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GuyIncognito wrote:Some people really know how to take all the fun out of a hobby. Why not just be thankful for the good figures they DO make and not get all worked up about how they're not doing what you want?

I think its important for people to be able to freely express their opinions on the things they are most passionate about. Questioning things, negative feedback etc...is what makes the world go 'round, and leads to progress and improvement.

Like a previous poster said, it seems "they" do listen sometimes.

Didnt mean to take all of the fun out of the hobby for you.

for US?

I vote No

Worldwide?

I vote yes

MP's, Asian market exclusives.. those are a bright spot.

JackStraw wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:Some people really know how to take all the fun out of a hobby. Why not just be thankful for the good figures they DO make and not get all worked up about how they're not doing what you want?

I think its important for people to be able to freely express their opinions on the things they are most passionate about. Questioning things, negative feedback etc...is what makes the world go 'round, and leads to progress and improvement.

Like a previous poster said, it seems "they" do listen sometimes.

Didnt mean to take all of the fun out of the hobby for you.

A. I never said or implied that people shouldn't express their opinions. [That's a "straw man" argument - appropriate from someone with the name Jack Straw ] What I was implying was that people who focus on the negatives might want to change their perspective in order to allow themselves to enjoy their hobby (and life in general) more.

B. I never said or implied that you or anyone else was taking the fun out the hobby FOR ME. People who focus on the negatives take the fun out of the hobby FOR THEMSELVES.

C. If negative feedback makes the world go round, I don't want to live in that world.

Blurrz wrote:

Isn't that in Singapore though?

GuyIncognito wrote:Some people really know how to take all the fun out of a hobby. Why not just be thankful for the good figures they DO make and not get all worked up about how they're not doing what you want?

Well, that's part of my issue. Back in December, I bought my last Transformer at retail and it was Sky Shadow. It looked so sweet and I just had to have it right then! Yesterday when I was in the city, I had that feeling again for the first time in 8 months! ...it was Sky Shadow again. The TRU Express in the Gallery finally got him and Junkheap in. Five fully loaded pegs of Bumblebees and Cliffjumpers and a single peg of last years Generations. And there is seriously nothing that I actually want until FoC Grimlock and Blaster and those are just to replace the Classics and Device Label ones, respectively. I don't have the Hub so I don't care for Prime. I don't like chibi rock-paper-scissors toys. I really think Hasbro should have made that the focal gimmick of Battle Beasts what with it being the original point of Battle Beasts in the '80s anyway. I'm disappointed in what I'm seeing of Kre-O after what I consider an excellent start (at least for the Autobots) and the single release Kreons in my opinion aren't as good as last years either. I love the little guys but I want the large robots made out of Legos thing to be worth it. Even FoC and Prime Ultra Magnus and FoC Swindle aren't definite purchases right now. And that is a sorry state of affairs.

Also, for the last time, HASBRO DOESN'T HAVE ANYTHING TO DO WITH DISTRIBUTION! THAT IS THE RETAILERS! ONCE IT LEAVES CHINA IT'S NOT THERE PROBLEM! THEY EVEN DO THE CASE ASSORTMENTS BASED ON RETAILER NEEDS AND WANTS! HASBRO DOESN'T CARE IF THEY MAKE 6,000 BUMBLEBEES OR 6,000,000, IT'S THE RETAILERS THAT ORDER THEM! BLAME WALMART, NOT HASBRO!

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Isn't that in Singapore though?

Nope, my hometown in Canada.

Blurrz wrote:

JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Isn't that in Singapore though?

Nope, my hometown in Canada.

Close enough, that was my second guess. Even the Walmart closest to me in the US doesn't have that big of a section for Transformers, I'm jealous. Having FE up the wazoo... Too bad it's mostly Bumblebee thanks to case breakdowns.

GuyIncognito wrote:

JackStraw wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:Some people really know how to take all the fun out of a hobby. Why not just be thankful for the good figures they DO make and not get all worked up about how they're not doing what you want?

I think its important for people to be able to freely express their opinions on the things they are most passionate about. Questioning things, negative feedback etc...is what makes the world go 'round, and leads to progress and improvement.

Like a previous poster said, it seems "they" do listen sometimes.

Didnt mean to take all of the fun out of the hobby for you.

