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Ok lovebirds, lets do it like this, shall we?
-No Universal Bind, its all canon, none of its canon, take from the best of both worlds. Problem solved.

To be clear, this IS the same Starkiller who can pluck tie fighters out of mid flight with relative ease, and hurdle them into crowds of troopers?
The same one who went toe to toe with like, 50 Rancors?
The same one who can use the force to turn himself into a black hole? That Starkiller? If so, ding ding we have a winner. Luke cant do half that.

His "adaptability" wouldn't do much against a combination of everything above, plus Starkiller's abilities in combat, and application of the force IN combat.

BeastProwl wrote:Ok lovebirds, lets do it like this, shall we?
-No Universal Bind, its all canon, none of its canon, take from the best of both worlds. Problem solved.

To be clear, this IS the same Starkiller who can pluck tie fighters out of mid flight with relative ease, and hurdle them into crowds of troopers?
The same one who went toe to toe with like, 50 Rancors?
The same one who can use the force to turn himself into a black hole? That Starkiller? If so, ding ding we have a winner. Luke cant do half that.

His "adaptability" wouldn't do much against a combination of everything above, plus Starkiller's abilities in combat, and application of the force IN combat.

Then forget RotJ Luke. Grandmaster Luke still has this in the bag. He can tear the engines off of a Star Destroyer orbiting a world with just a thought. He can root himself to the heart of the Force to become the very essence of an immovable object, he can move so fast that a millisecond would be considered slow, he can join with the Force at will. He can bend time and space to teleport objects across the galaxy. I only used RotJ Luke to be fair to Starkiller. Any Luke set after the movies would wipe the floor with Starkiller.

That1smartdude wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:Ok lovebirds, lets do it like this, shall we?
-No Universal Bind, its all canon, none of its canon, take from the best of both worlds. Problem solved.

To be clear, this IS the same Starkiller who can pluck tie fighters out of mid flight with relative ease, and hurdle them into crowds of troopers?
The same one who went toe to toe with like, 50 Rancors?
The same one who can use the force to turn himself into a black hole? That Starkiller? If so, ding ding we have a winner. Luke cant do half that.

His "adaptability" wouldn't do much against a combination of everything above, plus Starkiller's abilities in combat, and application of the force IN combat.

Then forget RotJ Luke. Grandmaster Luke still has this in the bag. He can tear the engines off of a Star Destroyer orbiting a world with just a thought. He can root himself to the heart of the Force to become the very essence of an immovable object, he can move so fast that a millisecond would be considered slow, he can join with the Force at will. He can bend time and space to teleport objects across the galaxy. I only used RotJ Luke to be fair to Starkiller. Any Luke set after the movies would wipe the floor with Starkiller.

Amazing facts. I also like:

Some magicians can walk on water. Luke Skywalker can swim through land.

Luke Skywalker counted to infinity. Twice.

There is no theory of evolution. There's just a list of creatures Luke Skywalker has allowed to live.

Luke Skywalker can win a game of Connect4 in just three moves.

Blast Cannon wrote:

That1smartdude wrote:

BeastProwl wrote:Ok lovebirds, lets do it like this, shall we?
-No Universal Bind, its all canon, none of its canon, take from the best of both worlds. Problem solved.

To be clear, this IS the same Starkiller who can pluck tie fighters out of mid flight with relative ease, and hurdle them into crowds of troopers?
The same one who went toe to toe with like, 50 Rancors?
The same one who can use the force to turn himself into a black hole? That Starkiller? If so, ding ding we have a winner. Luke cant do half that.

His "adaptability" wouldn't do much against a combination of everything above, plus Starkiller's abilities in combat, and application of the force IN combat.

Then forget RotJ Luke. Grandmaster Luke still has this in the bag. He can tear the engines off of a Star Destroyer orbiting a world with just a thought. He can root himself to the heart of the Force to become the very essence of an immovable object, he can move so fast that a millisecond would be considered slow, he can join with the Force at will. He can bend time and space to teleport objects across the galaxy. I only used RotJ Luke to be fair to Starkiller. Any Luke set after the movies would wipe the floor with Starkiller.

Amazing facts. I also like:

Some magicians can walk on water. Luke Skywalker can swim through land.

Luke Skywalker counted to infinity. Twice.

There is no theory of evolution. There's just a list of creatures Luke Skywalker has allowed to live.

Luke Skywalker can win a game of Connect4 in just three moves.

Yes, Luke is basically the Chuck Norris of Star Wars. You're the one who said you were accepting all established canon. Those facts I listed come straight from various novels. I also forgot to mention that he reconstructed, then destroyed Vader's entire personal fortress through the Force alone, and has also walked on lava. If you're going to accept all existing canon, don't complain when I mention how freaking overpowered Luke is. Starkiller loses to Grandmaster Luke. Just accept it and move on. Personally, I'm not happy with how godly powerful they made Luke either, but at least I can accept it.

