Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

by **Bleak5170** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 10:59 am

OlivusPrime wrote:
Starscream GaGa wrote:
OlivusPrime wrote:So are Mirage and Wheeljack really called Dino and Q? If so, that REALLY sucks. If anything, I was looking forward to seeing characters named "Wheeljack" and "Mirage" on the big screen.

Yes. The ferrari is identified as Dino via a PA message in NEST and Que introduces himself as Que.

GAH. I'm really surprised that those names got into the film. Like everyone else though, I'll still think of them as Mirage and Wheeljack (film names could be nicknames), can't wait for the toys! Also it's really cool that Wheeljack is properly introduced (unlike the ROTF Autobots).

Maybe Nelson was the one who stole the script, and made some subtle changes?

I truly don't understand this. You only need half a brain to realize that "Wheeljack" and "Mirage" are FAR cooler names than "Dino" and "Que". I mean, not only does something like this upset the true TF fans, it just makes no sense! Who was the person or people who decided that Sideswipe should be called "Sideswipe", Arcee will be named "Arcee" etc.... but we're going to completely **** up the names of these new guys? I really want an explanation for this because it boggles my mind.

News Credits: 125 · by **Counterpunch** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:03 am

hellkitty wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:RE: Prime's war strategy and "brutishness"

Deal with this hypothetical scenario in a manner you find to be appropriate. Here is what you need to know:

- You and I are enemies. We have irreconcilable differences.
- I plan to destroy you and everything you love and cherish.
- I will not relent, ever.
- If you defeat me and show me mercy, I promise that I will smite you for it at the earliest opportunity.
- If I can not defeat you outright, I will prey upon people and things you care about without pause, without mercy, and without thought for consequence.
- If you imprison me, I will work the system until everyone believe I am reformed and when I am freed I will kill you and everything you care about. I will NEVER EVER stop.

Please tell me your scenario for victory with the understanding of who your opponent now is.

CP, I totally see your point. In fact, exactly what Cheesinator's issue (and mine, in part) is with the Bay Autobots is a pretty good mirror of, oh god Imma go there, American foreign policy. You can either:

FIGHT TO WIN which means every tactic is on the table no matter how morally...dubious or destructive

or

FIGHT AND STILL TRY TO BE THE NICE GUY which means things like the Geneva Convention, pissing ourselves about collateral damage, and try to be all friendly.

America tries to do option 2. It...doesn't work so hot. I remember an Army Captain got in some series poop for firing a pistol near a blindfolded interrogatee's head. He was firing into a clearing barrel, it was just a scare tactic, but people went BERSERK about 'we're Americans, we don't DO that!!!!'

So I guess what I'm trying to say is I kinda want to see the Autobots pull off Option 2 so maybe I'd have hope it could be done in real life? I dunno. It's silly and jingoistic as hell, but I want my Autobots to be...better than humans.

HK, living in fakerealityland since 1984

Understood. I really do get that.

I suppose the way I see the films playing out, it's not just war. It's an extinction event. To me, at that point it's not that the gloves come off, it's the you put on the gloves that explode shotgunshells with each punch.

by **Bleak5170** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:04 am

Mindmaster wrote:So the kill count is as following;

Autobots

*Ironhide (why?! He was so cool in the movies! But he was cooler in the original show though)

*Sentinel Prime (maybe should be in either Decepticons or just neutral)

*"Q" (Wheeljack)

Decepticons

*Megatron (is this for real, or was Seibertron just saying that Prime was doing what he does best?)

*Starscream

*Shockwave

*Barricade ( )

So let's get to the point; Utterly disappointed how not only do some of these beloved characters die out, but the fact Sentinel ends up betraying, killing Ironhide, and gets killed by Optimus. I also hate how Shockwave doesn't speak at all, including the game.

I must admit I'm not a fan of all the deaths either. I'm just glad Ratchet made it out unscathed as he's already died in the cartoon and the comics. I thought for sure they'd off him in the movies as well.

by **Bleak5170** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:15 am

Starscream GaGa wrote:S
-Notable deaths are Megatron, Sentinel Prime, Soundwave, Barricade, Laserbeak, Shockwave, Ironhide and Que.

Ummmmm....aren't you forgetting one pretty important one, (especially considering your nickname, lol)?

News Credits: 38 · by **TheMuffin** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:16 am

Well that review pretty much covers my thoughts on how the movie would play out and how the foray into moviedom would fizzle for this franchise.

Glad I decided not to see this one. After leaving ROTF and feeling like someone had stolen my wallet, shoved me in the mud, kicked my junk and boinked my mother, I vowed not to see the third movie. Seems to have worked out well.

by **Bleak5170** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:21 am

TheMuffin wrote:Well that review pretty much covers my thoughts on how the movie would play out and how the foray into moviedom would fizzle for this franchise.

