasn't pandering to the mentality of it's era either. The next shift in attitude, likely in the next decade, public opinion will likely change once more and a critical and dismissive eye will be cast on everything that dated itself in that era IE That was so 90's etc This era will likely be mocked for it's bizarre social politics.

To reiterate, I don't want a person in a Robot cosplay talking about their feelings, gender politics and guffaws. There are plenty of books for that, written by far more well informed and capable people. Yet I don't want two robots smashing against each other either. That's the mass media tripe that Bayformers sells.

I want balance and that is what I am looking to the Rebooted Universe for. I joked about it before but maybe putting someone like Grant Morrison at the helm would give the series the jolt of new life and purpose it deserves.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Ironhidensh » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:03 am

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Weapon: Big Cannon
AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
ZeroWolf wrote:Or maybe you look past that and see them as characters with their own personalities...their sparks if you will?


Which many, many writers have achieved without making them human caricatures.

ZeroWolf wrote: Also do you have proof that alien races have no concept of any of the things you claim to be humanising elements? I mean it's not something you can prove or disprove really

I mean I rather focus on the bigger things then the little things that are meant to make the characters feel three dimensional. Basically just because they are alien giant robots doesn't mean they have not act like that and become one dimensional representations of tech specs. I mean if an alien species choosing to spend time with another because of mutual interests or a desire for company destroys your suspension of dis belief then I have to question how you got past humanoid looking alien giant robots in the first place.


I've seen variations on this answer before, so let's cut through the BS of it's overtly sardonic tone and point it directly at Transformers. With Transformers, there is a line, as I've said before. Lean too heavily over it, you are just writing people in cosplay. The "proof" that that line exists for a reason and works elsewhere?

The Award Winning Beast Wars and Transformers: Prime?

They humanise but not to excess. It's not a case of either Humans in Robot suits or Tech Specs. That is needlessly reductive and somewhat dismissive of the franchise as a whole.

I don't recall Simon Furman's G1 or IDW work being 'Tech Specs' and it wasn't pandering to the mentality of it's era either. The next shift in attitude, likely in the next decade, public opinion will likely change once more and a critical and dismissive eye will be cast on everything that dated itself in that era IE That was so 90's etc This era will likely be mocked for it's bizarre social politics.

To reiterate, I don't want a person in a Robot cosplay talking about their feelings, gender politics and guffaws. There are plenty of books for that, written by far more well informed and capable people. Yet I don't want two robots smashing against each other either. That's the mass media tripe that Bayformers sells.

I want balance and that is what I am looking to the Rebooted Universe for. I joked about it before but maybe putting someone like Grant Morrison at the helm would give the series the jolt of new life and purpose it deserves.

I think this is just a matter if opinion. I don't see any difference in the "humanizing" in MTMTE, than I do in Beast Wars or Prime.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:15 am

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Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
Ok, if that's what you think. Find Rung and/or Swerve's Bar and point out their contemporaries within Prime and Beast Wars?
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:25 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Megatron having a rubber ducky and brushing his dinosaur teeth with a toothbrush? Also what about macadam oil house? That existed before idw. Isn't having a code of honour a humanising aspect? I agree with ironhideish that this is just a matter of opinion, and it's not the thing that brought down this continuity.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Mon Jun 25, 2018 7:38 am

Motto: "Guilty or Innocent?
Always Guilty..."
Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
A rubber ducky or toothbrush were just things, not a human institution. Again, this isn't about having no humanising aspects, you have to have something relatable for the mass market to grasp, as many struggle with the notion the Transformers are aliens and not just bigger versions of ASIMO.

This is about making them so human, they cease to be believable as anything other. The fact that MTMTE/LL had a whole issue with the cast as human avatars and it wasn't jarring in the slightest reinforces that point.

What brought down this continuity, is no single thing. It never is that simple. Usually decline sales, often in licensed IP's it comes down to a change in artistic direction from the license holders.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby starfishy » Mon Jun 25, 2018 5:23 pm

Motto: "may the force be with you"
Weapon: Solar Energo Sword
yeah, I’m not following this ‘overly humanizing’ critique at all.

From the get go, transformers turn into tractor trailers, helicopters and frikkin dinosaurs. What could be more humanizing than that?

