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Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

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Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby RAR » Sun Jan 24, 2016 7:29 pm

I was wondering do people thing is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones and if it continues to be the case (if you except the premise) ?

Or to turn it around is it a problem is Hasbro and or Takara Transformers dip further in quality in comparison to 3rd party ones ?
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Mkall » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:09 pm

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It hasn't been a problem thus far, and I think 3rd parties are becoming a problem to other 3rd parties far quicker than any of them are to Hasbro.

At this stage, I think HasTak are using them as a form of market research. I'm betting their reading all the boards and messages like "OMG: we need a MP <insert pseudo-popular character>" and watching the reactions.

I'm pretty certain in my assertion that the 3rd Party combiner hype that TFC's and MakeToy's Devastator started lead to Combiner Wars.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Glarryg » Sun Jan 24, 2016 8:44 pm

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It's not a problem for us, the consumers.

I think it would take a lot to make third parties competitive enough to make the official companies take action. Prices on third party products would have to be much lower to make the general population buy enough of their product to dip into HasTak's earnings; that's what it would probably take to make them do something about the third parties. And when you're talking $170 for an official Devastator versus $600 for a third party version, there's very little chance of that happening.

To put it another way, I seriously doubt the collectors' market will ever be bigger than the parents-buying-toys-for-their-kids market (or whatever you want to call it). I buy third party stuff to collect it. I but Hasbro stuff to collect it, too. I also buy Hasbro stuff for my kids to play with. But I have never bought a third party figure with the intention of letting my kids play with it; they're too expensive and difficult to replace.

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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Sodan-1 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 9:42 pm

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Are they though?

To carry on from Mkall's point it's clear Hasbro and Takara have been paying attention to what's been going on in the third party world. There's a lot of things Hasbro said they wouldn't be touching (pink-car Arcee, combiners, Dinobots, Headmasters) and they've reversed those decisions in the wake of third party activity in those areas. Figure density is always going to be a weakness when your producing figures in their thousands at a budget price, but they are cheaper, simpler and more fun to handle.

In hindsight, superior third party figures didn't harm official ones three or four years ago at a time when Hasbro were reducing the size of their figures, I really don't think there's any danger now. In fact I find myself wondering if the improving designs and range of the official figures is closing the gap on third parties to the point where they might be the ones in trouble.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 10:52 pm

I can't see how it's really a problem. If 3Ps cost an arm and a leg they ought to be worth it.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby fenrir72 » Sun Jan 24, 2016 11:04 pm

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Not really a problem. But if opportunity presents between the official product (lets say Metroplex vs the Maketoys version) and the former is cheaper and bigger, I'd get the former, especially if well designed.

Devastar too, I lean towards Maketoys but waited for the official one.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Agamemnon » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:04 am

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Most of the 3P figures I have purchased I did because there wasn't an official one available. At the time. Most of my 3P figures were purchased long before the Hasbro version came out. Examples are:

Springer - While FP's was fantastic for the day (disintegrating knees aside; mine are okay, but I don't move him) Hasbro's was far better, in my opinion. If the two had come out together, I would have chosen Hasbro and never bought FP's Springer.

Insecticons - I still don't have a complete of same-generation Insecticons from Hasbro. And even if I did, I enjoy FP's take so much that I doubt I would ever actually replace them. Besides, the nature of Insecticons is troop building, right? And FP's Insecticons came out long before any of Hasbro's.

Similar arguments will be made for the Headmasters I purchased with the Titan Returns line coming out. There was a great time difference, with one exception.

Brainstorm - The FP version is just so awesome, that I don't think I would replace him with my Hasbro version. I still have Hasbro's and I like it, but this is the only example I can come up with where the 3P is clearly superior, factoring in cost for a value to me. (As Gauntlet stated, being more expensive, they aught to be worth that increase in price.)

Metroplex - I love Hasbro's Metroplex (though it could have been better!) Yet, when I saw MakeToy's version....I had to have it. But at the cost of both, I just could not justify doing both. So, when Metrotitan came out, I jumped on that to have two different takes with two different characters, and get an awesome mold from MT.

