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It's interesting to note how odd it is that Decepticons are taking Autobot prisoners in DOTM.

But what is most interestingly, is that Soundwave never intend on killing them. It was until Dylan lecturing him about getting respect then he chose to execute them.

Makes your wonder, what if Optimus and the Autobots brutality was the result of their training with the humans. They were less brutish and merciless in the 2007 movie. What if, like Dylan, Lennox or the NEST superior were the ones influencing the Autobots to act their brutal way. How they act, after the event of Mission City. Maybe Optimus planned to take Decepticons prisoner, but human superiors suggested otherwise. The after several killing, it becomes a bloodlust.

Look at it this way. 9 Autobots destroyed about 200 Decepticons with little effort. Optimus alone, could take on the like of Soundwave, Shockwave, Starscream and Megatron even with one arm behind his back. So how did they, with an army of Autobots, lost in Cybertron?

Clearly they learned something from the humans once they arrive here. Ironicly, they learned from humans how to be inhuman.

I love the score music for that scene.
I agree on most of that..

since they can use the internet, i guess prime somehow got to watch some fist of the northstar videos and came to the conclusion it's ok to kill as long as it's in the name of justice...

but since he doesn't go ATATATATATATATATATATA... i'm guessing probably not.

Prime over the 3 films slowly became a one bot army.

Look at the final battle scene in the 07 movie. He was getting beat down by megs for most of that scene.

ROTF, much better.....but lost in the forest scene. (yeah, 3 on 1, but look at DOTM)

DOTM.....I wonder why the other autobots were even in the film honestly.

Like he was learning from chuck norris in the down time or something. Watched the Matrix trilogy too much or something.

Don't let one movie sway you about the cons. in ROTF they set a trap and Megs stabbs Optimus Prime in the back. Megatron Rips Jazz in two. The cons tried to destroy the sun for energy...... etc, etc. They were bad with little sign of remorse. And they still killed Q while he was begging them not too.

Humans are more savage than Decepticons.

Movie Optimus > every other Optimus.

dirk2243 wrote:Prime over the 3 films slowly became a one bot army.

Look at the final battle scene in the 07 movie. He was getting beat down by megs for most of that scene.

ROTF, much better.....but lost in the forest scene. (yeah, 3 on 1, but look at DOTM)

Eh, I'm still of the opinion they just didn't represent Megatron well, he was frozen for thousands of years, 2 years dead shouldn't have affected him so much in ROTF when Optimus had no chance in part 1.

But then...if they humans really did make such a difference (which would be interesting to say the least) then it would be acceptable somewhat.

DOTM.....I wonder why the other autobots were even in the film honestly.

Heh...true, the only other one who got to be cool was IronHide and well...we all know how THAT ended...

dirk2243 wrote:Prime over the 3 films slowly became a one bot army.

Look at the final battle scene in the 07 movie. He was getting beat down by megs for most of that scene.

ROTF, much better.....but lost in the forest scene. (yeah, 3 on 1, but look at DOTM)

DOTM.....I wonder why the other autobots were even in the film honestly.

Like he was learning from chuck norris in the down time or something. Watched the Matrix trilogy too much or something.

Don't let one movie sway you about the cons. in ROTF they set a trap and Megs stabbs Optimus Prime in the back. Megatron Rips Jazz in two. The cons tried to destroy the sun for energy...... etc, etc. They were bad with little sign of remorse. And they still killed Q while he was begging them not too.

That's an interesting thing to mention.

Not that I wanted to bash the Autobots,(although I am a Con guy), but notice 95% of the time, the Autobots seemed to beg for their lives in a near death situation.

1. Q begged Soundwave to not kill him.
2. Sentinel Prime begged Optimus "No, Optimus, NO!"
3. Optimus Prime begged Sentinel "No, Sentinel, please..!"
4. Somebody mentioned that even Ironhide begged to Sentinel(I'm not sure of this )

A hero is a person that fight for justice, but not as far as killing his enemy.
An Anti-Hero is a person that fight for his justice that will kill his enemy, and is not afraid to die.
A villian however, kills for his cause, but is afraid of being killed.

Seemed the Bay's Autobots(ROTF-DOTM), doesn't match either the first 2 above.

Just my opinion.

zwann wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:Prime over the 3 films slowly became a one bot army.

