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Some G1 characters are not relevant?

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Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Nemesis Reformatted » Sat May 29, 2021 1:56 am

Somebody on Youtube replied to me saying the Deluxe Insecticons are not relevant. Why? Because they didn't appear in the cartoon? Do I need to remind everybody that the cartoon was nothing more than a 30 minute advertisement to sell the toys? And the cartoon couldn't include every single character?

How do you feel about this? Do you really think a character's appearance in the advertisement makes them any less relevant?

When I was a kid I didn't watch the cartoon much. I was never much of a TV watcher. All I cared about were the toys. I was a toy collector not a cartoon collector. And now seeing so many fans ignoring characters that didn't appear in the cartoon really pisses me off. Everybody seems to be trying to erase those characters. Trying to forget they ever existed. I never see anybody ever mention Ransack, Venom, Barrage or Chop Shop. It's always Kickback, Bombshell & Shrapnel because they were in the cartoon.

And remember, before the 2007 movie, Bumblebee was nothing. We never heard anything about Bumblebee. But look at him now. If Hasbro wanted to, they could make all those forgotten characters as popular as Bumblebee. If they shoved Ransack in everybody's face like they did with Bumblebee, then Ransack would be just as popular.

Popular characters = the most seen & well-known characters.

I've been hoping for new versions of Ransack, Venom, Barrage & Chop Shop for decades. Ransack is one of my top favorite Transformers of all time. Hasbro teased me 6 years ago with Combiner Wars Chop Shop. But they never finished the team. :( And Fansproject screwed me by only making Barrage, Ransack & Chop Shop. It looks like I am never going to get a full set of all 4. :BANG_HEAD:

But now I'm starting to wonder how many Transformers "fans" even remember they exist. I bet the younger generations that didn't grow up with G1 don't even know who they are. One guy on Youtube said "weren't there only 3 deluxe Insecticons?". :roll:

4 characters from G1 1985 are not relevant but Inferno in a white T-shirt that was only released in Japan is somehow relevant??? I see fans going crazy over Artfire but I never ever see them mention Ransack, Venom, Barrage, Chop Shop, Squeezeplay, Horri-Bull, Fangry, Joyride or Slapdash just to name a few. How does that even work? We didn't even have Artfire in America yet somehow everybody is dying to get him while totally forgetting characters that we did actually have.

WTF people? WTF??? Sorry, but that Youtube comment really set me off. What a stupid & outrageous claim. :BOOM:
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Munkky » Sat May 29, 2021 3:23 am

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I wouldn't necessarily say the Deluxe Insecticons are "irrelevant", just not a very high priority for Hasbro and not a priority at all for Takara. From what I understand the original toys were licenced out from Bandai, one of Takara's biggest competitors, so they were left out of tie-in fiction because Takara also used the G1 cartoon to promote the toys and they didn't want to give their rival free publicity. This kind of corporate red tape is also why Jetfire was heavily redesigned and re-named "Skyfire" for the cartoon and Whirl and Roadbuster were also left out.

I think you're really underestimating the importance of both the cartoons and the comic books. It's much, much easier to get attached to a character when you see them having adventures and going through character arcs in narrative stories. Bumblebee certainly wasn't "nothing" before 2007, he was one of the most prominent characters in the show's first two seasons. Whirl and Roadbuster may not have been in the cartoon, but they were added to the original line-up of the Wreckers, one of the most popular things about the UK Marvel comics, and Whirl went on to become a breakout fan favourite in recent years because of his role in the newer comics.
I grew up with Beast Wars in the 90's, my first Transformer toys were Snapper and Armordillo, both of which I have a lot of nostalgia for, but I know that there'll likely never be new toys of them because neither have ever had major roles in any kind of fiction. As for Artfire, it's an easy, low-effort repaint opportunity and sometimes people are just attracted to an eye-catching colour scheme.

