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Your link didn't work. Sent me to YouTube but there was an error message at the top of the page.

I actully own the Batman Beyond movie unfortuantly I can't watch watch it for 2 reasons. One being that I don't know where it is and two being that even if I did know where it was I don't have a working VCR anymore and I have it on VHS. If I knew were it was and had it on DVD I wouldn't have a problem.

Anyway... There's no reason to belive that Tim quit right off the bat. Chances are Bruce did try to forbid him from being Robin again but he went out as Robin on his own time and probly retired a little later.

It's allso possible that if Joker did indeed die that thoughs events have not yet happened in the Justice League series. As far as I know Tim has not been seen in the series for all we know he could still be 13 in the series. If there is an episode of Justice League that shows Tim Drake let me know the title and I'll look it up later.

That being said Mystery of the Batwoman could just be part of it's own universe and not really be conected with the story line of Batman/JLU/Beyond. Of course if it is conected that would mean Bruce actully stole his future costume design from Batwoman sence she does have a full face mask and the red bat symbol found on the Beyond costume. Having not seen the movie though I really have no idea.

BTW the web site I liked you to is part of Kids WB's web site from when the series still aired on their station. They no longer have it linked on their main page but they never actully took the site down.

I think maybe the Director's Cut DVD I have also has Tim shooting the Joker...

But I might be confusing it with the copy I watched on the computer back in college...

Saber Prime wrote:Your link didn't work. Sent me to YouTube but there was an error message at the top of the page.

Sorry about that here it is again.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EUsVwW_g ... re=related

Saber Prime wrote:Anyway... There's no reason to belive that Tim quit right off the bat. Chances are Bruce did try to forbid him from being Robin again but he went out as Robin on his own time and probly retired a little later.

This is not ment as a insult but....If you knew anything about the character of Bruce Wayne/Batman then you would completly understand that theres plenty of reason to believe that if Bruce told Tim that he could not be Robin then Tim was no longer Robin.

I know that your overall understanding of these characters is soly from the toon but even in the toon Batman was a total control freak.

Also older Barbra's and older Tims dialog confirms that Tim never wore the suit again after that night.

Saber Prime wrote:It's allso possible that if Joker did indeed die that thoughs events have not yet happened in the Justice League series. As far as I know Tim has not been seen in the series for all we know he could still be 13 in the series. If there is an episode of Justice League that shows Tim Drake let me know the title and I'll look it up later.

That being said Mystery of the Batwoman could just be part of it's own universe and not really be conected with the story line of Batman/JLU/Beyond.

The problem with your theory is that Bruce Timm ,the leed producer of the Batman movies and the JL serries, officaly stated that "Mystery of the Batwoman" is firmly set in the same continuity as the JL serries and the Batman solo serries and specificly inbetween seasons 1 and 2 of the Justic League serries.

The fact that "Mystery of the Batwoman" is set before JL season 2 and before the JL Unlimited's 2 seasons and Tim is around 16 in "MOTB" and Joker is still alive in JLU how can it be the past of "Beyond"????

It just doest fit.Beyond's timeline cant fit into the timeline of JLU.

And to answer your other question....I dont think that Tim ever appeared in the JL serries.But I dont see how that matters since he did appear in a show linked to its continuity.

Saber Prime wrote: Of course if it is conected that would mean Bruce actully stole his future costume design from Batwoman sence she does have a full face mask and the red bat symbol found on the Beyond costume. Having not seen the movie though I really have no idea.

You could say that but the red Bat design and full face mask was used in the comics some time before the Beyons serries came out.

Saber Prime wrote:BTW the web site I liked you to is part of Kids WB's web site from when the series still aired on their station. They no longer have it linked on their main page but they never actully took the site down.

Kool and again thanks.

In the episode where Diana, Bruce, and John go time travelling, and in the episodes after it, doesn't Bruce make a big deal about the future they visited not necessarily being their future?

Caelus wrote:In the episode where Diana, Bruce, and John go time travelling, and in the episodes after it, doesn't Bruce make a big deal about the future they visited not necessarily being their future?

I dont know if you can say he made a big deal of it but he did say a few words to that effect.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Caelus wrote:In the episode where Diana, Bruce, and John go time travelling, and in the episodes after it, doesn't Bruce make a big deal about the future they visited not necessarily being their future?