Well, wait a sec.
Force Unleashed 2 still happened, and Starkiller, or a more powerful clone of Starkiller, is still amongst the living to my knowledge. If we use the rate of his skill growth over the time period of the games/novels up with the period after the last movie, IF he's still alive and didn't give up on growing even stronger, couldn't he surpass or equal Luke on that level, theoretically?

BeastProwl wrote:Well, wait a sec.
Force Unleashed 2 still happened, and Starkiller, or a more powerful clone of Starkiller, is still amongst the living to my knowledge. If we use the rate of his skill growth over the time period of the games/novels up with the period after the last movie, IF he's still alive and didn't give up on growing even stronger, couldn't he surpass or equal Luke on that level, theoretically?

Starkiller and his clone are technically different characters. Now you're trying to pit multiple characters against Luke. Galen Marek's feats aren't necessarily the same feats as his clones. For example, the original Galen Marek beat Darth Vader in straight up swordplay, but his clone could not defeat Vader with a lightsaber and had to resort to other means in order to score the victory. Also, Luke's potential is limitless (As stated by George Lucas himself. The Chosen One is supposed to be capable of anything through the Force, and George Lucas stated Luke has the exact same potential as Anakin). Meanwhile, I'm fairly certain Starkiller has reached the limit of his potential. Until Force Unleashed 3 comes out, we have absolutely no way of knowing if Starkiller will ever get more powerful than we see in the games and novels, and so we must assume that he's reached his peak. Meanwhile, the EU Luke has become so powerful he's basically a god. Judging by the extent of the powers we've seen from EU Luke and Starkiller, Luke is still easily the victor in this battle. I do agree there's a possibility that Starkiller just might become more powerful with time, but this is a battle determined by the established canon, and established canon shows that Luke is infinitely more powerful than Starkiller. Nice thought, though. I really do look forward to how Starkiller turns out in the future. Believe it or not, I am actually a fan of The Force Unleashed games and novels, and I do like Starkiller as a character (Despite how much I've been against him in this vs.)

That1smartdude wrote:could not defeat Vader with a lightsaber and had to resort to other means in order to score the victory.

He still beat Vader, though. Both of them did. I'm not sure why you think switching up a fighting style counts as losing...

Shadowman wrote:

That1smartdude wrote:could not defeat Vader with a lightsaber and had to resort to other means in order to score the victory.

He still beat Vader, though. Both of them did. I'm not sure why you think switching up a fighting style counts as losing...

I didn't say he lost. I said that the clone could not beat Vader with a lightsaber. He instead had to use trickery and sheer luck (in the form of lightning being channeled from the storm above into the lightning rods nearby). The Starkiller clone still defeated Vader in the end, but he could not defeat Vader with pure lightsaber dueling. The original Starkiller, on the other hand, actually did manage to defeat Vader in a lightsaber duel.

That1smartdude wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

That1smartdude wrote:could not defeat Vader with a lightsaber and had to resort to other means in order to score the victory.

He still beat Vader, though. Both of them did. I'm not sure why you think switching up a fighting style counts as losing...

I didn't say he lost. I said that the clone could not beat Vader with a lightsaber. He instead had to use trickery and sheer luck (in the form of lightning being channeled from the storm above into the lightning rods nearby). The Starkiller clone still defeated Vader in the end, but he could not defeat Vader with pure lightsaber dueling. The original Starkiller, on the other hand, actually did manage to defeat Vader in a lightsaber duel.

So what? They both still beat Vader.

Shadowman wrote:

That1smartdude wrote:

Shadowman wrote:

That1smartdude wrote:could not defeat Vader with a lightsaber and had to resort to other means in order to score the victory.

He still beat Vader, though. Both of them did. I'm not sure why you think switching up a fighting style counts as losing...

I didn't say he lost. I said that the clone could not beat Vader with a lightsaber. He instead had to use trickery and sheer luck (in the form of lightning being channeled from the storm above into the lightning rods nearby). The Starkiller clone still defeated Vader in the end, but he could not defeat Vader with pure lightsaber dueling. The original Starkiller, on the other hand, actually did manage to defeat Vader in a lightsaber duel.

So what? They both still beat Vader.

The point was that they have different skills. Galen Marek was better with a lightsaber than his clone. Meanwhile, the clone was better at strategy, and possibly stronger in the Force. Thus, the two characters should be treated as separate people.

Shadowman wrote:

That1smartdude wrote:What do you mean, it only counts if I say it does?

You literally just said that the games don't count, only the books do. If you're going to try to argue that my points don't count because the games aren't "canon" and the books are, then I'm not going to bother with you anymore.