The most I can see the Deluxe Insecticons getting is low-effort repaints of Bombshell, Kickback or Shrapnel that look nothing like the originals, like Combiner Wars Chop Shop. But also keep in mind that Combiner Wars Chop Shop was never released in Japan, likely because Takara stil see it as a Bandai product and don't want to give Bandai any kind of free publicity.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Nemesis Reformatted » Sat May 29, 2021 5:13 am

Munkky wrote:I wouldn't necessarily say the Deluxe Insecticons are "irrelevant", just not a very high priority for Hasbro and not a priority at all for Takara. From what I understand the original toys were licenced out from Bandai, one of Takara's biggest competitors, so they were left out of tie-in fiction because Takara also used the G1 cartoon to promote the toys and they didn't want to give their rival free publicity. This kind of corporate red tape is also why Jetfire was heavily redesigned and re-named "Skyfire" for the cartoon and Whirl and Roadbuster were also left out.


Yeah, I know all that. And since they actually still use Jetfire, Whirl & Roadbuster, there is no reason not to redesign & use the Insecticons too.

Munkky wrote:I think you're really underestimating the importance of both the cartoons and the comic books. It's much, much easier to get attached to a character when you see them having adventures and going through character arcs in narrative stories.


That's why I said popular character = the ones with the most screen time. Somebody needs to give these guys some screen time or put them in a comic book. Maybe I should write a letter to the comic company. Who's currently making the comics? IDW?

Munkky wrote:Bumblebee certainly wasn't "nothing" before 2007, he was one of the most prominent characters in the show's first two seasons.


I meant we never heard about him between G1 & the 2007 movie. He wasn't used that whole time.


Munkky wrote:Whirl and Roadbuster may not have been in the cartoon, but they were added to the original line-up of the Wreckers, one of the most popular things about the UK Marvel comics, and Whirl went on to become a breakout fan favourite in recent years because of his role in the newer comics.


So that's all they need to do with Ransack, Barrage, Venom & Chop Shop. Stick'em in the comics & BOOM! Instant popularity & new toys.


Munkky wrote:I grew up with Beast Wars in the 90's, my first Transformer toys were Snapper and Armordillo, both of which I have a lot of nostalgia for, but I know that there'll likely never be new toys of them because neither have ever had major roles in any kind of fiction.


My favorite Beast Wars will probably never be made again. Cybershark, Bonecrusher, Jetstorm, Manterror, Rampage, Depthcharge. The only one that might have a chance is Inferno. :(

But the deluxe Insecticons are needed to complete the 1985 G1 lineup. I can't believe all the "geewunners" out there aren't pushing for these guys. I'm gonna keep pushing for them. Out of all the Transformers characters, these are my top 4 most wanted.

Not relevant.... :evil: I'll give you not relevant!
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Emerje » Sat May 29, 2021 5:37 am

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Nemesis Reformatted wrote:And remember, before the 2007 movie, Bumblebee was nothing. We never heard anything about Bumblebee.

Image

He was in nearly every pre '86 movie episode, survived being killed off in the movie, was featured many times in comics, story books and coloring books, had FOUR figures between '84 and '90 (five if you count the red one, six if you count the '89 Legends figure), had two figures in G2, had a Smallest Transformers release in '03, had multiple reissues (the keychain version was released THREE times by '07), and two figures in the Classics line, all before the first movie came out. He has ALWAYS been Hasbro's kid friendly go to fan favorite, him staring in the movies wasn't some random decision, it would have been surprising if he didn't! He doesn't compare AT ALL to four forgettable Insecticons that Hasbro only had short term use of. If seen you make some ridiculous claims but that tops them all!

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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Rodimus Prime » Sat May 29, 2021 6:44 am

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Like you said, the cartoon was basically a toy commercial and you were/are a toy collector. So were a lot of others. When it comes to these characters it's all about appeal. We're the 3 main Insecticons very good sellers? Did kids want them? Just because you did, doesn't mean others did. If the Insecticons had sold like Optimus or Starscream, they would have bern mass-produced and had more options, such as the 4 you mentioned. They were all different and colorful, so they should have appealed to children. Maybe if they had been Autobots in opposition to the Insecticons, they would have sold better.

So I think as they are now, 2ndary minor Con characters, they won't get much recognition due to all the "bug" appeal going to the main 3 Insecticons and maybe Waspinator from Beast Wars. Bottom line is, bugs are just not that appealing and whatever attention they command, goes to the main 3.

If they were to be focused on in comics like you say, it still wouldn't warrant 4 brand new toys for them, not for a few years at least. Their reliability in the market place would have to be proven by sales of the comics where they're the main characters. And right now, pretty much all of IDW is creatively stagnant, so minor 2ndary characters like those 4 have no chance.

