MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

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MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Wed Jan 13, 2016 9:19 pm

The topic of this thread is about Movies : namely What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Why did I start this topic... Well these are the Movies I had in mind.

Jurassic World
Terminator Genisys
The Force Awakens
(New) Ghostbusters
Batman V Superman
The Alien/s Franchise & Prometheus
Tron
Even Avatar (the one with Blue people in it).
Perhaps even Creed.

Also there is talk of remakes like :
Top Gun
The Last Starfighter
Or a whole lot of Horror Movie remakes

And then there is Reboots or Re-imaginings
Like Stargate
Godzilla
Fantastic Four

Hopefully the reader will get the meanings behind my question but I'll leave it as a simple question..

WHAT DO YOU WANT...

And I'll elaborate a bit later if I need to add more explanation of why I'm asking this..

Please share your thoughts.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel ?

Postby BeastProwl » Wed Jan 13, 2016 10:08 pm

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While I think some of those examples are bad (fantastic four) I do feel transformers is on desperate need of some good writing, directing, and a different look.
Give the property to someone who cares. Ide like to see effort, instead of the same old thing, over and over. I've defended the films in the past, and stand by the first one, (with 2 as my guilty pleasure) 3 and 4 just killed it for me. And while I like them as popcorn flicks, I can't actually get into any of them. They try so hard to have a lore and plot too. It's a shame they fall flat.
Ide like to see something at least on Marvel's level of care. Even Marvel's bad films have been good, sans the ones outside the cinematic universe not labeled x-men.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Thu Jan 14, 2016 9:32 am

I'll say why I picked those ones after "hopefully" a few more posts - I don't want to influence people - I want to canvas people on the idea of their "expectations" for 'the old made new' first.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Jan 17, 2016 6:50 pm

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RAR wrote:The topic of this thread is about Movies : namely What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?


um...friend, the title and question here doesnt make sense.

a remake is a reboot and vice versa.
they are the same thing, Re-imaginings is as well
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Sun Jan 17, 2016 11:25 pm

Those terms apply differently especially in franchises.

Re-imagining is for example often but not exclusively applied to something that changes significant parts, you could say that New Battlestar Galactica was this, but a better example would be to take a premise of a set of characters and then more them to another location.

Example of that might be in the comic world where Super-heroes change race or era or even gender. It is possible to be a re-imagining without being a remake though. (i.e. Thor as a girl) or Howard the Duck having a slight design change - that is a re-imagining of the character but it's still in continuity with the previous comics.

Sometimes something is called a Sequel but isn't even the same continuity (i.e. James Bond).

A example of a reboot can be something as simple as starting the story over in a newer time period.

Heck know what classification you'd give to the Stargate movie that is getting made.

Anyway yes you can usually get away with using the terms interchangeably but that does not mean they infer the exact same meaning or context to them. Besides when Movie get sequel decades later often so much changes they may as well be a reboot.

For example Tron Legacy of The Force Awakens. Some movies are not even that easy to put into a slot (yet) such as the new Ghostbusters Movie - I don't think anyone can say what that is until they see it.

Also prometheus. - That one is especially tricky as "Technically" All the Alien Movies were one story even the AVP ones - but Prometheus being a partial reset (as Superman returns is too) is a whole other area to add another layer of viewer confusion.

------

I will come back to this thread when I have time to get into what I want to say more fully - but I want to give it a chance for t least a few answers before I do that so if anyone reading this can say 'what they want' please contribute.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Mon Jan 18, 2016 10:05 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
RAR wrote:Those terms apply differently especially in franchises.
lets see if i can agree with you on that at the end of this post

Re-imagining is for example often but not exclusively applied to something that changes significant parts, you could say that New Battlestar Galactica was this, but a better example would be to take a premise of a set of characters and then more them to another location.


re-imagining,re-make,re-boot.............all 3 apply to the New Battlestar Galactica from a few years ago

Example of that might be in the comic world where Super-heroes change race or era or even gender.


same as above

It is possible to be a re-imagining without being a remake though. (i.e. Thor as a girl) or Howard the Duck having a slight design change - that is a re-imagining of the character but it's still in continuity with the previous comics.


"thor as a girl" was a different ,already known, character within the same continuity gaining the powers of thor...different character, not sure how you can call that a re-imaging

changing design like changing a costume.
i wouldnt call that re-imaging, re-freshing maybe.

