Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[ZeroWolf]

How would you end a war like that then? One were all the combatants are mentally corrupted to some degree...like prowl for instance. Marvel found a way, sunbrow found a way. Beast wars had a way but never explained it too well. Energon also ended the war at the beginning...then again at the end till Cybertron came about. Prime also ended it by having megs say "screw it, I quit!"

Haven't seen all if rid 2015 so don't know what they did.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

The point is it doesn't happen over night.

In our own history exists The Hundred Year War. Wherein due to life spans etc of the time, the generation who started the war were not the same as those at the end. To that end, it ceased to be War and becomes something more sinister than that, it became everyday life.

Now stretch that out to Four million years. Albeit I didn't like the concept, the NAILS demonstrated this to a degree. Any dissent towards the war would have left at the outset. After a couple million years, those still participating are there by choice. It became their entire existence. It would be commonplace for both Autobot and Decepticon to murder each other on sight and not think twice about it. From Wheelie to Sixshot.

All the psycho-babble about PTSD is largely redundant as they would mentally be long past that. Both sides would be exactly the same.

"Peace" for them, as we would understand it, would take millions of years more. With both sides being apathetically murderous in the interim.

[ZeroWolf]

But it's a bit much for a kids franchise and I have a gut feeling that many who complain about idw at the moment would complain about that as well...then again they would want the war to never end...can't win really

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Ultimately, I think that's why the -Ations was dumbed down into AHM. Furman blurred the line too much, wherein he seemed to realise that the tired old cliché of "The Heroic Autobots fighting The Evil Decepticons" doesn't really hold up to anyone beyond the age of 10.

Unless explicitly stated, ALL comics/cartoons/etc are aimed at kids. Yet that doesn't mean you have to patronise them with a condescending view of adult themes. It is part of the reason licensed properties such as Transformers are still not taken as seriously as even the more tradition comics of established publishers.

[ZeroWolf]

Well it was said that ahm was intended as a reboot, for that reason probably as well as wanting a more, back to basics idea. Hence old alt forms and megs into a gun.

If they had kept it as a reboot, would that mean that we would have settled into maybe a seasonal style with a reboot after a big arc? On the other hand I wonder what would have happened if they allowed Furman to finish properly and do the expansion...wheres a portal to a parallel universe when you need one.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Lest we forget, Megs got his gun mode back in the dreadful (and canon) Transformers/Avengers crossover...

I think at least with Furman's Expansion we would have gotten something a lot more interesting that CHAOS or Dark Cybertron

[ZeroWolf]

Lest we forget, Megs got his gun mode back in the dreadful (and canon) Transformers/Avengers crossover...

I think at least with Furman's Expansion we would have gotten something a lot more interesting that CHAOS or Dark Cybertron

I liked dark cybertron but chaos was abysmal, the deceptigod especially. I'd forgotten that avengers crossover and that it was canon...thanks for reminding me now I have to force myself to forget it again.

[Quint]

Except he didn't escape into the functionist universe, he was abandoned there. Or are you on about the thing with the Knights? If so he was 9n course for that judgment till getaway happened and then the djd attack. Also prime let it happen because that's who prime is. Had he ordered megs to die then he would be no better, killing isn't justice. Now maybe you would have preffered that they had his spark contained but then again would that have worked with his strange body work after dark cybertron?

Again, you're setting up false dichotomies here. The simple fact is Megatron has escaped punishment for his crimes and, more incredulously, been forgiven for them, both in-story and by some readers, it seems. There aren't two Megatrons, before and after. Just the one dude who perhaps had a change of thinking. However that guy still carries the responsibility of his actions.

Also... didn't Prime execute Galvatron (who had just surrendered)?

I think that speaks more to the contrived means of his "surrender". A publicly made propaganda speech, renouncing himself and his actions. The -Ations said it best, the only difference between the two factions in IDWverse is the brands they wear. Every planet that fell was crushed between the two factions, in equal measure. Everything other than one side achieving supremacy was deemed acceptable losses, to Megatron and Prime.