I dont know if you can say he made a big deal of it but he did say a few words to that effect.

I think it had more to do with the way they time traveled. Reality at that time was falling apart basically so. Future Bruce allso stated that he never remembered meeting his future self.

Honestly it's hard to say anything for sure. Batman Beyond could be showing multiple different futures.

That episode is definatly one that breaks the time line. Return of the Joker is probly another future because it's seperate from the series. They never even mentioned the events of the movie in any other Beyond based cartoons.

Allso I think you're the one who doesn't understand Batman's character. If he was as much of a controll freak as you claim Dick Grayson would have never been Robin in the first place. Dick only became Robin by fighting Bruce and going agenst what Bruce whanted.

Saber Prime wrote:I think it had more to do with the way they time traveled. Reality at that time was falling apart basically so. Future Bruce allso stated that he never remembered meeting his future self.

Honestly it's hard to say anything for sure. Batman Beyond could be showing multiple different futures.

Anything is possible.

Saber Prime wrote:That episode is definatly one that breaks the time line. Return of the Joker is probly another future because it's seperate from the series. They never even mentioned the events of the movie in any other Beyond based cartoons.

Actually they kind of did.

In the JLU episode "Epilogue" Terry referrs to the events of Return of the Joker.

Saber Prime wrote:Allso I think you're the one who doesn't understand Batman's character. If he was as much of a controll freak as you claim Dick Grayson would have never been Robin in the first place. Dick only became Robin by fighting Bruce and going agenst what Bruce whanted.

You just prove my point.You dont understand Batman's character.But like I said before...dont take that as an insult.

You dont read comics so theres only so much you can possibly understand about the characters in question from the cartoon and movie interpertations of those characters.

The events you just mention only happened in the "Batman Forever" movie and never happened in any other medeium for these characters.

In the comics it didnt happened that way nor did it in any of the cartoons.

And the Batman films before "Begins" were notorious for writting Batman and the other characters doing out of character things.

Even Batmans character in "Batman Begins" was out of character.

The Batman anumated serries trew JLU's version of Batman is considered to be the best adaptation of the comic book character Batman.

Now I'm not saying that ether Robin has never had a fight with Batman or has never disobayed an order in the comics but ultimatly if Bruce ever told them they cant be Robin anymore the the order stood.

When Batman fired Dick as Robin and told him to leave Gotham he did just that.He went to NYC and became Nightwing.

Even Superman has had to take orders from Batman from time to time.

The only Robin to completly disobay that order was the 2nd Robin aka "Jason Todd" and his disobaying the order to be inactive lead to the Joker killing him.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:In the JLU episode "Epilogue" Terry referrs to the events of Return of the Joker.

I haven't seen all of that episode. Been trying to find it but can only find clips from the episode. Seems to revolve around how Bruce found Bat Hound as far as I could tell from the clips I seen.

You dont read comics so theres only so much you can possibly understand about the characters in question from the cartoon and movie interpertations of those characters.

The events you just mention only happened in the "Batman Forever" movie and never happened in any other medeium for these characters.

Actully it was the same in the Batman cartoon. He even did the same thing with Tim. The only one he didn't try to controll was Barbra and that might only be because he didn't know who she was till later on.

Batman never wanted a side kick originally and considered himself a loner, Superman even mentions this after he met Tim saying "You sure picked a nice partner for a guy who works alone."

I may not know about COMIC Batman but the Cartoon and Movie, if he really had any controll over his side kicks non of them would have ever been his side kicks. Barbra might of for a while till Bruce figured out who she was but that's it.

And the Batman films before "Begins" were notorious for writting Batman and the other characters doing out of character things.

Only "Batman and Robin" had them really out of character and that wasn't all wrighting. Most of it had to do with the fact that George didn't actully care about the movie and was only there for the pay check and that showed on camera. I never saw George as Bruce Wayne/Batman I just saw him as an guy saying his lines and not really acting.

When Batman fired Dick as Robin and told him to leave Gotham he did just that.He went to NYC and became Nightwing.

I don't know about the comic Dick Greyson but in the cartoon that's not how that happen.

There was an episode with Tim Drake teaming up with Nightwing in the cartoon where he ended up asking about Dick's past. That's actully the same episode Tim found out Dick was the previous Robin. (He knew there was another Robin before him but Bruce never said who it was.)