Glad I decided not to see this one. After leaving ROTF and feeling like someone had stolen my wallet, shoved me in the mud, kicked my junk and boinked my mother, I vowed not to see the third movie. Seems to have worked out well.

Lol, you did a good job of summing up my feelings after walking out of the theater after ROTF. I was kind of in a haze of disbelief and was thinking to myself, "Did I really just see that?"

I just watched the movie again last weekend though, and having no high expectations this time, I admit it wasn't as bad as I originally thought. Some things will always be terrible, (such as Sam's idiotic roommate), but it was much more bearable. Still can't hold a candle to the first one though.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:25 am

hellkitty wrote:First, thanks for sharing your thoughts with us. I've actually been torn about seeing this movie since I heard some of the spoilers from IDW (the two major canon character deaths you mentioned) and, well, ROTF. It's great to have a FAN review, rather than some outsider--though those are valid, too--which goes into such depth.

Thanks. I hope it did alright or at least served its purpose. Not a fan of writing reviews, and I don't read a lot of reviews either because usually it amounts to "oh, it's a Transformers movie I love it." or "bitch, bitch, bitch, this movie sucked, i give it a 5 out of 5." Yah, I said 4, but I really meant 3. But there's a lot of 3/5 movies that I like.

hellkitty wrote:I'm most distressed, of course, that it's more about the people than the 'bots. I had this response to the comics as well--WHO ARE ALL THESE PEOPLE (is there a throwaway racefail character named Wang in the film?) and why am I seeing so many of THEM and so few ROBOTS?!?! Again, as Bay himself said, he hated the franchise until he took it and changed it. He changed it mostly by making it NOT about the canon characters we love, but about these dippy humans.

In his defense, he's just telling the story from the human perspective. I think until we get a 100% CGI or cel animated cartoon and that it's live action that the story will be continue to be told this way. This is also the only way I think the movies can be massive amounts of money, though I could be wrong about a cartoon based movie, I just don't think the look of Transformers Prime will translate to the big screen.

hellkitty wrote:ANYWAY, thanks for a great review. You haven't tipped the balance of whether I see it this week or not, but expectations? SUITABLY LOWERED.

Hopefully that's a good thing. I'd rather go into a movie with lower expectations than to go in thinking this is going to be Citizen Kane or JJ Abrahams' Star Trek.

hellkitty wrote:HK, My eye candy is robots

Then you won't be disappointed. There was only a moment or two during the beginning of the movie that I felt "where are the Transformers?" but it was a brief moment and the Transformers were in most of the scenes in the movie, and if there was a scene they weren't in, it was over fairly quickly.

News Credits: 1082 · by **Tigertrack** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:40 am

Thanks to Ryan's review, 2-D will be enough for me and I don't have to wear the damn glasses!

News Credits: 1 · by **D-340** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:48 am

Hmmmmmmmmmmmm............... still gonna see it(like I planned), but well it sounds pretty bad. Panty shots, really? Ugh :SICK:

Que and Dino, Bay did that to be an asshole. They're Wheeljack and Mirage in EVERYTHING else involved with DOTM, but much like the Brawl fiasco of the first movie, Bay changed the names just to do it.

Well, hopefully I don't walk outta this one, hopefully my expectations have been lowered enough so that I can enjoy it just a bit. But I think after tonight I may be joining the Reboot choir.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:49 am

hellkitty wrote:I think chees's point was that Optimus's ethics are a bit...darker than previous incarnations of Autobots? I remember being more than a little dismayed in ROTF when Bumblebee skinned Ravage and that whole 'gimme ur fais' meme. In my Geewunner head? AUTOBOTS DON"T DO THAT. They fight, but they're not brutal thugs.

If they are, do they deserve to win?

HK, not had tea yet, and philosophizin'.

I felt this way as well. Optimus Prime had several lines in this movie that made me cringe. One because I couldn't picture Peter Cullen saying things like "I'll kill them all!" and two because I didn't think killing was one of Optimus Prime's character traits. I understand that the movie might be a little more realistic in that respect, but I feel that's just not the Optimus Prime I know and love.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:50 am

D-340 wrote:Well, hopefully I don't walk outta this one, hopefully my expectations have been lowered enough so that I can enjoy it just a bit. But I think after tonight I may be joining the Reboot choir.

I'd rather see this universe continue for at least another film or two. Bring on Galvatron! And a new director and actors. It needs some fresh life brought into it.

by **JacobPGalvatron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:53 am

So after orchestrating the whole plot to drain earth of all it's resources and possibly rip the planet apart by having cyberton and earths gravity collide, not to mention the thousands of human deaths from the invasion and the murders of all the humans HELPING the deceptions, megaton deserves a second chance when asks for a truce AND keep his army?

