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Underc3211 wrote:Top 5 repaints that ruined great toys

I know it's an old proposal, but we definitely need this one.

The TLK premium line?

Kurona wrote:The TLK premium line?

I probably didn't follwed the TLK news enough to get the joke .

ExciKaiser wrote:

Underc3211 wrote:Top 5 repaints that ruined great toys

I know it's an old proposal, but we definitely need this one.

Its a fun proposal but I cant think of any that are actualy ruined. Its a strong word.

I have a lot of examples of redecos better than the original or redecos that improve the original release. But redecos that actually ruin them? I fail to think of any legit ones.

A list I had in mind and was thinking of writing up, inlight of the sunstreaker discussion, was best use of fake parts. My number 1 so far is Voyager AOE Optimus who has a ton of fake parts but it all just works so well that I really dont mind.

william-james88 wrote:

ExciKaiser wrote:

Underc3211 wrote:Top 5 repaints that ruined great toys

I know it's an old proposal, but we definitely need this one.

Its a fun proposal but I cant think of any that are actualy ruined. Its a strong word.

I have a lot of examples of redecos better than the original or redecos that improve the original release. But redecos that actually ruin them? I fail to think of any legit ones.

A list I had in mind and was thinking of writing up, inlight of the sunstreaker discussion, was best use of fake parts. My number 1 so far is Voyager AOE Optimus who has a ton of fake parts but it all just works so well that I really dont mind.

TR Getaway, UW Drag Strip, TLK Premium Bumblebee... there's quite a few examples of redecoes worse than the original.

william-james88 wrote:Its a fun proposal but I cant think of any that are actualy ruined. Its a strong word.

I have a lot of examples of redecos better than the original or redecos that improve the original release. But redecos that actually ruin them? I fail to think of any legit ones.

And if we start with G2...

Kurona wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

ExciKaiser wrote:

Underc3211 wrote:Top 5 repaints that ruined great toys

I know it's an old proposal, but we definitely need this one.

Its a fun proposal but I cant think of any that are actualy ruined. Its a strong word.

I have a lot of examples of redecos better than the original or redecos that improve the original release. But redecos that actually ruin them? I fail to think of any legit ones.

A list I had in mind and was thinking of writing up, inlight of the sunstreaker discussion, was best use of fake parts. My number 1 so far is Voyager AOE Optimus who has a ton of fake parts but it all just works so well that I really dont mind.

TR Getaway, UW Drag Strip, TLK Premium Bumblebee... there's quite a few examples of redecoes worse than the original.

You see, the only one valid there would be BB. TR Getaway would be argued not to be a redeco since its partly a retool (so should be considered independently), and UW DragStrip isnt a redeco since its the first use of the mold from Takara (so also considered independently). The original deco on BB is better, yes, but it doesnt ruin anything.

The examples that came after on the other hand are straight redecos and I can see why the second one with clear grey plastic would be on one's mind. But I dont see how the purple silverbolt ruins the toy. Its not great and doesnt improve anything, but I feel ruin is a very strong word.

Maybe top 5 redecos worse than the original would be a better title.

And Kurona, that Dragstrip would be more for a top 5 times a Hasrbo toy was Superior to Takara. Its a list I already have and its almost done, but I dont remember if Dragstrip made the list. I think there were 5 worst offenders, like the TAV insecticons with the remolded chest to acomodate the sticker.

Wait. Why don't people like Takara Dragstrip?

Sorry if I missed it in the forums.

I like TT Dragstrip better than Hasbro.

TK415 wrote:Wait. Why don't people like Takara Dragstrip?

Sorry if I missed it in the forums.

I like TT Dragstrip better than Hasbro.

They found him too yellow. Plus, they use black paint to mimick wheels that arent there. Pretty much, they are painting him toon accurate when the mold doesnt support that.

william-james88 wrote:

TK415 wrote:Wait. Why don't people like Takara Dragstrip?

Sorry if I missed it in the forums.

I like TT Dragstrip better than Hasbro.

They found him too yellow. Plus, they use black paint to mimick wheels that arent there. Pretty much, they are painting him toon accurate when the mold doesnt support that.

Awesome, thanks for the info, WJ.

The black is a little silly, I can see that.

But the G1 toy and cartoon both looked like that. Let's not make the majority of toys monochrome, but it is very cool for a few characters, Dragstrip included. The color looks elegant and harmonious and true to the character.

