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Regarding this series...

My main question is: Does it actually fit with the evolution of Megatron and the Decepticon cause as the story has evolved over the past few years?

I re-read it recently and I would like to hear some other thoughts on this, especially the criminal enterprise version of the Decepticons that seems to go against the idealistic version that has been framed in the past few years.

I think IDW has done a few things to try and bring it all together, but I'd like to know if that has worked for you in terms of story telling. I'd also like to know if the fact that this was originally meant to be a part of the Dreamwave comic series means it can kind of be viewed as apocrypha.

I read Megatron Origins after MtMtE, ex-RiD, and Chaos Theory. I was massively disappointed. The general story kinda needs to be there since the later comics build off of it (well, retconned the hell out of it), but MO's just so dry and dull.

Similar to the above comment, I think the overall story still fits, but you have to willfully ignore the little details for it to work. I've always been a big fan of this mini-series, as it was probably the first time Megatron evoked any sort of empathy at all with me.

I'd really like to see something cohesive combining bits of this, Autocracy, Chaos Theory, Shadowplay, and the Exiles novel (different continuity but similar, thematically, in the OP/Megatron relationship towards the start and even goes into some excellent additional detail that can kind of fit in with the IDW stuff.)

I think it can work, but there is a lot of detail left out of the final story that really makes it convincing (not surprising, since it was cut from 6 to 4 issues).

James Roberts has done a wonderful job filling in a lot of those gaps by giving us Megatron's story pre-Origin. We see that he started as a miner with a head full of ideas and a desire to see social change through peaceful resistance. Then begins a gradual eroding of Megatron's optimism. He's thrown in jail and brutally beaten, which turns him away from his belief in peaceful resistance. He continue to write, but the failed Shadowplay and the disappearance of Terminus further hardens him. Those events add much more richness to Origins, where we finally see Megatron pushed to the brink and forced to rely on violence for the first time.

I think the major failing of Origin is that it doesn't establish why Megatron would opt to participate in death matches given his reluctance to use violence. Some interstitial material set between Megatron's escape from the mines and his foray into gladiator matches would be nice. After that, it's a steady slide as Megatron learns the true power of violence and intimidation.

I think Origin has its flaws, mostly in the fact that the story was cut short before publication, but it still holds up, and is made even better by the additional material regarding Megatron's beginnings that came later.

I may be wrong about this, but I took the partial Shadowplay operation on Megatron to be one reason why he goes violent.

Not because he was angry over it, but rather because it literally re-wired his brain but was not completed.

Is that off base? The historical details of these books are something that I've not really actively tried to pull together all that hard.

Going off memory so may be a little off, but it was basically: Mnemosurgery starts, stuff starts going down, Megatron gets loose and that guard won't let him go find Terminus, he kills guard which is his first violent act, Terminus is gone because the Necrobot had fetched him to go to the future, Brainstorm shows up.

I just read this story and there are a few things I dont get:

1. Where is shockwave? Reading recent Transformers comics, it says that he was the one who provided Megatron his advanced weaponry but it seems to be Soundwave in the actual story. Who supplied Megatron with his Fusion Cannon?

2. Regardless me finding the fact that Cybertron also has a stock market kind of silly, I didnt understand what Senator Ratbat's role was. How was he profitting from Megatron's Chaos?

william-james88 wrote:I just read this story and there are a few things I dont get:

1. Where is shockwave? Reading recent Transformers comics, it says that he was the one who provided Megatron his advanced weaponry but it seems to be Soundwave in the actual story. Who supplied Megatron with his Fusion Cannon?

2. Regardless me finding the fact that Cybertron also has a stock market kind of silly, I didnt understand what Senator Ratbat's role was. How was he profitting from Megatron's Chaos?

1 - This cannot be answered without spoiling a major detail from another book. I can do so if you'd like, of course.

2 - I just took him to be a failed opportunist. May be missing a key detail but I remember he seemed motivated enough during my last read of it.

ScottyP wrote:

william-james88 wrote:I just read this story and there are a few things I dont get:

1. Where is shockwave? Reading recent Transformers comics, it says that he was the one who provided Megatron his advanced weaponry but it seems to be Soundwave in the actual story. Who supplied Megatron with his Fusion Cannon?

2. Regardless me finding the fact that Cybertron also has a stock market kind of silly, I didnt understand what Senator Ratbat's role was. How was he profitting from Megatron's Chaos?

1 - This cannot be answered without spoiling a major detail from another book. I can do so if you'd like, of course.

2 - I just took him to be a failed opportunist. May be missing a key detail but I remember he seemed motivated enough during my last read of it.