Look at the final battle scene in the 07 movie. He was getting beat down by megs for most of that scene.

ROTF, much better.....but lost in the forest scene. (yeah, 3 on 1, but look at DOTM)

DOTM.....I wonder why the other autobots were even in the film honestly.

Like he was learning from chuck norris in the down time or something. Watched the Matrix trilogy too much or something.

Don't let one movie sway you about the cons. in ROTF they set a trap and Megs stabbs Optimus Prime in the back. Megatron Rips Jazz in two. The cons tried to destroy the sun for energy...... etc, etc. They were bad with little sign of remorse. And they still killed Q while he was begging them not too.

That's an interesting thing to mention.

Not that I wanted to bash the Autobots,(although I am a Con guy), but notice 95% of the time, the Autobots seemed to beg for their lives in a near death situation.

1. Q begged Soundwave to not kill him.
2. Sentinel Prime begged Optimus "No, Optimus, NO!"
3. Optimus Prime begged Sentinel "No, Sentinel, please..!"
4. Somebody mentioned that even Ironhide begged to Sentinel(I'm not sure of this )

A hero is a person that fight for justice, but not as far as killing his enemy.
An Anti-Hero is a person that fight for his justice that will kill his enemy, and is not afraid to die.
A villian however, kills for his cause, but is afraid of being killed.

Seemed the Bay's Autobots(ROTF-DOTM), doesn't match either the first 2 above.

Just my opinion.

the autobots dont fit into the architypical hero mould

zwann wrote:1. Q begged Soundwave to not kill him.
2. Sentinel Prime begged Optimus "No, Optimus, NO!"
3. Optimus Prime begged Sentinel "No, Sentinel, please..!"
4. Somebody mentioned that even Ironhide begged to Sentinel(I'm not sure of this )

Que isn't much of a fighter, more of a behind-the-scenes gadget maker.
Optimus's pleas may have been a last ditch attempt to get Sentinel to stop damning the whole Earth as opposed to just sparing his own life.
Ironhide didn't beg, he said something to the extent of "what have you done?"

Sentinel was rather hypocritical in that "he without mercy now begs for it" way, though I wouldn't judge all Autobots on a traitor.

I wonder if there would be a fourth movie, it will be about Optimus becoming a loose cannon that much that the other autobots need to take him down...

Optimus Primevil wrote:since they can use the internet, i guess prime somehow got to watch some fist of the northstar videos and came to the conclusion it's ok to kill as long as it's in the name of justice...

but since he doesn't go ATATATATATATATATATATA... i'm guessing probably not.

FOTNS does seem to have inspired some of those vicious killing scenes. Would have been interesting to have a scene where Prime says "You're already dead" but that would be pushing it!

Bonecrusher27 wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote:since they can use the internet, i guess prime somehow got to watch some fist of the northstar videos and came to the conclusion it's ok to kill as long as it's in the name of justice...

but since he doesn't go ATATATATATATATATATATA... i'm guessing probably not.

FOTNS does seem to have inspired some of those vicious killing scenes. Would have been interesting to have a scene where Prime says "You're already dead" but that would be pushing it!

ha ha.

Well, Megs with no head can just come back as a head robot next.

Guess Bay or Spielburg just changed those scenes too much, I don't know.

If I read them right from somewhere that I can't remember now, in the novel, Soundwave was planning on dragging all the Autobot prisoners to be in front of Megatron so they can kill them for fun, Dylan never showed up in that scene. Then at the end when Megatron finished Sentinel and called truce, Prime actually let him go instead of ...... you know what he did.

So who is more evil?

By the way, Dylan was so busy. Has to run here to Sentinel and Megatron Autobots alive and then run there to remind Soundwave and then run back here again to reactivate the pillar. Busy man!

Also, it's pity Megatron only peaked in the first movie. He couldn't even compete one on one in ROTF but called for help in forest battle. In DOTM, I felt he can barely stand and used every last bit of his energon to beat Sentinel (and save Prime...).

It's interesting to note how odd it is that Decepticons are taking Autobot prisoners in DOTM.

But what is most interestingly, is that Soundwave never intend on killing them. It was until Dylan lecturing him about getting respect then he chose to execute them.