Among other things, the Autobots didn't engage in the infiltration process, which led to the extinction of myriad organic species through the Phase Six onslaught. Guys... this is textbook false equivalency, come on

Of course not, that is why they made him "Auto-Megatron". In the same respect as they didn't know how to "end" a four million year civil war of attrition, so you got faux peace instead.

Yeeeeeah... specious reasoning there. See above.

[Rodimus Prime]

In my opinion, Dark Cybertron was the highlight of the last reboot. No single story arc was as good, either in MTMTE or RID. A few came close, but none surpassed it. I had high hopes for both Combiner Wars and Dying of the Light, but they both fell short. And now that apparently the Unicron story will be connected to Dark Cybertron through Shockwave, it might end up even more pivotal in the IDWverse, depending on how the Unicron story ends.

[Va'al]

The weekend brings us not, not two, but three previews for new comics from the Transformers universe (and what is left from the Hasbro Universe too, I suppose) of IDW Publishing comics!

The next preview, mirrored below with description and pages, is directly from IDW Publishing via their Issuu documents, and features the next issue in the Lost Light saga with number 20, and part 2 of Crucible, in which we find out more about Grand Architects, Scraplets, Mutineers, deranged plans, and head towards Rodimus vs Getaway! Check it out, and join the conversation in the Energon Pub before its release next week.

Rodimus vs. Getaway! Finally!

[ZeroWolf]

Well the sparkeaters were beaten quite quickly...and it's going to be so good when roddy punches getaway...when he fails to get-away

[AllNewSuperRobot]

I think that speaks more to the contrived means of his "surrender". A publicly made propaganda speech, renouncing himself and his actions. The -Ations said it best, the only difference between the two factions in IDWverse is the brands they wear. Every planet that fell was crushed between the two factions, in equal measure. Everything other than one side achieving supremacy was deemed acceptable losses, to Megatron and Prime.

Among other things, the Autobots didn't engage in the infiltration process, which led to the extinction of myriad organic species through the Phase Six onslaught. Guys... this is textbook false equivalency, come on

Of course not, that is why they made him "Auto-Megatron". In the same respect as they didn't know how to "end" a four million year civil war of attrition, so you got faux peace instead.

Yeeeeeah... specious reasoning there. See above.

Cute but no

When you actually read between the lines of what's in print, your entire counterpoint is based on the premise that the Autobots were not just as equally entrenched in the same worlds as the Decepticons. Which is nonsense.

They were on these worlds together. The Autobots were never fighting to free these worlds, they were fighting the Decepticons on just another battlefield. Each trying to hamper the resources of the other. The inhabitants of each world were irrelevant to both sides, a means to an end.

Think back to their discussions on Phase Six, the Autobots were sketchy on the details, because by that point they had already written off that particular front and moved onto the next.

Again, this isn't me pulling out silly ideas out of thin air, this is based on the printed page. Interesting to read none the less, but you're wrong in your assumptions.

[ZeroWolf]

Yeah it's been hinted that the bots hands are far from clean, after all, from what I can recall, only humans are bothered by what faction the tfs are, all other aliens hate then both...why would that be I wonder?

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Exactly. At the end of the day, to the outsider looking in, this is a Civil War between Cybertonians. Colours may be different but they are the same race.

[Quint]

I think that speaks more to the contrived means of his "surrender". A publicly made propaganda speech, renouncing himself and his actions. The -Ations said it best, the only difference between the two factions in IDWverse is the brands they wear. Every planet that fell was crushed between the two factions, in equal measure. Everything other than one side achieving supremacy was deemed acceptable losses, to Megatron and Prime.

Among other things, the Autobots didn't engage in the infiltration process, which led to the extinction of myriad organic species through the Phase Six onslaught. Guys... this is textbook false equivalency, come on

Of course not, that is why they made him "Auto-Megatron". In the same respect as they didn't know how to "end" a four million year civil war of attrition, so you got faux peace instead.

Yeeeeeah... specious reasoning there. See above.