Otherwise, I have to say that in the last couple of years, I have stuck to more fringe characters with 3P. Abominus, Sharkticons (I got both sets...troop building!!), Predicons, Dinobots, Throttlebots, etc. All have been stuff that Hasbro does not plan on releasing in the near future. Because of the direction of 3P stuff, and thanks to a very large "classics" collection with few voids, and really none that are mainstream characters, I've really backed off on 3P purchases. I don't have room for MPs with such a large collection. Outside of "Classics" takes on obscure characters (thank you for the DJD, MMC) I'm only collecting legends to go with my city bots. And even there, 3P prices are about killing me....

Sorry for the novel. I've been thinking about this a lot lately as my purchases (and interest) for 3P stuff has diminished.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Rated X » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:26 pm

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I think 3rd partys are still going strong. Theyre dipping into the MP world and people are clearly buying into them. CHUG 3rd party stuff is moving a little slower but good stuff is plentiful. I am buying. The FP Dinoking set, the FP dinobots, and their ongoing function X headmaster line. I also bought MMCs Impactor, Turmoil, and DJD characters. I will be skipping their Lockdown, Drift, and nova prime however because I already own those characters in CHUG form. However I am extremely happy with my new 3rd party Astrotrain that scales perfect with hasbro blitzwing. And Im proud to say im probably the only guy that posts on these boards who totally snubbed hasbro/takara devastator due to their deviation from the G1 cartoon combiner scale. I get it, they were going for the mining vehicle's scale over the robot scale, but that doesnt work for me so im happy sticking with Hercules and G2 Giant unless some KO company decides to downsize the mold to scale with other CW combiners. When hasbro gives me something that scales properly, ill gladly buy it. So for me their upcoming blaster/soundwave will not be purchased. I dont think 3rd partys will ever be a threat to hasbro because there are enough "official only" fans who will glorify anything hasbro makes no matter how much it sucks. And then hasbro also got the kids market on lock. Collectors make a small percentage of their sales. But its big enough that they are trying to sell kids on cartoon accurate G1 characters and unify the two markets. Thats why we get a huge kiddie sized devastator and a headmaster blaster that turns into a base. Its decisions like that that makes 3rd partys thrive financially.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby shajaki » Mon Jan 25, 2016 1:31 pm

Motto: "A man who wants nothing is invincible."
I'm not sure I entirely understand this thread....

Is it a problem for who?
And "better" is in the eye of the beholder. So.... :-?
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby guarayakha » Mon Jan 25, 2016 8:28 pm

shajaki wrote:I'm not sure I entirely understand this thread....

Is it a problem for who?
And "better" is in the eye of the beholder. So.... :-?


It's not going to be a problem for anyone (at least, for the time being)

Consumer - We get spoilt for choices.
3rd Party- Yaay the market stays for that much longer and they make money.
Hastak- Continues dominating the core market (kids) and now has an excuse to charge insane prices for "premium" repaints, because collectors, wooo!

It's only going to be a real problem when 3p products starts selling at the same price range as HasTak's, which is probably never.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby william-james88 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 12:49 pm

Motto: "'till All Are One"
Just curious, I see this title of this thread: IS IT 'A PROBLEM' IF THIRD PARTY TRANSFORMERS ARE BETTER THAN THE OFFICIAL ONES ?

And the firs tthing I wonder is : with the added dedication, expenses, parts and lack of limitations since these are made for collectors and not kids, shouldnt 3P always have to be better than official ones.

If the oficial ones are better, then there is no point to 3P, right?
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Andrius » Tue Jan 26, 2016 4:04 pm

william-james88 wrote:Just curious, I see this title of this thread: IS IT 'A PROBLEM' IF THIRD PARTY TRANSFORMERS ARE BETTER THAN THE OFFICIAL ONES ?

And the firs tthing I wonder is : with the added dedication, expenses, parts and lack of limitations since these are made for collectors and not kids, shouldnt 3P always have to be better than official ones.

If the oficial ones are better, then there is no point to 3P, right?