In the episode Batman was interrigating a man in front of his family and scareing the hell out of the man's young daughter. Dick as Robin in the flash back tried to get Batman to stop. After that he quit being Robin and left Gothim not because Bruce told him too but because he no longer agreed with his "methods" and wanted to break apart from the duo.

The episode is listed on the site I linked you too before, I just can't remember the title.

I allso just remembered that the movie Return of the Joker allso showed Harly Quin falling to her death but her older counterpart was seen in Batman Beyond. There's another example of someone dieing and comming back.

Superman is bigger controll freak than Batman is. He doesn't even really have a partner. Supergirl was forced to stay at his parrent's farm, Superboy has never appeared in the series, and Steel had a one time apperance.

This might not apply to comic Superman and I haven't watched any of the movies sence I was a little kid so don't know much about his movie counterpart. In the cartoon though Superman is portrayed as a much bigger controll freak than Batman is.

Oh I allso remember some time before the movie came out some did a concept drawing for the future Dick Greyson for his appearance in the movie. He obviously never made it into the movie and I don't think there were any scenes animated with him, only that concept drawing. The guy allso had a drawing made for Wonder Woman who was originally supose to guest star on either Batman or Superman's solo series but she never made in into the cartoon before Justice League.

I don't know how much of the cartoon you've watched but I thought I'd allso point out Aquaman's original appearance on the Superman cartoon had him in his original costume where as his Justice League appearance had him with the beard and hook. There's allso the difference of Kyal Ryner being the Green Lanturn in Superman's solo series while John made his first appearance in the Justice Leage cartoon. Other than thoughs two characters I think everyone else on Justice League is the same as they were (if they apperared at all) in the Batman Superman Adventures.

Saber Prime wrote:I haven't seen all of that episode. Been trying to find it but can only find clips from the episode. Seems to revolve around how Bruce found Bat Hound as far as I could tell from the clips I seen.

The episode mostly revolved around how Terry found out that he was really Bruce Waynes son.

Saber Prime wrote:Actully it was the same in the Batman cartoon. He even did the same thing with Tim. The only one he didn't try to controll was Barbra and that might only be because he didn't know who she was till later on.

I think your allowing your opinion to clowd what was shown in the cartoon.

After Dick almost caught Zucco Bruce trained him in both fighting skills and in the way of being a detective and then had the Robin suit made.Thats a far cry from how "Forver" Dick forced the partnership in that movie.

And yes Tim borrowed the suit from the cave with out premission but Bruce also trained Tim after Tim helped out catching Two face.So again that not the same thing that was done in that film.

And since Bruce trained both Dick and Tim its safe to say that he "allowed" them to be Robins.

And yes I said allowed because when Bruce felt that there should no longer be a Robin he forced Tim to quit.

Saber Prime wrote:Batman never wanted a side kick originally and considered himself a loner, Superman even mentions this after he met Tim saying "You sure picked a nice partner for a guy who works alone."

That ones open to debate.From a psychological point of view a strong argument can be made for saying that Batman doesnt really want to work alone.

He's always surrounding himself with a substitute family that he trains to follow in his footsteps.Many would say that is his sub-consous trying to fill a void.

Saber Prime wrote:I may not know about COMIC Batman but the Cartoon and Movie, if he really had any controll over his side kicks non of them would have ever been his side kicks. Barbra might of for a while till Bruce figured out who she was but that's it.

Trust me Bruce figured out who she was pretty quickly.

Saber Prime wrote:Only "Batman and Robin" had them really out of character and that wasn't all wrighting. Most of it had to do with the fact that George didn't actully care about the movie and was only there for the pay check and that showed on camera. I never saw George as Bruce Wayne/Batman I just saw him as an guy saying his lines and not really acting.

Your kidding me right?????All the Batman films had Batman acting way out of character.Batman alone was completly out of character in most of the films.I'l sight just a few.

[1] Having a father and son like relation ship with Alfread was out of character.

[2] Having a brother like relationship with Dick was out of character

[3] Cracking jokes while in costume was way out of character

[4] Bruce tells a doctor who he is.

And now for the biggest out of character thing that was done in all the Batman films........Drum roll please!!!!!!!!!!!

Batman Kills in the movies!!!!!!!

I think the only movie where Batman did not kill was "Batman and Robin".

