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No need to watch the WCBS vid, Comicsgate is trash. I'm not surprised that movement continues to try to expand into other fan communities.

AcademyofDrX wrote:No need to watch the WCBS vid, Comicsgate is trash. I'm not surprised that movement continues to try to expand into other fan communities.

To be fair I don't watch any video like that as they are all examples of the blind leading the blind. The extreme left rose to combat the extreme right yet neither see that they are pretty much a mirror of the other one. Big problem is that none of this is really affecting what the article is about. Hasbro need to develop solutions to problems about being relevant in an increasingly digital age. Even the star wars toy lines of yesterday would have faced hefty competition if released today. Times change and we must change with them.

Cost Hasbro pays for the Star wars franchise fee. Just another rant link:

http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2018- ... s-license/

https://corporate.findlaw.com/contracts ... -inc2.html

https://corporate.findlaw.com/contracts ... o-inc.html

http://archive.fortune.com/magazines/fo ... /index.htm

https://www.awn.com/news/hasbro-and-luc ... rough-2018

https://variety.com/2013/biz/news/hasbr ... 200566115/

https://seekingalpha.com/news/2951666-d ... s-products

https://www.forbes.com/sites/greatspecu ... 0e2ed03d6e

Reputable sources I guess

Some revisions more than likely has been applied since Disney took over Lucasfilm

Edit:

" Usually, a licensee only pays royalty fees once the minimum guarantee has been paid off. So if Hasbro paid $250 million on release of Episode I they would only pay royalties once their Star Wars toys net sales exceed $250 million for that Episode.

And these royalties were increased to 20% of net sales in 2015.

Hasbro’s Star Wars license for the past 21 years cost them a total of at least $730 million plus at first 18% and then 20% of Star Wars toys net sales.

Hasbro’s operating margin in the past years was between 11.5 – 15.5%, in 2018 it’s a little more than 12%. Which simply means one thing: first Lucasfilm and now Disney make MORE money off the Star Wars toys Hasbro makes than Hasbro themselves.

Please think about this for a while.

Now, a more common royalty fee in the toy industry is something like 10%. In other words: the Star Wars toy license is the most expensive toy license out there. Which is why only a big player, a global toy company such as Hasbro, is able to afford it."


And finally some other interesting points from the agreement:

Lucasfilm/Disney need to approve everything
Should Hasbro fail to meet agreed upon quality standards Lucasfilm/Disney can order Hasbro to stop production of said toy at once!
Hasbro needs to provide Lucasfilm/Disney with samples of toys on a regular basis
Lucasfilm and Hasbro agreed upon a minimum sales level. The exact level has been redacted, but it’s very interesting to know that such a minimum sales level does exist. Any consequences as to what happens if Hasbro failed to meet that projected sales level have been redacted, but it’s safe to assume that Hasbro would face consequences
Hasbro is required to exercise reasonable commercial efforts to guarantee minimum sales levels are met and exceeded (they need to advertise, for example)
Hasbro has to provide Lucasfilm/Disney with detailed and accurate records, Lucasfilm/Disney may also, not more than once a year and with advance notice, perform an audit and check all the numbers at Hasbro headquarters
Hasbro can’t sublicense anything without explicit approval by Lucasfilm/Disney
And finally, which may be of interest soon, there’s also a paragraph about China in the agreement. The section about China states that should China ever lose its most favored nations trade status and therefore render performance impractical or even impossible then both parties will get together and discuss any appropriate actions that can be taken. So if trade tariffs of 20% or more should be imposed upon toys made in China, you can expect Hasbro and Lucasfilm/Disney to meet in a panic room
One final word: the licensing agreement is from 1997. Most likely it was altered, most certainly amended and changed in the meantime, but it was never really fully renegotiated, as far as I understand it, it was merely extended several times. So while some details may and probably will be different now I believe that most of the things written in that agreement are still valid today in very similar form.

Now, in light of all this… what do you think? Do you think the Star Wars license is worth it? Have you developed some more understanding as to why Hasbro does things the way they do? Remember, Disney is the one who makes most of the money here. Hasbro owns nothing when it comes to Star Wars. In light of this it makes perhaps a lot of sense not to invest too much money in all new sculpts for a relaunched TVC with uncertain performance at retail and most likely much lower margins and instead to use the sculpts they already have and put them on a Vintage Card. The Black Series has the advantage of having a higher MSRP/wholesale price and therefore, most likely, higher profit margins, provided that manufacturing costs are about the same for TVC and Black Series.

