Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[ZeroWolf]

Wouldn't it be awesome if we could stop calling them "Machinimas" and "Magnas" ?

Cant we just call them what they are ? (cartoons and comics)

Seems like someone is just trying to make something sound overly sophisticated. Like if they feel the need justify adults watching cartoons or reading comics.

I dont know if the terms are offically coined by Hasbro/Takara or just fan made, but thats my 2 cents on them.

To be fair Manga is used to describe comics of Japanese origin, and is used specifically to distinguish them from the western counterparts, though both cover many varied topics.

[Va'al]

General point:
Comics is the Anglophone name of the medium of sequential storytelling with interaction of image and text. The comic book, manga, manhwa, quadrinhos, fumetti, bande dessinnée are various regional incarnations of that medium (Anglosphere, Japan, China, Brazil, Italy, Francosphere respectively; examples, not comprehensive).

News answer:
So yes, we will keep using the accurate term for all of these. If it's an AngloAmerican comic book, it's a comic (book), if it's a Japanese manga, it's a manga. If it's an animated series produced by Hasbro and Machinima, it's Machinima's animated series.

[Rated X]

Wouldn't it be awesome if we could stop calling them "Machinimas" and "Magnas" ?

Cant we just call them what they are ? (cartoons and comics)

Seems like someone is just trying to make something sound overly sophisticated. Like if they feel the need justify adults watching cartoons or reading comics.

I dont know if the terms are offically coined by Hasbro/Takara or just fan made, but thats my 2 cents on them.

I'm a bit confused what you're referring to. I refer to it as Machinima's Titans Return because

1. It's produced by Machinima
And
2. I want to be clear that I'm talking about the cartoon and not the toy line.

1. I dont see the word "Sunbow" being used in the title to describe every story about the G1 cartoon (such as all the unreleased audio clips)

2. If you want to be "clear" that you are talking about the cartoon and not the toy line, wouldnt using the word "cartoon" make more sense?

Because you sure as hell confused me. Im sure Im not the only one on here who doesnt read the credits and know the names of executive producers or the companies they work for.

[primalxconvoy]

Surely there shouldn't be any confusion as to which animation is being discussed as that's the title of the thread? Or is it the title that's being debated?

[Rated X]

And Magnas are a model of car put out by Mitsubishi ... so ... yeah. Cool story X, cool story.

Well im referring to the use of the word "magna" here:

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ine/40367/

Even though other sites clearly skip the Japanese moniker and call it what it is, a comic

http://news.tfw2005.com/2017/09/30/taka ... ine-349980

I love both sites equally but I fail to see the point of using the word "Magna" on this site when describing a comic.

By the way I dont follow Japanese auto makers, I drive a Chevy.

[Sabrblade]

And Magnas are a model of car put out by Mitsubishi ... so ... yeah. Cool story X, cool story.

Well im referring to the use of the word "magna" here:

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ine/40367/

Even though other sites clearly skip the Japanese moniker and call it what it is, a comic

http://news.tfw2005.com/2017/09/30/taka ... ine-349980

I love both sites equally but I fail to see the point of using the word "Magna" on this site when describing a comic.

By the way I dont follow Japanese auto makers, I drive a Chevy.

I don't see the word "magna" in there. I see the word "manga", but not "magna".

[Rated X]

Surely there shouldn't be any confusion as to which animation is being discussed as that's the title of the thread? Or is it the title that's being debated?

I wouldnt really call it a "debate".

Im just suggesting the addition of the word "Machinima" is unnecessary. Its a damn cartoon.

Some over-analytical individuals on here will surely seize the opportunity to say X doesnt know his Hasbro affiliated CGI animation companies so he must be a complete moron.

I got better things to do than read the credits at the end of 5 minute cartoons.

[primalxconvoy]

Surely there shouldn't be any confusion as to which animation is being discussed as that's the title of the thread? Or is it the title that's being debated?

I wouldnt really call it a "debate".

Im just suggesting the addition of the word "Machinima" is unnecessary. Its a damn cartoon.

Some over-analytical individuals on here will surely seize the opportunity to say X doesnt know his Hasbro affiliated CGI animation companies so he must be a complete moron.

I got better things to do than read the credits at the end of 5 minute cartoons.

Noone thinks you're a moron. If anyone states as such, simply report them.

[Rated X]

And Magnas are a model of car put out by Mitsubishi ... so ... yeah. Cool story X, cool story.

Well im referring to the use of the word "magna" here:

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ine/40367/

Even though other sites clearly skip the Japanese moniker and call it what it is, a comic

http://news.tfw2005.com/2017/09/30/taka ... ine-349980

I love both sites equally but I fail to see the point of using the word "Magna" on this site when describing a comic.

