New IDW Beast Wars comic series

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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby ZeroWolf » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:10 am

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I think being insulated from fan opinion is probably the best way to go with most things. It's very easy to be turned off something by fans.

For what its worth i enjoyed Sciolis work as I was willing to look past the art (indeed I saw it as a loving way to how the comics were done in their golden and silver ages. Took his work back in time and it would have fitted in perfectly.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Mar 31, 2021 5:15 am

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'Hate' has always been offputting to me. There isn't anything in media I've ever gotten myself that worked up over. Even things like X-Men, that I've followed for 30 plus years.

I think all it would take to "update" his work is modern colouring. The difference would probably surprise people. I actually find it really impressive that he is a one-man-band with the art and writing on his books, for the most part.
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Full Five Page Preview of IDW Transformers Beast Wars #3

Postby ZeroWolf » Tue Apr 06, 2021 12:47 pm

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Greetings Seibertronians! Thanks to our friends over at IDW, we have the five page preview of the forthcoming 3rd issue of IDW Transformers Beast Wars! Check out below for the issue description and then read on for the preview!

IDW wrote:Unbeknownst to the Maximals, the Predacons have taken their first prisoner! As Megatron and Tarantulas run their interrogation, dissent stirs in the Predacon ranks. Who’ll give first—the dissatisfied Dinobot or the captured Maximal? The Beast Wars rage on!

AVAILABLE: April 2021
CREATORS:
Erik Burnham (Author) Josh Burcham (Artist, Cover Artist)
IMPRINT: IDW
PAGE COUNT: 32
COLOR: FC


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What do you think of this preview? Will you be reading on?

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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Tue Apr 06, 2021 2:04 pm

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I have one more issue pre-ordered with Forbidden Planet. To me, this one is the 'make or break'.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:00 pm

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This opening story goes at least to "Part 5".
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:03 pm

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I know the first arc won't be resolved in the next issue. My patience might though.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby Spider5800 » Tue Apr 06, 2021 4:14 pm

Hoping this starts to pick up a little this issue. The first one was kind of fun, as it showed a lot of stuff we didn't see in the original show, like the actual heist of the golden disk. But issue two felt like spinning wheels.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby JazZeke » Tue Apr 06, 2021 11:56 pm

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Spider5800 wrote:Hoping this starts to pick up a little this issue. The first one was kind of fun, as it showed a lot of stuff we didn't see in the original show, like the actual heist of the golden disk. But issue two felt like spinning wheels.

Or spinning disks, rather.
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Review for IDW Transformers Beast Wars 3

Postby william-james88 » Wed Apr 07, 2021 10:44 pm

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Review for IDW Transformers Beast Wars 3

Only spoilers in this review


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This is the issue where Dinobot turns and I think it sucks. There, that's the review in a nutshell. Of course, I will dive more into it but that's all this issue will be about because for the most part, that's all that happens. I don't mind that this is all that happens, but if the idea of a longer format retelling of a familiar story is to get more from the characters, this issue really fails at that. The golden rule for visual mediums is to show and not tell. And here we get both show and tell, with Dinobot giving a ridiculously long speech that is essentially the same line over and over again said slightly different as he battles his way through his Predacon brethren. And it becomes pretty one note fast. Which is a major insult to Dinobot, a character that I always felt was the opposite of one note. What is awesome about Dinobot is that in the show, it always felt like the Maximals still had a Predacon amongst them. Here he is reduced to basically already being a maximal, a warrior with the heart of gold spouting some quotes of honour. One of the most layered characters in all of Transformers history now reduced to a trope, it's sad.

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It also makes no sense in the story. He's been with Megatron's crew for a while, he knows how deviant Tarantulus is and how bloodthirsty Terrorsaur is and he stayed around. But now I guess he has to join the Maximals for it to be like the show, so let's quickly make that happen now that they have crash landed. I realize now how smart the original show was to have him be rejected from the Predacons rather than leave of his own accord. Because or else, it just doesn't make as much sense. And I really thought he wouldn't "turn" so early, and we'd have time to see him interacting as a Predacon with the other Predacons but that's not the case.

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There's a trick to knowing if the characters feel true to me, it's having them speak as the voice actor while I read it. It works for Rhinox, most of the Predacons (especially Megatron, yesss) and Rattrap. But not with Dinobot, nor Cheetor and not Optimus Primal. I said in the last review that we are seeing how his changes to his character have repercussions and how it could be interesting but now it's getting annoying. I don't mind him being more adventurous than before but here he sounds like an idiot and by no means a leader of any sort.