And this also tells us one more thing: other than maybe Hasbro, Mattel, Lego or Bandai no niche company such as Neca, Mezco etc could ever afford the exclusive, worldwide Star Wars license, Mafex can afford it because it’s neither exclusive nor worldwide. Consider this next time you want someone else to take over the SA 3.75 inch Star Wars line. The license is more expensive than what these companies probably earn in a year. It would bankrupt them.

Only if Star Wars was dead, truly dead and no longer financially successful, some small company might be able to afford the exclusive, worldwide license. But I suppose no one here wants that. We should all wish and hope that Star Wars will thrive and that Hasbro is willing and able to pay the enormous license fees and royalties in the future.


So in summary:

Hasbro needs to pay a minimum guarantee to Lucasfilm/Disney, over the past two decades that guarantee amounts to at least $730 million Hasbro also has to pay royalties. Royalties were 18% for a long time, but then in 2015 Disney increased the rate to 20% of net sales, which is higher than Hasbro’s operating margin which is usually something between 11-15%

All things considered Hasbro has paid well over $1 billion to Lucasfilm/Disney in the last 21 years. Probably about $1.5 billion

Lucasfilm/Disney is the owner of everything Hasbro designs and creates for Star Wars

Update: the royalty rate for the prequel period was corrected, originally it said that the rate was north of 15%, so 15% or more (since this is all the info I found), the Netflix documentary “The toys that made us” gives the rate as 18%, the text and some numbers have been updated accordingly

So yup! SW is causing a big bad red instead of black in Hasbro's bottom line. Nope, it's not really affecting Hasbro at all. Just a few NPCs getting the pink slip

Remember folks! This only applies to Star Wars and not TF but heck, Hasbro is footing the costs and Disney is laughing all the way to the bank (last I heard, NOT anymore!)

http://www.jeditemplearchives.com/2018- ... s-license/

To quote:

"Given a royalty fee of 18% and then 20% (since 2015) accumulated royalty fees for the period between 2010 – 2015 may amount to about $260 million. But then there are the royalty fees for the time between 1997 and 2010, when Star Wars toys were probably a lot hotter than in the period between movies, when no new movies were on the horizon and only The Clone Wars was on TV. So my very, very rough estimate is that Hasbro may have paid about $1.5 billion in minimum guarantees and royalties to Lucasfilm in the past 21 years."


"These are a lot of details. All you need to remember is that the Star Wars toy license is insanely expensive and that Lucasfilm/Disney most likely make more money off the toys Hasbro makes than Hasbro, if we take the operating margin as an indicator of how much money Hasbro does keep in the end"

"This might explain the lack of accessories in recent years, the sometimes unpainted weapons and it might also explain why there are so many exclusives for the Black Series, since many exclusives have a higher MSRP (and wholesale price) and therefore maybe a higher profit margin."

" It may also explain why Hasbro loves the Black Series, since it will probably cost roughly the same to make as TVC but has a much higher MSRP and therefore wholesale price, meaning a higher profit margin.

"Hasbro needs to pay a lot of money to Disney and it’s quite likely that back in 2012/13 TVC was just no longer viable. It may also explain why there are so many repacks in the relaunched line to keep costs down. And it most certainly explains why Star Wars toys are so expensive.

"It’s not because Hasbro is too greedy, it’s because Lucasfilm/Disney demand a very high price for the privilege of making Star Wars toys.""

"Oh, that Barge? 20% goes to Disney. That‘s $100 for each and every Barge sold. Disney will be happy.
And that covers the financial aspect of the licensing agreement."

No wonder Hasbro is HURTING!

Nope. Their SW issues aren't at all affecting their other lines. Nope.

Hasbro have been hit by the "Get Woke, Go Broke" cancer in the Star Wars arm. Unless Lucasfilm get some chemotherapy, it may seriously damage Hasbro. And bofore that happen, better cut off that limb and tranfers that hot potato to Mattel or something.