Sometimes something is called a Sequel but isn't even the same continuity (i.e. James Bond).


not a Bond fan so i cant say much.
but it was my understanding that any that stared the same "James"; were in continuity with each other.

A example of a reboot can be something as simple as starting the story over in a newer time period.

Heck know what classification you'd give to the Stargate movie that is getting made.


i havent followed the news about the new sg film, so i dont know how it relates to the old one or the tv shows.

Anyway yes you can usually get away with using the terms interchangeably but that does not mean they infer the exact same meaning or context to them.


well so far you havent demonstrated that.

Besides when Movie get sequel decades later often so much changes they may as well be a reboot.


i dont disagree with that
but we arent the judge of that.

look at superman returns

For example Tron Legacy of The Force Awakens. Some movies are not even that easy to put into a slot (yet) such as the new Ghostbusters Movie - I don't think anyone can say what that is until they see it.


agreed

Also prometheus. - That one is especially tricky as "Technically" All the Alien Movies were one story even the AVP ones - but Prometheus being a partial reset (as Superman returns is too) is a whole other area to add another layer of viewer confusion.

i saw a u.k. tv show interview with the makers of prometheus., in it they claim they intended the film more as a reboot.

superman returns was intended to be a squeal, of the Donner cut of SM2
I will come back to this thread when I have time to get into what I want to say more fully - but I want to give it a chance for t least a few answers before I do that so if anyone reading this can say 'what they want' please contribute.
please do

so fr i still see nothing that breaks these terms from one an other.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Sun Feb 07, 2016 2:17 pm

The Stargate Movie I think is ether a sequel to the original or a straight remake of it.
It regardless has nothing to do with the TV shows.

If Independence Day's sequel flops I doubt it will ever get made anyway.

Example of a Remake : Psycho (same movie remade in a later time setting almost shot for shot)

Example of a reboot : Well That one is trickier as there are factors to consider like the changing or rights and companies an such but Fantastic Four springs to mind.

I think remake implies a closer relationship in some sense or another to the original than a reboot does so perhaps True Grit is a remake rather than a reboot - also Reboot implies a franchise rather than a one off.

If someone remade the classic religious epic 'The Robe' I'd say it was a remake and not a reboot as no sequel would be implied as possible or likely.

where as if someone remade Alien - I would be tempted to use the term reboot.


Soft-reboot is often used for Star Trek 2009 as it's technically a sequel and reboot at the same time.

As for re-imagining - - I would suggest the TV Mini-series version of the shinning or the missing in action cut of the Carrie "remake" as they both were designed to be based on the original novels and not the Movies originally made from the Novel.

Lets use this as an example.

The book exists "We'll remember for you wholesale" that becomes the Movie "Total Recall" - then Total Recall is remade but moved to a new location - so is that a remake - possibly - but it's also a re-imagining - and also arguably another "adaptation too" .

Or lets use the example of iRobot - it on the surface seems mostly unrelated to the book of the same name - but it's actually closer than most people seem to realise it is to the overall themes of the material - so functionally it's a prequel and in a crazy sort of way almost fits with the novels/stories as well as some other stories might.

You couldn't class it as a sequel though as it is not following anything but preceding it; if someone ever makes another Asimov related Movie though I expect irobot will be argued about a lot.

There is also the idea of Movies that appear to have nothing to do with each other but may take place in the same Universe for example : Soldier, Alien and Blade Runner could all be in the same Universe.

If someone decides to show a specific example of this in a future example (like a world, space station or other location) then the way those movies would be classified officially would be a bit well complicated for sure.

Not that I think The Last Starfighter has to take place in the same Universe as Back to the Future Part II as Centauri's car is parked in Hill valley when so is the cop cars from Blade Runner.

Anymore than I think Iron Maiden's mascot Eddie has met Doctor Who as there is a Tardis on some covers... [and the same cop car again] (fun thought though that is).