A. I never said or implied that people shouldn't express their opinions. [That's a "straw man" argument - appropriate from someone with the name Jack Straw ] What I was implying was that people who focus on the negatives might want to change their perspective in order to allow themselves to enjoy their hobby (and life in general) more.

B. I never said or implied that you or anyone else was taking the fun out the hobby FOR ME. People who focus on the negatives take the fun out of the hobby FOR THEMSELVES.

C. If negative feedback makes the world go round, I don't want to live in that world.

Just because folks are not happy with the sad state of Transformers doesnt mean they focus on the negative, don't enjoy the hobby or life for that matter. I think you're overreaching a little there....but, your point does make sense....but since you took a shot at my family name (I think?) I guess all I can do is just thank you for the invaluable life advice.

JackStraw wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:

JackStraw wrote:

GuyIncognito wrote:Some people really know how to take all the fun out of a hobby. Why not just be thankful for the good figures they DO make and not get all worked up about how they're not doing what you want?

I think its important for people to be able to freely express their opinions on the things they are most passionate about. Questioning things, negative feedback etc...is what makes the world go 'round, and leads to progress and improvement.

Like a previous poster said, it seems "they" do listen sometimes.

Didnt mean to take all of the fun out of the hobby for you.

A. I never said or implied that people shouldn't express their opinions. [That's a "straw man" argument - appropriate from someone with the name Jack Straw ] What I was implying was that people who focus on the negatives might want to change their perspective in order to allow themselves to enjoy their hobby (and life in general) more.

B. I never said or implied that you or anyone else was taking the fun out the hobby FOR ME. People who focus on the negatives take the fun out of the hobby FOR THEMSELVES.

C. If negative feedback makes the world go round, I don't want to live in that world.

Just because folks are not happy with the sad state of Transformers doesnt mean they focus on the negative, don't enjoy the hobby or life for that matter. I think you're overreaching a little there....but, your point does make sense....but since you took a shot at my family name (I think?) I guess all I can do is just thank you for the invaluable life advice.

Agreed. If we didn't care about the hobby and love Transformers, we would care enough to complain. I'll give credit where credit is due (FOC Grimlock, upcoming MPs, China repaints) but right now, the 3Ps are really driving the hobby (at least for me).

OMG I'M BLIND! IT'S SO YELLOW! MAKE IT STOP!

And I voted NO CONFIDENCE, pretty much for the reasons mentioned before. I understand that Hasbro is all about the money, but they can't possibly be sipping their own Kool Aid and think that the MP line by itself is enough to placate the adult collectors.

I'm not particularly stoked on anything Hasbro has to offer these days. I feel they need to release more obscure characters in toy form and use them in Prime and explore the richness of personalities that have accumulated over the past 30 years since Prime is meant to be their long term permanent vehicle for the franchise and canon.

Also, they need to keep the Classics line going with old schoolish designs. Not movieverse aesthetic and also quit with the massive amounts of repaints. That **** is boring!

The Prime line isn't really doing it for me because of such a limited cast....at the present time(fingers crossed). They are spicing it up though here and there(insecticons). But they need to step up their game in that regard and maybe use Animated as a template. That show seemed to be a hopefull one when introducing older characters anew.IMO.

3rd party stuff feeds my needs, and as far as obscure characters go.....the comics are really peeking my interest these days. MTMTE and RID are bringing them to the forefront. In fact, the comics are my main focus right now. They keep my interest peeked and are far more stimulating than the politics and shortcomings of plastic crack these days. Of which i believe there is definite room for improvement.

Nevertheless, with that being said. My vote is NO.

Whatever...i'll shut up and wait patiently for things to get "cool" again on the toy front. Until then...i'll keep reading and looking at rad artwork.

Generally, I am happy. We need to take into consideration that oil prices have increased dramatically over the years and it's going to cost more to produce less for manufacturers nowadays.

Am I happy with the price increase for figures? NO.
Am I happy with the size decrease? doesn't really bother me too much.
Am I happy with the quality decrease? NO.
Do I enjoy the cartoons, video games and comics? Yes
Will I continue to by the toys? Yes

so overall...I am happy with the state of Transformers. I am concerned with the cost cutting and price increasing...but what else am I going to do? I love this hobby

I voted an unequivocal NO.