Cute but no

When you actually read between the lines of what's in print, your entire counterpoint is based on the premise that the Autobots were not just as equally entrenched in the same worlds as the Decepticons. Which is nonsense.

They were on these worlds together. The Autobots were never fighting to free these worlds, they were fighting the Decepticons on just another battlefield. Each trying to hamper the resources of the other. The inhabitants of each world were irrelevant to both sides, a means to an end.

Think back to their discussions on Phase Six, the Autobots were sketchy on the details, because by that point they had already written off that particular front and moved onto the next.

Again, this isn't me pulling out silly ideas out of thin air, this is based on the printed page. Interesting to read none the less, but you're wrong in your assumptions.

Your argument is becoming still more nebulous , I'm afraid.

At this point you're going to have to show me specific references. Which issue states or, ha, implies "between the lines", that Prime's Autobot army directly and intentionally committed genocide

If it helps you as a starting point, try addressing Rewind's rationale for killing Megatron in MTME 38. No arbitrary abstractions such as 'reading between lines' required

Also, try not to refer to any unreliable narrators, even if there are such examples of the convention available to you. Instead, rationalise the actions in the comics depicted firsthand, such as in All Hail Megatron. Where is the Autobot equivalent?

Good luck!

[ZeroWolf]

You're trying very hard to put the bots in a good light. Why do all alien races hate them and not just the cons?

[Quint]

The truth is, I haven't had to try very hard at all.

It's just a good-natured debate, anyway.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Trying a bit too hard. Veering towards Fanboying, which being the lowest opinion of all, I generally refuse to engage with as it's pointless.

Anyway, There is nothing nebulous in what I'm referring to, you just have to have read it. It's a little thing called "The -Ations", it began with Infiltration and (technically) went on to Devastation. Read it, it's all there.
A relevant quote based on your limiting criteria would be the entire exchange between Megatron and Optimus Prime in Escalation. Also Drift's need to conceal his appearance from other races in his mini-series of a couple years ago (Empire of Stone). Literally any dialogue in which the Galactic Council is mentioned.
The Aequitas trials referred to in Last Stand of The Wreckers etc etc etc etc
We all know AHM was a (poor) reboot designed to bring IDWverse closer to a low-brow "easy to understand" Sunbow level. As such nothing within bears too much relevance to what came before or after.

[Randomhero]

Anyone think Banzaitron is gonna show up? He’s been off the grid for 10 years and he was obsessed with the magnificence and any kind of advanced tech

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Anyone think Banzaitron is gonna show up? He’s been off the grid for 10 years and he was obsessed with the magnificence and any kind of advanced tech

It would be interesting and a good call back, but I think much like Gigatron, we won't be seeing him again in this continuity.

[Randomhero]

Anyone think Banzaitron is gonna show up? He’s been off the grid for 10 years and he was obsessed with the magnificence and any kind of advanced tech

It would be interesting and a good call back, but I think much like Gigatron, we won't be seeing him again in this continuity.

Well gigatron was just a giant nothingness. Banzaitron was actually a character. He ran the Decepticon secret intelligence and was all thought out the -ation series. I don’t know, I know there’s not a lot of time left but it would be nice to see him show back up in the final arc of lost light as being part of the the architects plans. I just reread spotlight hotrod and said “Oh wow that jerk never came back.”

[AllNewSuperRobot]

That spotlight was one of the best and (alongside Spotlight Doubledealer) really gave Hot Rod a standout debut.

Banzaitron, Gigatron, Sixshot and Thunderwing all boarded The Revenge, helmed by Ramjet. Later, using Transwarp engines, they have escaped this reality into the next...

[Randomhero]

Except ramjet, thundering and sixshot are all confirmed dead.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Except ramjet, thundering and sixshot are all confirmed dead.

...Sigh


Also, unless you have the printed panel with the demise of Thunderwing and Sixshot, they're not dead. It's just lazy writers who can't be bothered to use them.

[ZeroWolf]

At least ramjet got a fun confirmed death

Do we have any good leads on who the architect is then?