As for George....I never got the impresion that he just showed up for the check.I dont blame him for that movie I blame the director completely.

Based on interviews I saw him give on the movie I felt that George really cared about the job he was doing in that film.He even continued working on the film with a broken foot......something he didnt have to do just to make his money.

Saber Prime wrote:I allso just remembered that the movie Return of the Joker allso showed Harly Quin falling to her death but her older counterpart was seen in Batman Beyond. There's another example of someone dieing and comming back.

No....thats an example of someone that should have died.When she fell to what should have been her death they said they never found a body so theres more then enough reason to believe that she could have survived.

And seeing her older counterpart proves that she did in fact survived her fall.

And besides it was at the end of Return of the Joker that they show older Harly.

Saber Prime wrote:Superman is bigger controll freak than Batman is. He doesn't even really have a partner. Supergirl was forced to stay at his parrent's farm, Superboy has never appeared in the series, and Steel had a one time apperance.

Superboy could not appear for leagal reasons and Steel had more then one apperance but I think he was only the main focuse of one episode.Steel showed up a few time in the JLU serries.

Saber Prime wrote:This might not apply to comic Superman and I haven't watched any of the movies sence I was a little kid so don't know much about his movie counterpart. In the cartoon though Superman is portrayed as a much bigger controll freak than Batman is.

I never felt that but everyones entitled to their opinions.

Saber Prime wrote:Oh I allso remember some time before the movie came out some did a concept drawing for the future Dick Greyson for his appearance in the movie. He obviously never made it into the movie and I don't think there were any scenes animated with him, only that concept drawing. The guy allso had a drawing made for Wonder Woman who was originally supose to guest star on either Batman or Superman's solo series but she never made in into the cartoon before Justice League.

I remember some drawing like your described but I dont remember that much of a difference in "future Dick Greyson's" apperance but who know if we're talking about the same drawings.

Saber Prime wrote:I don't know how much of the cartoon you've watched but I thought I'd allso point out Aquaman's original appearance on the Superman cartoon had him in his original costume where as his Justice League appearance had him with the beard and hook.

Actully your only half right.When Aquaman made his first apperance on Justice League he had both his hands but he lost one trying to get to his wife and child.

Saber Prime wrote: There's allso the difference of Kyal Ryner being the Green Lanturn in Superman's solo series while John made his first appearance in the Justice Leage cartoon.

Kyle made a few apperances in the JL serries and even had a few lines and was refered to by name.But his costume was different.

Saber Prime wrote:Other than thoughs two characters I think everyone else on Justice League is the same as they were (if they apperared at all) in the Batman Superman Adventures.

The Flash of JL was a bit different then his apperance on the Superman solo serries.But it was a very miner detail.

And Etrigan the Deamon in the JL serries was quite a bit smaller then he was in the Batman serries and nolonger spoke in rymes.

Thats all I can think of now.

And since we're on the topic of the Joker look at this vid I found

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/0 ... 89356.html

Theres also a good number of fan made Batman vids on youtube.You might like some of them.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:[1] Having a father and son like relation ship with Alfread was out of character.

[2] Having a brother like relationship with Dick was out of character

[3] Cracking jokes while in costume was way out of character

[4] Bruce tells a doctor who he is.

And now for the biggest out of character thing that was done in all the Batman films........Drum roll please!!!!!!!!!!!

Batman Kills in the movies!!!!!!!

1. Alfred raised Bruce from the time his parrents died, that's not out of character he really does have a father son relationship with Alfred.

2. I don't know where you see that as a "Brother" type relationship. Dick is more like an adopted son.

3. That was George Clooney who I allready said was allways out of character.

4. When did that happen? He was allways shown reciveing medical treatment in the Batcave by Alfred. Or were you refering to the psycoligist (Spelling?) in Batman Forever?

5. Batman never killed anyone in any of the movies. Not intentinally anyway. And didn't Batman kill the Joker in one of the comics? I seen a fan video on YouTube where he did and it was suposidly based on a comic book scene.

Saber Prime wrote:Superman is bigger controll freak than Batman is. He doesn't even really have a partner. Supergirl was forced to stay at his parrent's farm, Superboy has never appeared in the series, and Steel had a one time apperance.