I'll revisit this thread when I have time to think through my points I wanted to make a bit better. (yes this thread did have a point originally).
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sun Feb 07, 2016 4:38 pm

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RAR wrote:also Reboot implies a franchise rather than a one off.


ok ill give you that

Soft-reboot is often used for Star Trek 2009 as it's technically a sequel and reboot at the same time.


i would prefer to say trek09 was a sequel that "functioned" like reboot while not official fitting the term
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Tue Feb 16, 2016 8:32 am

Some consider Star Trek 2009 a reboot of a sort even before the time alteration as the technology and Uniforms on display are no consistent with the prior material.. though I suppose if you consider it a sequel to 'Enterprise' and not Star Trek : The Original Series then that makes a lot more sense.

-----

Anyway speaking of sequels...

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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Tue Feb 16, 2016 9:48 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
RAR wrote:Some consider Star Trek 2009 a reboot of a sort even before the time alteration as the technology and Uniforms on display are no consistent with the prior material..


yes ive seen many make that argument................and fail every time

heres the bottomline, all we saw of anything before the time alteration was the Kelvin and its crew.And no one can say that the tech and uniform of the Kelvin ship were "not consistent with the prior material"...

do you know why?

because no CANON MATERIAL exists that covers the era of the Kelvin and its crew................so what we were shown in at the start of Star Trek 2009 is not inconsistent with prior material and can not be labeled a reboot for those reasons

though I suppose if you consider it a sequel to 'Enterprise' and not Star Trek : The Original Series then that makes a lot more sense.


please please please try to explain how that makes MORE SENSE?

-----

Anyway speaking of sequels...





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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:10 am

sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
please please please try to explain how that makes MORE SENSE?



There is the long explanation and the short one - if you want me to write 1000 words on it I can...

But in short.

Enterprise when the show started was described by the production staff as an alternative "Daughter Universe" created by the Events in Star Trek : First Contact ( If First Contact is a predestination Paradox is a whole other argument though and depends on the points you wish to focus on if it is or not I think it isn't and I can elaborate if I have too).

Star Trek 2009 thus isn't a sequel to Star Trek The Original series it is a sequel to Enterprise even before Nero pops up this is the case.

The postulation is that Earth was not attacked during Archers time in the original timeline as that happened as a result of temporal interference.

So even if you like to try to crowbar Enterprise into the TOS timeline the varied and extensive temporal alterations made between Archer and Janeways time mean that when one loops back around to the beginning - it's a different beginning.

The only question is where the branching points are... I'd say they are a few years after World War II not long after that something resembling "Our Universe" splits from the Star Trek Universe (in terms of the context of Star Trek itself).

Or to put it in another way The past that Kirk had isn't the same one Janeway had and that is even before the Temporal Cold War got a lot hotter.

However since there are issues "wrong" with the last two Star Trek Movies that are a lot worse than The Kelvin - one tends to decide to over look them like one does the various "errors" in the preceding Star Trek Movies as another error derived from the likelyhood that the production just couldn't be bothered to keep their facts straight in relation to previously established material.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:40 am

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
RAR wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
please please please try to explain how that makes MORE SENSE?



There is the long explanation and the short one - if you want me to write 1000 words on it I can...

But in short.

Enterprise when the show started was described by the production staff as an alternative "Daughter Universe" created by the Events in Star Trek : First Contact


im going ask you evidence of that claim........but my guess is you wont find any and that you are confusing fan statements with official ones.

i followed every step of the production of that show, and not once durring its creative beginnings did i ever see any statements from anyone working on the show that even hinted the show was not a clear and cut prequil

not a "daughter universe"

fans made those arguments when certin things looked odd, but no one on the show ever said such as far as i know.

im going to have to ( If First Contact is a predestination Paradox is a whole other argument though and depends on the points you wish to focus on if it is or not I think it isn't and I can elaborate if I have too).

Star Trek 2009 thus isn't a sequel to Star Trek The Original series it is a sequel to Enterprise even before Nero pops up this is the case.

The postulation is that Earth was not attacked during Archers time in the original timeline as that happened as a result of temporal interference.

So even if you like to try to crowbar Enterprise into the TOS timeline the varied and extensive temporal alterations made between Archer and Janeways time mean that when one loops back around to the beginning - it's a different beginning.

The only question is where the branching points are... I'd say they are a few years after World War II not long after that something resembling "Our Universe" splits from the Star Trek Universe (in terms of the context of Star Trek itself).