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And the art hasn't changed, so if you didn't like it, nothing here will change your mind. I personally do not like it and I find the changes to Dinobot's look with the extra spikes really odd. Those spikes aren't even thematic to his beast mode, so what gives? There are a few other shortcomings in the storytelling. During the fight between Dinobot vs his 6 fellow Predacons, there is a lack of fluidity in action shots where a lot happens in the gutter (between the panels). So in one panel you'll see him facing the team at more than arm length away, and in the one right after you have Terrorsaur landing on Scorponok after being thrown. John Burcham is great at dynamic scenes, like the fights in last issue, but he feels shortchanged here. Instead of better fluidity in the fighting, we get a page dedicated to doors being shut. Yay.

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I was ok with the series so far but this is the worst issue yet and I have yet to see a reason for this series to exist. But hey, that retail incentive cover by Josh Perez is pretty kick ass!

2 out of 5 Dinobot spikes for this issue.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Apr 08, 2021 5:04 am

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I think you might be being a little unfair to the creators here with how quick dinobot turns, as I imagine they had someone looking over their shoulder the entire time, ordering them to adhere to a status quo. Basically they've had the plot points delivered to them and told they had to funnel the characters there. Now we'll see how long this hand holding will last but my suspicion is that hasbro had been more involved with IDW since the reboot. Before Unicron, it seemed like the crossovers got the short end of the stick but now it's the complete opposite, with the crossovers being better recieved!

The thing about the art reminds me of all the times in the past where we had similar debates, like when we got the first Previews of Animated, and GI Joe vs TF. These things are always marmite. Me? I love it, I've got no problems whatsoever as far as art is concerned. Story wise? I'm reserving full judgement for when they get out of this arc. Hopefully the creative overseers will give them more freedom to play.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby Randomhero » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:03 am

ZeroWolf wrote:I think you might be being a little unfair to the creators here with how quick dinobot turns, as I imagine they had someone looking over their shoulder the entire time, ordering them to adhere to a status quo. Basically they've had the plot points delivered to them and told they had to funnel the characters there. Now we'll see how long this hand holding will last but my suspicion is that hasbro had been more involved with IDW since the reboot. Before Unicron, it seemed like the crossovers got the short end of the stick but now it's the complete opposite, with the crossovers being better recieved!

The thing about the art reminds me of all the times in the past where we had similar debates, like when we got the first Previews of Animated, and GI Joe vs TF. These things are always marmite. Me? I love it, I've got no problems whatsoever as far as art is concerned. Story wise? I'm reserving full judgement for when they get out of this arc. Hopefully the creative overseers will give them more freedom to play.


Yeah no. They don’t have someone “standing over their shoulder” giving them notes to do things and yelling them what to do. They’re given an enormous amount of freedom to me the comics and only step in and say no to an idea if they feel it doesn’t represent the character properly. Barber has stated this in several interviews ans QnAs that they have a lot of freedom and they aren’t given a mandate by hasbro or anyone to include things like toys or told how a character should be handled. I like this series a lot and it’s no surprise it’s another seibertron review that’s nothing more than dumping on a book because it’s the thing to do nowadays
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby william-james88 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 7:28 am

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ZeroWolf wrote:I think you might be being a little unfair to the creators here with how quick dinobot turns, as I imagine they had someone looking over their shoulder the entire time, ordering them to adhere to a status quo. Basically they've had the plot points delivered to them and told they had to funnel the characters there. Now we'll see how long this hand holding will last but my suspicion is that hasbro had been more involved with IDW since the reboot. Before Unicron, it seemed like the crossovers got the short end of the stick but now it's the complete opposite, with the crossovers being better recieved!

The thing about the art reminds me of all the times in the past where we had similar debates, like when we got the first Previews of Animated, and GI Joe vs TF. These things are always marmite. Me? I love it, I've got no problems whatsoever as far as art is concerned. Story wise? I'm reserving full judgement for when they get out of this arc. Hopefully the creative overseers will give them more freedom to play.


I'm not really pointing fingers, at least it's not what I set out to do. I am just judging the final product as it's shown to me.

Randomhero wrote: I like this series a lot and it’s no surprise it’s another seibertron review that’s nothing more than dumping on a book because it’s the thing to do nowadays


Just saying how I feel. I liked the previous issue and didn't like this one. We all have different taste, nothing more than that.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby D-Maximal_Primal » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:18 am

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Gonna continue to stand my ground with Zerowolf: I have liked the series, and ya know what, I liked this issue. I liked how they played Dinobots turn. In the series, he's basically angry at Megatron for "failing" and then they eject him straightaway, leading to his "pred in Maximal forces" story. Here, it's like he's been a member for a while, but he has always had an issue with how the Pred forces work (remember issue 1 with Unit-3?). Nyx is essentially just the final straw. He even said it himself: he is not betraying his beliefs, he still holds the same viewpoints, he just doesn't want to do it with people who are violent for no reason essentially, which speaks to me on a personal level.

