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Capt.Failure wrote:Let me simplify this statement: "The only Cybertron that matters is the multitude of various redesigns from the series that I like as part of my No True Scottsman view of the series, since the parts of it I don't like aren't TRUE Transformers shows."

Pardon me while I laugh at you. True Fans are the real joke here, not the movies.

wtf are you even talking about? How can you take a simple statement and attempt to simplify it by making it more complicated? The other cybertrons haven't been a redesign, they have generally been planets that are just one big city, with large metal flatter parts, buildings, lots of highways and pathways, lights, and depths. The movie is the only one that has really dramatically changed its looks by basically uniforming all of those details into looking exactly the same, but just changing size and level. I didn't say anything about "true" transformers shows (or about being a "true" fan, these words are pointless), but just that the movies were pretty much ass overall, so its no surprise I don't like a piece of movie concept art. I had to type all that out just to explain this? Hurt. Evolve? Move on? I actually did. I watched Animated. It looked like a crap art style and a childish direction, but I gave it a chance and it was good. The movies weren't. Stop trying to make all of this into some bigger issue. Its just stuff you like or don't like. I don't like this Cybertron coz its boring and a DOWNGRADE from the good stuff already established.

Do I need to start/end every sentence with IMO just so you don't have a hissy fit?

Hotrodimust wrote:so please don't say true fans are the real joke.

The concept of a "true fan" is a real joke. Calling oneself a "true fan" implies that you're better than other fans, or that there are people who are "false fans." It has as lot more impact here, we dealt with the term a lot around '07. "True fan" was meant as "I'm right, and if you disagree, you obviously aren't a true fan."

MINDVVIPE wrote:The other cybertrons haven't been a redesign, they have generally been planets that are just one big city, with large metal flatter parts, buildings, lots of highways and pathways, lights, and depths.

Generally, as in, not always. As in, I posted a ton of pics earlier where Cybertron doesn't always look like what you just said.

And those "buildings, highways and pathways" are just random details that only sort of look like that, like a Landscape Rorschach Test. Or else they are absolutely massive to be visible from orbit.

MINDVVIPE wrote:I don't like this Cybertron coz its boring and a DOWNGRADE from the good stuff already established.

Nothing is established. Have you been paying attention at all? Cybertron goes through radical redesigns with literally every series.

Shadowman wrote:

Hotrodimust wrote:so please don't say true fans are the real joke.

The concept of a "true fan" is a real joke. Calling oneself a "true fan" implies that you're better than other fans, or that there are people who are "false fans." It has as lot more impact here, we dealt with the term a lot around '07. "True fan" was meant as "I'm right, and if you disagree, you obviously aren't a true fan."

Basically, there is no such thing as a "true fan".

I've looked at all of those pictures, its estabalished that its a world thats just one big city. Since our first look with G1 its been a city where people drive around on, fly around, go inside buildings, etc etc. The ones that really might suggest anything else is just pictures of them from far away. Any close ups are generally city structures. Sure, theres some crazy metal balls and boob structures that are part of the landscape, but that is usually just a boob you can enter since its also building.

Theres just so many holes in this Cybertron, which even conflicts with the short bit we saw in the first movie where Megatron looks over the horizon and theres towers and definitely no huge holes all over the place. But whatever, its obviously no set in stone design, but THIS design is definitely different to the majority of the older ones.

MINDVVIPE wrote:but THIS design is definitely different to the majority of the older ones.

Good! They did something new. Tons of people are saying the design is unoriginal or uncreative, but then rehashing design elements is, itself, unoriginal and uncreative.

But still, it's your opinion, and honestly I'm having a tough time arguing when that thought passes in my head.

Shadowman wrote:

Hotrodimust wrote:so please don't say true fans are the real joke.

The concept of a "true fan" is a real joke. Calling oneself a "true fan" implies that you're better than other fans, or that there are people who are "false fans." It has as lot more impact here, we dealt with the term a lot around '07. "True fan" was meant as "I'm right, and if you disagree, you obviously aren't a true fan."