Thanks again WJ

I'm not sure if this is still going, but seeing as the plans are empty:
Top fiction-accurate toys
(Like Generations Springer and Masterpiece Cheetor)

MagicDeath wrote:I'm not sure if this is still going, but seeing as the plans are empty:
Top fiction-accurate toys
(Like Generations Springer and Masterpiece Cheetor)

The plans are only empty because I ran out of predone ones and I have to hustle and complete more. By complete I mean write the paragraphs and get the pics. I want to at least get to number 100 with these lists.

Fiction accurate is cool but I keep running into the problem of it being dominated by one or two lines like Animated and Masterpiece.

william-james88 wrote:

MagicDeath wrote:I'm not sure if this is still going, but seeing as the plans are empty:
Top fiction-accurate toys
(Like Generations Springer and Masterpiece Cheetor)

The plans are only empty because I ran out of predone ones and I have to hustle and complete more. By complete I mean write the paragraphs and get the pics. I want to at least get to number 100 with these lists.

Fiction accurate is cool but I keep running into the problem of it being dominated by one or two lines like Animated and Masterpiece.

That is what I was thinking too, but I wanted to see what WJ would say. Also, let's say WJ does make that list, wouldn't MP all pretty much be a tie. Was Prime or Wheel Jack done more accurately than the other?

It is a cool idea, but I am not sure how to do it in a top 5 or 10 list. Like maybe not counting MP. Like which Hot Rod or Soundwave is the best, but then sometimes the size or technology or preference come in too much.

TK415 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

MagicDeath wrote:I'm not sure if this is still going, but seeing as the plans are empty:
Top fiction-accurate toys
(Like Generations Springer and Masterpiece Cheetor)

The plans are only empty because I ran out of predone ones and I have to hustle and complete more. By complete I mean write the paragraphs and get the pics. I want to at least get to number 100 with these lists.

Fiction accurate is cool but I keep running into the problem of it being dominated by one or two lines like Animated and Masterpiece.

That is what I was thinking too, but I wanted to see what WJ would say. Also, let's say WJ does make that list, wouldn't MP all pretty much be a tie. Was Prime or Wheel Jack done more accurately than the other?

It is a cool idea, but I am not sure how to do it in a top 5 or 10 list. Like maybe not counting MP. Like which Hot Rod or Soundwave is the best, but then sometimes the size or technology or preference come in too much.

Thanks for weighing in. I totally get people's inclination to not include MP in discussion due to how it may not be fair. But I have always disagreed because I look at toys equally on a value basis. If an MP is really that good and worthwhile, I want to recomend it to people. At the same time, if I can compare aother toy to an MP, then that must mean the toy is pretty good. For instance, I am doing a list of top 5 Ravage toys (the toys in the list have been chosen but I havent written it yet and need to take a few pics to add to it) and MP Ravage is not number 1. And thats fun, it means that there is something else out there that does a better job than an MP. If I exclude MPs then I cant have this fun moment.
And lastly, the fact that some put MPs on pedestals gives me an opportunity to bring them down a bt when they veer off course or do something I am not fond of. So the dissapointment over a toy (which is entirely subjective, but then again so are these lists) is higher and I am better able to express what I feel in a paragraph, which makes for a more fun read, at least I hope.

Don't know if any of this made sense but I feel MPs are part of this brand and I will praise them as i praise other toys and bash them as I bash others if I feel they deserve it

PS: Oooouuu, I found a good way around MPs for those curious of such a likeness theme for a list, we could look at most show accurate cartoon toylines. The point would be that I would look at toys made for the show and how they compare to the character in the show. Because that would mean that you get the technological advancements paralleled with the time the show came out. And by looking at the toyline as a whole you dont run the risk of ties.

The list would be entirely TFA then Maybe a token appearance by TFP First Edition Optimus

william-james88 wrote:

TK415 wrote:

william-james88 wrote:

MagicDeath wrote:I'm not sure if this is still going, but seeing as the plans are empty:
Top fiction-accurate toys
(Like Generations Springer and Masterpiece Cheetor)

The plans are only empty because I ran out of predone ones and I have to hustle and complete more. By complete I mean write the paragraphs and get the pics. I want to at least get to number 100 with these lists.

Fiction accurate is cool but I keep running into the problem of it being dominated by one or two lines like Animated and Masterpiece.

That is what I was thinking too, but I wanted to see what WJ would say. Also, let's say WJ does make that list, wouldn't MP all pretty much be a tie. Was Prime or Wheel Jack done more accurately than the other?

It is a cool idea, but I am not sure how to do it in a top 5 or 10 list. Like maybe not counting MP. Like which Hot Rod or Soundwave is the best, but then sometimes the size or technology or preference come in too much.