I do understand your frustration, I have similar frustrations regarding other characters. But some figures just either won't happen, or you have to have miles and miles of patience, and maybe they will get made in the new upcoming trilogy perhaps as a line filler or as a 4-pack part of the Selects line.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Gauntlet101010 » Sat May 29, 2021 7:13 am

Some G1 characters aren't very relevant. Some characters are more important to the franchise than others. Not everyone can be an Optimus Prime. Not even Rodimus Prime can be an Optimus Prime.

The cartoon plays a HUGE role in my collecting since that's where my nostalgia lies. I don't only collect from the seasons I care about, but it's 90%. If we're talking about toys we wish we'd have gotten, I wish we got a new Squeezeplay. But he was just a head in TR.

The cartoon was a toy commercial ... a very effective one, giving most of the characters a real chance to shine. Sure, there are TFs I like mainly because of the cool toy, but the VAST majority is because an old cartoon sold them to me at an impressionable age. It's the difference between Transformers and any other given cool transforming robot toy.

If we're shifting to characters whos popularity baffles us, I don't get the love Takara has for Skids. Multiple reissues, an Alternators toy, AND an MP toy? I don't get it.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby TF-fan kev777 » Sat May 29, 2021 9:37 am

Unfortunately you are going to have to face the reality that the only way the deluxe insecticons are ever going to be made is likely to be just as repaints/retools of the original 3 at deluxe scale, likely in the Selects line, with Venom possibly coming from a repaint/retool of a BW figure from Kingdom or whatever is coming next. They just aren't going to get a set of 4 new molds. So while at this point you may hate anyone's focus on the original 3, they are likely your best bet at getting the 4 you really want.

We have bug designs coming in Kingdom and hopefully more from whatever is next. The original 3 insecticons are very likely to come in the SS86 line since the current design team only got to do 2 of them at legends scale. It is likely only a matter of time before there are 4 "good enough" molds to redeco/retool into the deluxe insecticons. Because of the liscensing issues with Takara, Hasbro Selects is likely the best route to getting them made, but completing a team would require either 4 deluxe slots or some pairs or even a 4-pack.
Because of the obscurity, I can actually see something like this being really good as an SDCC exclusive or something similar.

So there is potential, but it is going to take a while. "Good enough" molds for other characters are going to have to come first.

While you may hate the "laziness" in your eyes of the repaint of Artfire from Inferno, that is likely the only way the 4 deluxes are coming, by a redeco of a prominent character into the more obscure character. Its just the way it goes.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Sat May 29, 2021 10:28 am

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TF-fan kev777 wrote:Unfortunately you are going to have to face the reality that the only way the deluxe insecticons are ever going to be made is likely to be just as repaints/retools of the original 3 at deluxe scale, likely in the Selects line, with Venom possibly coming from a repaint/retool of a BW figure from Kingdom or whatever is coming next. They just aren't going to get a set of 4 new molds. So while at this point you may hate anyone's focus on the original 3, they are likely your best bet at getting the 4 you really want.

We have bug designs coming in Kingdom and hopefully more from whatever is next. The original 3 insecticons are very likely to come in the SS86 line since the current design team only got to do 2 of them at legends scale. It is likely only a matter of time before there are 4 "good enough" molds to redeco/retool into the deluxe insecticons. Because of the liscensing issues with Takara, Hasbro Selects is likely the best route to getting them made, but completing a team would require either 4 deluxe slots or some pairs or even a 4-pack.
Because of the obscurity, I can actually see something like this being really good as an SDCC exclusive or something similar.

So there is potential, but it is going to take a while. "Good enough" molds for other characters are going to have to come first.


Venom would be really hard to properly pull off compared to the other three who have proper insect counterparts (Rhinoceros Beetle for Bombshell and Barrage, Stag Beetle for Shrapnel and Chop Shop, Grasshopper for Kickback and Ransack. All three common bugs in Japanese pop culture if I may add). The closest Venom got was the original deco plan for T30 Venin, a redeco of tiny Waspinator. News flash: Cicadas and Wasps are not the same, it'll take a lot more than switching out legs, mandibles and heads.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby o.supreme » Sat May 29, 2021 10:43 am

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oh boy.... a lot of opinions here,and that is fine, btu I think the point is to remember these are ALL Just opinions, not facts.