No I consider a true fan to enjoy and give a chance to anything that has the transformer label on it. Like I tried to watch rescue bots it's to kiddy but the character look ok and I got my daughter all the toys I don't talk crap about it. And I just don't collect TF toys I collect everything TF it doesn't mean I'm a better fan than you I'm just kinda true to the brand you will not see me wear a gobots shirt lol. to tell you the truth I don't give a sh#t what you like an the only reason I even come on these forums is to talk about TFs if I had a couple friends that were actually in my life that liked TF past watching the movies I wouldn't even be on here.And a true fan knows the TFs history and watched one of the shows when he or she was a kid and didn't jump on board when the movies came out unless you were a kid when the started. Kinda like everyone got into tuning cars when the fast and furious came out and then there were the kids already on the scene enjoying it. the the **** movie ruined it for us with every a$$hole putting a muffler on his car trying to race his civic

Thats fair to say, showing the same cybertron over and over isn't terribly creative in and of itself. I just feel theres more neat stuff thats possible given how crazy Cybertron already is. Look at what WFC did with its transforming highways. Looks like theres going to be an insane new amount of cool stuff in FoC in regards to the landscapes of Cybertron. Especially looking forward to battling around the remains of dead Giant Transformers.

Shadowman wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:Funny thing is, Cybertron looked different in the first film.

We never really saw Cybertron in the first movie, just that bit of promotional material.

we actually get a really detailed look in the first movie during Prime's little holographic "light show" to the kids. and as someone else stated, it looks nothing like we see in the 3rd movie. but my personal explanation was that what we saw in the first movie was just lower down on the actual planet and the honeycomb thing was just much higher, maybe some barrier or pseudo physical atmosphere type thing....lame but it works. lol

Hotrodimust wrote:No I consider a true fan to enjoy and give a chance to anything that has the transformer label on it.

No, that's just a "fan", not a "true fan". A "true fan" is something so contrversial that it's best that it doesn't exist. No one should ever be a "true fan".

Hotrodimust wrote:And a true fan knows the TFs history and watched one of the shows when he or she was a kid and didn't jump on board when the movies came out unless you were a kid when the started.

Wait, what? You're saying that fans are only those who watched the shows as kids and/or know the TF history?

Dude, there are several fans who did not watch Transformers cartoon as children and instead become fans as teens or adults.

And there are even those fans who do NOT know the TF history as they are only "casual fans" rather than "die-hard fans", yet they are still "fans" nonetheless.

Bouncy X wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:Funny thing is, Cybertron looked different in the first film.

We never really saw Cybertron in the first movie, just that bit of promotional material.

we actually get a really detailed look in the first movie during Prime's little holographic "light show" to the kids.

He means we never a full look at the planet's globe from outer space in the movie. Specifically, the first movie never showed us this:

Hotrodimust wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:I guess I forgot we were talking about the movie Cybertron. Who even cares, the movies are a joke. The only Cybertron that matters to me is the one seen in WFC, the comics, G1, pretty much anything but the movies. But ya, since they are so overly buglike in the movies, the hive can work, even though I still think it reaks of uncreativity.

Let me simplify this statement: "The only Cybertron that matters is the multitude of various redesigns from the series that I like as part of my No True Scottsman view of the series, since the parts of it I don't like aren't TRUE Transformers shows."

Pardon me while I laugh at you. True Fans are the real joke here, not the movies.

That's ugly I'm a true fan I I enjoyed the movies for just the movie aspect as far as looks I can care less about the movie characters and design. I like and love the g1 comics and WFC looks oh and prime it's not bit at all. But I also don't bash everything that is not g1 comic and WFC like some of the hard core g1 fans I love everything TFs some just less than others so please don't say true fans are the real joke. It's really the people that just can't let go and move on lol

My point is the people stating that the movie design of Cybertron isn't "the real one," the "proper one," or the "true one." There is no set design of Cybertron and there never has been. You can dislike this one all you want for it's assorted design quirks, that's just normal to have opinions. To try and say it doesn't count as legitimate because it's from the movies is the height of fallacious logic.

Now granted I cannot take you seriously since you immediately call yourself a True Fan. There are not True Fans, only fans.

Sabrblade wrote:

Hotrodimust wrote:No I consider a true fan to enjoy and give a chance to anything that has the transformer label on it.

No, that's just a "fan", not a "true fan". A "true fan" is something so contrversial that it's best that it doesn't exist. No one should ever be a "true fan".

Hotrodimust wrote:And a true fan knows the TFs history and watched one of the shows when he or she was a kid and didn't jump on board when the movies came out unless you were a kid when the started.

Wait, what? You're saying that fans are only those who watched the shows as kids and/or know the TF history?

Dude, there are several fans who did not watch Transformers cartoon as children and instead become fans as teens or adults.

And there are even those fans who do NOT know the TF history as they are only "casual fans" rather than "die-hard fans", yet they are still "fans" nonetheless.