Sure they are alien robots, but they are sentient, so I’m not seeing the problem. A good writer crafts a story around characters, unlike the live action films. I’m only on book 6 of MTMTE but so far it’s one of the best character driven transformers stories out there, for me at least.
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IDW Transformers: Lost Light #21 Geoff Senior Cover #2

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Mon Jun 25, 2018 6:43 pm

Motto: "There are no impossibilities in the multiverse, just small minds unable to comprehend the possibilities"
Weapon: Armor Axe
Thanks to a Tweet from James Roberts himself, we have a new cover of Lost Light to show you, and this one is Geoff Senior's cover for Lost Light Issue 21! The cover features Geoff Senior's ever classic art styles utilized on the Lost Light crew, along with the Scavengers. The colors for the cover are done by Josh Burcham. This very team also did the flashback scenes for Requiem of the Wreckers, and they continue to showcase their talent here.

Check out the cover below, and let us know what you think of Geoff Senior's and Josh Burcham's cover below! Do you like the fact that Geoff is back in action, doing some panel work and some covers? Let us know as well!

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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Carnivius_Prime » Mon Jun 25, 2018 10:38 pm

Motto: "A cunning smile is more devastating than the fiercest weapon."
Weapon: Anti-Thermal Cannon
Love Geoff Senior and his work always has so much style and energy to it but even he can't make that Rodimus design look good.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Quint » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:24 am

It looks like a coloured-in convention doodle.

I hope the reboot refrains from using nostalgia artists, with the possible exception of Don Figueroa. This isn't the same Geoff Senior who did Target:2006, Legacy of Unicron or Edge of Extinction. Whether he's out of practice (though he's been doing these guest spots off-and-on for a few years now) or the purse from IDW is miserly, it's starting to cannibalise his legacy a tad.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Jun 26, 2018 5:50 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I don't think it's that bad, but I do want to see more fresh talent brought up through the ranks, same with writers. I still think they should have an anthology type deal where every few months they put out a book which is several one shot stories of tf fiction where a new writer and a new artist is teamed up and we see what the result is.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Tue Jun 26, 2018 6:18 am

Motto: "Guilty or Innocent?
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Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
Carnivius_Prime wrote:Love Geoff Senior and his work always has so much style and energy to it but even he can't make that Rodimus design look good.

Agreed.

ZeroWolf wrote:I don't think it's that bad, but I do want to see more fresh talent brought up through the ranks, same with writers. I still think they should have an anthology type deal where every few months they put out a book which is several one shot stories of tf fiction where a new writer and a new artist is teamed up and we see what the result is.


Definitely agreed on bringing in New talent and New ideas. Hopefully they also refrain from the kind of art used in the Primacy Trilogy too. Certainly not a fan of any of that.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Jun 26, 2018 7:35 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
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Yeah I wasn't a fan of that style either, but I'm sure there was some who liked it for what it was.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Big Grim » Tue Jun 26, 2018 8:09 am

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Geoff Senior is my fav classic TF artist. Met him at Auto Assembly years ago. Nice fella. Got a signed Death's Head print.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby Sagitta » Wed Jun 27, 2018 1:14 am

Motto: ""Look to see what's there and see what's not.""
Weapon: Crossbow
Stormshot_Prime wrote:
DarkEnergon wrote:Ok, I'm really confused, but kind of excited, too. Here is one spoiler question someone has got to be able to explain to me:

Why the @#$@ are Perceptor, Hound, etc. sparkeaters?

Did I miss something, or is it just implied that Getaway did something?


We can only assume. Remember the sparkeater gun that Brainstorm created? This seems to be playing off the vision that Drift has back in issue 1, so there’s also a big possibility that Pharma is at work here too. If his body was dragged to this medical facility, we can only assume he was repaired before his spark faded.

Which raises another question, was the place Skids saw through the portal this same “Cyberutopia”? What of those orbs of light speaking in symbols?


The TF Wiki has some general background information that might be helpful https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Sparkeater_(creature) - but as for who's now what and why...that's one of those plots left for the upcoming issue I suppose.

Still, maybe blame it all on Getaway?

As for Skids & the orbs...maybe it was some sort of Iconic Telepathy?
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light #21 Geoff Senior Cover #2

Postby skyshadowprimus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:22 am

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:Thanks to a Tweet from James Roberts himself, we have a new cover of Lost Light to show you, and this one is Geoff Senior's cover for Lost Light Issue 21! The cover features Geoff Senior's ever classic art styles utilized on the Lost Light crew, along with the Scavengers. The colors for the cover are done by Josh Burcham. This very team also did the flashback scenes for Requiem of the Wreckers, and they continue to showcase their talent here.

Check out the cover below, and let us know what you think of Geoff Senior's and Josh Burcham's cover below! Do you like the fact that Geoff is back in action, doing some panel work and some covers? Let us know as well!

Image


Seeing Ultra Magnus and Rodimus being drawn by Geoff Senior has really slammed it home to me how much LL and other comics have changed the franchise and perceptions of the characters.