Thanks for weighing in. I totally get people's inclination to not include MP in discussion due to how it may not be fair. But I have always disagreed because I look at toys equally on a value basis. If an MP is really that good and worthwhile, I want to recomend it to people. At the same time, if I can compare aother toy to an MP, then that must mean the toy is pretty good. For instance, I am doing a list of top 5 Ravage toys (the toys in the list have been chosen but I havent written it yet and need to take a few pics to add to it) and MP Ravage is not number 1. And thats fun, it means that there is something else out there that does a better job than an MP. If I exclude MPs then I cant have this fun moment.
And lastly, the fact that some put MPs on pedestals gives me an opportunity to bring them down a bt when they veer off course or do something I am not fond of. So the dissapointment over a toy (which is entirely subjective, but then again so are these lists) is higher and I am better able to express what I feel in a paragraph, which makes for a more fun read, at least I hope.

Don't know if any of this made sense but I feel MPs are part of this brand and I will praise them as i praise other toys and bash them as I bash others if I feel they deserve it

PS: Oooouuu, I found a good way around MPs for those curious of such a likeness theme for a list, we could look at most show accurate cartoon toylines. The point would be that I would look at toys made for the show and how they compare to the character in the show. Because that would mean that you get the technological advancements paralleled with the time the show came out. And by looking at the toyline as a whole you dont run the risk of ties.

WJ! That is a brilliant idea!!!!!! MP and Animated 1 and 2 (or 2 and 1 I am sure some would argue), and then other lines, that would allow for some great exploration.

Well reasoned and good points why not to exclude MP. Makes a lot of sense. Along the same lines, you could meld those two ideas, see my example list below, not cheating, but sort of like a loop hole, to not exclude other great toys, and to provide discussion and recomendations. "1. MP Optimus Prime and almost all other MP toys."

Top 10 fiction accurate toys. Definitely needs to be top 10!

1. MP Optimus Prime and almost all other MP toys.
2. Animated _________ and almost all other Animated toys.
3. Generations Rhinox.
4. Reveal the Shield Jazz.
5. TFP First Edition Optimus (Good one Kurona)
etc.

Get on it WJ, ! I can't wait.

TK415 wrote:WJ! That is a brilliant idea!!!!!! MP and Animated 1 and 2 (or 2 and 1 I am sure some would argue), and then other lines, that would allow for some great exploration.

Well reasoned and good points why not to exclude MP. Makes a lot of sense. Along the same lines, you could meld those two ideas, see my example list below, not cheating, but sort of like a loop hole, to not exclude other great toys, and to provide discussion and recomendations. "1. MP Optimus Prime and almost all other MP toys."

Top 10 fiction accurate toys. Definitely needs to be top 10!

1. MP Optimus Prime and almost all other MP toys.
2. Animated _________ and almost all other Animated toys.
3. Generations Rhinox.
4. Reveal the Shield Jazz.
5. TFP First Edition Optimus (Good one Kurona)
etc.

Get on it WJ, ! I can't wait.

Thanks for the encouragement! I see the loophole and while I get it, I dont know if others will. Fans can be a fickle bunch (but I love em all just the same). Regardless of what I do, keep this list of yours and bring it up in the discussion so that we could evolve it into something character specific or characters within a line. And while I said I wouldnt exclude MP toys from lists, I dont think I would include MP as a line in this list since it isnt a line based on a specific cartoon or made for the cartoon unlike Cybertron for instance. It would be in the honourable mentions celebrating it as a whole. Or not. lets see...


Top 5 Most Screen Accurate Media Accompanyied Transformers Toy Lines


5. Transformers Revenge of the Fallen + HFTD
4. Transformers Prime
3. Transformers Beast Wars Transmetal
2. Transformers Animated
1. Transformers Cybertron (or whould I just write Unicron trilogy?)


Top 5 Most Screen Accurate Transformers Toy Lines

5. Transformers Prime
4. Transformers Beast Wars Transmetals
3. Transformers Masterpiece
2. Transformers Animated
1. Transformers Cybertron (or whould I just write Unicron trilogy?)




I feel like also assind RID 2001 but while some were accurate, I look at ruination and go, maybe not. Could be the honourable mention.