Anyway...I kind of resent the idea that the animated series (and by extesion comics books) were *Just* toy commercials. Yes of course that was the goal, but in doing so they actually had talented writers, story editors, and actors that created a fiction that we are still talking about almost 40 years later.

In fact I have pretty much every action/sci-fi cartoon that I can get my hands on in some sort of physical media from the 70's-90's because I loved the animated series. Transformers however is the only one of them that I collect toys of. I was into MOTU for a long time, but I simply don't have the room. So if the goal was for toy companies to get me as a kid, to have my parents buy toys of Thundercats, GI Joe, MASK, Voltron, etc..... then they failed amazingly because I enjoy all these shows without the toys.

That being said, I undertsand the frustration that comes form not seeing an original Transformers character get a modern update. There is still a good long list of characters from 1984-1992 that haven't recieved one yet, and all i can say is patience. My favorite character is Omega Supreme. It took 34 years, but we finally got one in Siege and it is amazing!

Needless to say, there are still a good chunk of characters I am waiting for. I am partial to characters from the Japanese series Headmasters Masterforce and Victory. We have received some, and i am grateful, but i look forward to it's completion someday.

My first ever Transformers toy was gifted to me in 1985. Twintwist, incidentally also a character that didn't appear in print or in the cartoon at the time (although a friend of mine lied and said he WAS in the cartoon...) gotta love 80's playground talk....

Anyway, The Jumpstarters didn't get toys again until Titans Return, and they sold VERY well despite their obscurity. Unfortunately Twintwist was infamous among the rest of the deluxe 5th wave that never got proper distribution in the united states.

The point is, we just have to be patient. Legalities aside with the Deluxe Insecticons, they hopefully will come in time. I don't think they will show up in media soon. I really appreciated DW comics because they really tried to go all out to include many characters that didn't appear in much media, and flesh out those characters, instead of feeling the need to create new ones. Heck, they took Sunstorm, a background nobody from one shot of one episode, and made him one of the most formidable villains ever!

IDW seems more interested in creating new characters I have zero interest in, and changing the personalities of most of the ones I know to the point that they don't act at all how they should, so I dropped the book like a ton of bricks when the first continuity finally ended in 2018, and haven't read a single issue since.

Believe me when I say, there isn't a fan out there that probably isn't waiting for a certain character, and while some exposure in comics, or an animated series might give them a push, I don't think it's fully necessary. After all, if you enjoy the deluxe insecticons so much, there's a strong chance that however they would be portrayed in IDW is not something you'd be happy with. Just know that we are ALL waiting, and have been for a good 30+ years for some character(s), and that does not make them irrelevent.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Sculyblast » Sat May 29, 2021 10:51 am

In the final hour, all transformers will be irrelevant. There will only be the Lord of Chaos, the devourer of worlds, Unicron!
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby alekese » Sat May 29, 2021 10:54 am

I can understand how having favorite characters fall by the wayside may be frustrating, but to lump the deluxe insecticons with neglected headmasters as being laziness on hastak's part is at this point willfully ignoring the realities of their specific situation. Unlike the headmasters, the 4 deluxe insecticons aren't hastak's to make. They are Bandai made designs, and Bandai made molds, borrowed by hasbro back when bandai loaned out the rights to molds to local american companies rather than deal with the hassle of interacting with the US market themselves. Takara could not release them in Japan, because Bandai still had the rights in the japanese domestic market.

Nowadays, bandai is an active participant in the US market, meaning the same issues takara had in japan now apply there as well. Hasbro, and especially TakaraTomy, cannot make 1:1 modernised versions of these characters without paying off bandai. Roadbuster and Whirl were made in spite of this in T30 because fan demand for those character was high enough that the buy-in cost was worth it. The deluxe insecticons don't have that same enthusiasm, so making new molds from scratch is a huge gamble with higher upfront costs and low chances of even breaking even.