-Kanrabat- wrote:Hasbro have been hit by the "Get Woke, Go Broke" cancer in the Star Wars arm. Unless Lucasfilm get some chemotherapy, it may seriously damage Hasbro. And bofore that happen, better cut off that limb and tranfers that hot potato to Mattel or something.

AcademyofDrX wrote:

Top tier counter argument.
This is SURE to convince me of... something...

You don't want a good faith discussion, you want a thoughtless debate. I'm not here for flame wars.

I gave your comment more consideration than it deserved just by reading it.

Star Wars is an expensive license? Of course it is. Recent underperformance of the Star Wars brand hurt Hasbro's bottom line? They have said as much in previous earnings reports. The job reductions and organizational restructuring are in response to negative business pressure? Obviously, that's how these things happen.

There's a coordinated effort by corporate management and creators to promote left-wing ideology, and in response a silent majority of apolitical individuals have banded together and are so significant a commercial force that they can snap their fingers and bring companies to their knees? That the broader economic trends that advisor firms document for their investors are "fake news" and the real cause is rabid internet fandom?

That's absurd on its face. I could spend time challenging the assumptions in the Star Wars backlash--like that TLJ's box office success and Solo's failure prove that TLJ is the problem!--but that doesn't have anything to do with anything.

Both of you are desperate to devolve every thread into the culture war du jour and I don't want a part of it. You're not here to analyze or discuss the financial results, you just want to spread internet hate.

To be fair, whilst TLJ was a financial success overall, it still considerably underperformed compared to what Disney wanted out of it, and Solo's failure could be linked directly to people being soured on Star Wars by TLJ (especially in China, where it was so hated that they removed Star Wars from the title of the Solo movie in an attempt to avoid the association with such a disliked movie). Regardless of your stance on these matters, there's little doubt that TLJ was not a resounding success.

I mean, personally I'm of the opinion that Star Wars really should have been left well alone and that the story was pretty much well enough wrapped up as it was. The Prequels, love them or hate them, at least set the scene for the OT. The Sequels were just extra guff tacked on to the end of an already complete story. If Disney wanted to release new SW stuff they could have just released the original un-doctored cuts of the OT like people have wanted for years now and they'd have been rolling in money. The recent trend of rebooting/making sequels to old properties that didn't need them needs to stop, as does the trend of calling anyone who doesn't like it an "-ist". It didn't work with Ghostbusters, it didn't work with Ocean's 8 (incidentally my mum went to see it for a laugh and she described it as the worst movie she had ever watched), it didn't work with The Predator and it isn't working with Star Wars.

Most of what you said is nonsense, but more importantly, none of this has anyone anything to do with Transformers!

Black Hat wrote:as does the trend of calling anyone who doesn't like it an "-ist".

Hahaha, you almost had me. You right-wing culture warriors, you can't help yourselves. You want to pretend that you care about the property or the fandom, but at the end of the day, you're not fooling anyone.

I'm not going to convince you that your poisonous ideology and behavior are a problem. I'm not going to get you banned off of the internet.

I am going to say loudly and repeatedly, this trash does not belong here.

AcademyofDrX wrote:Most of what you said is nonsense, but more importantly, none of this has anyone anything to do with Transformers!

Black Hat wrote:as does the trend of calling anyone who doesn't like it an "-ist".

Hahaha, you almost had me. You right-wing culture warriors, you can't help yourselves. You want to pretend that you care about the property or the fandom, but at the end of the day, you're not fooling anyone.

I'm not going to convince you that your poisonous ideology and behavior are a problem. I'm not going to get you banned off of the internet.

I am going to say loudly and repeatedly, this trash does not belong here.

So apparently anyone who thinks that blaming the failings of a piece of media on the audience being bigots or whatever is a bad idea are "right wing culture warriors". OK then. Also I like how you suggest that anyone with right-wing beliefs is incapabale of caring about a property or fandom, that's real nice.

FWIW all I was saying was that TLJ not performing as well as it could have may have contributed to Hasbro's troubles (as may the other movie with "The Last" in its title with toys made by Hasbro, The Last Knight, which also underpeformed and also shelfwarmed like crazy). I'm not attacking anyone who liked the film- if you like it then that's fine at the end of the day- but I believe it is both relevant and true that TLJ toys underperforming for whatever reason did not help Hasbro's financial stability.