While yes, poor distribution is at the head of the list as I go from store to store seeing either empty or BB cluttered pegs, the Vulcan Science Consulate has determined that this should be blamed on the retailers and not Hasbro. I don't know which party is truly responsible, but it is a source of great unhappiness nonetheless.

This could be swallowed with a really strong chaser if the other negative elements were not present as well. These have already been discussed to death, so I will go on about my new pet peeve: Bot Shots. While I have no beef with anyone who enjoys these things, I have to believe that a majority of the fandom would prefer main line offerings to these things. And the pegs are absolutely cluttered with them. Huge swaths of space that used to be reserved for Deluxes have been annexed by the munchkin bots. I have to ask WHY these tiny game pieces (and that's what they are too) weren't relegated to the Bakugan/Duel Masters/Beyblade etc isle with the rest of this crap instead of taking up space in the ACTION FIGURE isle. These do not follow the basic definition of action figure at all. I mean, I guess one could technically say that them springing into bot-form (term loosely used) could be considered "action", but that's not what an action figure is all about.

And if they simply MUST place these in the action figure section, why not a tiny one or two peg place like they used to do with legends? Why so darn many pegs devoted to these?

It's gotten like in the movie Rocky 3 (or was it 4?) where Rocky got so popular that he got over commercialized and the quality of his training and hence performance got ridiculously soft. Hasbro has seriously deviated from the very spirit and essence that made Transformers what they are over the years. Soon, the only thing that will be left will be the character identities with no actual transforming Transformers to be found.

This began during the initial movie line, where they started to stick "other stuff" in with the real Transformers. Unleashed plastic statues, those transforming movie cameras and other handheld things that had no bot modes, and continued with "Power Bots" (my cat just sprayed my Power Bot Optimus the other day which I use as a doorstop Having gotten him for free. The CAT doesn't even like it!), Robot Heroes, and RPMS. Every non-transforming novelty toy line subtracts from the main line, and THAT'S where the plastic that's not going into actual Transformer figures is going. And that's where all the shelf space is going too.

Somebody thought too far out of the box in that Hasbro board room and it's ruining the line. Someone needs to jump back into the box and get back to the basics, to that which made these toys great back in the day.

Rant finished.

Time for the sarcastic rebuffs now...

Cobalt Prime wrote:I voted an unequivocal NO.

While yes, poor distribution is at the head of the list as I go from store to store seeing either empty or BB cluttered pegs, the Vulcan Science Consulate has determined that this should be blamed on the retailers and not Hasbro. I don't know which party is truly responsible, but it is a source of great unhappiness nonetheless.

This could be swallowed with a really strong chaser if the other negative elements were not present as well. These have already been discussed to death, so I will go on about my new pet peeve: Bot Shots. While I have no beef with anyone who enjoys these things, I have to believe that a majority of the fandom would prefer main line offerings to these things. And the pegs are absolutely cluttered with them. Huge swaths of space that used to be reserved for Deluxes have been annexed by the munchkin bots. I have to ask WHY these tiny game pieces (and that's what they are too) weren't relegated to the Bakugan/Duel Masters/Beyblade etc isle with the rest of this crap instead of taking up space in the ACTION FIGURE isle. These do not follow the basic definition of action figure at all. I mean, I guess one could technically say that them springing into bot-form (term loosely used) could be considered "action", but that's not what an action figure is all about.

And if they simply MUST place these in the action figure section, why not a tiny one or two peg place like they used to do with legends? Why so darn many pegs devoted to these?

It's gotten like in the movie Rocky 3 (or was it 4?) where Rocky got so popular that he got over commercialized and the quality of his training and hence performance got ridiculously soft. Hasbro has seriously deviated from the very spirit and essence that made Transformers what they are over the years. Soon, the only thing that will be left will be the character identities with no actual transforming Transformers to be found.

This began during the initial movie line, where they started to stick "other stuff" in with the real Transformers. Unleashed plastic statues, those transforming movie cameras and other handheld things that had no bot modes, and continued with "Power Bots" (my cat just sprayed my Power Bot Optimus the other day which I use as a doorstop Having gotten him for free. The CAT doesn't even like it!), Robot Heroes, and RPMS. Every prehensile line subtracts from the main line, and THAT'S where the plastic that's not going into actual Transformer figures is going. And that's where all the shelf space is going too.

