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High Command wrote:On that subject, what might be interesting would be to have alts with two of the same tactic. For instance a double strafe weapon with 1000xp strafe and 4000xp strafe, maybe with a high skill requirement to unlock the second strafe attack.
I'm sure Chompy would like to have even more bite...

Would indeed be awesome, but we tested much of this back in the Mkall days.

We found that doubling up the same tactic isn't possible as the code doesn't allow it somehow, although I was never given the details of why. We faced the same problem with triplechangers, although in this case it was because only 2 tactics appear to work at any one time so the first tactic bought became obsolete.

Back then we had looked at revamping the alt classes entirely based on battlefield function instead of alt shape, but it never really went anywhere as overhauling alt classes currently in use messes with the existing characters. I still have the googlesheet we made for it in my docs account.

I used to think stun weapons could cause stun, but they don't.
Seems like they should, some examples. There is stun in the game so maybe it could be done.
20 Megavolt Stun Rifle
Sonic-Stun Gun
Double Venom Laser
Electronic Pulse Stinger
Poisonous Paralyzer Fluid

On the same idea S.o.L. has about stun and to add in the third possible tactic, what about making a weapon do strafe? There are plenty of movies where someone strafe a crowd with a machine gun to provide cover fire. A shot gun, by it's own nature, is a strafe weapon as are grenades. Maybe there is a way to introduce tools like med or engineering kits for repair. I know this is the pipedream major coding issues Bun wanted to avoid unless it is easier than to do than I think for. If we went for the repair tool idea, intelligence and skill would be needed instead of firepower. If avoid does get reworked maybe some sort of add on could duplicate the effect and have speed and courage as the requirements. The bonus of such ideas is you can change around an alt mode by temporarily adding another tactic in a different format. Obviously the balance is if you go for the repair kit or avoid add on, you couldn't use a weapon.

Top post updated to here.

Proposal:

Remove the Alt Rotation

The rotation was introduced as a way to create scarcity for certain alt modes and to an extent "keep things fresh" but given that
A ) the Bots rotation has been broken for months
B ) it was speed up to rotate every 3 days anyways &
C ) Burn has the ability to create, activate, & deactivate Alts at will
I think perhaps the time has come to just set Each factions current crop of Alts to "Core" and not bother with rotations any more.
Or
At the very least set all the Commons to Core and let a few rares rotate for the "freshness factor".

sumowrestler wrote:On the same idea S.o.L. has about stun and to add in the third possible tactic, what about making a weapon do strafe? There are plenty of movies where someone strafe a crowd with a machine gun to provide cover fire. A shot gun, by it's own nature, is a strafe weapon as are grenades. Maybe there is a way to introduce tools like med or engineering kits for repair. I know this is the pipedream major coding issues Bun wanted to avoid unless it is easier than to do than I think for. If we went for the repair tool idea, intelligence and skill would be needed instead of firepower. If avoid does get reworked maybe some sort of add on could duplicate the effect and have speed and courage as the requirements. The bonus of such ideas is you can change around an alt mode by temporarily adding another tactic in a different format. Obviously the balance is if you go for the repair kit or avoid add on, you couldn't use a weapon.

Those are CC/spread weapons. Strafe refers to firing on the move, like when a plane fires it's machine guns at ground based targets in a fly over (or a strafing run). That's the reason the tactic works on alt modes, jets or cars firing as they fly/drive by.

I don't want to see the alt mode rotation moved.

I think it needs to be rebuilt. It has merit. Prior to it breaking for the bots it did it's thing, and that's what it was, a thing. We need to make it relevant, we need to make the alts more relevant.

Do we remove the classifications and just have X amount of alts available at a time until things rotate (more than every three days). Maybe once a month?


Let me throw this out there, alts are alts. They're monotone little pixels. What if we remove the one colour and make some multi-colour? Instead of stripping the colours away, have a small amount of alts that are fully coloured. We make these rare.

To remove the rotation requires a coding change, instead of decimating, why not rebuild it into something better?

I'm not in favour of different styles of alt images, if some are changed I think all of them should be, but I'm definitely in favour of modernising all the images we use.

Still technically single (custom) colour, but are you thinking more like this?









It's creating more of them that's the issue as these were created 6+ years ago.

Psychout wrote:Still technically single (custom) colour, but are you thinking more like this?

Yep.

Having them rare would give people more reason to keep an eye on the alt mode rotation. At the moment (if it were working), what's the incentive to keep an eye on it?

Burn wrote:Having them rare would give people more reason to keep an eye on the alt mode rotation. At the moment (if it were working), what's the incentive to keep an eye on it?

None. To make them worthwhile, the best-known canon alts (leader characters especially) should be the rare ones and the background seeker peasants and generic autobot car repaints should be core. The way we have it currently is just weird.

IMO, aesthetically speaking, mixing full colour and the traditional alt style would still look naff though.

Pipe Dream: Buying alts

Playing off something Psych just said, what if the tactics tied into classes, like leader class alts had more tactics than peasant alts? This plays into BunBun's size idea, but should be significantly easier to implement.