On the other end of the scale, here's an idea for a list- Top 5/10 awesome but totally inaccurate Transformers toys. Ranging from non-media-based redecos that look amazing (Cyberfire Bumblebee, the Roadbuster themed Animated Ultra Magnus, etc) to toys that look absolutely nothing like the media they're based on but are such great toys that they stand on their own as awesome figures (some of the better 2007 Movie figures, the better Beast Machines figures, etc). Just a thought anyway.

william-james88 wrote:

TK415 wrote:WJ! That is a brilliant idea!!!!!! MP and Animated 1 and 2 (or 2 and 1 I am sure some would argue), and then other lines, that would allow for some great exploration.

Well reasoned and good points why not to exclude MP. Makes a lot of sense. Along the same lines, you could meld those two ideas, see my example list below, not cheating, but sort of like a loop hole, to not exclude other great toys, and to provide discussion and recomendations. "1. MP Optimus Prime and almost all other MP toys."

Top 10 fiction accurate toys. Definitely needs to be top 10!

1. MP Optimus Prime and almost all other MP toys.
2. Animated _________ and almost all other Animated toys.
3. Generations Rhinox.
4. Reveal the Shield Jazz.
5. TFP First Edition Optimus (Good one Kurona)
etc.

Get on it WJ, ! I can't wait.

Thanks for the encouragement! I see the loophole and while I get it, I dont know if others will. Fans can be a fickle bunch (but I love em all just the same). Regardless of what I do, keep this list of yours and bring it up in the discussion so that we could evolve it into something character specific or characters within a line. And while I said I wouldnt exclude MP toys from lists, I dont think I would include MP as a line in this list since it isnt a line based on a specific cartoon or made for the cartoon unlike Cybertron for instance. It would be in the honourable mentions celebrating it as a whole. Or not. lets see...


Top 5 Most Screen Accurate Media Accompanyied Transformers Toy Lines


5. Transformers Revenge of the Fallen + HFTD
4. Transformers Prime
3. Transformers Beast Wars Transmetal
2. Transformers Animated
1. Transformers Cybertron (or whould I just write Unicron trilogy?)


Top 5 Most Screen Accurate Transformers Toy Lines

5. Transformers Prime
4. Transformers Beast Wars Transmetals
3. Transformers Masterpiece
2. Transformers Animated
1. Transformers Cybertron (or whould I just write Unicron trilogy?)




I feel like also assind RID 2001 but while some were accurate, I look at ruination and go, maybe not. Could be the honourable mention.

Nice distinctions, cool ideas, and good lists. I like that you just knocked those out in like two minutes. Man, WJ, you are one impressive Transformer scholar! Well done, well done! You know Transformers so well and you can really categorize them and explain them so well.

Transformers Cybertron and Energon are much more toy-accurate than Armada. Armada was naturally very toy-accurate and if you got an Armada toy just to get something that looked like what you saw on the show... well, unless you got Sideswipe, you wouldn't be terribly disappointed.

But Energon and Cybertron take it to whole new levels. The CGI models might as friggin' well just be the toys -- it gets to the extent that the models have the toy's buttons on them. The button you press on Cybertron Evac's toy to make his rotors turn? That's on his CGI model. Why is it there? What possible actual function would it serve to Evac as a character or soldier or disguise? Who the heck knows, but he has it.

Cybertron's toys are by far the most screen-accurate toys there have ever been because of how stupidly accurate to the toys Cybertron's animators were. Pretty much the only difference is in articulation for character expression (individual fingers moving, extra waist movement, that sort of thing).

Actually, know what? Disregard everything I just said. This shot of Hot Shot's underside in Cybertron episode 16 that has been burned into my mind should be all the proof you need that the sheer lengths Cybertron goes to to be toy-accurate is just completely bonkers.

TK415 wrote:Nice distinctions, cool ideas, and good lists. I like that you just knocked those out in like two minutes. Man, WJ, you are one impressive Transformer scholar! Well done, well done! You know Transformers so well and you can really categorize them and explain them so well.

That is most kind of you. I still would very much like your input on which way to go. Do we leave it to just lines that accompany media or do we include lines that come after the facts, like MP?

Black Hat wrote:On the other end of the scale, here's an idea for a list- Top 5/10 awesome but totally inaccurate Transformers toys. Ranging from non-media-based redecos that look amazing (Cyberfire Bumblebee, the Roadbuster themed Animated Ultra Magnus, etc) to toys that look absolutely nothing like the media they're based on but are such great toys that they stand on their own as awesome figures (some of the better 2007 Movie figures, the better Beast Machines figures, etc). Just a thought anyway.