He was definitely motiated, but I didnt get the logistics. So he supplies Megatron with extra weapons through Soundwave, Megatron does more damage with them and ... what happens next? We can all see how this totally did not work out for Ratbat but I wonder how he thought it would work out. How would he profit from more chaos? Like was he investing in canned energon so that those afraid would hide in bunkers and need to fill up on that?

And yes, spoil away please, thanks for all your replies

Also, we never know what was up with Soundwave before ravage finds him in the rain right? Do we just assume he escaped the institute?

william-james88 wrote:And yes, spoil away please, thanks for all your replies

Shockwave is in the Senate. Has a face, bright colors, and even both hands! He's one of the Senators that's against Proteus' faction of Functionists, and later assists Orion Pax in uncovering some of the nasty plans of the more corrupt part of the Senate. Said baddies find this out and Shockwave turns himself in to prevent his allies from being harmed. Then they perform mnemosurgery and empurata on him, and he becomes the emotionless, one-eyed, laser-for-an-arm guy that everyone's familiar with.

ScottyP wrote:

william-james88 wrote:And yes, spoil away please, thanks for all your replies

Shockwave is in the Senate. Has a face, bright colors, and even both hands! He's one of the Senators that's against Proteus' faction of Functionists, and later assists Orion Pax in uncovering some of the nasty plans of the more corrupt part of the Senate. Said baddies find this out and Shockwave turns himself in to prevent his allies from being harmed. Then they perform mnemosurgery and empurata on him, and he becomes the emotionless, one-eyed, laser-for-an-arm guy that everyone's familiar with.

I knew about Shockwave, I am all caught up on mtmte and just backtracking on comics before death of optimus prime. I really liked issue 22 of RID where we see flasbacks of Shockwave and Soundwave helping Megatron. That's what prompted me to read Megatron Origins.
But thetes a problem, and hence my question. That issue of RID clearly shows shockwave interacting with Soundwave during the events of Megatron origins. He was already turned into Soundwave by that point. So he can't also be the unturned senator simultaneously. That's why I was looking for shockwave in Megatron origins, rid said he was already turned. There is an error then.
That error is propagated with the fact that rid 22 says shockwaves provided Megatron with his upgrades while Megatron origins says it was Soundwave.

And lastly I am still unclear then on who it is in Megatron origins who supplies Megatron his fusion cannon.

There are many portions of Megatron: Origins that must be willfully ignored, or you create a continuity headache for yourself that no ibuprofen could ever fix. The high level details and thematic elements have been treated as concrete, indisputable canon in this universe. The rest has been left aside as just a matter of "plans and plots changed". For instance, why is Elita One in the background of a panel? Shouldn't she be on Carcer already? The answer is yes.

Thing with Megatron Origins is that it was still in that pre-DOOP era where the morality scaling was a bit more black and white. Especially compounding this is the fact that, of course, it was originally drafted for Dreamwave which makes it even more black and white. Things only really started to change and have hints of a more interesting and gray Decepticon ethos with Thundercracker's defection in AHM/2009 ongoing and, ironically enough, Drift's spotlight - where both Drift and Thundercracker's defections are stated by both to come from the Decepticons having turned into monsters as a far cry from what they used to be; implying some sort of worthy and nobler cause - and Chaos Theory's massive expansion on Megatron's character before the post-DOOP era really put it into full swing. Anything before then doesn't really present the Decepticons as anything other than an evil entity to defeat; and Megatron Origins is simply a reflection of that era as well as the last remnants of a completely different universe.
In a vacuum Megatron Origins is... an okay story for a random Transformers backstory, but for the much more interesting narrative IDW has taken on in the last half decade it doesn't fit in, help us understand anything or give any extra context. The only particularly interesting parts in relation to modern IDW are that some eventual Autobots like Sunstreaker are seen in the gladiator crowds and rallying behind Megatron, and perhaps specifically the presence of Overlord cheering on Megatron in the audience but that's about it. If you just want to read modern IDW, this isn't recommended reading nor is it anything I'd say helps even a little. Read it if you like but it's more a window into a forgotten time.

Kurona wrote:In a vacuum Megatron Origins is... an okay story for a random Transformers backstory, but for the much more interesting narrative IDW has taken on in the last half decade it doesn't fit in

Which stories since DOOP show the decepticon cause as being a noble one?

william-james88 wrote:

Kurona wrote:In a vacuum Megatron Origins is... an okay story for a random Transformers backstory, but for the much more interesting narrative IDW has taken on in the last half decade it doesn't fit in

Which stories since DOOP show the decepticon cause as being a noble one?

Well. Just about all of them.
The entire thing shows that the original intent was about equality and replacing the senate with something better. Hell, ex-RiD even has Soundwave trying to go back to that cause and revive that. It's the centerpiece of the entire character arcs of Megatron, Soundwave, Thundercracker, Ravage and arguably Cosmos. Even side stories outside of ex-RiD and MTMTE like Punishment have guys like Barricade still believing in the original intent of the cause and he in particular indoctrinates Swift into it. You can't get far into post-DOOP without finding this.