Action masters remain tacticless (unless we can add a category for them) Minibots get (sadly) one tactic, and deluxe get two, voyagers 2 or 3, leaders 3 or 4.

Unless we can get more tactics implemented, even if they're basically just recolors of existing tactics (IE fireblast a reskin of ram using fp instead of str)

Absolute Zero wrote:This plays into BunBun's size idea

Nobody outside RDD knows what this is.
It falls squarely into the pipedream/code-heavy category.
When Burn's done being pissed with me I'll send that his way. #HalfPastNever

Proposal for (presumedly) minor change;
- Wouldn't mind seeing some more or better quality weapons to bridge the upgrade gap between 9/4 acid rainmakers or 10/3 gattling guns and the 10/10 weapons.

Other random ideas;
- Having become accustomed to other gaming systems over the years, one concept I found confusing upon returning to this game was I needed to upgrade STR to increase damage of an energy projectile weapon. Similarly, certain melee weapons require FPR to use.
If one had a magic button of coding and could separate weapons into classes;
~ Melee and thrown weapons would require points in STR &/or SKL to equip, with each point in STR increasing damage. A Magnus Hammer would become 10 STR / 10 SKL for example. Great for Rammers
~ Ranged weapons would require points in FPR &/or SKL to equip, with each point in FPR increasing damage. Great for Strafers
~ Potential new style of weapon - Weapons of Engineering - would require points in INT &/or SKL to equip, with each point in INT increasing damage. Could have stuff like Proxy Mines, Remote Detonators, Electromagnetic Disruptors, Remote Hacking and Nanites. Great for Repairers

- We have alt rotations, perhaps weapon or armor rotations? Rare weapons/armor would have better stats.

- We have missions that reward armor, perhaps missions that grant a faction weapons or alts?

- Single tactic alts - Was also going to suggest two of same tactic, but since it has already been suggested, perhaps increasing hit percentage of the single tactic? If it's currently 3% chance per point invested, perhaps increase to 5% per point - for a max of 50% chance to hit


White_Noise

Bun-Bun wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:This plays into BunBun's size idea

Nobody outside RDD knows what this is.
It falls squarely into the pipedream/code-heavy category.
When Burn's done being pissed with me I'll send that his way. #HalfPastNever

Oh, my bad dude. I thought you had already posted that.

Bun-Bun wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:This plays into BunBun's size idea

Nobody outside RDD knows what this is.
It falls squarely into the pipedream/code-heavy category.
When Burn's done being pissed with me I'll send that his way. #HalfPastNever

See, you just keep poking and pushing me.

So here's my reaction to you constantly pushing and bullying. Have a warning.

This is what I came into this thread to originally post ...

WEAPONS REFORM
(Based on everything that's been discussed, plus a couple of other things)

Look into dormant coding (Ryan)
• Damage type - Physical / Energy / Flame / Heat / Acid - Currently only Physical works
• Weapon Class - Class I -> V - Currently only Class I works
• See if it can be determined what they were supposed to do, and see if they can be made to work.
(Maybe damage types can be coded to give bonus damage depending on alt type, e.g. Acid weapons give a bonus if equipped by Monster class alts)

Reclassify weapons (Player volunteers)
• Determine Min/Max levels for each weapon
• Determine minimum requirements for each weapon

Coding required (Ryan)
• Change to thresholds between labels based on new ranges
• Add more "minimum requirements" to equip weapons based on stats AND level

Changes to be made (Staff)
• Min/Max levels to be set
• Minimum requirements to be set

None of this of course is set in stone, it's essentially a summary of what's been discussed (and I may have missed things).

Just two questions, not sure how possible they are, or even needed.

Is it possible to add more weapon slots? Most guys have more than one in G1.

Is it possible to bring Minicons back? Not saying they should be or need be, more wondering if the code is still there or not.

Oh, something I just thought of, but would need coding, the first bank of cybertron/investment. Something to do with energon besides BBG. Drop energon in and it accumilates at x% over time. That would require code, but I think WPI would be a good backer for the bank. Could see our favourite evil corporation branching into banking...

Absolute Zero wrote:Is it possible to add more weapon slots? Most guys have more than one in G1.

Is it possible to bring Minicons back? Not saying they should be or need be, more wondering if the code is still there or not.

The extra weapon slots were a part of V2 that, if I recall correctly, Mogwai Prime had partially developed.

The minicons ... I don't know how much code is there but there must be some as I have accidentally attached a (non-functioning) minicon just by editing a character.

Oh, something I just thought of, but would need coding, the first bank of cybertron/investment. Something to do with energon besides BBG. Drop energon in and it accumilates at x% over time. That would require code, but I think WPI would be a good backer for the bank. Could see our favourite evil corporation branching into banking...

Definitely a coding thing. There was plans for an entire economy at one stage.

Burn wrote:

Absolute Zero wrote:Oh, something I just thought of, but would need coding, the first bank of cybertron/investment. Something to do with energon besides BBG. Drop energon in and it accumilates at x% over time. That would require code, but I think WPI would be a good backer for the bank. Could see our favourite evil corporation branching into banking...