In comics from 1986-1991 these were serious characters who had some gravitas to them, now they are caricatures of themselves where Geoff's cover conveys a sense of urgency but the interior will be filled with cliches and other distractions.

I have enjoyed Lost Light and MTMTE before it but every issue I'm seeing it more far removed from the original serious action comic that I really loved as a child and later as an adult, Roberts does have his moments but more and more of late he is throwing in political statements that are less and less subtle. "Will of the people" "Fake news" and "Strong and Stable" to name a few, these were so blatant in his pushing his own political views onto others and done so in a mocking way that it takes over the story so it feels like I'm reading his own political views with some transformers stories woven in around them as opposed to the other way around.

With all that said he does write some good stories but I'm feeling that he is running out of steam and doing a bit of a lazy handwaving job to tie it all up in the end so much so that I don't feel much connection with the characters on an emotional level, that I did say when reading Marvel 80 or Armada etc. It feels far more like watching an episode of Friends which is comedy driven that tries to throw serious issues in for a change but never really pulls it off quite well so when you get to the end it just doesn't resonate with you.

Keen to get answers to where Skids went and the fate of Pharma and others such as Sentinel Prime, but fully prepared for the fact these will meet my expectations as well as the scheduled release dates of the issues...

Rant over :D
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Jun 27, 2018 4:42 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I don't think Roberts will touch on sentinel prime, in fact I don't think the titans returns stuff went down to well at all. So anything lingering will be completely forgotten. I also don't mind the characters being different as this is idw not marvel, the same that hot rod isn't rodimus from Energon. We also shouldn't want them the same, otherwise what's the point as their stories were concluded. What happens now doesn't take away from what's been done.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby skyshadowprimus » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:05 am

ZeroWolf wrote:I don't think Roberts will touch on sentinel prime, in fact I don't think the titans returns stuff went down to well at all. So anything lingering will be completely forgotten. I also don't mind the characters being different as this is idw not marvel, the same that hot rod isn't rodimus from Energon. We also shouldn't want them the same, otherwise what's the point as their stories were concluded. What happens now doesn't take away from what's been done.


While I agree in principal that we shouldn't ask for a total rehash, Transformers to be has been a primarily action themed story with other elements woven in.

It's moved along way away from that core premise to something that if done today as a fresh new show, probably wouldn't appeal to me as a child as it's too slapstick without much gravitas.

Guess in 20 years time our kids will be talking about this though as the golden era as we all do about Marvel's heyday 8-}
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Jun 27, 2018 6:32 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
Nah they'll remember the bay movies as the golden age :lol:
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Jun 27, 2018 8:48 am

Motto: "Guilty or Innocent?
Always Guilty..."
Weapon: Particle Beam Cannon
:-?

Okay, I've heard variations on this a lot now: "This book too overt with it's politics", "Get politics out of my comic" etc I often ascribe this attitude to people who are new to comics. Because political satire and allegory have been a thing in comics since they started in Newspapers.

If you want nuanced, subtle politics I'd advise you to read an actual book, because comics are a dynamic and visual medium and throw their message at you. The younger the audience the book is aimed at, the less depth there is to the message. Yet the message does still exist, it is simply over their heads.

Let's be frank, nothing about the politics of this era is new in any way. The internet has just made the naysayers more vocal.

Transformers can be taken as a parable on Warfare and it's escalation. A large scale study on the cause and effect of something so deeply tied into the history of our own species. It would be fascinating to see someone try to humanise War through this series. To educate on the cost of war and the toll it takes on life, resources etc

Without two robots mindlessly smashing against each other and without patronising guffaws. It hasn't been done yet, the writer hasn't risen to the challenge. Stories have been tailored at selling the next wave of toys or a writer telling the stories they want with Robot skins over it. Both of these facets can still be integrated into a more fixed narrative, a commitment to an all encompassing serialised storyline would require a big ask of HasTak and a singular uncompromising editorial/creative vision. Which I'm not entirely sure is achievable long term with a licensed property. Yet I am hopeful the Rebooted Universe can give as something new. Unbeholden to out of date G1 and the other dated series that can after it. Time will tell.
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Re: IDW Transformers: Lost Light Ongoing Discussion Thread

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Jun 27, 2018 11:54 am

Motto: "My past no longer binds my future..."
Weapon: Battle Blades
I think a more in depth look at what it means to be at war like you put would be good but I think it would get naysayed by a few still, because theses small number of people want a guilt free war, sadly.
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #346 - Gas Station Jamboree
Twincast / Podcast #346:
"Gas Station Jamboree"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Saturday, March 23rd, 2024

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