It may have come earlier than expected, but it was still set up nicely in issue 1 and played out well here. Would it have worked better in issue 4 or 5? Maybe, but we'll have to wait and see.

I liked it, and I would have given it at least a 3.5 out of 5, maybe a 4, but not sure on that note yet.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:42 am

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D-Maximal_Primal wrote: In the series, he's basically angry at Megatron for "failing" and then they eject him straightaway, leading to his "pred in Maximal forces" story. Here, it's like he's been a member for a while, but he has always had an issue with how the Pred forces work



Yeah, no. After thinking they had been led to the wrong planet, Dinobot makes a power play and attempts a coup (a very Decepticon/Predacon thing to do) which it backfires. Because Megatron is smarter than Dinobot and has the loyalty of the others.
He then attempts the same thing with Primal and the end result is an uneasy alliance for much of season one.
That is what actually happened in the series.

As for the latter point, that was always implied. Whenever Dinobot talked of his honour. It was clear his ideology didn't mesh with Maximal or Predacon notions on the subject. As mentioned in the review, Dinobot is a layered and nuanced character.

I'll reserve full judgement until the issue arrives (Just got a dispatch this morning) but I do think this approach undermines his character arc in general. Dinobots motives were always loosely tied to the Predacon belief of 'might equals right'. Sign of enemy weakness is the signal to attack.
Simplifying this, as shown in issue 1, just makes him a generic trope.
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Re: Review for IDW Transformers Beast Wars 3

Postby o.supreme » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:45 am

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william-james88 wrote:But hey, that retail incentive cover by Josh Perez is pretty kick ass!


Agreed.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby Spider5800 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 8:52 am

Well, that's disappointing. Only three issues in, and I'll try to support ANYTHING Beast Wars related just to show HasTak it still has fans out there, so I'll still give it until the end of the first arc before I drop it. But yeah, the whole point of taking your time with a story everyone already knows is to bring something new to it, and so far, it doesn't really feel like they've done that. The new characters are barely developed (all I know about Nyx so far is she's a good pilot, and she likes to fly), and they haven't really brought anything new to the existing characters either.

Come on IDW, I NEED this to get better.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby bluecatcinema » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:25 pm

Dinobot's turn doesn't really bother me. He was shown from the beginning of this series to be dissatisfied with his fellow Predacons' ruthlessness. What they were planning to do with Nyx was simply the last straw.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby william-james88 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:31 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:Simplifying this, as shown in issue 1, just makes him a generic trope.


That's the phrasing I was looking for in my review, I made an edit. Thanks.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:32 pm

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bluecatcinema wrote:Dinobot's turn doesn't really bother me. He was shown from the beginning of this series to be dissatisfied with his fellow Predacons' ruthlessness. What they were planning to do with Nyx was simply the last straw.



Except when the opportunity arrives, Dinobot's entire thing is he is just as ruthless as the other Predacons. He IS a Predacon at his core.. This characterisation, he is WFC Jetfire. IE The defector trope.


^ This trope, is actually a thing. Dinobot was always More than this.

Also, I'm pretty sure I mentioned something about Dinobot and Nyx... Seems a bit prophetic in hindsight.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby william-james88 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 12:55 pm

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AllNewSuperRobot wrote:
bluecatcinema wrote:Dinobot's turn doesn't really bother me. He was shown from the beginning of this series to be dissatisfied with his fellow Predacons' ruthlessness. What they were planning to do with Nyx was simply the last straw.



Except when the opportunity arrives, Dinobot's entire thing is he is just as ruthless as the other Predacons. He IS a Predacon at his core.. This characterisation, he is WFC Jetfire. IE The defector trope.


^ This trope, is actually a thing. Dinobot was always More than this.

Also, I'm pretty sure I mentioned something about Dinobot and Nyx... Seems a bit prophetic in hindsight.


We'll be fair to the writing though, they could have chosen to simply have him be the defector trope in this interpretation. Since, as bluecatcinema said, you could interpret earlier actions in the series as also falling into it as well.

So, his turn here could make sense within what the writer set up to do while still being a downgrade for the character since the end result to me is a far less interesting character and dynamic. We'll see where this goes next.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:13 pm

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That was always a clever part to Dinobot's character. He clearly found Maximal actions distasteful. Believing their methods ineffectual and weak. He was never a full convert. He allied with them but, was always at odds with their ideology. Albeit less overtly by Season two. Until the Golden Disk exchange. Where his Predacon nature reared up once more.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby william-james88 » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:33 pm

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Sadly, we don't have that big an interactive fanbase on these boards for the comics section. So the way I write my reviews are more heavily opinion based so that they can serve as a jumping off point (like a top 5 list). I looked for other places where this book is discussed and wow, and I thought I was harsh