As much as you deride the three cartoon insecticons for overshadowing your faves, they are your best friends when it comes to getting passable versions of the bandai insecticons made. Even if the layout of where kibble ends up is different than the bandai molds, Barrage is a shoe in for a Bombshell redeco/retool, both turning into rhinoceros bettles. Chop Shop is and has been an easy Shrapnel/Skrapnel redeco/tool, both being stag beetles. Kickback and Ransack are both grasshoppers/locusts. Venom/Venin is the odd one left out by this, but I can see hastak shifting him into a waspinator retool, justifying it as making him actually venomous. We already have leaks of new deluxe scale toon insecticons, so hold out hope for genselects off of those.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Spider5800 » Sat May 29, 2021 4:45 pm

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:So that's all they need to do with Ransack, Barrage, Venom & Chop Shop. Stick'em in the comics & BOOM! Instant popularity & new toys.

https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Venom_(G1)#Marvel_Comics_continuity
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Barrage_(Insecticon)#Dreamwave_Generation_One_continuity
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Chop_Shop_(G1)#Marvel_Comics_continuity
https://tfwiki.net/wiki/Ransack_(G1)#Dreamwave_Generation_One_continuity

They've actually been put in the comics multiple times. UK Marvel stuff, Dreamwave era, and IDW era. They even appeared in Regeneration One, which is a continuation of the original US Marvel series. Still hasn't been much push for them from fans.

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:My favorite Beast Wars will probably never be made again. Cybershark, Bonecrusher, Jetstorm, Manterror, Rampage, Depthcharge. The only one that might have a chance is Inferno. :(

A couple of these had new toys within the last decade. Pretty good ones, too.

Image
Image

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:But the deluxe Insecticons are needed to complete the 1985 G1 lineup. I can't believe all the "geewunners" out there aren't pushing for these guys.

Hate to break it to you, but for a lot of G1 fans, the cartoon is king. There's a reason why Masterpieces are leaning more towards a cartoonish styling now, even though it makes transformations a joyless slog. It's not particularly shocking that there isn't a lot of demand for characters that most people view as second stringers to the characters on the cartoon.

Obviously, you could argue this is Hasbro and Takara's fault for not featuring them in more, but as others have pointed out, it's not hard to understand why they would avoid promoting characters designed by their competitors. Jetfire has been a legal headache for them for DECADES, and that's a legitimately popular character. I can't imagine they want to go through that fight over characters even hardcore G1 fans sometimes forget about.

I get it, its frustrating when a character you love doesn't get more attention from the franchise, but I highly doubt you're going to get much better than the occasional repaint of one of these guys. You're screaming into the void with this one.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Emerje » Sun May 30, 2021 1:04 am

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Jelze Bunnycat wrote:Venom would be really hard to properly pull off compared to the other three who have proper insect counterparts (Rhinoceros Beetle for Bombshell and Barrage, Stag Beetle for Shrapnel and Chop Shop, Grasshopper for Kickback and Ransack. All three common bugs in Japanese pop culture if I may add). The closest Venom got was the original deco plan for T30 Venin, a redeco of tiny Waspinator. News flash: Cicadas and Wasps are not the same, it'll take a lot more than switching out legs, mandibles and heads.

We should probably wait and see how convincing of a wasp the Waspinator figure is first or at least what his transformation is like. ;)

And cicadas are a BIG part of Japanese culture that show up in anime (either visually or just as a summer background noise) very, very frequently, too. (Link to Russian website cataloging cicada in anime.)

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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Evil Eye » Tue Jun 01, 2021 6:44 am

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New Deluxe Insecticons would be cool, as unlikely as it is that we'll get them. Always did find it funny that Venom turned into a decidedly non-venomous and utterly harmless cicada, but them's the breaks. :lol:

I do wish that the comics hadn't taken a nosedive, because I do genuinely enjoy it when B-listers get more characterization/time in the sun. I'd love, for example, the Seacons to get some actual development and fun stories with them in (speaking strictly about the G1 Seacons)- IDW did them dirty IIRC.

A big part of the problem of course was the horrendously bloated cast of the cartoon resulting in everyone who wasn't a "regular" fighting for any limelight at all as the writers attempted to squeeze as many toys in as possible. So the S3 Minibots showing up to be trounced by Trypticon in one episode and then doing nothing else at all. For all of Armada's flaws, I actually feel the smaller cast was a good idea as it at least avoided "Hi, buy my toy kthanxbai!" to some degree.