Or to put it in another way The past that Kirk had isn't the same one Janeway had and that is even before the Temporal Cold War got a lot hotter.


unless those events were part of Kirks pre-history.
and if so everything happened as it should have

However since there are issues "wrong" with the last two Star Trek Movies that are a lot worse than The Kelvin - one tends to decide to over look them like one does the various "errors" in the preceding Star Trek Movies as another error derived from the likelyhood that the production just couldn't be bothered to keep their facts straight in relation to previously established material.
thats true

but if you want, please can you post what you feel was "wrong
id love to see your thinking on that issue
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:57 am

Technical inconsistencies.
Taking such liberties with the laws of physics so that even Voyager would blush.
There is a brewery in the engine room
There is an core in the middle of the ship's saucer like some sort of Mall.
Sets doors and such moving in relationship to each other
Kirk's unexplained illness
Why does the Vengeance have such a small cargo door ?
They blew up Vulcan and yet no one seems to especially care in the sequel.
Why are the Snr. Captains so Humancentric - but the crews are more diverse than ever before ?

You get the idea you can go on like that for ages....

Might I recommend a video like this :



& This :



Now I don't actually mind the JJ Price has multiple warp cores ? and the Mall in the Saucer of the apparent lack of space for a Warp core and a brewery in the secondary hull anyway as it's also shown as being full of shuttles.

It's all sort of amusingly bonkers really. I don't tend to take it especially seriously - much as I don't Voyager either.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:47 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
RAR wrote:Technical inconsistencies.
Taking such liberties with the laws of physics so that even Voyager would blush.
There is a brewery in the engine room
There is an core in the middle of the ship's saucer like some sort of Mall.
Sets doors and such moving in relationship to each other
Kirk's unexplained illness
Why does the Vengeance have such a small cargo door ?
They blew up Vulcan and yet no one seems to especially care in the sequel.
Why are the Snr. Captains so Humancentric - but the crews are more diverse than ever before ?

to vague a statement every trek series has had Technical inconsistencies....you need to be a bit more specific

again, too vague a statement,each series is guilty of that.

no, the engine room was filmed at a brewery

i saw nothing that looked like a mall, can you refresh my memory

i dont understand your issue with Sets doors and such moving in relationship to each other

what unexplained silkiness of Kirks are you talking about?
the radiation that killed him?

i didnt think that the cargo door was that small, or the only such door.
anyway you can call it a bad design, not a new thing

course they cared, vulcans destruction, and making sure it doesnt happen to earth or other federation worlds was the its the key motivation admiral marcus had for doing everything he did.

thats a good question

Why are the Snr. Captains so Humancentric - but the crews are more diverse than ever before ?

You get the idea you can go on like that for ages...


yeah i do, only 1 of your complaints had anything of substance to it, the rest was all about personal taste.

its like a ham and cheese sandwich with no ham

now im not saing i liked all those things, but my personal opinion doesnt make thoses things wrong.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Thu Feb 18, 2016 9:58 am

You asked me what my issue was - I told you some examples - I don't think I ever implied that any criticisms are anything other than personal taste - however in some cases that "Personal taste" is shared by multiple individuals - just as was the case with how Black Widow was handled in Age of Ultron or how Powerful Rey is in Force Awakens... those things really bug some people - others may not even notice. it does not mean that some don't see those issues as problems.

It's like I could say "The Music in Force Awakens isn't as good as it is in the other 6 'Main' Movies". Now you can say that is down to personal taste sure - but there are some people who have actually analysed the sound quality and can make a scientific argument that the sound isn't as good both the Music and the Mix (same is true of Age of Ultron's sound in that is messy as hell) or to use Force Awakens again - there is some really weird and lazy sound effects in that Movie - like at one point you can hear the foli artist swishing a plastic pipe as a lightsaber woosh - it's clearly an unaltered plastic pipe noise. or when people run around inside the ships there is no foot steps... the Footstep point isn't a "subjective" one.

Besides things like missing doors or corridors on the Enterprise are not a huge deal almost no one is going to notice that any more than they do that one earlier Enterprises the Turbot lift is in the wrong place in comparison to the external view.

Besides if you want more examples - go watch those videos I linked to they are going to make the points quicker in video form than I can type them or you can read them. (just put the vids on 1.5 speed).