Makes your wonder, what if Optimus and the Autobots brutality was the result of their training with the humans. They were less brutish and merciless in the 2007 movie. What if, like Dylan, Lennox or the NEST superior were the ones influencing the Autobots to act their brutal way. How they act, after the event of Mission City. Maybe Optimus planned to take Decepticons prisoner, but human superiors suggested otherwise. The after several killing, it becomes a bloodlust.

Look at it this way. 9 Autobots destroyed about 200 Decepticons with little effort. Optimus alone, could take on the like of Soundwave, Shockwave, Starscream and Megatron even with one arm behind his back. So how did they, with an army of Autobots, lost in Cybertron?

Clearly they learned something from the humans once they arrive here. Ironicly, they learned from humans how to be inhuman.

I agree with the fact that the humans are /where influencing the autobots to the point that they were almost matching the decepticons in brutality

Prime over the 3 films slowly became a one bot army.

Look at the final battle scene in the 07 movie. He was getting beat down by megs for most of that scene.

ROTF, much better.....but lost in the forest scene. (yeah, 3 on 1, but look at DOTM)

DOTM.....I wonder why the other autobots were even in the film honestly.

its true he did become a one bot army but i believe that he got his butt kicked so many freakin times it must have ticked him off
i was also under the impression that ,and im probably wrong, but prime didnt like flying due to the fact that he never really remains in the sky for very long

maybe the allspark fragment acts as a downgrade for megatron?

Optimus Primevil wrote:maybe the allspark fragment acts as a downgrade for megatron?

Prime was likely holding back in the first movie due to all humans around and buildings to wreck. He didn't seem to really want to kill Megatron, as he offered have the Allspark merged with him rather than Sam's idea(Sam said he was never giving him the all spark...so much for that theory heh.), and really seemed saddened by Megatron's death.

Not to say Megatron was rebuilt from the best parts as his other hand was rather gimpy compared to his original one. Doctor might have done a bit of a rush job in ROTF. Megatron was still incredibly durable for first two films, as he withstood. The 3rd film he'd been pushed to the brink, from all onslaught he'd received.He took a volley of attacks from the air force, army and Optimus (and some minor damage from the other Autobots.) prior to the Allspark being shoved down his chest.

In Rotf, Megatron probably takes a worse beating overall, and keeps going like a champ. He smashes thru a submarine like it was nothing. Withstands all abuse from Optimus, and kills him in the factory/Forest battle.(with help, but in the end Megatron kept his eyes on the prize while Prime got sloppy.)In the Desert battle Megatron gets blasted something fierce by the armed forces. He takes a massive volley of shells and a bomb that trashes every one caught in the blast but him. (Ironhide was the only other Transformer who survived the blast and he was seriously damaged by it.) After killing Sam he still manages fly away after all that. Then takes on a powered up Jet-Optimus, and overall fairs better than the Fallen did. For a moment I thought Prime killed Megatron again...till he yelled for Starscream of all people.

All in all Megatron was a beast for first two movies in terms of what he could take. It made sense for him be off his A game and rather weak based on his condition in Dotm. While people might have wanted a final throw down for him and Prime that lasted longer, neither was remotely close to full power by time they tangled. Basically whoever hit the other first was going win, and Prime took the first strike. I think if Megatron had blasted Prime then he'd easily won. Given how much his blaster took the wind of Sentinel's sails , I'm sure Prime would have been in trouble.

Lastjustice wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote:maybe the allspark fragment acts as a downgrade for megatron?

Prime was likely holding back in the first movie due to all humans around and buildings to wreck. He didn't seem to really want to kill Megatron, as he offered have the Allspark merged with him rather than Sam's idea(Sam said he was never giving him the all spark...so much for that theory heh.), and really seemed saddened by Megatron's death.

I've heard this a lot, didn't seem like it to me at least. They both fought relatively unarmed for most of the fight (oddly Megatron only ever used a weapon against Prime after Prime did...). Though Optimus did show he was being a bit more careful when sliding down that building, unlike Megatron...

Not to say Megatron was rebuilt from the best parts as his other hand was rather gimpy compared to his original one.

Huh, interesting, hadn't quite looked at it that way....