Superboy could not appear for leagal reasons and Steel had more then one apperance but I think he was only the main focuse of one episode.Steel showed up a few time in the JLU serries.

Sorry, I ment he only had one appearance in Superman's solo series. I have no idea how many times he's appeared on JLU.

Steel Allso had a live action movie a few years back. They never mentioned Superman or Matropilos in the movie though. As far as I can remember the only conection to Superman that was shown in the movie Steel was that the actor playing that part had a tatoo of the Superman logo on his arm and there was a close up of that tatoo in the movie so it's not hard to spot it.

Saber Prime wrote:I don't know how much of the cartoon you've watched but I thought I'd allso point out Aquaman's original appearance on the Superman cartoon had him in his original costume where as his Justice League appearance had him with the beard and hook.

Actully your only half right.When Aquaman made his first apperance on Justice League he had both his hands but he lost one trying to get to his wife and child.

I think the point of that episode was to show how he lost his hand in the first place but mentioning the hook was just the easiest way to describe that costume.

I prefer his original or his current costumes though. And by current I ment his comic boom costume with the aqatic "Lady of the lake" hand and the more detailed design on his pants.

And since we're on the topic of the Joker look at this vid I found

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2008/03/0 ... 89356.html

Wow, never seen the Young Jack Nickolson before. A coulpe of thoughs movie scenes were REALLY old one of them didn't even look like him.

Saber Prime wrote:1. Alfred raised Bruce from the time his parrents died, that's not out of character he really does have a father son relationship with Alfred.

Again this is not an insult but you dont know enough about the characters to say it was not out of character.

All of Batman's origins [there were quite a few] before the first movie in 88 or 89 did not have Alfred raising Bruce after his parents died.

The best know origin before the 88/89 movie was quite different.As a matter of fact Alfred was not the family buttler but it was Alfreds father that was the Wayne family Butler.

Alfred was a solder first and then did some work for the UK's version of the FBI.When Alfreds father died he promised his father that he would go into the family buisness and took up his fathers job working for the Wayne family.

By that time Bruce was already Batman and Dick was already Robin.

I believe some of that origin was used in the Animated serries.Alfred in the animated serries once worked for UK intelegence.

The only origin that differed on Alfred was Batman year 1 and even there they dont say that Alfred raised Bruce but they do hint twards it.

And even after it was adopted into his comic book origins their relationship was still never warm and touching like it was in the movies.

As a matter of fact Bruce threatened to fire Alfred from time to time and Alfred would offten question Bruce's sanity.

Saber Prime wrote:2. I don't know where you see that as a "Brother" type relationship. Dick is more like an adopted son.

One of George's lines when he was trying to get Dick back on his side was to say something like "So I'm asking you.....friend,partner, Brother... will you help me?"

Saber Prime wrote:3. That was George Clooney who I allready said was allways out of character.

WOW.....You might want to pop in somwe of the films to give yourself a refresher.All of the Batmen cracked jokes.

In Batman returns Mike Ketten's Batman cracked a joke that was something to the effect of "I thought I was someone else" while talking to Selina Kyle and later he's in the Batcave useing a CD of the Penguin talking like he was scraching on the turn tables of the 80 hip hop scene.

Val Kimer in "Forver" told DR.Chase Meriden that if she liked guys in rubber she should date firemen "less to take off".

I dont remember right now jokes from the 88/89 movie but the whole "I made you but you made me first" bit seemed to be the wines of a 8 year old kid which is also out of character.

And you already know about the ones in Batman & Robin.

Saber Prime wrote:4. When did that happen? He was allways shown reciveing medical treatment in the Batcave by Alfred. Or were you refering to the psycoligist (Spelling?) in Batman Forever?

Yes I was.

Saber Prime wrote:5. Batman never killed anyone in any of the movies. Not intentinally anyway.

Again watch the films again.The only movie he didnt kill in was Batman & Robin.

In the 88/89 film he killed a factory full of Jokers goons.He blew the place up and we didnt see one person running from the place.And we only saw on helicopter leave the place and all those guys could not have fit in there.

In "Returns" he intentinally punched that guy in the stumck to put the bomb in his pants he then kicked him into a ditch so he could blow up with out killing anyone else.

In "Forver" I seem to remember him twisting one of the bad guys around as he fired his gun and the bullets his some of the other bad guys.Batman could have disarmed him before twisting him around like that.