I may get into Technical inconsistencies at a later date and perhaps that is better suited to the Star Trek Thread - but the short version is that the arguments are similar to the ones made against Enterprise as a show.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 5:23 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
RAR wrote:You asked me what my issue was - I told you some examples - I don't think I ever implied that any criticisms are anything other than personal taste -


you sort of did....by saying it was things they "got wrong" and linking nit to a theory of separate universes..
that 1 or many dont like it doesnt make it "wrong" or a different universe.

. however in some cases that "Personal taste" is shared by multiple individuals - just as was the case with how Black Widow was handled in Age of Ultron or how Powerful Rey is in Force Awakens... those things really bug some people - others may not even notice. it does not mean that some don't see those issues as problems.

[/quote]

true enough

Besides if you want more examples - go watch those videos I linked to they are going to make the points quicker in video form than I can type them or you can read them. (just put the vids on 1.5 speed).


thanks, i did watch them and ive seen them before, the guy made a few mistakes of his own, and most of his complaints are all the result of bad writing/movie making

I may get into Technical inconsistencies at a later date and perhaps that is better suited to the Star Trek Thread - but the short version is that the arguments are similar to the ones made against Enterprise as a show.


im game when ever you like

but many of those arguments made against Enterprise as a show didnt stand up to debate
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Thu Feb 18, 2016 7:09 pm

The premise is not unlike Terminator and how Judgement day keeps getting pushed forward and Skynet keeps getting more powerful.

Some people are a bit thick and think a single Skynet sent dozens of T-800 Model 101 Terminators - when actually it's a whole bunch of different skynets.

That is one of the things they actually got right in Terminator Genisys as it's essentially a very slightly tweaked version of the primary timeline (all be with other actors)

As I said before Into Darkeness & Star Trek 2009 have to take place in a Universe that has a number of perameters - HOWEVER certain things make it impossible for it to be the same Universe....as the Prime timeline you have to get crazy specific though to say why.

But in essence Spock Prime and Nero travelled both back in time & into a parallel dimension.

How do I know that - simple if they'd created a Daughter Universe (which is the common interpretation) then any changes would have to be ones that ONLY take place after Nero's arrival up to that point the time line has to be mostly consistent with a timeline that had Kahn in it.

The problem there is the history of Kahn varies if you could hypothetically ask Kirk Prime what the history of the Eugenics war was - you'd get a totally different answer from what Janeway would say.

Likewise things like the Horizon Class / or Deadalus don't fit especially well with Enterprise's timeline.

The explanation of arguments for why I am contesting that the Star Trek 2009 Universe is a daughter Universe before Nero shows up are a bit complex and they sort of rely on some assumptions (some of which may be disprovable).

The place the Klingons chase Kirk around is actually a province that was entirely agricultural in the 24th Century and had always been so (mentioned in DS9) so that they had turned it into an industrial zone is a big red flag that is a change..

You can argue that nero showing up is such a big even it changes Klingon History too - but it does seem a tiny bit unlikely that it's arrival would change Klingon armour styles, Space craft designs and industrial development - (not impossible no) but at least it's reasonable to say it's a stretch.

Though the joke is that just as 2009 happily ignores all the prior Star Trek TV shows even before Nero arrives - Star Trek Beyond is said to ignore portions of Into Darkness too.

None of this is a big problem for me - I'm quite happy to stand back and have a smile on my face seeing people trying to crow bar the Kelvin into a single timeline. Heck the new USS Franklin might even help that a bit too.

But the Kelvin herself isn't a great fit in that time the only reason some people can buy it is it is a time before Human met the Klingons so they might have decided to built something not unlike the Galaxy Class concept of long voyages with families on board.

But other people object to how huge it is, the general design cues, even it's weapons all seem a less than ideal fit and any sort of fit at all really only works in anyway as some sort of mid point between the NX & 2009 Enterprise.

The real fun and games start though if you subscribe to the idea that the Enterprise Kirk sees being built isn't the only one - and the Constitution class one also existed in that Universe prior to the 2009 version - but technology wise I think that would cause some serious problems.

The 'Connie' has No Pulse Phasers, no Point defense cannons and a totally different style of decoration and hull material where as the Kelvin is actually consistent in scale and look, the shuttle craft are closer 2009 than they are are TOS and weapons types match up with the 2009 Enterprise.

And yet a shoe Horned in TOS style constitution made prior to the other ship might even be canon. (you can have some real fun with that there though coming up with explanation for why that is).. like was she built from detailed scans taken of the USS Defiant as it phased into their Universe too.