By the way I dont follow Japanese auto makers, I drive a Chevy.

I don't see the word "magna" in there. I see the word "manga", but not "magna".

Ok you clearly got me on that and I give you all the credit in the world.


So now that weve gotten past the fact that ol X doesnt bother to thoroughly read the spelling of obscure Japanese terminology, lets get to the meat and potatoes of my argument:

Does the news guy feel more sophisticated because he is using Japanese terminology on an American site?

I doubt theres any confusion that the comic originated from Japan considering the comic is wriien in ummmm....Japanese.

News flash: its a damn comic. Call it such. Manga....sheesh

Apologies in advance if I went a bit off topic. I know this is not the Takara Legends comics forum. I was just killing two birds (or words) with one stone.

[primalxconvoy]

And Magnas are a model of car put out by Mitsubishi ... so ... yeah. Cool story X, cool story.

Well im referring to the use of the word "magna" here:

https://www.seibertron.com/transformers ... ine/40367/

Even though other sites clearly skip the Japanese moniker and call it what it is, a comic

http://news.tfw2005.com/2017/09/30/taka ... ine-349980

I love both sites equally but I fail to see the point of using the word "Magna" on this site when describing a comic.

By the way I dont follow Japanese auto makers, I drive a Chevy.

I don't see the word "magna" in there. I see the word "manga", but not "magna".

Ok you clearly got me on that and I give you all the credit in the world.


So now that weve gotten past the fact that ol X doesnt bother to thoroughly read the spelling of obscure Japanese terminology, lets get to the meat and potatoes of my argument:

Does the news guy feel more sophisticated because he is using Japanese terminology on an American site?

I doubt theres any confusion that the comic originated from Japan considering the comic is wriien in ummmm....Japanese.

News flash: its a damn comic. Call it such. Manga....sheesh

Apologies in advance if I went a bit off topic. I know this is not the Takara Legends comics forum. I was just killing two birds (or words lol) with one stone.

Well, to be honest, "manga" is an English loan word. It's not elitist to call it such, especially if it was a comic from Japan. "Comic" is fine, too, as both are just terms of preference.

As for "machinima", well, there are two reasons for the term's use; either it is an animation using (video game) assets, and/or was made for or by the "Machinima" channel/brand/company/whateveritis.

Here's the definition for the former:

- https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Machinima

Hope this helps.

[King Kuuga]

I think people specifically call it "Machinima's Titans Return animated series" as sort of a qualifier. They're not up to the level of what we expect from a more mainstream animated series, but most web-savvy people are aware that Machinima's platform caters to shorter-form media.

And the comics are referred to as manga because that implies the Japanese sequential illustrated tropes and mechanics they employ that are not seen as much or at all in American comics. Might also remind people to read from right to left.

I haven't really shared my thoughts on the PG-13 nature of this series' dialogue yet, so I'll throw those two cents in now. It's not the principle of swearing that bothers me specifically, I think it's fine to use for effect, but in this series it feels like they're including it just because they can. There's no drama to it, no anguish, it's just there.

I have a minor point of contention regarding this: this show is not PG-13. It's solidly PG. You can fit a few "damns" and "hells" and (according to TF:TM) even a "****" in a PG film. It's not language alone that determines the rating, it's the level of action, violence, themes, and intensity of what's onscreen, and nothing in this series surpasses is any worse than TF: Prime, it just sticks in a few curse words because..... reasons. I agree with your comment that the profanity doesn't add anything, but considering this a PG-13 work is a bit much.

You misunderstand. I never said it was a "PG-13 work", just a PG-13 nature of the dialogue specifically. I understand the action/violence factor, and I agree with you, it's nothing worse than Prime, which is why I specified dialogue.

I hesitate to talk about any 80s movie in reference to PG-13, as it was brand new at the time, having been instituted in late 1984. A lot of 80s PG movies pushed the envelope, and I'd argue that TF The Movie potentially deserved a PG-13 rating, between the language and violence, as many of the 80s PG movies do. (Back to the Future comes to mind) I think the only thing that saved it (other than PG-13 not being very widely used) was the fact it was animated.
You'd be surprised how many people get offended by "Goddamn", which is why it's censored on TV and in songs on the radio, while "Damn" isn't. I stand by my thought, I think it's accurate.

I still disagree but I see your point. I'm an opponent of the ratings creep that's been apparent in recent years, with g-rated content getting slapped with a PG and PG-13 films running the gamut from family films with some language all the way to bloodless brutal violence. But that's another topic. So we'll agree that the profanity was ill-used in this show, and agree to disagree on how extreme it is in principle.