So but you are using the term die hard fan saying u are more of a fan than a casual fan sounds like just another way to say true fan bro u argue until u can feel like ur right at everything that is said have a nice night get over it true fan

Sabrblade wrote:

Hotrodimust wrote:No I consider a true fan to enjoy and give a chance to anything that has the transformer label on it.

No, that's just a "fan", not a "true fan". A "true fan" is something so contrversial that it's best that it doesn't exist. No one should ever be a "true fan".

Hotrodimust wrote:And a true fan knows the TFs history and watched one of the shows when he or she was a kid and didn't jump on board when the movies came out unless you were a kid when the started.

Wait, what? You're saying that fans are only those who watched the shows as kids and/or know the TF history?

Dude, there are several fans who did not watch Transformers cartoon as children and instead become fans as teens or adults.

And there are even those fans who do NOT know the TF history as they are only "casual fans" rather than "die-hard fans", yet they are still "fans" nonetheless.

Sabor, all you had to post was this: http://tvtropes.org/pmwiki/pmwiki.php/M ... ueScotsman

No True Scotsman is an intentional logical fallacy which involves the act of setting up standards for a particular scenario, then redefining those same standards in order to exclude a particular outcome.

The Trope Namer and prime example of this sort of behavior is a hypothetical scenario (first told by British philosopher Antony Flew in his 1975 book Thinking About Thinking) in which a Scotsman reads about a horrible crime in the newspaper that takes place in the English town of Brighton and smugly thinks to himself, "No Scotsman would ever do such a thing." Something much worse happens in nearby Aberdeen and is reported on the next day. Rather than admit that he's wrong, he instead thinks, "No true Scotsman would ever do such a thing." In this case, he is going from "someone who lives in Scotland" to "someone that meets my standard of Scottish behavior."

Hotrodimust wrote:

Sabrblade wrote:

Hotrodimust wrote:No I consider a true fan to enjoy and give a chance to anything that has the transformer label on it.

No, that's just a "fan", not a "true fan". A "true fan" is something so contrversial that it's best that it doesn't exist. No one should ever be a "true fan".

Hotrodimust wrote:And a true fan knows the TFs history and watched one of the shows when he or she was a kid and didn't jump on board when the movies came out unless you were a kid when the started.

Wait, what? You're saying that fans are only those who watched the shows as kids and/or know the TF history?

Dude, there are several fans who did not watch Transformers cartoon as children and instead become fans as teens or adults.

And there are even those fans who do NOT know the TF history as they are only "casual fans" rather than "die-hard fans", yet they are still "fans" nonetheless.

So but you are using the term die hard fan saying u are more of a fan than a casual fan sounds like just another way to say true fan bro u argue until u can feel like ur right at everything that is said have a nice night get over it true fan

Ok I'll change what I call it I'm a die-hard fan call me brue

Capt.Failure wrote: To try and say it doesn't count as legitimate because it's from the movies is the height of fallacious logic.

No one said that. What I was saying is that the movies suck, and so its no surprise to me that their idea of Cybertron sucks, as it seems like a downgrade, just like a bunch of other aspects of the movie.

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote: To try and say it doesn't count as legitimate because it's from the movies is the height of fallacious logic.

No one said that. What I was saying is that the movies suck, and so its no surprise to me that their idea of Cybertron sucks, as it seems like a downgrade, just like a bunch of other aspects of the movie.

Your not gonna get your point across because obviously these to are the sharpest tools in the shed

MINDVVIPE wrote:

Capt.Failure wrote: To try and say it doesn't count as legitimate because it's from the movies is the height of fallacious logic.

No one said that. What I was saying is that the movies suck, and so its no surprise to me that their idea of Cybertron sucks, as it seems like a downgrade, just like a bunch of other aspects of the movie in my opinion.

Fixed that for you. You'll find people more agreeable when you don't state opinions as facts.

Brav-o
Its funny coz I even commented about what you just did a few posts back.

Hey, in my opinion, I don't consider that my opinion, its a fact.
This should be obvious from the get-go. I'm not looking for agreeability. I'm just here to call it like I sees it.

MINDVVIPE wrote:Brav-o
Its funny coz I even commented about what you just did a few posts back.

Hey, in my opinion, I don't consider that my opinion, its a fact.

I'm sure the little world you live in were you're important is very nice. Now leave the thread so adults can talk.

Capt.Failure wrote:

MINDVVIPE wrote:Brav-o
Its funny coz I even commented about what you just did a few posts back.