If you're upset by what I had to say then I apologize, but I can assure you that was not my intent and I'm a little puzzled by your reaction.

A leftist will take any critiscism as "hate speech". It show cultist mentality. Take just a look at #walkaway on YouTube. People are begining to be tired of the Far Left dictatorship and authoritarism.

Women, blacks, gays, trans, many are speacking out against what the Left have become. I was a leftist myself most of my life and I'm appaled at what "my side" have become.

"Get woke go broke" have NOTHING to do about "hate". It's about not pushing an agenda and RESPECTING the consumer and his concerns. That's it.

Actually on hasbro's account, the last knight was a success, it's been pointed out before that hasbro makes its money when the retailer buys the stock.

The big thing hurting hasbro is just the changing of the times. Let's just keep things on Transformers.

Fandom isn't limited to any political perspective, there should be space for everyone. And everyone's beliefs inform their relationship with the property.

What I take issue with is using media properties as a proxy fight in a larger cultural war. There's an entire cottage industry around that now, and they use Twitter to amplify the message. If you don't know what I'm talking about, that's great. If you do, then you know what's going on and you're being intentionally obtuse in bad faith.

-Kanrabat- wrote:"Get woke go broke" have NOTHING to do about "hate". It's about not pushing an agenda and RESPECTING the consumer and his concerns. That's it.

"Get woke go broke" IS an agenda, and it's trash. But I don't want to debate alt-right talking points here. You want to complain about the far left, go make a thread on Breitbart, it has no place here.

Whatever, glad I learned about the mute button

AcademyofDrX wrote:Whatever, glad I learned about the mute button

It's a fantastic feature, just a heads up, they'll still show up if someone quotes them.

But yeah ... let's leave political leanings out of this and stick to facts.

EDIT: Never mind, bad timing on my part.

Putting a spoiler tag over content which goes against a staff members direction to get away from is still going against the direction of staff. Have a warning.

AcademyofDrX wrote:Fandom isn't limited to any political perspective, there should be space for everyone. And everyone's beliefs inform their relationship with the property.

What I take issue with is using media properties as a proxy fight in a larger cultural war. There's an entire cottage industry around that now, and they use Twitter to amplify the message. If you don't know what I'm talking about, that's great. If you do, then you know what's going on and you're being intentionally obtuse in bad faith.

That's 100% the point I was trying to make. Sure, you cannot please everyone, but pandering ONLY to the vocal minority is BAD business. And when there is criticism, don't attack the fans. The Ghostbusters 2016 fiasco is one example. And some of those extreme vocal staff that attack the fans are finally getting fired.

One thing I noticed for all these years as a transformers fan is that our community can be VERY vocal and "toxic". I wasn't around when the 2007 movie was first announced but oh boy, it must have been glorious! Anyway, we can all agree that most Transformers Bay movies are complete trash. But they are mindless fun trash. No political agenda was pushed. Ever. Plus when very mean criticisms was thrown at Hasbro, no Hasbro staff EVER attacked the fan. No matter what. Results?
MONEY.
Billions in profits and a franchise that was revitalised.
People pay money to enter a fantasy world to escape reality's bullcrap. No matter what "side" we are on. We want to escape and have fun not to be lectured on. It's something Hasbro have never forgotten. And I'm very, very grateful to them for that.

Hope that the Disney tendrils will stop chocking Hasbro. Usually, when a branch make a corporation lose money, they cut it off mecilessly. Contracts shenanigans may prevent Hasbro from escaping for now. Still, I'm confident. Hasbro went through worse crisises than this.

-Kanrabat- wrote:I wasn't around when the 2007 movie was first announced but oh boy, it must have been glorious!

I think the biggest vilest person at the time was Don Murphy himself who constantly attacked fans who spoke negatively of the movie, well before it was out.

Think of him as a precursor to the 2016 Ghostbusters cast and crew and how they reacted to "fans".

Burn wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:I wasn't around when the 2007 movie was first announced but oh boy, it must have been glorious!

I think the biggest vilest person at the time was Don Murphy himself who constantly attacked fans who spoke negatively of the movie, well before it was out.

Think of him as a precursor to the 2016 Ghostbusters cast and crew and how they reacted to "fans".

