NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Burn » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:48 am

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Uncle Burn's Five Minute (or less) Review of Kingdom!
Guaranteed to be more interesting than some of the opinionated drivel that has been posted as "news" lately

The mere notion of the third chapter being an improvement over the previous two chapters to me, was as mythical as drop bears*, hoop snakes**, and a well planned Covid-19 vaccine roll-out in Australia***.

Suffice to say, it actually was an improvement. Don't get me wrong, it's not enough to redeem the entire series, because it's full of flaws. Voice actors that just don't work (or maybe that's my, and to an extent, the greater fandom's sheep mentality and expecting something of old), the writing far from great, in fact, it could be a lot worse. It could be written by current Doctor Who showrunner Chris Chibnall, and directed by Uwe Boll.

But unlike previous chapters, the pacing of the story was a massive improvement.

You could say there's even character development from Starscream's decent into madness, to Optimus Prime becoming an angsty douchebag with a guilty hero complex.

The introduction of the Beasts and their reason for being there is ... well, let's just say it works ... just.

Across all six episodes the writers have thrown in a few little easter eggs, throwbacks to older storylines involving certain characters, and even scenes that harken back to older media.

The big indicator that this was an improvement was I didn't feel the urge to neck myself after finishing it. I agree with Latebrus-K above in his dislike for the final hook of the episode. Knowing that there more than likely won't be a continuation made that particular scene pointless.

As someone who has disliked the first two chapters, and not given a **** about the toys, I didn't mind this third chapter. If you hate yourself enough to have put yourself through the first two chapters, take a crack at this third chapter, it's less painful, you may even enjoy it.

*Totally exist
**Also totally exist
***100% mythical
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby TOO MUCH ENERGON! » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:10 am

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Two episodes in thus far and this show is hype. Other than Beast Megatron and Tigatron, the voices are fine. Stoked to watch more.
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:19 am

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I was going to wait til finishing all of it before commenting but I can't help myself

I'm halfway done and not bad. The storytelling is nowhere near as lazy as earthrise. The voice acting is still subpar

Prime goes Shatner x1000000 the whole time
Starscream is probably the best
Airazor, Blackarachnia, and Megatron are good enough
Primal and Cheetor are alright

Beast Megatron though, yeesh.

And I seriously can't help but think, why didn't they switch the voice actors for Dinobot and Tigatron? Tigatron sounds like he's imitating Dinobot. And Dinobots smooth tone matches more with Tigatron.

And also, if the budget on this thing was so limited why not hire Scott McNeil? He could've done like half the voices and still made it great. Hell, he probably could've Dee Bradley Baker'd it
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby o.supreme » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:20 am

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I'm really tempted to take time during my lunch break and at least watch the first episode. Not because this show is "so great", but because, after last week, I was hoping to come home from vacation all hyped to watch the New MOTU series. Now going in, I knew there was controversy, and it probably wasn't going to be what it was advertised but man.... that all blew up to The Last Jedi Level hate overnight, and really killed my enthusiasm.

One thing I'll give WFC show creators credit for. They never said this would be an "honest to goodness" continuation of the Marvel/Sunbow show. They let it stand on it's own, for good or ill, an alternate version/universe, something we've become accustomed to. They also for the most part kept their mouths shut, except to promote the show as normal, none of the BS nonsense Kevin Smith has pulled.

Oddly enough, for once, the relative quiet and "normal" promotion of this show will probably make it seem far more satisfying today, then if it had come out a month ago.
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby o.supreme » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:22 am

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Razorbeast88 wrote:And also, if the budget on this thing was so limited why not hire Scott McNeil? He could've done like half the voices and still made it great. Hell, he probably could've Dee Bradley Baker'd it


He's still part of the actors union though...
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:27 am

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Now I will attempt to use the spoiler block thing for the first time, forgive me if I do it wrong

Dude they made beast Megatron SUCH a little bitch holy crap. The voice acting I can get over but his character is atrocious. He's a baby back bitch there's no other way to say it.

Rattrap ALMOST sounds like rattrap sometimes. It's so close just not quite there. But I appreciate that it got as close as it did I guess

Dinobot, they did alright with him. Not too shabby. Nowhere near the greatness of the original, as expected, but nowhere near as bad as he could've been *cough Optimus prime and beast megs* he doesn't sound like dinobot but the script is decent enough. They threw in a line from code of hero and that was somewhat cool, almost awesome

And MAN I was so excited that he was about to face off with Soundwave! My two favorites going toe to toe! And it started off so cool! But then the build up to the fight turned out to be the entire fight lol. Could've been better but I at least felt hype for a moment
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:27 am

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o.supreme wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:And also, if the budget on this thing was so limited why not hire Scott McNeil? He could've done like half the voices and still made it great. Hell, he probably could've Dee Bradley Baker'd it


He's still part of the actors union though...