It's also a shame a lot of the B-listers, when they DO get an appearance, get their OG toy bios ignored or overlooked. Case in point, Tailgate thinking mundane cars are sentient would be a great starting point for some hilarious antics. But in IDW that got overlooked entirely for, uh, making him gay for Cyclonus?
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby sol magnus » Tue Jun 01, 2021 7:04 am

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Rodimus Prime wrote:Like you said, the cartoon was basically a toy commercial and you were/are a toy collector. So were a lot of others. When it comes to these characters it's all about appeal. We're the 3 main Insecticons very good sellers? Did kids want them? Just because you did, doesn't mean others did. If the Insecticons had sold like Optimus or Starscream, they would have bern mass-produced and had more options, such as the 4 you mentioned. They were all different and colorful, so they should have appealed to children. Maybe if they had been Autobots in opposition to the Insecticons, they would have sold better.

Well, the main thing about the other three Insecticons wasn't about appeal (I personally liked them more because they were 'deluxe' when I was a kid), it was more because they were Bandai, and Bandai stuff wasn't on the show in almost every case. And the 'almost' is Jetfire.

In response to the OP, I think they're all relevant, but there's a caveat. Going back to the deluxe Insecticons, their relevance is damaged by the whole Bandai thing, which has limited (although not completely curtailed) Hasbro from making them in modern forms. Still 'damaged' relevance is still relevance. We can get into things I think are irrelevant, like Pretenders - I just don't generally like the concept - but at the same time even G1 Transformers can't just be what I personally like or dislike - it's ALL good.

Interesting topic. Thanks for posting it.
Evil Eye wrote:A big part of the problem of course was the horrendously bloated cast of the cartoon resulting in everyone who wasn't a "regular" fighting for any limelight at all as the writers attempted to squeeze as many toys in as possible. So the S3 Minibots showing up to be trounced by Trypticon in one episode and then doing nothing else at all. For all of Armada's flaws, I actually feel the smaller cast was a good idea as it at least avoided "Hi, buy my toy kthanxbai!" to some degree.

It's an even bigger problem now that you have (or can have) the whole of G1 plus other guys from other lines added to a kind of Neo G1. The old stuff had the advantage of other new people being actually new, whereas now they all exist in one timeframe together (even though they were all alive for millions of years - they just didn't get 'shown' until they were introduced).

It's also a shame a lot of the B-listers, when they DO get an appearance, get their OG toy bios ignored or overlooked. Case in point, Tailgate thinking mundane cars are sentient would be a great starting point for some hilarious antics. But in IDW that got overlooked entirely for, uh, making him gay for Cyclonus?

I mean, A listers get their OG toy bios ignored or overlooked at times. I do believe characters can change, and that the bios are like day one of you getting them - but from here on out the story's up to you. When you start a story or a continuity, I'd at least like the character to be the character, not just somebody who looks like but acts nothing like the character we know it to be. That's kind of disrespectful to me.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Rysquad » Fri Jun 11, 2021 5:24 pm

I think that Transformers media has allowed us to get attached to characters that would normally just be grunts or red shirts in other franchises. Like G1 Starscream could have had one special color and the rest of the Seekers could have remained nameless soldiers in a few different colors - then we wouldn't have gotten attached to Skywarp or Thundercracker. I mean they went with Scourge and various Sweeps later on.

Not every character is or even needs to be a main character. That doesn't mean someone can't love them more and others aren't allowed to love them less.

In terms of relevance, to me it depends on the story. In the context of an episode or even a series, yes some characters can be irrelevant. Maybe "less relevant" is less harsh way to put it.

I don't mind. I like what I like.
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Nemesis Reformatted » Sat Jul 10, 2021 2:33 am

Well, the new Titans Return FANGRY has been revealed in the Buzzworthy Bumblebee 4-pack. I'm totally thrilled out of my mind!

The sad thing is, some of the guys over on TFW2005 don't even know who he is & some don't want him at all.

But the good thing is, most only want him. So that's a really good sign. Fangry is the most wanted out of the set & most fans are willing to buy all 4 figures just to get him. This proves that Hasbro can go ahead & make Squeezeplay, Horri-Bull & the deluxe Insecticons.

Pretty much every Transformer figure they make sells. Everybody is buying up Transformers like there's no tomorrow.

And about the Bandai thing, I would be happy with totally original designs just like they did with Jetfire. Just get those 4 characters into the line somehow.

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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby Jelze Bunnycat » Sat Jul 10, 2021 5:49 pm

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Nemesis Reformatted wrote: Pretty much every Transformer figure they make sells. Everybody is buying up Transformers like there's no tomorrow.