Somebody thought too far out of the box in that Hasbro board room and it's ruining the line. Someone needs to jump back into the box and get back to the basics, to that which made these toys great back in the day.

Rant finished.

Time for the sarcastic rebuffs now...

Some good points. Bot Shots would be cool if found at the bottom of my Lucky Charms, not the action figure aisle where we should be finding Transformers!

i voted no for many reasons many of which have been well covered by others but heres the thing

i constantly hear "but collectors are a fraction of hasbros sales"

when in reality its more like "collectors are a fraction of hasbro sales but a huge chunk of TRANSFORMER RELATED SALES"
very few kids have the means to go out and buy ENTIRE WAVES OF FIGURES AS WELL AS MULTIPLES FOR ARMY BUILDING. let alone whole cases from online retailers who restock from hasbro.
its the same reason hasbro banned 3rd party stuff from botcon simply put we are a HUGE chunk of tf related sales contrary to popular belief.

its the main reason i voted no since it seems the collectors are not as important to hasbro as a higher profit margin on a $5 botshot with what 6 pieces?

but honestly im ok with that because the reality is there are many more options out there for collectors than in previous years.
they will continue to profit and i will continue to collect but it may not be hasbro related. truth is i havent purchased anything hastak since prime SW and that was at the beginning of the summer where as i spent 300 on giant/buildking but to each his own.



sorry for the rant everyone been a looong day

Good points, Alternator.

We, the adult TF fandom seem to be constantly downplayed, dismissed by Hasbro as a secondary or tertiary concern and therefore not important enough to sway policy. As if we are a few isolated nerds living in our parents basements.

The points you made about our buying entire waves as well as doubles is probably one of the strongest arguments and adds a hell of a lot of credibility to our validity as a consumer force. You have to wonder, given this train of thought how many parents-buying-for their-children homes each ONE of us adult collectors are worth given how much we do buy compared to the one or two toys the former buys per year. I would say certainly more than one. Some of us buy an entire neighborhood's worth of toys in a year's time.

As such, we may be a smaller percentage in the bigger picture when viewing pure numbers per capita, but each of us has a greater product purchasing density than the main target market. Am I making sense here?

I would love for there to be a national census of teen to adult TF collectors so Hasbro could see just how much we really do matter, and how our opinions should be welcomed, not ignored. Perhaps if everyone on all the TF websites could take part, it would at least be a start in determining how big a chunk of the market we really do comprise, especially given each person's individual buying habits.

Hasbro can't dismiss factual numbers.

Can they?

While adult fans buy a lot, there aren't that many adult fans compared to kid fans. I'm willing to bet the majority of young boys (pardon the sexism, but these toys are geared towards boys) have at least 1 Transformer toy, while the majority of adult men only have fond childhood memories (if that, even).
Not to mention buying anything off the secondary marked = zero money for Hasbro.

Noideaforaname wrote:While adult fans buy a lot, there aren't that many adult fans compared to kid fans. I'm willing to bet the majority of young boys (pardon the sexism, but these toys are geared towards boys) have at least 1 Transformer toy, while the majority of adult men only have fond childhood memories (if that, even).
Not to mention buying anything off the secondary marked = zero money for Hasbro.

Great point!! The figures on my shelf I've gotten from retail are completely outnumbered by the figures I've purchased on the secondary market (ebay/amazon/craigslist/tfw2005/seibertron/local comic shop).

bossman328 wrote:

Noideaforaname wrote:While adult fans buy a lot, there aren't that many adult fans compared to kid fans. I'm willing to bet the majority of young boys (pardon the sexism, but these toys are geared towards boys) have at least 1 Transformer toy, while the majority of adult men only have fond childhood memories (if that, even).
Not to mention buying anything off the secondary marked = zero money for Hasbro.

Great point!! The figures on my shelf I've gotten from retail are completely outnumbered by the figures I've purchased on the secondary market (ebay/amazon/craigslist/tfw2005/seibertron/local comic shop).