And even if I'm wrong about that bit Batman did infact caused the death of Two face by throwing a had full of coins into the air while they were standing on the edge of a cliff knowing full well that Harvey would dive to catch them all.Again that killing and completly out of character.

In "Begins" Bruce refuses to kill the theift that the League of Shadows has as a prisoner and while trying to help him excape he intentinally starts a fire that kills a good number of the League,the guy he thought was Ras al Gual and who knows how many other possible prisoners that they may have still had in that complex before it all burned down.

Saber Prime wrote:And didn't Batman kill the Joker in one of the comics? I seen a fan video on YouTube where he did and it was suposidly based on a comic book scene.

No Batman has never killed the Joker in any of the comics but he did come pretty close a few times.Most notible times when Joker crippeled Barbra, when Joker killed the 2nd Robin Jason Todd and in a story set in the future a 60 year old Batman snaped the Jokers back and almost finished the job but stoped himself just before finishing him off.

Saber Prime wrote:
Steel Allso had a live action movie a few years back. They never mentioned Superman or Matropilos in the movie though. As far as I can remember the only conection to Superman that was shown in the movie Steel was that the actor playing that part had a tatoo of the Superman logo on his arm and there was a close up of that tatoo in the movie so it's not hard to spot it.

Yes the movie sucked.By the way the actor playing Steel was Basketball star Shaquille O'Neal.

Saber Prime wrote:
I prefer his original or his current costumes though. And by current I ment his comic boom costume with the aqatic "Lady of the lake" hand and the more detailed design on his pants.

He's had plenty of looks over the years and to tell the truth I prefer the bare chested look.I know it sounds gay but what can you do

Saber Prime wrote: Wow, never seen the Young Jack Nickolson before. A coulpe of thoughs movie scenes were REALLY old one of them didn't even look like him.

I remember him from his younger days but it was cool to see him like that again.

And thanks for making me feel old

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:And even if I'm wrong about that bit Batman did infact caused the death of Two face by throwing a had full of coins into the air while they were standing on the edge of a cliff knowing full well that Harvey would dive to catch them all.Again that killing and completly out of character.

Two-Face was the one out of character in that scene not Batman. He's used that same coin trick in the cartoons several times just never on the edge of a cliff.

Two-Face by that point knew who Batman was and he was Bruce Wayne's friend. In the cartoon he was allways Harvey Dent when Bruce was with him. Movie Two-Face seemed to have completly changed into Two-Face like Harvey didn't exsist inside him and so even knowing who Batman was he still tried to kill him.

Saber Prime wrote: Wow, never seen the Young Jack Nickolson before. A coulpe of thoughs movie scenes were REALLY old one of them didn't even look like him.

I remember him from his younger days but it was cool to see him like that again.

And thanks for making me feel old

You're welcome.

Saber Prime wrote:Two-Face was the one out of character in that scene not Batman. He's used that same coin trick in the cartoons several times just never on the edge of a cliff.

Two-Face by that point knew who Batman was and he was Bruce Wayne's friend. In the cartoon he was allways Harvey Dent when Bruce was with him. Movie Two-Face seemed to have completly changed into Two-Face like Harvey didn't exsist inside him and so even knowing who Batman was he still tried to kill him.

Well Two-Face wasnt really out of character there.Like I've told you there are a lot of differences between the comic,toon and movie versions of these characters.

"Forever" Two-Face was more in tune with his one of his comic book interpertations.

In the comics Harvey Dent was never really a old friend to Bruce Wayne.As a matter of fact he was Batman's friend first.He only became a friend to Bruce when Bruce suported him for the head DA's job.

Even the split personalty of Harvey that was shown in the cartoon was never really explored in the comics the same way.

The only signs of Harvey you ever really saw was when his coin would end up on the clean side and it normaly only ment that he just wouldnt kill you himself but leave you to die in some other way.

Saber Prime wrote:You're welcome.

Funny

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Two-Face was the one out of character in that scene not Batman. He's used that same coin trick in the cartoons several times just never on the edge of a cliff.

Two-Face by that point knew who Batman was and he was Bruce Wayne's friend. In the cartoon he was allways Harvey Dent when Bruce was with him. Movie Two-Face seemed to have completly changed into Two-Face like Harvey didn't exsist inside him and so even knowing who Batman was he still tried to kill him.