The first statement, VERY generally speaking, they do. The second tho, eh...
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Re: Some G1 characters are not relevant?

Postby ZeldaTheSwordsman » Fri Dec 03, 2021 11:15 am

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Re: The cartoon being king causing the crappy transformations of MPs nowadays... Agreed, but the comics largely used the same model sheets (at least for shared characters) so it's not like following the comics would necessarily yield better. And it might actually yield worse than animation in some cases (*cough*Powermaster Optimus Prime*cough*).
Speaking as a cartoon fan, I hate the MP39 design school (as many have probably noticed by now). Screw turning the G1 designs into needlessly-complex, toony-looking Roger Rabbit-formers, give me stuff like MP10 and MP12 that's "the character if they were in real life".

The cartoon being king is indeed to blame for characters who were only present in the comics being less well-known/well-sought. The Deluxe Insecticons got a double-whammy, since in the old days they only appeared in the UK comics. They got more of a presence in Dreamwave and the first IDW series (though the latter is relatively small), probably because Furman, but that was later on.

But really, Bandai are the ultimate factor in the Deluxe Insecticons not getting new toys based on their old designs - Hasbro can no more do that than they can do toys of the Go-Bots characters based on the original Machine Robo designs, because the designs belong to Bandai. Hasbro are clearly aware of there being interest in the Deluxe Insecticons and have done homages to them... but the original designs are off-limits.
Although who knows, maybe Bandai could be persuaded to permanently sell Hasbro the rights to the Beetras designs. It's not like Dorvack or especially Macross where there's an established anime the toys tie into that Bandai can cash in on with reissues; the Deluxe Insecticons are the only reason anyone cares about Takatoku's final designs.

Evil Eye wrote:A big part of the problem of course was the horrendously bloated cast of the cartoon resulting in everyone who wasn't a "regular" fighting for any limelight at all as the writers attempted to squeeze as many toys in as possible. So the S3 Minibots showing up to be trounced by Trypticon in one episode and then doing nothing else at all. For all of Armada's flaws, I actually feel the smaller cast was a good idea as it at least avoided "Hi, buy my toy kthanxbai!" to some degree.
This is a big reason why shows from Beast Wars-onward have largely stuck to the small "core cast" model. This also extended to other Hasbro franchises like MLP.

I have to laugh about Nemesis saying Bumblebee was never relevant before the movies. Bumblebee was so prominent back in G1 that for a long time what I like to think of as the "Charles Dickens/Roald Dahl villain" segment of the fandom had a raging visceral hateboner for him. Bumblebee was so prominent that he was one of the 1984-5 characters chosen to be done as a Classic Pretender. The only reason there was a lack of Bumblebee for a while after a return to vehicle-based shows was that Hasbro had lost the trademark. Armada Hot Shot? Was originally going to be called Bumblebee, and has some very obvious Bumblebee elements about him. But Hasbro no longer had the trademark, and it turned out they didn't have the one for Hot Rod (their first choice of backup plan) either. And so, the new name Hot Shot was born.
Btw, this is why existing names were slapped on Mini-Cons willy-nilly - it was trademark benchwarming.

Evil Eye wrote:It's also a shame a lot of the B-listers, when they DO get an appearance, get their OG toy bios ignored or overlooked. Case in point, Tailgate thinking mundane cars are sentient would be a great starting point for some hilarious antics. But in IDW that got overlooked entirely for, uh, making him gay for Cyclonus?
In fairness, some of those OG toy bios feel like Budiansky & co. were throwing stuff at a wall to see what stuck. Plus, while it has humorous moments... the 2005-2018 IDW continuity is all too often like most 21st-century live-action DCU films; it tends to take itself too seriously for its own good, and has gratuitous edge (and some dark things that seem about as mature as the Animated creators' attitude towards Beachcomber). So... gags like Tailgate thinking mundane cars are sentient would not have really fit unless IDW had its own version of Robo-Capers. I can see the Marvel comics (which could be guilty of gratuitous edge and darkness in their own right, but were not nearly as allergic to silly. "Bonk!" anyone?) using that gag, but not 2005-2018 IDW.

Given all that darkness, I won't begrudge light spots like that romance, plus I think there should be more of that in fiction in general. </soapbox>
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