Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

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Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Ironhidensh » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:33 am

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So, something that seems to be happening more and more lately, in main line as well as Masterpiece, is the use of a so called "fake chest". It seems to be a bit of a controversial design choice for many.

While when it would first show up, I didn't care for it, I have personally learned to love it. It makes in almost every case, for a much cleaner and better looking robot mode. In the case of MP figures, it makes for a more screen accurate look.

So open it up, what does everybody think?
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby steals_your_goats » Thu Jan 04, 2018 6:51 am

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It doesn't bother me at all. Would be nice if every bot had a real chest but it's not the end of the world when they don't have it.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Va'al » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:02 am

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steals_your_goats wrote:It doesn't bother me at all. Would be nice if every bot had a real chest but it's not the end of the world when they don't have it.


Yet Another Unrealistic Standard for Robots.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby steals_your_goats » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:52 am

Weapon: Twin Swords
Va'al wrote:
steals_your_goats wrote:It doesn't bother me at all. Would be nice if every bot had a real chest but it's not the end of the world when they don't have it.


Yet Another Unrealistic Standard for Robots.


Robots with fake chests are just as fun and one's with real chests. Some might even find the fake chest robots more desirable or fun than ones with a real chest.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Latebrus-K » Thu Jan 04, 2018 7:53 am

As someone who doesn't collect MP, fake chests rarely bother me. For a lot of modern designs I'd say they're a necessary and welcome compromise. That being said I expect some real parts on older designs like G1 Prime and the Seekers. I've actually gotten pickier about this over time.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby wilcosu35 » Thu Jan 04, 2018 10:21 am

I honestly don't care about fake chests. For some bots it would be impossible to have the chest transform, or it would look ridiculous.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Wolfman Jake » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:33 am

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Fake chests can be a bit disappointing, mainly because they so often don't have to be used. I appreciate having new and more inventive transformation schemes for legacy characters, but not at the cost of adding in faux kibble to get the right look in a different way. One of the worst offenders for me are the fake cockpits that have been plaguing seekers of late. They really look silly, especially when you can still easily see the real cockpit hanging out on the back when a fake one is molded onto the front of the robot chest.

The release of PotP Jazz has also demonstrated how "lazy" some other character releases have been over the past several years when it comes to robot chests. Jazz has a car hood and bumber as his pectorals, like many other G1 cars. The new PotP figure of Jazz achieves this look with no cheating! It's a nice little transformation that serves the character well aesthetically AND functionally, still allowing for Scramble City style limb versatility for combiners. However, Prowl and some others really got the shaft in this regard when it came to their releases in Combiner Wars. If Jazz can do it, Prowl can too, but unfortunately, Prowl got stuck being a simple repaint of Streetwise with a new head. This left Prowl very flat chested with his vehicle mode hood and bumper dumped on his back. It's for this reason that Henkei Prowl will remain my "Classics" Prowl on my display shelves, despite the fact that the Combiner Wars version has a much better head and face sculpt. Hmmm...I guess this example is more of a "wrong chest" than a fake chest, though the chest flap was often colored in by Hasbro and Takara to mimic the proper G1 look of Prowl and others.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby shajaki » Thu Jan 04, 2018 11:46 am

Motto: "A man who wants nothing is invincible."
Fake chests out of necessity like MP Sunstreaker, totally forgivable. Fake chests out of laziness like.... *insert example here*, not so much.

All said, I'm pretty easy going about it though.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Wolfman Jake » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:02 pm

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shajaki wrote:Fake chests out of necessity like MP Sunstreaker, totally forgivable.


It's even easier when it's done so well with an example like MP Sunstreaker. The robot mode chest is hidden right underneath where the real car parts are in vehicle mode. Then the real vehicle mode parts get almost completely hidden away in robot mode, leaving the downsized "faux" part on the chest to match the animation model with its wacky size-shrinking magic. It's so flawless, it's almost like it's not cheating, lol!
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby LOST Cybertronian » Thu Jan 04, 2018 2:54 pm

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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Ironhidensh » Thu Jan 04, 2018 4:07 pm

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LOST Cybertronian wrote:Do robots get boob jobs?