I said that because the books do take precedence over the games in terms of canon, just as the movies take precedence over the games. Do you count Luke slaying Sidious with a lightsaber in Super Return of the Jedi as canon? If we're counting games as the dominant form of canon, then Luke totally destroyed Sidious, while Starkiller was still left as a smoldering corpse at the end of the conflict. The reason the books take precedence is because gameplay is subject to change, while the books will be the same every time through. Which is also why the movies take precedence over any movie-related games as far as canon is concerned. Of course, if we're accepting all forms of canon, as I pointed out above, Luke still totally curbstomps Starkiller, thanks to all of Luke's EU feats.

I give it to Luke! Basically from what I read you are putting Starkiller at his most powerful state, Luke should be at his most powerful state as well. I think Starkiller would be a glowing hologram copy of his former self at the end of the fight. lol

I don't really think its a fair comparison.

Just using the now-canon material: Luke's movies were made when the lighstabers were supposed to weigh 20 pounds and the force was magic. Starkiller's from when the sabers were weightless and you could pull star destroyers into the ground.

Shadowman wrote:

Senor Hugo wrote:Well there is also the prophecy to look at. Anakin is the one who is supposed to bring balance to the force.

Kota knew of his destiny to help Starkiller, and Starkiller's destiny to create the rebellion.

So he probably also knew of Anakin's destiny.

Though I think Kota also knew that in Starkiller's current state at the end of TFU, had he killed the Emperor he would have been lost to the darkside. But, if Starkiller was calm, a nice Jedi apathetic calm, he probably wouldn't have stopped Starkiller.

I'm not sure how many people were still on board with the Prophecy after Order 66. Some weren't even on board before Order 66. (Mace Windu in parrticular)

That said, putting the alignment of Starkiller above the fate of the entire Galaxy is an extremely bad move on Kota's part.

In Star Wars Episode III: The Revenge of Sith even Yoda suggests the Jedi might have misunderstood or misread the prophecy.

The most impressive thing luke has likely ever done in a fight is not die when fighting sith lords in an elevator.

Star Wars Movie never really did combat in a way that is compatible with Starkillers "God like" abilities Vader scares the sh** out of everyone in Star Wars Rebels that is mainly due to his very very good telekinesis abilities on other things, he's actually pretty slow in and of himself though. He just throws things to compensate it seems.

I wouldn't hold much store by Lukes Chances when "Starkiller" can throw around Starships with the flick of a finger and Luke can barely do anything with the force bar leap about a bit and see the future a bit even at his best he had to have help to do what Starkiller could do on his own Luke has always seemed to me to be a lot less Powerful than Clone Wars era Anakin and even he was a bit pish (accept in the cartoons).

Be sure to send Leia some nice Flowers for the Funeral.

It's like saying who's going to win a wrestling match between the Incredible Hulk & Doogie Howzer.

No Jedi seems to have learned the simple lesson the easiest way to kill someone with "Magic" isn't big it's small - you pinch the blood vessels off to their brain, or you make all their muscles contract so much they break every bone in their body. or you simply make their heart beat so fast until it packs up. all this hitting each other with glowy sticks is good visuals but terrible strategy.

I suppose the excuse is that any decent force user would be able to resist and counter such effects but would the really be able to counter someone twisting their neck off with the force when they don't even see them first so no to be prepared ?

The closest we see to this sot of thing is a Vader's force choke.
which is in of itself likely a stupid thing to do as it distracts him to someone else attacking him, Vader is likely to polite to do that sort of stuff much though.

Some of you must have been reading some pretty obscure material as the Luke I've seen has always seemed to me to be barely more powerful than Kyle Katarn, If some dipstick has had him walking on Lava or reconstructing things with the force then they want to be fired immediately as that just plain silly - Starkiller gets away with it as I suspect "Force Unleashed" is actually an unacknowledged self parody of Star Wars & it's fans.

I still think this irredeemable nonsense is a parody too :
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Luke_Sky ... _of_Mindor

It's like someone had their Mary Sue Fan fic published. I don't think it's supposed to be funny - but is it - it's flipping hysterical the writing is so awful it's like George Lucas himself wrote it - I don't think the writers conceit that it's supposed to be written like an in universe novel based on real events told to us in a fictional way saves it from being complete cheesefest though - even if it's supposed to be... I don't usually facepalm at novels but this one made me angry that it even got published at all - especially as a hard cover.

Any Novel or Comic that was being especially silly with Luke's Powers or degrading Yoda (as they've done in recent years) is I feel missing the point and is just kissing the prequel's backside way to much.

Starkiller is actually a stalker called Snupe Catt, who once broke into Mark Hamill's house and wanked in one of Mark Hamill's socks. He was trying to get Mark Hamill's foot pregnant. He failed.

Puke Cryfarter wins.