Kurona wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Kurona wrote:In a vacuum Megatron Origins is... an okay story for a random Transformers backstory, but for the much more interesting narrative IDW has taken on in the last half decade it doesn't fit in

Which stories since DOOP show the decepticon cause as being a noble one?

Well. Just about all of them.
The entire thing shows that the original intent was about equality and replacing the senate with something better. Hell, ex-RiD even has Soundwave trying to go back to that cause and revive that. It's the centerpiece of the entire character arcs of Megatron, Soundwave, Thundercracker, Ravage and arguably Cosmos. Even side stories outside of ex-RiD and MTMTE like Punishment have guys like Barricade still believing in the original intent of the cause and he in particular indoctrinates Swift into it. You can't get far into post-DOOP without finding this.

I read a lot of post DOOP stuff thinking I would get a sense of the noble decepticon cause, but I didnt get it. I read all of MTMTE and Megatron is not fond of his past self and pulls a complete 180 (or so he thinks), giving me hints that he doesnt really like his past all that much. Plus we have the DJD which are the worst of the worst and have the most twisted sense of nobility to the decepticon cause. They remind me more of hannibal lector than opressed rebels. The only part I saw a hint of it was in the Soundwaves issue where Soundwave is glad that Megatron sees Ravage and his buddies as equals. But I didnt see too much of that and was hoping for more.

william-james88 wrote:

Kurona wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

Kurona wrote:In a vacuum Megatron Origins is... an okay story for a random Transformers backstory, but for the much more interesting narrative IDW has taken on in the last half decade it doesn't fit in

Which stories since DOOP show the decepticon cause as being a noble one?

Well. Just about all of them.
The entire thing shows that the original intent was about equality and replacing the senate with something better. Hell, ex-RiD even has Soundwave trying to go back to that cause and revive that. It's the centerpiece of the entire character arcs of Megatron, Soundwave, Thundercracker, Ravage and arguably Cosmos. Even side stories outside of ex-RiD and MTMTE like Punishment have guys like Barricade still believing in the original intent of the cause and he in particular indoctrinates Swift into it. You can't get far into post-DOOP without finding this.

I read a lot of post DOOP stuff thinking I would get a sense of the noble decepticon cause, but I didnt get it. I read all of MTMTE and Megatron is not fond of his past self and pulls a complete 180 (or so he thinks), giving me hints that he doesnt really like his past all that much. Plus we have the DJD which are the worst of the worst and have the most twisted sense of nobility to the decepticon cause. They remind me more of hannibal lector than opressed rebels. The only part I saw a hint of it was in the Soundwaves issue where Soundwave is glad that Megatron sees Ravage and his buddies as equals. But I didnt see too much of that and was hoping for more.

That's true, but the point is more that the Decepticon cause perhaps started off as something grand and noble, but got twisted and corrupted into something awful and terrible that led to things like the Phase-Six Protocol, spawned monsters like Turmoil and allowed already-established monsters like Shockwave to get their work done.
And yet, all throughout Dark Cybertron, you see Megatron trying to justify to himself that the cause is right. That the Decepticons are still going to be the saviour of Cybertron. That's the crux of it; while there's definitely some Decepticons like Scorponok and Turmoil who have no doubts about the destruction they're causing, Megatron and quite a few others are still convinced that what they're doing is somehow right.
It could certainly be portrayed better, yes. But it's obvious that the Decepticon cause at some point had some good intentions and that's where Megatron in Dark Cybertron and Soundwave post-Dark Cybertron are coming from.

In Origins, the way I viewed it was thus:


Senator Ratbat sent Soundwave, who was working for him, to Megatron to provide him with the upgrades. Ratbat would profit by having these rebels destabilise the economy of Cybertron and the senate seat, thus allowing him to swoop in and take monopoly on Cybertron's markets, earning him a boat ton of cash. And maybe even a better position in the senate.


Soundwave turned on him and essentialy was a case of the servant becoming the master, forcing Ratbat into his cassette mode and taking him hostage, thus giving the Decepticons access to Ratbat's stockpile of everything, thus allowing their movement to grow to the threat they became.


As for who gave Megatron his fusion cannon, if memory serves, during the prison break in issue 3, right after Starscream has killed the senate, the escapees find a stockpile of weapons in the prison. Perhaps the weapons confiscated when they all got arrested.


Starscream is the one who says to Megatron they found something he might like and hands him the Fusion Cannon from that cache. In story never really explains where it came from. It was just in a pile of weapons they found.


Now, it has been quite some time since I read origins, but that's how I remember it going.