[Sunstar]

I went to their tumbler to view the last few, and for some reason, I can't find anything larger than a stupidly small thumbnail - is there any other source out there for watching these?


I feel like one of those hyenas from lion King.... Machinima... machinima.. machinima... sorry

I'd call Japanese Comics Manga - and North American comics as Comics. As a person who writes, it's not an elitist feel when I use a different term or phrase, it's just I like a variety of words. I love learning new words, and using those words when the opportunity arises.

[Black Bumblebee]

Well It was kind of cool to see Fort Max as a fully powered Titan, able to stand up to Trypticon even with augmented Powers. Having Trypticons transformation again shrouded was disappointing. They should have just made this an actual animated series instead of a cheap web-series. Of course when I say full animated series, I mean with professional level writers, directors, animators etc...Yeah I know Hasbro would never go for it, that's why we cant have nice things.

I would have been happy with just an animated comic style affair, with great voice acting and some nice effects. There was a pretty good motion comic a while back about the War Within that seemed better than Machinima's efforts.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JPeHw4laWos

Awe! Someone remembers my old cartoon Still sad that I never was able to complete it--teaching full time and being the primary guardian of a grandchild has kept me too busy.

[o.supreme]

Cant we just call them what they are ? (cartoons and comics)

Seems like someone is just trying to make something sound overly sophisticated. Like if they feel the need justify adults watching cartoons or reading comics.

I don't think there is any misidentification in most forums. Anything published by Marvel, DW, IDW or Punpub etc... is always referred to as a comic. Anything that is published in Japan such as the in-package stories with Transformers Legends is referred to as Manga because that's what it is. It's short for Mangajin (Romanization of Magazine in Japan). Aesthetically they may be very similar, but calling anything that comes from japan a Manga is not over sophistication, its just correct.

Would you force everyone to stop calling all of Jim Henson's creations as Muppets, and just use the general term puppets? It is true they are all puppets, but what gets the point across more-- "I saw that new Puppet movie with Kermit the Frog", or just I saw "The Muppets"

As for Cartoon. I see it this way...Can you refer to the TR series as a "cartoon" , sure. But for me personally (and I don't expect anyone else to follow this logic...) the word "cartoon" has always been synonymous with humor (think of the film, "Who Framed Roger Rabbit"- Toon Town, and all creatures from there were "Toons") -Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse, Popeye, Scooby-Doo and all their kin' I would consider as cartoons.

However for anything that involves action, adventure, sci-fi etc...I refer to those as an "animated series". Sure its a bit longer, but IMHO it gives a little more respect to the work, and distinguishes it from others. One case in point, I don't think I've ever heard anyone on a forum write "The batman cartoon from the 1990's", or "Fox's Batman cartoon". I've always seen it written as "Batman: The Animated Series". - that title alone makes it absolutely definitive which Batman you are talking about, among the many Batman shows that have been produced over the years.

So when speaking of any Transformers show, in context, I will always use the term "Animated Series", and not cartoon. Though technically cartoon is not incorrect, and I don't call people out for using it. The same goes for "G1". Personally I hate that term. To me it waters down and is completely disrespectful to everything that defined what we have now, almost 34 years later. Star Trek fans use the term "OST" (or Original Series Trek), and I think that's fine. Me personally I always refer to "The Original Series" in relation to anything that occurred with Transformers between 1984-1991. You will never see me use the term "G1" unless I'm quoting someone else. But by the same token, I don't fault others for using it. I know its popular, its just not for me.

[Va'al]

Glad to see we're all on topic.

[Sabrblade]

So we go through two episodes building up to Trypticon's threat, and seven episodes of a big fight against Trypticon, only for the last episode to have Trypticon just fall over with no real payoff, rendering the entire fight against him completely and utterly pointless.

Oh, but look! A wild Megatronus has appeared! Out of nowhere! Completely disconnected in meaning from anything that came before! Because!

-Bugs Bunny, Mickey Mouse, Popeye, Scooby-Doo and all their kin' I would consider as cartoons.

I myself call those "shorts". "Animated shorts", to more precise.

[o.supreme]

So we go through two episodes building up to Trypticon's threat, and seven episodes of a big fight against Trypticon, only for the last episode to have Trypticon just fall over with no real payoff, rendering the entire fight against him completely and utterly pointless.

Oh, but look! A wild Megatronus has appeared! Out of nowhere! Completely disconnected in meaning from anything that came before! Because!