I'm much less bothered by any daft bits in Star Trek Movies than I am in say some things about Age of Ultron or Episode VII - as Star Trek by it's very nature always has a ready excuse.
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Feb 18, 2016 10:03 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
RAR wrote:The premise is not unlike Terminator and how Judgement day keeps getting pushed forward and Skynet keeps getting more powerful.

Some people are a bit thick and think a single Skynet sent dozens of T-800 Model 101 Terminators - when actually it's a whole bunch of different skynets.

That is one of the things they actually got right in Terminator Genisys as it's essentially a very slightly tweaked version of the primary timeline (all be with other actors)

As I said before Into Darkeness & Star Trek 2009 have to take place in a Universe that has a number of perameters - HOWEVER certain things make it impossible for it to be the same Universe....as the Prime timeline you have to get crazy specific though to say why.

But in essence Spock Prime and Nero travelled both back in time & into a parallel dimension.

How do I know that - simple if they'd created a Daughter Universe (which is the common interpretation) then any changes would have to be ones that ONLY take place after Nero's arrival up to that point the time line has to be mostly consistent with a timeline that had Kahn in it.

The problem there is the history of Kahn varies if you could hypothetically ask Kirk Prime what the history of the Eugenics war was - you'd get a totally different answer from what Janeway would say.


please tell me how the "history of Kahn varies" and how Janeway would differ from kirk with an explanation?

and keep in mind i want canon answers, not info you gathered from novels,comics,or writer interviews

Likewise things like the Horizon Class / or Deadalus don't fit especially well with Enterprise's timeline.


thats your personal opinion.
i feel they fit fine

The explanation of arguments for why I am contesting that the Star Trek 2009 Universe is a daughter Universe before Nero shows up are a bit complex and they sort of rely on some assumptions (some of which may be disprovable).

The place the Klingons chase Kirk around is actually a province that was entirely agricultural in the 24th Century and had always been so (mentioned in DS9) so that they had turned it into an industrial zone is a big red flag that is a change..


a change...big red flag.........really?

Nope
The Ketha Province , "Ket'ha lowlands" on the Klingon homeworld was an area considered a wasteland by the Klingons, it did how ever contain some farmlands.It was also home to Martok and his family for over as long as he knew.

the klingons live by a strict caste system, if the province was entirely agricultural in nature, then Martoks family would have been part of a tradesmen and or farmers caste.

But thats not the case,Martoks family had been reputable soldiers and had loyally served the empire for 15 generations.

so the indication is that the "Ket'ha lowlands" was more of a ghetto where lower caste families gathered/lived.

You can argue that nero showing up is such a big even it changes Klingon History too - but it does seem a tiny bit unlikely that it's arrival would change Klingon armour styles, Space craft designs and industrial development - (not impossible no) but at least it's reasonable to say it's a stretch.


considering that the klingons held Nero, his ccrew and his ship captive for about 25 years, i can see how you can say anyv of thoses changes is a "stretch by any amount of reason".

likewise, none of this is a big problem for me - I'm quite happy to stand back and have a smile on my face seeing people like you trying to argue that the Kelvin doesnt fit into the prime timeline..and yet fail to make any points of substance.

But the Kelvin herself isn't a great fit in that time the only reason some people can buy it is it is a time before Human met the Klingons so they might have decided to built something not unlike the Galaxy Class concept of long voyages with families on board.


the Kelvin is NOT from a time before Human met the Klingons
we saw no evidence that the Kelvin had "families"on board.......we only know it had 1, and they both seemed to be officers.

But other people object to how huge it is, the general design cues, even it's weapons all seem a less than ideal fit and any sort of fit at all really only works in anyway as some sort of mid point between the NX & 2009 Enterprise.


not sure what you mean in regards to the weapons.
but the ships size is easy to explain, it could be a colony transport ship

The real fun and games start though if you subscribe to the idea that the Enterprise Kirk sees being built isn't the only one - and the Constitution class one also existed in that Universe prior to the 2009 version - but technology wise I think that would cause some serious problems.


why do you think that?

as to the issues with how phazors loooked, i chalk that up to creative licence
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby Burn » Fri Feb 19, 2016 12:53 am

We have a Star Trek thread, just saying. >:oP
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I'll be ignoring Burn's comments from now on
he's just being an @$$hol€!
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby RAR » Fri Feb 19, 2016 2:52 pm

Yeah I know.... It just happens to be what sto_vo_kor_2000 keeps asking me about.