Transmit Him wrote:I thought it was absolute trash. Nyx has been captured and is being tortured. This should be the point at which we (finally) learn something about her, get in her head and actually come to care about her as a character. And yet her struggle exists only to serve Dinobot's story, as an inciting incident for his entirely inevitable exit from the Predacons. One that is significantly worse than it is in the cartoon because Burnham's take on the character is so ridiculously one-dimensional. There's no believability to this honour-obsessed stick in the mud having signed up with this group in the first place, so him lecturing them at length at how much of a better person he is doesn't read well at all. And that's even before you consider that Nyx does nothing to help in her own escape, is a damsel in distress that is saved by one of the male villains taking pity on her and that Dinobot doesn't even directly interact with her. Her survival is almost incidental to his big grandstanding character moment, which is just the same trite rubbish he's been spouting since issue 1.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby ZeroWolf » Thu Apr 08, 2021 1:51 pm

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So this is in reference to my exchange with Randomnhero earlier about hasbro having a say in what goes on.

ScottyP also said something similar.

Sabrblade wrote:according the interviews at the end of the issue, the decision to make this whole series a new take on the cartoon's premise seems to have come from on high at Hasbro for the sake of marketing consistency across the brand, meaning that any new Beast Wars comic couldn't have reinvented the wheel from the ground up even if they wanted to.

So, with the recycled cartoon premise having been an executive mandate, it's up to Burnham to take the story in whatever new directions he can within the confines of keeping things consistent for the brand. After all, Burnham mentioned that his original draft was "like 99% beat for beat" the same as the cartoon. Whereas the final version is riddled with tons of little differences in the details (the space battle's completely different, for one). He makes it clear that he wants to tell a new and different version of the story, but still has to adhere to what his bosses want from this series.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Thu Apr 08, 2021 2:03 pm

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As an IP holder, they will always have final say over everything. This to me, doesn't read as Hasbro breathing down the creative team's neck. Rather there are broad strokes that must be adhered to. For this one, I imagine it is simply: Dinobot defects.

william-james88 wrote:Sadly, we don't have that big an interactive fanbase on these boards for the comics section. So the way I write my reviews are more heavily opinion based so that they can serve as a jumping off point (like a top 5 list). I looked for other places where this book is discussed and wow, and I thought I was harsh

Transmit Him wrote:I thought it was absolute trash. Nyx has been captured and is being tortured. This should be the point at which we (finally) learn something about her, get in her head and actually come to care about her as a character. And yet her struggle exists only to serve Dinobot's story, as an inciting incident for his entirely inevitable exit from the Predacons. One that is significantly worse than it is in the cartoon because Burnham's take on the character is so ridiculously one-dimensional. There's no believability to this honour-obsessed stick in the mud having signed up with this group in the first place, so him lecturing them at length at how much of a better person he is doesn't read well at all. And that's even before you consider that Nyx does nothing to help in her own escape, is a damsel in distress that is saved by one of the male villains taking pity on her and that Dinobot doesn't even directly interact with her. Her survival is almost incidental to his big grandstanding character moment, which is just the same trite rubbish he's been spouting since issue 1.



It is harsh and at the same time, indicative of the unrealistically high expectations the reviewer has for Nyx.
I saw on Social Media, Hasbro Pulse UK were having a Q&A. Wherein someone commented on the release of a Nyx and Skold figure. Based on a handful of visual appearances and next to no characterisation :???:

I'm seeing a crazy set of extreme reactions to this series (note after only Three issues). Either near sycophantic praise of objective mediocrity. Usually justified by the good will garnered from the creative teams' previous work. Or utter hatred for something that was never going to reach the highs of the show.

It is this fan reaction, ZeroWolf and I discussed before. That is starting to put me off this book more than anything else.
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Re: New IDW Beast Wars comic series

Postby ScottyP » Thu Apr 08, 2021 4:13 pm

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I really enjoyed it and had fun reading it. Some of the art moments were pretty great, and many of Megatron's lines have a dark humor to them that I'm really enjoying.

A lot of the Dinobot character criticism here is right on the money objectively, but it didn't take my enjoyment away. I knew Dinobot was going to turn, we all did, just get it over with - which is all they really did here, but I can understand wanting more out of that.

Probably the biggest negative about this first arc is it feels like Burnham's writing "for the trade" and man, I just get so sad at that approach for monthly comics.

ZeroWolf wrote:ScottyP also said something similar.

Sabrblade wrote:according the interviews at the end of the issue, the decision to make this whole series a new take on the cartoon's premise seems to have come from on high at Hasbro for the sake of marketing consistency across the brand, meaning that any new Beast Wars comic couldn't have reinvented the wheel from the ground up even if they wanted to.
That's Sabrblade's post, not mine. I assure you we are different people :)
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