Well Two-Face wasnt really out of character there.Like I've told you there are a lot of differences between the comic,toon and movie versions of these characters.

"Forever" Two-Face was more in tune with his one of his comic book interpertations.

In the comics Harvey Dent was never really a old friend to Bruce Wayne.As a matter of fact he was Batman's friend first.He only became a friend to Bruce when Bruce suported him for the head DA's job.

Even the split personalty of Harvey that was shown in the cartoon was never really explored in the comics the same way.

The only signs of Harvey you ever really saw was when his coin would end up on the clean side and it normaly only ment that he just wouldnt kill you himself but leave you to die in some other way.

Saber Prime wrote:You're welcome.

Funny

Movie Two-Face was refered to as Bruce Wayne's friend, never Batman's.

Cartoon Two-Face was allways a skitsofrenic. Even before the accident but he had more controll over it before then. The reason for Two-Face wanting to kill Batman is that he accidently caused the exsplosion that scared his face. That added to the fact Harvey didn't really like Batman to begine with.

At one point in the series Harvey was given his old face back by a plastic surgen only to go crazy and get his scared face back before he was fully healed from the surgery. Other times he came close to being normal again but switched personalitys before they even pulled out the scalpil.

All the times that he was supose to be normal again Bruce was allways right there with him and he was normal till some time after Bruce had to leave the room.

Later Harvey devoloped a third personality, The Judge. He was a vigilanty like Batman only he intentically tried to kill criminals. The Judge was completly unaware of his other 2 personalitys and they were unaware of the Judge and the result ended with Two-Face trying to kill himself.

I've actully never seen The Judge in any other Batman material but I really like the character.

Saber Prime wrote:Movie Two-Face was refered to as Bruce Wayne's friend, never Batman's.

Thats not what I ment when I said that Movie Two-face was more intune with his comic counterpart.

What I ment was that the movie played more on the Two-face personalty then Harvey's much like they do in most comics.

Saber Prime wrote:Cartoon Two-Face was allways a skitsofrenic. Even before the accident but he had more controll over it before then.

Thats an other thing that was not the case originaly in the comics.But they have adopted it into the comics over the past 10 years.

Saber Prime wrote:The reason for Two-Face wanting to kill Batman is that he accidently caused the exsplosion that scared his face. That added to the fact Harvey didn't really like Batman to begine with.

The comic book origin for Harvey was more like the movie version.....a criminal trew asid on his face in court and Batman wasnt fast enough to stop it.

Saber Prime wrote:At one point in the series Harvey was given his old face back by a plastic surgen only to go crazy and get his scared face back before he was fully healed from the surgery. Other times he came close to being normal again but switched personalitys before they even pulled out the scalpil.

That happened in the comics too........many times as a matter of fact.

Saber Prime wrote:All the times that he was supose to be normal again Bruce was allways right there with him and he was normal till some time after Bruce had to leave the room.

This differed in comics since Harvey and Bruce werent great friends.

Saber Prime wrote:Later Harvey devoloped a third personality, The Judge. He was a vigilanty like Batman only he intentically tried to kill criminals. The Judge was completly unaware of his other 2 personalitys and they were unaware of the Judge and the result ended with Two-Face trying to kill himself.

I've actully never seen The Judge in any other Batman material but I really like the character.

The Judge was never a comic character before and Harvey's personalty has not fragmented to that degree.

But Harvey did become a vigilante for a while after he was trained by Batman to take over as Gotham's protector while Batman,Robin and Nightwing went on vacation.........dont ask, its a long and stupid story.

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:

Saber Prime wrote:Later Harvey devoloped a third personality, The Judge. He was a vigilanty like Batman only he intentically tried to kill criminals. The Judge was completly unaware of his other 2 personalitys and they were unaware of the Judge and the result ended with Two-Face trying to kill himself.

I've actully never seen The Judge in any other Batman material but I really like the character.

The Judge was never a comic character before and Harvey's personalty has not fragmented to that degree.

But Harvey did become a vigilante for a while after he was trained by Batman to take over as Gotham's protector while Batman,Robin and Nightwing went on vacation.........dont ask, its a long and stupid story.

PM it to me I'd like to hear the long and stupid story.

Saber Prime wrote:
PM it to me I'd like to hear the long and stupid story.

Sent.