Your turn is over. :-P
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Emerje » Thu Jan 04, 2018 5:58 pm

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Yeah, I agree with those saying if it's necessary for a good looking bot mode then it's perfectly fine. But when it's confusing (didn't understand as a kid why PM Prime looked like a truck from the front and back), when it's because of a gimmick getting in the way (any number of CW cars like Prowl), because of mold sharing (CW Prime), or because of laziness ("Evergreen" 4.5 Optimus Prime) I become less accepting of it.

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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby LOST Cybertronian » Fri Jan 05, 2018 10:37 am

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Ironhidensh wrote:
LOST Cybertronian wrote:Do robots get boob jobs?

Your turn is over. :-P


I was actually disappointed there were so many posts in this thread without someone making the joke so I took it upon myself
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby ExciKaiser » Fri Jan 05, 2018 2:27 pm

For me it's : "it depends".

It depends the goal, the context and the result.

For example, I've no problem here :

652afc5a-88da-4aeb-9901-26dc96c34813.jpg


It's technically a fake chest. But this chest doesn't try to emulate the front of the truck mode, it doesn't even try to look like a truck. It's just emulating/stylizing Optimus chest.
And the actual front truck is not hidden in the back, it's actually forming other parts of the bot.

And I'm 100% fine with that.

Same here :

img_5033f.jpg


On the original toy, the torso was the car hood.
Here the car hood is on the back and the front is... something completely different. Like Optimus, it doesn't even try to look like a car hood, it's a complete independant torso, it's not an emulaiton of the car hood.



On the contrary, I can't accept this :

Sans titre 4.jpg
Sans titre 4.jpg (65.84 KiB) Viewed 11879 times


This is definitely emulating the car hood, while the real one ends in the back.
And to add to this, he also has fake wheels under his feet (not even painted).
We're no longer talking about only fake hoods but complete set of faux parts. This is pure laziness.




There's some where I've been mitigated.

For example :

Sans titre 5.jpg



If it has been sold as stand-alone deluxe, I would have called him names, the same as Bumblebee, with this 100% fake car hood.

But it's because the hood is used on the combined mode :

Sans titre 6.jpg


So it's not laziness, it's a technical constraint. So I'm fine in the end.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Jan 06, 2018 10:03 pm

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I prefer chests made out 100% of real vehicle parts. simply because I LOVE perfect and clever engineering. Best example being Prime 1st Edition Bulkhead. That was BRILLIANT.

Image

It bother me a lot when they use a shrink and deformed obvious vehicle part when the actual vehicle part is clearly visible on the robot mode. Worst offender being ROTF Thrust and Dirge with their fake cockpit chest while the real cockpit is their WHOLE ARM.

Image

I forgive it when it's just a part and the vehicle kibble is hidden, like both MP Optimuses. Fake belly, but original pectorals.

Image

There is also all those chests that are 100% robot part. Like ROTF Bludgeon and so may other bots. Those get a free pass.

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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby william-james88 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 12:43 am

shajaki wrote:Fake chests out of necessity like MP Sunstreaker, totally forgivable. Fake chests out of laziness like....DOTM Voyager Sentinel Prime, not so much.

All said, I'm pretty easy going about it though.


;)

I have more to write but not much time. All I will say for now is that I preffer em real to fake, but sometime fake looks pretty good.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Black Hat » Sat Jan 20, 2018 11:59 am

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I don't mind fake kibble when it's unavoidable without compromising the figure (MP-10's grille for example). I prefer "real" kibble to fake, and if it's not possible to get the actual details on there I'd rather they just used some other detailing rather than trying to go "Hey, this is totally the *Insert vehicle part here* even though it patantly isn't!". DOTM Voyager Prime does it pretty well; sure his chest is fake but considering the scale and engineering limitations it's forgivable, and it doesn't compromise his looks or functionality, so eh, I can forgive it. (Though I really wish he didn't have all that grey plastic, I must give him some nice chrome some day...)