All in all Megatron was a beast for first two movies in terms of what he could take. It made sense for him be off his A game and rather weak based on his condition in Dotm. While people might have wanted a final throw down for him and Prime that lasted longer, neither was remotely close to full power by time they tangled. Basically whoever hit the other first was going win, and Prime took the first strike. I think if Megatron had blasted Prime then he'd easily won. Given how much his blaster took the wind of Sentinel's sails , I'm sure Prime would have been in trouble.

Agreed here, I don't think Megatron was THAT much weakened in DOTM as he was able to severely injure Sentinel (granted, the first shot was a sneak attack) but they were both pretty beat up. Sentinel even tore off part of his head earlier (or a brace or something).

dirk2243 wrote:Like he was learning from chuck norris in the down time or something. Watched the Matrix trilogy too much or something.

I think he took lessons from the Master Cheif

Wing Saber II wrote:

dirk2243 wrote:Like he was learning from chuck norris in the down time or something. Watched the Matrix trilogy too much or something.

I think he took lessons from the Master Cheif

Oh good one.....forgot about him

Lastjustice wrote:

Optimus Primevil wrote:maybe the allspark fragment acts as a downgrade for megatron?

Prime was likely holding back in the first movie due to all humans around and buildings to wreck. He didn't seem to really want to kill Megatron, as he offered have the Allspark merged with him rather than Sam's idea(Sam said he was never giving him the all spark...so much for that theory heh.), and really seemed saddened by Megatron's death.

Not to say Megatron was rebuilt from the best parts as his other hand was rather gimpy compared to his original one. Doctor might have done a bit of a rush job in ROTF. Megatron was still incredibly durable for first two films, as he withstood. The 3rd film he'd been pushed to the brink, from all onslaught he'd received.He took a volley of attacks from the air force, army and Optimus (and some minor damage from the other Autobots.) prior to the Allspark being shoved down his chest.

In Rotf, Megatron probably takes a worse beating overall, and keeps going like a champ. He smashes thru a submarine like it was nothing. Withstands all abuse from Optimus, and kills him in the factory/Forest battle.(with help, but in the end Megatron kept his eyes on the prize while Prime got sloppy.)In the Desert battle Megatron gets blasted something fierce by the armed forces. He takes a massive volley of shells and a bomb that trashes every one caught in the blast but him. (Ironhide was the only other Transformer who survived the blast and he was seriously damaged by it.) After killing Sam he still manages fly away after all that. Then takes on a powered up Jet-Optimus, and overall fairs better than the Fallen did. For a moment I thought Prime killed Megatron again...till he yelled for Starscream of all people.

All in all Megatron was a beast for first two movies in terms of what he could take. It made sense for him be off his A game and rather weak based on his condition in Dotm. While people might have wanted a final throw down for him and Prime that lasted longer, neither was remotely close to full power by time they tangled. Basically whoever hit the other first was going win, and Prime took the first strike. I think if Megatron had blasted Prime then he'd easily won. Given how much his blaster took the wind of Sentinel's sails , I'm sure Prime would have been in trouble.

Well said, but isn't the first movie's Optimus closer to what we know since..... G1? Or at least it is what we think and prefer a Prime should look like instead of the slash and dice Holywood style hero?

I've heard this a lot, didn't seem like it to me at least. They both fought relatively unarmed for most of the fight (oddly Megatron only ever used a weapon against Prime after Prime did...). Though Optimus did show he was being a bit more careful when sliding down that building, unlike Megatron...

Well said, but isn't the first movie's Optimus closer to what we know since..... G1? Or at least it is what we think and prefer a Prime should look like instead of the slash and dice Holywood style hero?

Prime still offed Bonecrusher rather quickly in the first film, so he wasn't using kid gloves on everyone. He definately was holding back on Megatron as it seemed be more of a lubricating contest while two of them scuffled than either of them truly trying kill each other. Like two brothers fighting, as neither seemed to be going all out. Prime would rather died than kill Megatron as he just wanted to hold Megatron off while the Allspark was taken to safety if possible.

Megatron likely wanted prime to be alive during his moment of victory, as he seemed more intent on breaking Prime in both revenge of the Fallen and first film, than purely just killing him as he lectured Prime both times as they fought. (which Prime told him He'd never stop at one, and all hell broke loose.)Megatron ultimately respected Prime enough to want him at his side if possible.