Definitely a coding thing. There was plans for an entire economy at one stage.

Love this idea, but a better use of Energon could be to unlock or permanently purchase speciality/specific altmodes?

I know there was code for people to have alts permanently attached to their account at one point, don't know if it still exists though and the system for it would need to be created, but it was done for the old-school alt-bounty hunts.

Now that could be a job for WarPorn Industries!

Triple changers...


No wait! Hear me out!

We should already have an (unused) image of Overcharge in the database:

Pretty snazzy right?

We know new alt classes can be added (semi) successfully (sorry bots).

Why not add a new alt classes which work just like the ones we have now except for the alt mode image being like the one above displaying 2 modes?

For instance:
Assault Triple Changer
Ram 5000 (5 skill)
Strafe 5000 (5 intel)

So far as coding goes it is just like any other alt but it adds some more character variety and a bit more visual interest with the alt image. The only problem I preceive is being able to use the custom colour function so the two colours of the Overcharge alt above might have to be sacrificed for a single colour.

Conventional wisdom says that stats which have a higher XP requirement will use those stats more frequently than lower XP ones. Having both tactics with a high XP outlay would make the alt quite deadly but at a much higher XP cost than normal.

Of course this could be expanded to use other tactic combinations (except avoid because ugh).
For instance:
Rescue triple changer (ram/repair)
Evacuation triple changer (repair strafe)
Guardian beast triple changer (bite/repair)
Savage beast triple changer (bite/ram)
Or y'know cooler sounding names but you get the idea.

Requirements:
1 Phasewing to create fun new alts
1 Burn to create alt class(es)
0 new codings
Many funs.

What about creating alt mode classes that have more than two tactics?

I was bouncing this off Psychout earlier actually.

For triple changers I'd like to see each alt mode with it's own alt image and a tactic attached to each one. I'm not sure how much coding that would take though.

Burn wrote:What about creating alt mode classes that have more than two tactics?

I was bouncing this off Psychout earlier actually.

For triple changers I'd like to see each alt mode with it's own alt image and a tactic attached to each one. I'm not sure how much coding that would take though.

Like 2 alts each with a single tactic? That's about the only good use for single tactic alts I can think of.

I thought the argument against triple changers was coding it had been tried and failed.

As for your first point, I'm all for alts with more tactics. Once again I thought that had been tried and failed long ago so kept my suggestion as simple as poss.

High Command wrote:Like 2 alts each with a single tactic? That's about the only good use for single tactic alts I can think of.

Or you know ...
Blitzwing transforms into a tank and rams Wheelie
Blitzwing transforms into a tank and strafes Wheelie
Blitzwing transforms into a jet and strafes Wheelie
Bliztwing transformers into a jet and avoids Wheelie's rhymes ...

I thought the argument against triple changers was coding it had been tried and failed.

It may have been tried, I have no idea.

As for your first point, I'm all for alts with more tactics. Once again I thought that had been tried and failed long ago so kept my suggestion as simple as poss.

Psychout thought for certain you would have noticed it the other day. He gives you too much credit. You're probably more Watson to Nem's Holmes.

Burn wrote:

High Command wrote:Like 2 alts each with a single tactic? That's about the only good use for single tactic alts I can think of.

Or you know ...
Blitzwing transforms into a tank and rams Wheelie
Blitzwing transforms into a tank and strafes Wheelie
Blitzwing transforms into a jet and strafes Wheelie
Bliztwing transformers into a jet and avoids Wheelie's rhymes ...

I thought the argument against triple changers was coding it had been tried and failed.

I like that idea

Burn wrote:

High Command wrote:Like 2 alts each with a single tactic? That's about the only good use for single tactic alts I can think of.

Or you know ...
Blitzwing transforms into a tank and rams Wheelie
Blitzwing transforms into a tank and strafes Wheelie
Blitzwing transforms into a jet and strafes Wheelie
Bliztwing transformers into a jet and avoids Wheelie's rhymes ...

I thought the argument against triple changers was coding it had been tried and failed.

It may have been tried, I have no idea.

As for your first point, I'm all for alts with more tactics. Once again I thought that had been tried and failed long ago so kept my suggestion as simple as poss.

Psychout thought for certain you would have noticed it the other day. He gives you too much credit. You're probably more Watson to Nem's Holmes.

Your new tank class can do ot all? Seen the new class added but only seen it repair yet iirc. Haven't been paying super attention this last week because holidays.

I'd say its been pretty successful.

As Burn said above though, until we can solve the level 12+ problem it'll have to remain a test for now, and even if they did go live they'll be a liability at any level below about 8 or 9.

The triplechanger thing would need programming to be able to use different alt modes to attack, but it all depends on how thorough we want to be. Do we want another half-assed change (like the Targetmasters just being renamed guns) or do we want to try and get these in properly now we know it's a possibility?

Edit: might also solve the silly situation we currently have that a cockatoo alt is the best solid level 11 repair combination the cons have.