One thing I DO like is "Faux kibble except not really" or "Kibble homage" where they do detailing on the chest or whatever that resembles the iconic detailing but isn't actually trying to pretend that it's that detail. So for example, RID2001 Prime's chest, which is coloured like the iconic window chest, but is otherwise a really nicely sculpted "muscular" robot torso. Or Transmetal Megatron- he has the face details on his chest but it's clear that it's just there for "rule of cool" rather than trying to convince anyone that his dino head actually becomes his chest.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Jan 20, 2018 3:26 pm

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Speaking of "faux-kibble", one thing I REALLY hate and find really stupid are the FAKE WHEELS.... especially when they are unpainted. It's prevalent on movie figures but it's also found on some of the best transformers out there like Prime 1st Edition Bulkhead. Pay attention to the inside of his foot below:

Image

Or DOTM voyager Optimus (thighs):

Image

I can understand the toy must match the show's aesthetics even if it cannot transform the same way. But for crying out loud, PAINT THE FRIGGIN FAKE WHEELS IF YOU HAVE TO MOLD THEM.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Wolfman Jake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 4:47 pm

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I agree about the faux wheels, Kanrabat. That's a pet peeve of mine when they go unpainted and the real wheels aren't even well hidden in robot mode. Something like MP-14 Masterpiece Red Alert does it right. The real wheels from the front of the car and tucked up under the chest and out of sight, making the faux wheels on the shoulder assemblies look much more natural, even though their size doesn't match the wheels on the outsides of the lower legs.

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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:26 pm

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For MP Red Alert, THAT'S how faux-wheels must be done.

Is it the same thing with MP Sideswipe? I have him but I'm in the middle of a move so I have no access to the toy for now.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby steals_your_goats » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:40 pm

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-Kanrabat- wrote:For MP Red Alert, THAT'S how faux-wheels must be done.

Is it the same thing with MP Sideswipe? I have him but I'm in the middle of a move so I have no access to the toy for now.

No Sideswipe doesn't have those
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby -Kanrabat- » Sat Jan 20, 2018 6:50 pm

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steals_your_goats wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:For MP Red Alert, THAT'S how faux-wheels must be done.

Is it the same thing with MP Sideswipe? I have him but I'm in the middle of a move so I have no access to the toy for now.

No Sideswipe doesn't have those


Odd. Appart the strobe lights, one should be a straight repaint of the other. Unless the original cartoon...

Image

Image

Eh...............
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Wolfman Jake » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:28 pm

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-Kanrabat- wrote:
steals_your_goats wrote:
-Kanrabat- wrote:For MP Red Alert, THAT'S how faux-wheels must be done.

Is it the same thing with MP Sideswipe? I have him but I'm in the middle of a move so I have no access to the toy for now.

No Sideswipe doesn't have those


Odd. Appart the strobe lights, one should be a straight repaint of the other. Unless the original cartoon...

Image

Image

Eh...............


Red Alert's character model is actually based more on the G1 toy than Sideswipe's character model is, believe it or not. That's why Red Alert has the shoulder tires and the car doors draped down parallel to his arms in robot mode. The original Red Alert toy AND the original Sideswipe toy both had those features.
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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby william-james88 » Sat Jan 20, 2018 10:51 pm

Wolfman Jake wrote:I agree about the faux wheels, Kanrabat. That's a pet peeve of mine when they go unpainted and the real wheels aren't even well hidden in robot mode.

How about if the paint is there but the wheels are not?

Image

:lol:

Also, the very worst offender to this faux parts thing is that weaponzer bumblebee. He has 4 extra fake wheels in robot mode and that means all 8 are visible in robot mode!

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Re: Lets talk about "Fake Chests", yay or nay?

Postby Wolfman Jake » Sun Jan 21, 2018 12:43 am

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william-james88 wrote:
Wolfman Jake wrote:I agree about the faux wheels, Kanrabat. That's a pet peeve of mine when they go unpainted and the real wheels aren't even well hidden in robot mode.

How about if the paint is there but the wheels are not?

Image

:lol:

Also, the very worst offender to this faux parts thing is that weaponzer bumblebee. He has 4 extra fake wheels in robot mode and that means all 8 are visible in robot mode!

Image


The black shoulders on Unite Warriors Dragstrip don't bother me, actually. They're just meant to homage the original cartoon look of the character, not fool us into thinking they are wheels. Unpainted fake wheels are much sadder than an actual body part (shoulders in this case) painted black because the G1 version had a tires there. It's not faux kibble, just a paint app choice. It creates a classic "color silhouette," if that makes any sense. And frankly, it's nice to have some color other than yellow on UW Dragstrip.

As for Weaponizer Bumblebee, that is just sad to the extreme. Who honestly thought that looked okay? What is it with these yellow robot cars thinking they need more than four wheels anyway?
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Transformers Podcast: Twincast / Podcast #193 - Eulogy
Twincast / Podcast #193:
"Eulogy"
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Posted: Monday, January 29th, 2018
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