Yeah, I totally get that. But it at least explained -why Starscream's disembodied spirit went into Trypticon. I mean Starscream was an unwilling participant. He referred to "The Gods", but I had the lingering question from the beginning as to Why would they do what they did? Megatronus being behind it all at least was an explanation (even if not a good one). Why Megatronus could not have simply brought back Trypticon himself, or perhaps possesed Trypticon wasn't really well thought out. Maybe they just thought "Starscream's Ghost"= Nostalgia for the animated series, we'll go with that...I don't know...

I used the Lord of the Rings explanation earlier. Again I'm not excusing what was done, I feel just as unfulfilled that Trypticon didn't get a real beat down we were hoping.

What fascinates me however is, the cast and character reveals from yesterday. With the introduction of Optimus Primal (who will probably start out something akin to his BW S1 form and through obtaining the Matrix will upgrade to his Optimal Optimus form). it appears Optimus Prime will not be coming back, and there is little chance of Rodimus to be restored back to his original form. -Two Primes possibly going down *forever*, to give rise to Optimus Primal? That would be refreshingly different if nothing else.

[Rodimus Knight]

I think what makes the death of Optimus Prime worse was the treatment giving to his successor. I think Peter should be more upset with that. Having nearly finished watching the G1 Series from start to finish ( I should end today's view with the end of Season 3 and just need to finish the head master 3 parter).

They way the ultimately portrayed Rodimus Prime is really awful. They could have portrayed, bu him as a young leader learning to lead, but it feels more like they've portrayed him as a mostly incompetent leader who hates being in the role of leader. Sure it was thrust upon him, but if the Matrix Chooses it's leaders, then he should have been better able to handle it. Again, show him as learning to be a leader, not just making him a fool.

Also annoyed that the voice actor apparently couldn't come up with a younger sounding voice for those moment he went back to Hot Rod, nor could you tell his robot modes apart. But I digress.

He does have his moments, but they felt like they were few and far between.

So yeah, they killed Prime to sell more toys or different characters but they could have at least given the replacement a better portrayal and given some more meaning to the Death of Optimus Prime instead it felt like his death was meaningless in the animation. Even with them planning on bringing him back, Rodimus / Hot rod could have taken up a place a second in command under Optimus afterwards to continue to learning to lead.

[Bronzewolf]

Wouldn't it be awesome if we could stop calling them "Machinimas" and "Magnas" ?

Cant we just call them what they are ? (cartoons and comics)

Seems like someone is just trying to make something sound overly sophisticated. Like if they feel the need justify adults watching cartoons or reading comics.

I dont know if the terms are offically coined by Hasbro/Takara or just fan made, but thats my 2 cents on them.

I'm a bit confused what you're referring to. I refer to it as Machinima's Titans Return because

1. It's produced by Machinima
And
2. I want to be clear that I'm talking about the cartoon and not the toy line.

1. I dont see the word "Sunbow" being used in the title to describe every story about the G1 cartoon (such as all the unreleased audio clips)

2. If you want to be "clear" that you are talking about the cartoon and not the toy line, wouldnt using the word "cartoon" make more sense?

Because you sure as hell confused me. Im sure Im not the only one on here who doesnt read the credits and know the names of executive producers or the companies they work for.

I'm only using Machinima as a possessive proper noun, not as a replacement word for "Cartoon". (E.G. Machinima's Titans Return, a cartoon belonging to the company Machinima)
Credit reading is unnecessary quite a few people and every news story refers to it in this way. (Also, there aren't even credits to read in this series, just a giant logo sequence for Machinima at the end of every episode. It even audibly says MACHINIMA at the end.)

It's just to differentiate the Toy line from the series. I personally don’t like to call it a cartoon or a show because it's not, really. Being only 11 minutes long and entirely online, it's an Animated Short more or less in my eyes.

(Also, a lot of people use Sunbow when talking about the G1 cartoon. Just like people say "the G1 Marvel Comics".)

So now that weve gotten past the fact that ol X doesnt bother to thoroughly read the spelling of obscure Japanese terminology, lets get to the meat and potatoes of my argument:

Does the news guy feel more sophisticated because he is using Japanese terminology on an American site?

I doubt theres any confusion that the comic originated from Japan considering the comic is wriien in ummmm....Japanese.

News flash: its a damn comic. Call it such. Manga....sheesh

"Manga" is not a elitist term, and not ever remotely close to being obscure. Barnes and Noble has a Manga category. Heck, my local libraries have a shelf designated "Manga". We are not the first people to bring this term to the American market.