Well... the argument raised by those questions makes little sense. For one, Takara's Masterpiece Transformers are ALSO made for collectors and not kids. So in that regard, they're on similar playing fields. Some of the older CHUG-inspired 3rd Party offerings were indeed superior, but those are now longer in the majority of what's being produced. I don't think anyone can compare a Maketoys or Fansproject combiner to a Hasbro one, but that isn't really a competition then. I think the greater issue at hand is "will a 3rd Party MP Ironhide or Shockwave or Grimlock be superior to the 'official' release". I think we can assume in certain cases it will be and often it won't. 3rd Party companies have fewer limitations, it's true. But they also have fewer resources. So I think this will be very much case-by-case.

Secondly, if the official ones are better -- which they typically are -- there is STILL a point to 3rd Party offerings. They tend to see more rapid release and often cater to the current demands of fans a bit more, whereas Takara is somewhat committed to working its way through G1 year by year (with numerous exceptions). 3rd party toys also often touch on niches of collecting that Takara would probably have little interest in. MMC, for example, has focused heavily on comics-based toys for a while now and you can be sure Takara is unlikely to release something that turns into a giant steamboat or a torture chair.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Ironhidensh » Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:58 pm

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Mkall wrote:It hasn't been a problem thus far, and I think 3rd parties are becoming a problem to other 3rd parties far quicker than any of them are to Hasbro.

At this stage, I think HasTak are using them as a form of market research. I'm betting their reading all the boards and messages like "OMG: we need a MP <insert pseudo-popular character>" and watching the reactions.

I'm pretty certain in my assertion that the 3rd Party combiner hype that TFC's and MakeToy's Devastator started lead to Combiner Wars.

The thing for me is, if Hasbro/Takara are indeed using the 3rd party market for research, then the are ignoring it.

3rd party product sells, and at high prices. This should be telling them to step up efforts to provide more product for the collectors market. It feels like they are ignoring a vast money making market. Especially Hasbro, as when they do offer a Masterpiece, they make it a TRU exclusive.

Ah well, to me, a Transformer is a Transformer. Official or not, makes little difference to me. If the figure is awesome, and represents a character I care about, I'll buy it.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby william-james88 » Tue Jan 26, 2016 9:18 pm

Motto: "'till All Are One"
Ironhidensh wrote:3rd party product sells, and at high prices. This should be telling them to step up efforts to provide more product for the collectors market. It feels like they are ignoring a vast money making market. Especially Hasbro, as when they do offer a Masterpiece, they make it a TRU exclusive.


We dont have the numbers on how much they sell, do we?. They sell out, but they dont produce many. I would be very surprised if their individual runs exceed 10 000 units. If we dont know the amount, then we cant really judge how big an impact they are towards hasbro.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Ironhidensh » Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:04 pm

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william-james88 wrote:
Ironhidensh wrote:3rd party product sells, and at high prices. This should be telling them to step up efforts to provide more product for the collectors market. It feels like they are ignoring a vast money making market. Especially Hasbro, as when they do offer a Masterpiece, they make it a TRU exclusive.


We dont have the numbers on how much they sell, do we?. They sell out, but they dont produce many. I would be very surprised if their individual runs exceed 10 000 units. If we dont know the amount, then we cant really judge how big an impact they are towards hasbro.

I think we can. Everytime Hasbro actually does offer a Masterpiece, a legit one (acid storm and various year of stupid animal releases don't count to me), they sell out, and sell out fast. It feels like rather than put effort in it, Hasbro prefers to sell us the cheapest crap they can. Hasbro is a big enough company, that they can turn out quality product and still make a killing off of it.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby RAR » Sat Jan 30, 2016 1:06 am

In case you were wondering I made this thread party because some charcters have so many optimus for example Ironhide or the Coneheads.

So I was thinking things like how many people won't buy an MP Ironhide if they have one of the right sort of size - how many people will sell the one they have and buy an "official one" instead.

Also there is the thing about Coneheads.
What Takara is going to be doing is very nearly identical to the igear ones, there is smaller versions based on the comics look and there is even larger Toyworld ones soon too.

I realise every one ran away screaming from Citizen Stack once MP Ultra Magnus came out, but speaking for myself I can't see a reason not to buy a Quakewave simply as an MP Shockwave exists. especially if they are different heights.

There is also an idea or mode of thought I myslef have which I notice not very many others have.. which is this.

