Mega Zarak wrote:Abilor wrote:Liege Evilmus wrote:Mega Zarak wrote:Abilor wrote:Liege Evilmus wrote:Strike going on "FOREVER" it may be time to become a scab.
I understand the work is hard for say construction workers, but my brothers in a union, he makes $86ph for Saturday, and gets time and a half on THAT if he goes 5 minuts after 8 hours. And even then they complain "IT's NOT ENOUGH"
Now these guys don't have it so bad, and there is no shortage of people who would love to write out there. So to the strikers, shut up, do your job. And if you don't like the companies policies, thats very common, but you know in America, no one makes you do anything, so quit!
Go work some crappy job like most of us do, then whine about that one too, and I'll take your job.
And thats just it, you're being comishioned to do work for someone else, thats it. If you want further royalties on something you do, then do your own thing, only then can you call your own shots.
Shame on you. They're writers, and you sound like a coder. You both sit in chairs all day, puching keyboards for what are both sickly, oily moneywhores like Josh Larson. You complain about YOUR bosses taking your money you earn them from your fluffy ass-cushion job, and then in the same breath tell these guys to cowboy up.
Your boss might make $100,000 this year off your 1337 skills. Imagine if he made $20 million? THAT'S part of why there's a writer strike on.
If you want to call your own shots, then go start your own internet company!! And the first thing you'll do is hire some kid to do some coding...
And BTW, construction guys DON'T get enough, because they have the riskiest damn job in the world (indluding road guys). If you don't actually die on the job, the mesothelioma or other industrial cancers will.
The circle of life...
Are you kidding? Liege made a very valid point, we are in America if you don't like the pay or conditions move on. There are tons of more talented guys out there that would kill for the opportunities these guys have. Plus I'm fairly sure none of these guys are rubbing pennies together to pay the rent. I made this point a month or so ago when the first news topic came up about this. It's not like these guys were blindsided, they took these jobs knowing the pay. For the record I agree that they should get some additonal compensation BUT the studios are the ones financing the movie thus taking all the financial risks. Thats why they take the lion share of the profits. They have to compesate for poorly performing movies that some writer did a hack job on. Wild Wild West is a perfect example do you have any idea how much money was lost on that movie? All of this is a perfect example of the current mindset that Big Business in America is some evil entity, breaking backs & stealing money.
The only people who will suffer during this is us.
End of rant...
Thanks, and to Abilor, you shouldn't make assumptions about people and what they do, I'm not a coder, but a field photographer. I do nice set up work from time to time, but mostly, reguardless of weather, I'm running up and down car lots, and traffic with 3 different cameras, two laptops, and anywhere from 1 to 200 different sets of keys. Today, it was 22 degrees out and snowing, which ment now I have to carry tools to clean these cars too.
I've worked many jobs more difficult and revolting, including construction, and I can tell you from experience, "cushy" is not a word I'd use to describe what I do. To be honest, the masonry, and electrical, were alot less demanding.
But still, when I did these jobs, I didn't have UNION support, and knowing what the average person earns for a hard days work, I'll go grab my hard hat and boots for half that Saturday pay, and be happy for it!
You're right, assumptions are poor, which is why I said you "sounded" like a coder. Yup, field photog is rough. Kind of like hunting, but without the gun part. And I agree, construction is not "cushy." My Dad (a programmer) bitches all the time that they're lazy overpaid thugmonkeys (programming for a construction company no less). I disagree, they're paid what they're worth, if not less, even union guys.
I think the nerve that has been touched for me is that lots of folks think trade union members are scumbags, and that strikes are motivated purely by greed. Strikers often have to use the constitutional right to assemble just to not be dragged away by officers (Don't taze me bro!), not in this high profile writers strike, but various meat-packer strikes I've seen documentaries on (and shown to students). Strikes are ugly, ugly, ugly, and usually end with everyone sh1tcanned anyway, or ostracized for being a scab, whatever.
And I hate to sound like I'm bleeding, but there really is very little to keep corporate power in check. "Corporation" literally means "body", and is legally an actual person. This person has all the rights that you and I have, with all the resources of some small nations. It sets policies for its employees, and its revenge on them is terrible if they break those policies. Who would want to be sued by WalMart, even if they did nothing wrong? Enron, for example, really, really screwed people. But when it comes to holding people accountable, the great part is that its the corporation that broke the law/went bankrupt. I'm not saying individual's aren't held accountable at all, but being incorporated offers you tons of legal loopholes. My anti-union father from above incorporated, and seeing how he cooks his books, it's astonishing what you can get away with, and he's just one guy!
Corporations are like devastator: an obscene pooling of power of many people rolled into one giant mother******. Strikes are autobots "rolling out." What else you gonna do?
Abilor,
I agree with 98% of what you are saying the right to strike is something that has made thousands of lives better. Fair enough, I just see struggling writers that would dream for the gig these guys have.
You mentioned Enron, I live in Houston and worked for Enron. While you are right about them, thats just one large corporation. I now work for another global oil & gas entity (Halliburton) that is considered an evil empire because of certain ex employees (Hint D. C). I have to say they are fantastic to us. I have never worked for another company that treated employees this well. Not all large companies are bad companies, it's just sensationalized media that reports on the bad. Nothing is every said about large companies when they do something good. Even Enron before the "Issues" had regular things like huge toy drives during Christmas.
Back on subject I think the writers are due more but aren't they considered independant contractors? Really I don't know. Like of the 1099 variety? If that is the case aren't they the masters of their own fate, IE benefits and so on? One studio does not want to pay X amount move on to the next? Or are they actually studio employees?
Differences on the subject aside, we are all here because of our love of the franchise no hard feelings.
I'm gonna agree with the both of you two.
But again, my nerve with this is simple, you helped write a story, you didn't create the story, you were just hired to flesh it out. When your job is done, it's done. If your doing it for an agency, studio, or whathave you, you don't have the rights. You are no more than any other contractor, and when your job is done it's done.
I say this as someone who writes and submits work all the time and full well knows the importance of copywrite and royalties. I often wave payment to keep the rights just so I don't have to fight to have my work published again with my name on it while I'm trying to build a name for myself.
Why, cause thats the game.
As for the right to strike, to be honest, I think more people should have it. I know me and my coworkers would love it. But it still doesn't change the fact that there's always someone willing to do it if you wont. So play your cards. Besides studios have been doing this type of things for years. If these people didn't put an adendum in their initial contracts about future royalties after Giligan's Island, it's there own fault for not paying attention for the past million years!
I'll suport medical workers who strike in shifts because they know that people truely need them, but they still have to get their points across. Those people make nothing, and deserve it, their jobs are increadably nessicary!
This however, is just greed over an indulgence. So get to work or get out or the way. And come your next job, please look before you leap.
Guarenteed after a month in the private sector, they'd look back and say "these jobs REALY suck, lets strike, oh we can't. Maybe we didn't have it so bad." As they open up a pack of Ramen Noodles after a 10 hour day.
Posted: Wed Dec 05, 2007 9:44 am