Yeah, just wishful thinking
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby o.supreme » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:33 am

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Razorbeast88 wrote:
o.supreme wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:And also, if the budget on this thing was so limited why not hire Scott McNeil? He could've done like half the voices and still made it great. Hell, he probably could've Dee Bradley Baker'd it


He's still part of the actors union though...


Yeah, just wishful thinking


If you want to see him "Dee Bradley Baker " a show though...Check out Bucky O'Hare and the Toad wars. It also has Garry Chalk, but supposedly McNeil was doing up to 12 different characters on that show.(according to him...could be false memory though)
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:35 am

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o.supreme wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:
o.supreme wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:And also, if the budget on this thing was so limited why not hire Scott McNeil? He could've done like half the voices and still made it great. Hell, he probably could've Dee Bradley Baker'd it


He's still part of the actors union though...


Yeah, just wishful thinking


If you want to see him "Dee Bradley Baker " a show though...Check out Bucky O'Hare and the Toad wars. It also has Garry Chalk, but supposedly McNeil was doing up to 12 different characters on that show.(according to him...could be false memory though)


Awesome!
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 11:38 am

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also, the Maximals storming in on the autobots was cool and all, but I just finished rewatching the beast wars last night and Primal isn't the type to attack first. Not from what I noticed. And Optimus Prime wouldn't have been like "sorry, Allspark first" prime is more of a "we don't trade lives" kinda guy. But he helped either way so whatever
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Jul 29, 2021 12:54 pm

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It's bad enough when modern TF fiction uses TFTM quote so casually, as if the larger fandom isn't sick and tired of overquoting TFTM... but this show, this show had the gall, the audacity, to quote one of the most poignant lines from "Code of Hero", in a completely different context inferior to the original. The minute this version of Dinobot spoke that line, I yelled at my TV "How DARE you!"

Razorbeast88 wrote:And I seriously can't help but think, why didn't they switch the voice actors for Dinobot and Tigatron? Tigatron sounds like he's imitating Dinobot. And Dinobots smooth tone matches more with Tigatron.
^ This so much!
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 1:30 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:It's bad enough when modern TF fiction uses TFTM quote so casually, as if the larger fandom isn't sick and tired of overquoting TFTM... but this show, this show had the gall, the audacity, to quote one of the most poignant lines from "Code of Hero", in a completely different context inferior to the original. The minute this version of Dinobot spoke that line, I yelled at my TV "How DARE you!"

Razorbeast88 wrote:And I seriously can't help but think, why didn't they switch the voice actors for Dinobot and Tigatron? Tigatron sounds like he's imitating Dinobot. And Dinobots smooth tone matches more with Tigatron.
^ This so much!


It definitely didn't hit the same. They could've done WAY better job with his dialogue and picking what quotes to use but I appreciated the effort. I saw it as a nod to fans, though poorly executed.

I'm glad you agree about the voice actors haha it seems like such a waste. Such an easy fix that it just glares at you anytime either of them speak
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby o.supreme » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:02 pm

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That line about Two Megatrons... I couldn't help but think of this:


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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 4:46 pm

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Beast Megs sounds like a dollar store Forest Whitaker or something idk

also the last episode was pretty cool. I enjoyed it more than anything else
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:21 pm

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Razorbeast88 wrote:It definitely didn't hit the same. They could've done WAY better job with his dialogue and picking what quotes to use but I appreciated the effort. I saw it as a nod to fans, though poorly executed.
That line was the culmination of Dinobot's entire character journey in the original show. For this show to just use it so casually, without any regard for why it was significant in the first place, is as disgraceful as when DOTM had Sentinel Prime quote Spock's dying words to use them as justification for genocide. :BOOM:
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby o.supreme » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:22 pm

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Well it's done. Just saying the last episode is pretty cool,I don't think warrants a spoiler tag.

I know someone could go full meta and say basically that the resolution to every piece of fiction is borne from a problem of its own divising, but in this series I think it's a little more blatant.
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:35 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:It definitely didn't hit the same. They could've done WAY better job with his dialogue and picking what quotes to use but I appreciated the effort. I saw it as a nod to fans, though poorly executed.
That line was the culmination of Dinobot's entire character journey in the original show. For this show to just use it so casually, without any regard for why it was significant in the first place, is as disgraceful as when DOTM had Sentinel Prime quote Spock's dying words to use them as justification for genocide. :BOOM:


I see how you feel a little more now
To be fair I don't think anything in the future is going to match the magnificence of BW Dinobot, especially not in Code of Hero. I don't think I'll ever tire of watching it
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:42 pm