Maybe if distribution improved? Many say it's the stores not Hasbro. A couple months back I spoke to a store manager at WalMart about their empty TF section. He scanned the tags to show me they had nothing in stock and had been waiting for a while for the stock to come in. Said they had a meeting about it that day, said the store was pissed about the poor distribution.
I bet no moms are buying TFs for there kids from BBTS, TFsource, Robot Kingdom etc...so there is enough of collector contingent to sustain several online businesses. In my business we are constantly looking for ways to increase our share of the market, and then increase our share of each individual wallet. Doesnt seem like Hasbro really tries much of that as I constantly see different companies taking what should be Hasbro's share when all Hasbro has to do is get their act together...It's like they think they make enough money and are satisfied. Of course I dont know any of this, but that's how it seems.

alternator77 wrote:i constantly hear "but collectors are a fraction of hasbros sales"

when in reality its more like "collectors are a fraction of hasbro sales but a huge chunk of TRANSFORMER RELATED SALES"

This implies that you have some solid numbers. Please present them in order to prove your point.

RhA wrote:

alternator77 wrote:i constantly hear "but collectors are a fraction of hasbros sales"

when in reality its more like "collectors are a fraction of hasbro sales but a huge chunk of TRANSFORMER RELATED SALES"

This implies that you have some solid numbers. Please present them in order to prove your point.

fact is i dont have numbers but the flipside is no really does except for hasbro

the point i was trying to make is that while it is true that transformer collectors dont make up a big piece of the pie with respect to all hasbro brands they do make up a considerable portion of sales in respect to transformer related merchandise. in other words lets say for argument we only comprise 5 or 6 percent of total hasbro brand purchases when you narrow it to transforming robots that percentage jumps rather dramatically. and for the record if some has just 4 figures or even 2 with the intention of getting more guess what theyre collectors as well.

dont get me wrong this isnt a rant about" wahhhhh!! i want more classics give collectors what they want" on the contrary its about botshot collectors, prime collectors,cyberverse collectors unable to get stuff because its not available. its stuff like that which lowers my confidence not so much whats being produced. for example im not too fond of the FOC line but there are many who love them and thats great but when a budding collector cant find something they want at retail it is an example of ignoring the collector base who lets face it dont need a movie or tv show to buy this stuff up.



dont know if that made sense just got off a double shift need coffee



just had a thought what do you think would happen if every collector just stopped buying transformers all together im talking from retail, online,ebay,convention and even just didnt bother registering for conventions or showing up.

what effect do you think it would have on the brand as a whole?

I have confidence that Hasbro will continue to steer the ship in a direction that they think appeals to both collectors and their intended markets. Failing spectacularly along the journey. It really felt like we were coming to a sort mutual excitement between the two entities. Then behind the scenes job repositioning happens. Now, kinda feels like we're in some strange limbo to me. Who exactly did Hasbro test their ridiculous Bruticus packaging and pricetag on? At least a $40 mark up for the 3 boxes it comes in. That is inane. Why are we left in the dark on whatever Prime figures are coming stateside? Why are we being led by the nose on anything at this point? Botcon is normally a great place to get whatever answers you might be looking for or at least get a hint towards your answer. Not so anymore. The Classics Arcee we were teased with if we supported Prime Arcee, she was exactly that. A tease. They feel that this Arcee IS G1 Arcee. Nope! Buy our "now" stuff, maybe we'll get to your wants. That attitude needs to change. I would love to get back to the mutual respect we seemed to have not even two years ago. I can't find a single Airachnid in stores. A figure that most would agree is pretty bad. So where is she? Know what I CAN find though? A healthy selection of RID BB and Cliffjumper with a random Wheeljack for good measure. Oh, and let's not forget the Bot Shots. It's the only thing I can find in the TF brand on shelves with any sort of variety. I dunno, lots of disappointments have been building for me for awhile and it finally has just all kinda piled up. I want to buy figures I will enjoy. If only they would make them.

I needed a wishy-washy "maybe, sometimes.....but not really" option to cover my thinking. Being as over entitled and bratty as everyone else why wasn't I catered for?

The Company that gve me an MP Grimlock and RTS Jazz seems to have put a lot of it's talent, effort and who-gives-a-shit on vacation this year and next year doesn't look much better. Without importing too much flame from the other thread that upcoming Asian Brawn sums things up: Lazy-ass, piss poor and downright exploitative.

Honourable exceptions being the upcomming MPs.....as long as the damn things are built better than Craptimus Ankle-Spring.........