Dear lord...

-Kanrabat- wrote:A leftist will take any critiscism as "hate speech". It show cultist mentality. Take just a look at #walkaway on YouTube. People are begining to be tired of the Far Left dictatorship and authoritarism.

Women, blacks, gays, trans, many are speacking out against what the Left have become. I was a leftist myself most of my life and I'm appaled at what "my side" have become.

"Get woke go broke" have NOTHING to do about "hate". It's about not pushing an agenda and RESPECTING the consumer and his concerns. That's it.

All I see is the right wing is becoming far more authoritarianism than it's ever been but that is what it is and has been it at it's very core since the beginning.

Also people critical of the sexism, racism, and the bigotry in geek culture are NOT pushing an agenda they're pointing out things those hateful elements and trying to get rid of those bigots and make why things like black/yellow/red face is racist.

The whole "get woke go broke" thing is about the future of these brands and trying to attract NEW younger fans (who are more socially liberal) because the Transformers, Star Wars, Star Trek, G.I. Joe, and etc NEED new and younger fans the same old 40+ year fans who in about 10-40 years will start dying off.

That is not a threat that is a biological fact, I'm 40 and my health is already to starting to go down and there is NO pills or surgery that can make it better. So I'm going to have start cutting down the media I consume because I need that money to pay for medical bills (and you can bet your ass that I'm 100% for MEDICARE FOR ALL) and my Dad who is in his late 70s while he can still get around pretty good (sometimes even better than me), and I live in the constant worry every day that this will be the day where I have to put him into nursing home, because it can be that fast. I lived and saw it with my grandmother. I hate it but that is the world we live in.


So you will pardon me if I don't give a damn what some idiots on Twitter say about Star Wars Episode VIII: The Last Jedi "having an agenda" which is code for "we're conservative morons that hate everyone who isn't white, cis-gendered and straight" and frankly the group think that you and the rest of the right-wing are always bitching about is called fandom.

More fandoms are closer to right-wing group think than the left wing and that is the truth.

Cyberstrike wrote:More fandoms are closer to right-wing group think than the left wing and that is the truth.

How in the hell is the "right" is "more authoritarian than ever?" Who advocate to label everything as "hate speech"? Who actually passes actual LAWS that are so broadly written that people get arrested for stating facts and opinions? Just take the James Damore case. He wrote a paper that would be considered pretty liberal just a few years ago and he was FIRED and DIABOLISED for it. I ask again. WHO is the authoritarians here?

Let's say 0 is the "far right" and 100 is the "far left". 50 being the center.
0 to 10 are the Right crazies, while 90 to 100 is the Left crazies. That leave 80 units. For the far left, the 0 to 90 numbers IS the "far right". There is no in-between. Think for a second. That's exactly what you have just said. The Left think they have a HOLY MISSION and only THEY know the truth. The far right (a small fringe mind you) the right, the center right, the center, the center left, and even the classical left are the ENNEMY.

Since the far left is in power and are the loudest, big corps thing everybody is them. So they try to pander to 10% of the population instead of pandering to the majority. Furthermore, most have no interest in spending money. Only to push an ideology.

So that bring us to the "agenda". I badly worded it. There's no "agenda". There's something worse. An ideology so strong, that it's some sort of a new religion. And when a writer is strongly religious, it get in the way into writing good stories and good characters. All we have left is empty shells. Tokens and mouthpieces. NO MATTER FROM THE LEFT, RIGHT, UP, DOWN, CENTER, PEOPLE WANT GOOD STORIES AND CHARACTERS. But dare to criticize and you are called a "bigot" and a "far right". No matter where you stand politically. We have been told that "if you don't like it, don't buy it". And we listened. Then they wonder why their products are failing.

Pandering to the extremists (of any sides) and leaving everyone else in the dust is BAD BUSINESS. THAT'S where "get woke go broke" come from.

There is a whole scientific report that you can view here:
https://static1.squarespace.com/static/ ... port-2.pdf


You may not want to read the whole thing so have a TlDr video:

That thumbnail is sadly misleading.....

The "new" generation is not in the far Left. Far from it. Like most people, they are all over the spectrum and only a few are on both extremes. So if you say that everybody who don't agree with you on everything is "right wing", where does that place you? Please think about it.