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Razorbeast88 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:It definitely didn't hit the same. They could've done WAY better job with his dialogue and picking what quotes to use but I appreciated the effort. I saw it as a nod to fans, though poorly executed.
That line was the culmination of Dinobot's entire character journey in the original show. For this show to just use it so casually, without any regard for why it was significant in the first place, is as disgraceful as when DOTM had Sentinel Prime quote Spock's dying words to use them as justification for genocide. :BOOM:


I see how you feel a little more now
To be fair I don't think anything in the future is going to match the magnificence of BW Dinobot, especially not in Code of Hero. I don't think I'll ever tire of watching it
I can guarantee that nobody was asking for "Code of Hero, but worse".
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Thu Jul 29, 2021 6:47 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:It definitely didn't hit the same. They could've done WAY better job with his dialogue and picking what quotes to use but I appreciated the effort. I saw it as a nod to fans, though poorly executed.
That line was the culmination of Dinobot's entire character journey in the original show. For this show to just use it so casually, without any regard for why it was significant in the first place, is as disgraceful as when DOTM had Sentinel Prime quote Spock's dying words to use them as justification for genocide. :BOOM:


I see how you feel a little more now
To be fair I don't think anything in the future is going to match the magnificence of BW Dinobot, especially not in Code of Hero. I don't think I'll ever tire of watching it
I can guarantee that nobody was asking for "Code of Hero, but worse".


Can't argue with that one haha
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby ScottyP » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:30 am

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Sabrblade wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:It definitely didn't hit the same. They could've done WAY better job with his dialogue and picking what quotes to use but I appreciated the effort. I saw it as a nod to fans, though poorly executed.
That line was the culmination of Dinobot's entire character journey in the original show. For this show to just use it so casually, without any regard for why it was significant in the first place, is as disgraceful as when DOTM had Sentinel Prime quote Spock's dying words to use them as justification for genocide. :BOOM:
There are times when folks writing Transformers need to stop trying to be cool. Both of these are examples of those times.
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Evil Eye » Fri Jul 30, 2021 11:42 am

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ScottyP wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Razorbeast88 wrote:It definitely didn't hit the same. They could've done WAY better job with his dialogue and picking what quotes to use but I appreciated the effort. I saw it as a nod to fans, though poorly executed.
That line was the culmination of Dinobot's entire character journey in the original show. For this show to just use it so casually, without any regard for why it was significant in the first place, is as disgraceful as when DOTM had Sentinel Prime quote Spock's dying words to use them as justification for genocide. :BOOM:
There are times when folks writing Transformers need to stop trying to be cool. Both of these are examples of those times.

I actually thought the inversion of the Spock quote was somewhat clever, and struck me as at least relatively self aware of the seeming wrongness of taking the quote and completely reversing its original meaning. Whereas from what I understand this is pure "I clapped! I got the reference!" bait, and not even particularly well done.
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Whifflefire » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:30 pm

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Watched it first thing last night after I came home. I have to say, I wasn't disappointed.

Spoiler bar just in case.

The way the wove the basic plot of Beast Wars with the main storyline was well executed, and enough time was given to the Maximals and Predacons where they had plenty of focus of their own without overshadowing the Autobots and Decepticons. The Predacons especially were treated with respect to their original incarnations while creatively incorporating their arcs into the show's plot. I also liked how, as with Earthrise, the lower-tier characters (Hound, Prowl, Astrotrain, etc.) still got a couple of character moments and action scenes of their own. Really only Sideswipe was neglected, but at least his hallucination of Sunstreaker was a subtle but touching hint of backstory, and it was pretty funny when Airrazor couldn't name-check him.

Speaking of humour, This series' jokes were much improved, creating moments of levity without disrupting the tone or flow of the situation. There were even a few good visual comedy moments, like Rattrap's scurrying through the Nemesis. As one of the common criticisms of Siege was that it was too melodramatic, that Earthrise and Kingdom gradually improved on the balance between seriousness and humour makes up for it a bit.

The voice acting was also greatly improved, although still the series' most detracting quality. Most of the beast characters sounded great, especially Blackarachnia, Rattrap, Airrazor, and Dinobot, although hearing Dinobot and Tigatron, one must wonder why they did not switch voice actors. Beast Megatron's voice may irritate some, but at least it was distinct and not another generic growly baritone. Beast Megs is supposed to be theatrical, so this incarnation's haughty delivery doesn't bother me.
Primal's voice didn't bother me either, but his obnoxious attitude was too blatant to forgive sometimes.