Excellent idea. But that means I will end up using Beast machines tankor again for the 100th time Razorclaw/Tigerhawk comes to mind too. That would also finally be the place to put that first movie Leader Optimus. Thats 3 down, who else would I include

I just thought of another list while thinking of Beast Wars. Top 5 Off Screen Beast Wars Toys.. yess. Ooouu, top 5 off screen movie toys (ah dammit, I already did that one).

Kurona wrote:Transformers Cybertron and Energon are much more toy-accurate than Armada. Armada was naturally very toy-accurate and if you got an Armada toy just to get something that looked like what you saw on the show... well, unless you got Sideswipe, you wouldn't be terribly disappointed.

But Energon and Cybertron take it to whole new levels. The CGI models might as friggin' well just be the toys -- it gets to the extent that the models have the toy's buttons on them. The button you press on Cybertron Evac's toy to make his rotors turn? That's on his CGI model. Why is it there? What possible actual function would it serve to Evac as a character or soldier or disguise? Who the heck knows, but he has it.

Cybertron's toys are by far the most screen-accurate toys there have ever been because of how stupidly accurate to the toys Cybertron's animators were. Pretty much the only difference is in articulation for character expression (individual fingers moving, extra waist movement, that sort of thing).

Thanks for writing the entry to number 1. I will polish it up, maybe, but yeah Energon/Cybertron as number 1 !

william-james88 wrote:

TK415 wrote:Nice distinctions, cool ideas, and good lists. I like that you just knocked those out in like two minutes. Man, WJ, you are one impressive Transformer scholar! Well done, well done! You know Transformers so well and you can really categorize them and explain them so well.

That is most kind of you. I still would very much like your input on which way to go. Do we leave it to just lines that accompany media or do we include lines that come after the facts, like MP?

Black Hat wrote:On the other end of the scale, here's an idea for a list- Top 5/10 awesome but totally inaccurate Transformers toys. Ranging from non-media-based redecos that look amazing (Cyberfire Bumblebee, the Roadbuster themed Animated Ultra Magnus, etc) to toys that look absolutely nothing like the media they're based on but are such great toys that they stand on their own as awesome figures (some of the better 2007 Movie figures, the better Beast Machines figures, etc). Just a thought anyway.

Excellent idea. But that means I will end up using Beast machines tankor again for the 100th time Razorclaw/Tigerhawk comes to mind too. That would also finally be the place to put that first movie Leader Optimus. Thats 3 down, who else would I include

I just thought of another list while thinking of Beast Wars. Top 5 Off Screen Beast Wars Toys.. yess. Ooouu, top 5 off screen movie toys (ah dammit, I already did that one).

Kurona wrote:Transformers Cybertron and Energon are much more toy-accurate than Armada. Armada was naturally very toy-accurate and if you got an Armada toy just to get something that looked like what you saw on the show... well, unless you got Sideswipe, you wouldn't be terribly disappointed.

But Energon and Cybertron take it to whole new levels. The CGI models might as friggin' well just be the toys -- it gets to the extent that the models have the toy's buttons on them. The button you press on Cybertron Evac's toy to make his rotors turn? That's on his CGI model. Why is it there? What possible actual function would it serve to Evac as a character or soldier or disguise? Who the heck knows, but he has it.

Cybertron's toys are by far the most screen-accurate toys there have ever been because of how stupidly accurate to the toys Cybertron's animators were. Pretty much the only difference is in articulation for character expression (individual fingers moving, extra waist movement, that sort of thing).

Thanks for writing the entry to number 1. I will polish it up, maybe, but yeah Energon/Cybertron as number 1 !

At first I thought: MP is tied directly to G1. But then I thought how they are making MP toys to other media. I see now how MP makes toys from any toy line, while other lines come out in conjunction with their respective media.

If you work on it, I would include MP. Otherwise I would think that it would feel frustrating, it would be like, yeah but you are ignoring the MP. That would also exclude a lot of Generations toys.

1. Is the goal to value how accurate each toy/media line was.
Or
2. Is the goal to identify some of the best portrayals regardless of time released.

Like Classics or Gen (I can’t remember exactly what it was called) deluxe Cyclonus may still be the best Cyclonus portrayal, and he wasn’t in conjunction with media at the time. I wouldn’t want to leave him out. (And like WJ said, Gen reinvented TF so much.)

Right now I like the #2, but if you were working on the list, and it made more sense to go with #1 that would be fine as well.

double post

We are all working on the list right now together as we speak Nothing is set in stone. But Generations/Classics wouldnt work in this list since the amount of toys which purpusefully are not show accurate outweigh the ones that are, so if we are talking about a line as a whole, it wouldnt make as much sense to include it over another line.