Hey, in my opinion, I don't consider that my opinion, its a fact.

I'm sure the little world you live in were you're important is very nice. Now leave the thread so adults can talk. [/
And you must be the king of the castle in yours have a nice night adults I'm sure we will repeat this tomorrow as soon as some says anything about what they think in their opinion

Hotrodimust wrote:So but you are using the term die hard fan saying u are more of a fan than a casual fan sounds like just another way to say true fan bro u argue until u can feel like ur right at everything that is said have a nice night get over it true fan

That's different. A "die-hard fan" is a fan who feels the need to really invest him/herself in their his/her interest, wanting to know more and more about it so he/she can experience as much as possible. Whereas a "casual fan" is a fan who does not feel this need and that it perfectly acceptable.

A "true fan", like shadowman said, invokes a connotation of superiority in which one fan who considers him/herself a "true fan" condemns anyone whom he/she deems unworthy of being a fan.

"Die-hard fans" and "casual fans" are just as much fans as each other. The only difference between each is how invested in the interest each is. A casual fan can be someone who only watches the current cartoon (rather than all of them), or only collect the few toys they like (rather than as many as possible), or whatever else. Doesn't make them any less fans. While a die-hard fan may try to see and own everything. But both are still fans. Just different kinds of fans.

Sabrblade wrote:

Hotrodimust wrote:So but you are using the term die hard fan saying u are more of a fan than a casual fan sounds like just another way to say true fan bro u argue until u can feel like ur right at everything that is said have a nice night get over it true fan

That's different. A "die-hard fan" is a fan who feels the need to really invest him/herself in their his/her interest, wanting to know more and more about it so he/she can experience as much as possible. Whereas a "casual fan" is a fan who does not feel this need and that it perfectly acceptable.

A "true fan", like shadowman said, invokes a connotation of superiority in which one fan who considers him/herself a "true fan" condemns anyone whom he/she deems unworthy of being a fan.

"Die-hard fans" and "casual fans" are just as much fans as each other. The only difference between each is how invested in the interest each is. A casual fan can be someone who only watches the current cartoon (rather than all of them), or only collect the few toys they like (rather than as many as possible), or whatever else. Doesn't make them any less fans. While a die-hard fan may try to see and own everything. But both are still fans. Just different kinds of fans.

How does that make sense I don't think I'm better than anyone lol WOW no people are telling me what I think of my self doesn't get better than this. So I'm just gonna say I'm a die hard fan so no one thinks that I think that I'm better than everyone else. GOD I wish I was a gobot fan they don't have these problems. BEING TOLD WHAT YOU THINK (TRANSFOMER FAN PROBLEMS) lets see who gets that

Hotrodimust wrote:How does that make sense I don't think I'm better than anyone lol WOW no people are telling me what I think of my self doesn't get better than this. So I'm just gonna say I'm a die hard fan so no one thinks that I think that I'm better than everyone else. GOD I wish I was a gobot fan they don't have these problems. BEING TOLD WHAT YOU THINK (TRANSFOMER FAN PROBLEMS) lets see who gets that

I'm not calling YOU a "true fan", I'm just describing what one is. You strike me as a "fan", or even a "die-hard fan", which is perfectly fine.

Sabrblade wrote:

Hotrodimust wrote:How does that make sense I don't think I'm better than anyone lol WOW no people are telling me what I think of my self doesn't get better than this. So I'm just gonna say I'm a die hard fan so no one thinks that I think that I'm better than everyone else. GOD I wish I was a gobot fan they don't have these problems. BEING TOLD WHAT YOU THINK (TRANSFOMER FAN PROBLEMS) lets see who gets that

I'm not calling YOU a "true fan", I'm just describing what one is. You strike me as a "fan", or even a "die-hard fan", which is perfectly fine.

Ok I feel better now lol not to start another argument about it but I was just looking at the pictures of all the cybertrons and the movie one looks like when you peel the leather off a baseball all the layer yarn or what ever it is. And I'm just saying that's what I kinda see not that it is I think we need to demand a virtual tour of cybertron from hasbro so we can put this to rest because I feel sorry for the sucker who is still on page 2 of the topic and has to read all this to catch up lol

MINDVVIPE wrote:Hey, in my opinion, I don't consider that my opinion, its a fact.

Absolutely not. I can't say you're wrong for not liking Cybertron's design in DOTM. But now you're actually trying to pass your opinions off as fact, that's wrong. Your opinion is, ultimately, meaningless here; you don't get to decide what is fact or not.