I don't think the show ever expected to match Code of Hero, but I think it handled Dinobot very well. His defection subplot featured some of the best dialogue in the series, and having Airrazor be the catalyst for his turn was a nice way to make this version unique while also being a clever meta-reference to the fact that those two never interacted at all in Beast Wars. Dinobot's final battle was also enjoyable, although I wish his fight with Soundwave lasted longer, that one scene could have justified the entire series had it not been cut so short. But Dinobot besting both Megatrons and saving the Matrix? C'mon, you loved it. His death scene was also surprisingly touching, referencing CoH without undeservedly copying it, and securing the Autobots the advantage they needed. His spirit returning to help Primal was weird, but it was a sweet moment when he recognizes Dinobot's spark ascending. The only thing that really bothered me about his death scene was Primal's responding to Dinobot's question about acceptance with "Yes. But you would have made a terrible Maximal". Especially being the last thing he heard? Ouch! It seemed like there should have been another part to that sentence, that reassured Dinobot that his joining their team would not mean he would have had to abandon his Predacon heritage (as was true in BW), but it sounded more like Pimal was telling him "I would have let you in, but I wouldn't have liked you." Other than that, I was sold on Dinobot's role in the show.

My biggest disappointment with Kingdom is the confirmation that the Cybertron-based cast were all killed, thus rendering half of Earthrise kind of pointless. I had a theory that with the introduction of time-travel, the Autobots might have found a way to return to their time just before the apparent deaths of Elita and Co. and rescue them, since their plot ended on a cliffhanger. With their fates kind of ambiguous, it would have been a brilliant way to resolve that ending and the trilogy with all of the characters reuniting. The series had been really good at not wasting its cast, that it chose 'total annihilation' as the end of this part of the story is an underwhelming and unfortunate conclusion.


Ultimately, I enjoyed the WFC Trilogy. It had great ideas and brought together many different parts of the franchise's lore in interesting ways, even if it was let down a bit by the voice acting and structure. But overall a solid entry into Transformers history in support of one of the greatest toylines we've ever had. 'B' for the trilogy at whole and B+ for Kingdom itself.
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby o.supreme » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:38 pm

Motto: "Quis custodiet ipsos custodes"
Whifflefire wrote:My biggest disappointment with Kingdom is the confirmation that the Cybertron-based cast were all killed, thus rendering half of Earthrise kind of pointless. I had a theory that with the introduction of time-travel, the Autobots might have found a way to return to their time just before the apparent deaths of Elita and Co. and rescue them, since their plot ended on a cliffhanger. With their fates kind of ambiguous, it would have been a brilliant way to resolve that ending and the trilogy with all of the characters reuniting. The series had been really good at not wasting its cast, that it chose 'total annihilation' as the end of this part of the story is an underwhelming and unfortunate conclusion.


Probably just a selfish question that will never be answered..What Happened to Omega Supreme? I mean I was half expecting the bots that froze to death to come back once the Allspark was powered up. But since Omega was not part of that group, I guess we will never know. Also what about Shockwave and those who stayed behind with him? That explosion at the end of ER I guess was supposed to be one of those "Kill 'em all, and let Hasbro sort it out" moments Larry Ditillio used to talk about ;)

Lastly, I had to pause it a couple times, but at the end the 1000 foot tall statues of Cog & Refracktor...did they basically just choose the "rando" from each faction to represent everyone who was lost in the conflict? "A Fitting Tribute"... I guess? At first I immediately thought back to Cog's sacrifice at the end of ER, and thought it was a little odd them giving him a statue like that. Basically, whatever it's meaning was, wasn't entirely clear.

Speaking of slightly improved humor, I may have just been in an overly tired state, but Wheeljack's "Well Pop my trunk!" line got a chuckle from me.
Last edited by o.supreme on Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:51 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Razorbeast88 » Fri Jul 30, 2021 3:48 pm

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I liked the little joke about how he wouldve made a terrible Maximal, if only because it seems like the humor that Dinobot enjoys
Thats how he interacted with rattrap in the beast wars series, even up to his death in code of hero
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Re: NETFLIX Transformers War for Cybertron Trilogy CARTOON Series Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Fri Jul 30, 2021 4:24 pm

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
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Razorbeast88 wrote:I liked the little joke about how he wouldve made a terrible Maximal, if only because it seems like the humor that Dinobot enjoys
Thats how he interacted with rattrap in the beast wars series, even up to his death in code of hero
The thing is, we're never given any reason to believe that Dinobot and Primal in this series ever had the kind of relationship that would have warranted such nuanced banter between the two, making the humor behind that line feel unearned.

This show expects its viewers to already be familiar with the original BW series and how all of its characters behaved and interacted with each other, as if that somehow excuses this show from writing its new versions of the BW cast as their own characters without the audience needing to do additional homework in order to get everything that's onscreen in this show, never taking into consideration any new viewers who aren't already familiar with Beast Wars.

That's one of the same flaws as found in the live action remake of Aladdin, which similarly expected its own audience to already be familiar with the original animated movie and thus didn't explain everything that the original movie did feel the need to explain.
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