Also, as far as I understand it, Manga isn't interchangeable with comic. Manga refers to a specific kind of Japanese comic, as, you know, comic book is a different thing than a comic strip over here. I could be wrong, but that's what I've gathered from personal experience.

[Stormtalon]

It's God-'fricking'-zilla. Seriously, how do you mess that up? Trypticon is Godzilla and the transformers are the citizens running in terror. Done and done. Now cut me a paycheck.

[partholon]

caught the last episode last night.

i have to say i really liked it. the introduction of megatronus reminded me alot of how he got introduced in dreamwaves books by furman. the bit with fort max and the master sword is practically channeling what happened in the books with grimlock.

pretty much straight off the batt you see your dealing with something in a totally different league.

i also found it strangely touching in how fort max caught trypticon as he was falling over. i really did get the sense there was feck all titans left and as such cared about any of them that was left. TBH none of this was his fault- it was all starscream in the driving seat- so who knows what we'll get from trypticon should he appear in POTPs

once again i still find myself smiling that for a program called "titans return" we get waaaaay more combiner action.

at this rate POTPs will be all titans and just one prime.



still this searies was alot better than CWs . the script and voice acting is improved greatly , and the designs have a lovely kirby-esque fell to them. which i wasnt expecting at all.

yes the frame rate still sucks, and it did annoy me that we never got to see ANY titan transform clearly. seriously that should be an awsome sight and a selling point for the show- yet we get a confused "cloudy" mess to cover up swathes of it.

but i gotta give credit where its due. this DOES feel like its own thing set an indeterminate ways ahead in the future thats started to hint at whats gone on before to get us to this place.

im looking foward to the next series.

[Burn]

Glad to see we're all on topic.

I'm just glad to see we've got another one who thinks they can tell us how this site should be run instead of just getting the **** over it and clicking the back button.

[primalxconvoy]

Glad to see we're all on topic.

I'm just glad to see we've got another one who thinks they can tell us how this site should be run instead of just getting the **** over it and clicking the back button.

There's no need for that, Burn. You have all the tools at your disposal to issue warnings, PM people or ban them. You're a mod and I'm sure a very respected member here. I have appreciated your help even when we disagree on matters, which definitely gets my respect. However, what did that comment above achieve, except to take the discussion further off topic and/or incite "another one" to reply?

"Speak softly, and carry a big stick." 

(Source: - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Big_Stick_ideology )

Plus, for the record I've just spent time defending the News Staff's decision regarding vocabulary choice, not criticising it.

Thanks for your time.

[primalxconvoy]

Well It was kind of cool to see Fort Max as a fully powered Titan, able to stand up to Trypticon even with augmented Powers. Having Trypticons transformation again shrouded was disappointing. They should have just made this an actual animated series instead of a cheap web-series. Of course when I say full animated series, I mean with professional level writers, directors, animators etc...Yeah I know Hasbro would never go for it, that's why we cant have nice things.

I would have been happy with just an animated comic style affair, with great voice acting and some nice effects. There was a pretty good motion comic a while back about the War Within that seemed better than Machinima's efforts.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?v=JPeHw4laWos

Awe! Someone remembers my old cartoon Still sad that I never was able to complete it--teaching full time and being the primary guardian of a grandchild has kept me too busy.

You're welcome! As a teacher myself, I fully understand the lack of time, even within the job itself!

Those motion comics were great. I remember a while back Hasbro made some of their own and they were worse than yours.

[Sabrblade]

It's just, to me, we went through two episodes of building up to Trypticon's threat, then seven episodes of almost nothing but fighting Trypticon, only for this last episode to just stop what it's doing, have Trypticon just fall over with no real payoff (rendering the entire previous fight against him completely and utterly pointless), and then almost immediately switches to doing something else entirely that's just barely (if at all) connected to what came before.

I mean, we literally go from "WemuststopTrypticon!WemuststopTrypticon!WemuststopTrypticon!WemuststopTrypticon!" to "Oh, he stopped... That's goodWHOA! A wild Megatronus has appeared! Because!"

And then there's the cliffhanger ending from last episode. Trypticon eats the Matrix and is about to power up from it... only for that to just be one big fake-out as he quickly just spits it (and Perceptor, Victorion, and the Enigma) right out at the start of this episode, with the sudden jump over to Megatronus being this all new threat from out of nowhere likewise making the entire series one big fake-out.

This whole show was one massive case of trolling that it begs of the question of just why should we have cared about any of what happened in it at all if all of it was of no consequence whatsoever? And that's on top of the fact that, even before this final episode told us that there was no point to any of it at all, the episodes before had already given us so little to care about in this show in the first place.