You're nuts. That's like having bin laden coming to help us in conflict and ask the US for truce. :roll:

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:54 am

Tekka wrote:I don't want to focus on the very simplest level of the plot. "Stop them or we die." That may be enough for you, but it's not what I would have imagined coming from a decidely more adult movie. I can't break it down any further for you than I already have.

If Prime doesn't care about one of his comrades dying, I want to know why.

If he doesn't care about his planet being doomed, I want to know why.

If he has to go against everything he believes in and takes a life from enemy that can no longer fight back, I want to know what changed him into that person.

That's all. It's about telling the story of the characters, not defeating the monster of the day.

I feel the same way and my wife I discussed some of those very same points and lack of characterization on our car ride home after the film.

Website · by **Varia31** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 11:56 am

Okay, so, Megatron dies. Hopefully it makes a little more sense when you see it in the film. Sounds pretty crazy though. Hopefully seeing the movie will be better than a review, it sometimes is better to see for yourself. Thanks for the review Seibertron, I really appreciate the opinion of a fellow fan. I have a question though Seibertron, before Starscream's death, does he still get to kill Mirage/Dino like in the novel? It's nice that he gets to blow more stuff up, but does he still get to overpower an Autobot?

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:02 pm

Counterpunch wrote:Only because cartoons wouldn't let Prime get real and because his villains were cartoon villains who didn't kill humans. The examples are not even comparible.

Prime didn't make a 'quip' before killing the human murdering invader from space Demolisher. He gave him last words and then put him out of his misery after Demolisher destroyed parts of Beijing.

I strongly disagree with your statements (can't wait for our Podcast conversation) and it makes me realize how different ones opinion can be when they don't religiously follow the comics and cartoons over the past 27 years. Can you tell me if you've read every single issue of the original Marvel comics series? Have you watched all of Beast Wars? Your comments come across to me like someone who doesn't know the fictional Optimus Prime that has been presented for the past 27 years outside of the movies.

I'm interpreting what you're saying is that heroes like Spider-Man, Superman, and Batman should just toss in the towel and start killing all of their villains as well based off your comments about Optimus Prime. Killing is the easy way out, it's also the easy way out for the writers. Imagine scenes where the Autobots take Decepticons as prisoners of war instead of just killing them. Imagine Optimus stopping just short of killing a 'con because he should put life above all else (as tragic as a flaw and unrealistic as it can be, it's just part of the superhero / fantasy drama).

I understand that it's going to happen. I'm not saying I don't want to see Optimus to kill a few 'cons, it's just how it's written. It even happened, supposedly, in the Marvel comics (particularly G2 comes to mind). But it was rarely without doubts, questions, etc, and without Optimus Prime wondering if he was no better than his enemy when such moments would arise.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:06 pm

OlivusPrime wrote:So are Mirage and Wheeljack really called Dino and Q? If so, that REALLY sucks. If anything, I was looking forward to seeing characters named "Wheeljack" and "Mirage" on the big screen.

Yes, Dino and Q clear as clear can be.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:06 pm

Doubledealer25 wrote:so seibertron, did megatron die in the end???

Yes.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:08 pm

vegetacron wrote:I really like Seibertron's review.

I've been trying to figure out if i still want to go see it and i think i've reached a happy medium of still watching it on Thursday (as planned), but not shelling out the extra money for the 3D version. I have the same opinion of 3D as Seibertron does - its just a gimmick.

On the other hand, i've been trying to figure out how to keep an open mind and just enjoy the stupid easy entertainment that its going to be without letting my 'Transformer fanboy' mind hate it and get all depressed over it. Which of course, proceeds to coming here and waging a flame war with the Bayformer fans. And i really don't want to do that, because i do respect every Transformers fan's opinion here.

So i've started trying to cope with this and the closest that i can come to is trying to emulate the same mindset as a sports fan. I like 'Team G1' while the Bayformer fans are 'Team Bayformers'. The World Super Bowl Series Cup Finals are this movie in which both teams are playing. So i'm going to go to show my support for my team and if they lose, take in stride that they'll come back stronger than ever next season, or in this case, the next reboot.

When the Team Bayformer fans start going on and on about how Micheal Bay is the grand master of action movies and blah, blah, blah...instead of debating them, i can go "Yeah, but did you notice that they used the original Optimus Prime voice actor? That was awesome!" and when they go, "maaan, that 'Dino' Transformer was off the hook!", i can comment and say, "Yeah, he was a Bayformer successor to the much more badass character, Mirage!"

I think this way of thinking keep it all win/win. No flamming and everyone agrees that the World Super Bowl Series Cup Final 3/DOTM movie was great entertainment.

But the only difficult part is keeping tact when the Team Bayformer fans poke and prod. lol

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:14 pm

cruizerdave wrote:It's like reading three pages worth of justification.

On one hand you're saying, "sure it has problems with the story [anything like the first two, its stupid]" then you say, "oh these guys have done an amazing job!"