I was actually wanting to also talk about Age of Ultron, Terminator Genisys and indeed the new Ghostbusters as they are all related to the over arching premise of the thread.

But if anyone has any points about Mad Max : Fury Road or Horror Movie reboots/sequels by all means chime in.

The purpose of the thread is the consumer expectations inherent in Sequels - and Star Trek was a relevant topic in that regard as JJ-verse made so many changes and the 3rd Movie in the sub-series is out in the not to distant future.

Also one of the under-points I wish to discuss was the idea of how sequels invent stuff or dis-invent stuff inconsistent with the prior material.

Some sequels make sense with each other (mostly) like Back to the Future they share a theme and characters and "go together" others try to distance themselves from what went before - the case in point there being how Force Awakens distances itself from the Prequels even going so far as to say "You hated the politics - well here is what we think of Politics BOOM !!!"
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby Stuartmaximus » Fri Feb 19, 2016 8:54 pm

Motto: ""i hate to love....& love to hate!""
not really a movie as such...but Captain EO i'd loved to see made into a proper movie, Captain EO is a scifi short film that you can find on YouTube....which starred Michael Jackson & was directed by Francis Ford Coppola & George Lucas, now granted by today's standards...the movie looks pish! & Michael Jackson is no longer with us! but....if the movie were done right! & they somehow got the right cast! then it may stand a chance of being a fun movie! but i seriously doubt Coppola & Lucas would wanna again direct it! lol

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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:41 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Burn wrote:We have a Star Trek thread, just saying. >:oP
RAR wrote:Yeah I know.... It just happens to be what sto_vo_kor_2000 keeps asking me about.


if it helps, im open to replies via pm.
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
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T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Fri Feb 19, 2016 9:42 pm

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Stuartmaximus wrote:not really a movie as such...but Captain EO i'd loved to see made into a proper movie, Captain EO is a scifi short film that you can find on YouTube....which starred Michael Jackson & was directed by Francis Ford Coppola & George Lucas, now granted by today's standards...the movie looks pish! & Michael Jackson is no longer with us! but....if the movie were done right! & they somehow got the right cast! then it may stand a chance of being a fun movie! but i seriously doubt Coppola & Lucas would wanna again direct it! lol


ive never seen this
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
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T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby Stuartmaximus » Sat Feb 20, 2016 4:03 am

Motto: ""i hate to love....& love to hate!""
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Stuartmaximus wrote:not really a movie as such...but Captain EO i'd loved to see made into a proper movie, Captain EO is a scifi short film that you can find on YouTube....which starred Michael Jackson & was directed by Francis Ford Coppola & George Lucas, now granted by today's standards...the movie looks pish! & Michael Jackson is no longer with us! but....if the movie were done right! & they somehow got the right cast! then it may stand a chance of being a fun movie! but i seriously doubt Coppola & Lucas would wanna again direct it! lol


ive never seen this


well now you have ;)
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Re: MOVIES : What is it YOU want from a Remake, Reboot or Sequel?

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Sat Feb 20, 2016 9:56 am

Motto: "Today is a good day to die......but the day is not yet over!"
Stuartmaximus wrote:
sto_vo_kor_2000 wrote:
Stuartmaximus wrote:not really a movie as such...but Captain EO i'd loved to see made into a proper movie, Captain EO is a scifi short film that you can find on YouTube....which starred Michael Jackson & was directed by Francis Ford Coppola & George Lucas, now granted by today's standards...the movie looks pish! & Michael Jackson is no longer with us! but....if the movie were done right! & they somehow got the right cast! then it may stand a chance of being a fun movie! but i seriously doubt Coppola & Lucas would wanna again direct it! lol


ive never seen this


well now you have ;)
;)^ ;)^
Predaprince wrote:I am very thankful to have posters like sto_vo_kor_2000 who is so energetic about improving others' understanding and enjoyment of the TF universe
Stormrider wrote:You often add interesting insights to conversations that makes the fledglings think and challenges even the sharpest minds

T-Macksimus wrote:I consider you and editor to be amongst the most "scholarly" in terms of your knowledge, demeanor and general approach

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