Can't you decide you want to collect all of a specific manufacture's products ?
like Say Maketoys for example. if you did then even if Hasbro/Takara came out with an MP Hound you'd still want theirs.

I know some people used to be a little like that about Fansprojects at one time, but I don't here it as much now.

I would for example say I'm pretty close to buying everything Toyworld or Perfect Effect makes. So I don't think Oh I'll buy this to fill a gap in my Transformers collection - I think I'll buy this for my 'Make toys' collection. (not that I don't do the former as well).

Likewise there is the issue of size - Unique Toys Predaking is quite modestly sized where as the Feral Rex KO is enormous - so perhaps some people might want a toy for it's size whoever makes it.

Also I was wondering since Toyworld did such a nice job on the Throttlebots - if Hasbro ever made their own they'd need to be little ones rather than MP or Deluxe scale I would guess.

Also I look at mania King or some of the other as yet unreleased Galvatrons and ALL OF THEM appeal more to me than the Titan Returns one does so far.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Agamemnon » Sat Jan 30, 2016 9:05 am

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I used to collect everything from one manufacturer (FansProject). But then there were so many more awesome choices out there, and third party is expensive.

Personally, I do this: is the figure (official or 3rd party) a character I already have? How expensive is it? How cool does it look? That formula has led me to have only Hasbro Roadbuster (FP's was too ugly, in my opinion), both FP and Hasbro Springer (Hasbro with my "Classics"), both FP and Hasbro Brainstorm (FP's is in the "Classics" display this time), and about 7 versions of Onslaught (and I don't really care that much for this character).

I will say that I am primarily a Classics/Generations collector, with a smattering of MP. But, my philosophy with MP is to go official. A lot of the 3P MP's are more classics takes at MP size (I can't even say MP scale with the new HUGE coneheads). Others are dangerously close to KO territory (iGear), though not to start that debate again. I've always felt that MP was a very niche area, holding to some very specific standards: Cartoon accuracy, real world vehicle accuracy (yeah, this works for Shockwave, doesn't it? :-P ), and a scale with MP-10. That said, I do own one 3P MP: Huffer (I forget which one I grabbed). But in his case, I wanted him for my Classics shelf because Hasbro hasn't given us a decent one yet, and I really don't expect one. He sizes very nicely to Classics Bumblebee. :-D
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Sat Jan 30, 2016 8:13 pm

I admit, I still want an official product, even if I have a 3rd party product that I still like. I have to admit, Titans Return Galvatron is inferior to the Mania Kind I already own .... but I'll still get it.

But it's not really a "problem". I still like what I got, even if a new version comes out. And it's the same attitude with older official stuff I own.
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Re: Is it 'a problem' if Third Party Transformers are better than the Official ones ?

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Fri Feb 05, 2016 4:36 pm

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To me, it is not a problem if a 3rd party toy is superior. They a lot of times are, emphasis on most a lot but not all. Hasbro Springer is the best representation of the character we have ever gotten in my opinion. Takara added some new paint to appeal to others, but it is still well worth it, and not much more expensive.

The difference is the price.

3rd party combiners usually cost almost $500, and to me that is outlandish. I have now bought 5 full combiners from Hasbro for about that. To me, that is where hasbro and takara are better. I bought Superion for $80ish for all 6 members, and they all do a great job of what they are supposed to do, they are really fun, fun to mess with, transform and combine, and the combined mode is very well done. A 3rd party Superion would actually, at this rate, cost me 3 paychecks (I only work about 14 hours a week at minimum wage, school and all) and the hasbro one only cost me about a whole paycheck. That is a big difference. I can afford to go and guy the characters I love and eventually get versions of said characters. It has been a huge thing for the Lost Light crew. speaking of which, that my first blaster? costs the price of a deluxe. it may be cool and extremely accurate, but an accessory is the price of a deluxe??? wow.

In short: 3rd party figures should be better cause they are usually 5-7 times the price. we can all blame hasbro for being cheap, and Wheeljack is a case where they definitely are, but overall they are much more affordable and to me fun. :BOT:
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #345 - The Roast
Twincast / Podcast #345:
"The Roast"
MP3 · iTunes · RSS · View · Discuss · Ask
Posted: Saturday, March 9th, 2024

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