It's like you're justifying the fact that it's more low brow stupid Michael Bay filmmaking with the fact that it has a hot girl, cool cars and robots, lots of robots. Robots that get no characterization. Robots that are shoved aside for the stupidest cast of humans out side of the sequel to Dumb and Dumber.

If that's what you got out of it, then I feel you reread my review because that's not what I wrote. Yes it had its problems. Yes, I think people should go see it so that you can make your own decision. I will not sit here and tell you that you shouldn't go see this movie. That's a choice for you, and you alone, to make. I also stated at the end that I gave it a 4 out of 5 on Netflix, but that's only because it was a Transformers film. I would've give it a 3 all day long had it not been. So I even admit my own bias, but then immediately tell you what I really thought.

I never said that these guys have done an amazing job with the entire movie. I thought I made it pretty clear that I thought the special effects were amazing, that the music and sound was spectacular, and that the acting itself was pretty damn good. My problems lied with the storytelling, lack of characterization and the editing choices that ended up making the film seem like an MTV generation video.

Please reread my review because I think you missed some major parts of my criticism as well as my 3 out of 5 rating.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:18 pm

Starscream GaGa wrote:
cruizerdave wrote:Personally, the first film was a C- at best, the second was so mind numbingly awful, it's one of the worst movies ever created. This one my be an improvement on the second one, but that's not saying much. X-men 3, The Phantom Menace, Green Lantern and Spider-Man 3 were all better than the last Transformers movie, so that's faint praise indeed.

Putting Spider man 3 with the liek of X-men 3 is just mean.

I don't know, both killed their franchises. I wasn't a fan of either of those train wrecks.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:20 pm

cruizerdave wrote:
Starscream GaGa wrote:
cruizerdave wrote:Personally, the first film was a C- at best, the second was so mind numbingly awful, it's one of the worst movies ever created. This one my be an improvement on the second one, but that's not saying much. X-men 3, The Phantom Menace, Green Lantern and Spider-Man 3 were all better than the last Transformers movie, so that's faint praise indeed.

Putting Spider man 3 with the liek of X-men 3 is just mean.

They actually share some of the same problems. Rushed production, forced to incorporate characters and concepts that there wasn't room for and not paying good enough attention to the source material. The difference is that Spidey 3 is padded to be like two hours and 20 minutes long with horrible afternoon soap opera scenes involving omelets, lost memories, crying, singing, jazz dancing ... X3 was at least quick and to the point and over in 90 minutes or so the suffering wasn't prolonged.

ROTF makes both look like The Godfather.

(ROTF <= X3) && (ROTF > SP3) && (DOTM > X3) && (DOTM > SP3).

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:21 pm

Mindmaster wrote:So the kill count is as following;

Autobots

*Ironhide (why?! He was so cool in the movies! But he was cooler in the original show though)

*Sentinel Prime (maybe should be in either Decepticons or just neutral)

*"Q" (Wheeljack)

Decepticons

*Megatron (is this for real, or was Seibertron just saying that Prime was doing what he does best?)

*Starscream

*Shockwave

*Barricade ( )

So let's get to the point; Utterly disappointed how not only do some of these beloved characters die out, but the fact Sentinel ends up betraying, killing Ironhide, and gets killed by Optimus. I also hate how Shockwave doesn't speak at all, including the game.

You forgot Soundwave!

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 pm

NovaSentinel wrote:does mirage/dino, bumblebee and soundwave die and if so how?

Don't recall Mirage/Dino biting it. Soundwave and Bumblebee duke it out and Bumblebee kills Soundwave.

News Credits: 125 · by **Counterpunch** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:22 pm

Seibertron wrote:
Counterpunch wrote:Only because cartoons wouldn't let Prime get real and because his villains were cartoon villains who didn't kill humans. The examples are not even comparible.

Prime didn't make a 'quip' before killing the human murdering invader from space Demolisher. He gave him last words and then put him out of his misery after Demolisher destroyed parts of Beijing.

I strongly disagree with your statements (can't wait for our Podcast conversation) and it makes me realize how different ones opinion can be when they don't religiously follow the comics and cartoons over the past 27 years. Can you tell me if you've read every single issue of the original Marvel comics series? Have you watched all of Beast Wars? Your comments come across to me like someone who doesn't know the fictional Optimus Prime that has been presented for the past 27 years outside of the movies.

I suppose we will take this up Thursday night on the recording...

Bring your 'A' game.

News Credits: 3554 · by **Seibertron** » Tue Jun 28, 2011 12:23 pm

TheMuffin wrote:Glad I decided not to see this one. After leaving ROTF and feeling like someone had stolen my wallet, shoved me in the mud, kicked my junk and boinked my mother, I vowed not to see the third movie. Seems to have worked out well.

Ouch!