JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?
I see what you did there.
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?
Burn wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?
I see what you did there.
JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Burn wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?
I see what you did there.
Sigh...
Va'al wrote:Deadput wrote:Actually I don't know my mother's name is Valerie so is Va'al actually my mother?
Yes. Now go to your room and don't play with yourself.
Burn wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:Burn wrote:JelZe GoldRabbit wrote:go out with a bang?
I see what you did there.
Sigh...
Oh lighten up buttercup. FFS, I was just trying to have a bit of fun.
Deadput wrote:I thought Legends would keep on going considering that it did not start with Titans returns figures but rather it started with thrilling 30 and continued on to the Titans return toys.
Black Hat wrote:Mini-rant.
Two problems with that hypothesis, primalxconvoy.
1: Nudity gags are incredibly common in Japanese media, in much the same way as fart jokes in Western media (fun fact: for centuries, Japan had literally no nudity taboo at all, and in Japanese mythology nudity is usually associated with purity. Associating nudity with sexuality was a Western import).
"...Despite the lack of taboos on public nudity, traditional Japanese art seldom depicted nude individuals except for paintings of bathhouses. When the first embassies opened in Western countries in the late 19th century, Japanese dignitaries were shocked and offended at the European predilection for nude statues and busts. However, Japanese students traveling to Europe to study became exposed to Western art and its frequent nudity. In 1894, Kuroda Seikia was the first Japanese artist to publicly exhibit a painting of a nude woman grooming herself. The work caused a public uproar, but gradually nudity became more accepted in Japanese art and by the 1910s, it was commonplace and acceptable as long as pubic hair was not shown. By the 1930s, pubes were accepted as long as they were not overly detailed or the main focus of the picture.
In traditional Japanese culture, nudity was typically associated with the lower class of society, i.e. those who performed manual labor and frequently wore little when the weather permitted. The upper class, for comparison, were expected to be modest and fully clothed, with fine clothing in particular considered more erotic than nudity itself. After the Meiji Restoration, upper-class Japanese began adopting Western clothing, which included underwear, something not part of the traditional Japanese wardrobe except for loincloths worn by men..."
2: Whilst the chronology in the Legends universe is all over the place, it's HEAVILY implied that most of the cast are older than they were in their respective debut media (case in point, Shaoshao Li is now 30 in the Legends verse).
It's also worth noting that Sakamoto-senpai is very familiar with the Western fanbase (especially by Japanese standards) and even reads the Wiki. So, combined with the fact that a lot of Japanese really, REALLY resent Western PC culture (remember the reaction to the UN's wibbling over the rights of fictional women whilst they had SAUDI ARABIA at the head of their women's rights council?), there's every chance he's literally putting that stuff in solely to wind up over-sensitive numpties on the internet.
So if you really want to stick it to "Sikomofo" the BEST thing you can do is just keep your hair on and not whine about it.
primalxconvoy wrote:NOTE TO ADMINS: - I'm using spoiler tags to hide a long post, but it doesn't seem to be working. Any help in doing so, to help others reduce scrolling would be helpful. Presently, it just puts blocks over the text, rather than behind the word "SPOILER" (like other sites do)Black Hat wrote:Mini-rant.
Two problems with that hypothesis, primalxconvoy.
1: Nudity gags are incredibly common in Japanese media, in much the same way as fart jokes in Western media (fun fact: for centuries, Japan had literally no nudity taboo at all, and in Japanese mythology nudity is usually associated with purity. Associating nudity with sexuality was a Western import).
According to Wikipedia, you are partially right. Japan, like most places in the world, was affected by trade and contact with other cultures and nations. This isn't really any different from the UK adopting Roman roads, or India receiving railways from the UK (although the methods in which countries like the UK used is debatable).
However,in portrayals of nudity in Japanese media, it's a different matter:
-"...Despite the lack of taboos on public nudity, traditional Japanese art seldom depicted nude individuals except for paintings of bathhouses. When the first embassies opened in Western countries in the late 19th century, Japanese dignitaries were shocked and offended at the European predilection for nude statues and busts. However, Japanese students traveling to Europe to study became exposed to Western art and its frequent nudity. In 1894, Kuroda Seikia was the first Japanese artist to publicly exhibit a painting of a nude woman grooming herself. The work caused a public uproar, but gradually nudity became more accepted in Japanese art and by the 1910s, it was commonplace and acceptable as long as pubic hair was not shown. By the 1930s, pubes were accepted as long as they were not overly detailed or the main focus of the picture.
In traditional Japanese culture, nudity was typically associated with the lower class of society, i.e. those who performed manual labor and frequently wore little when the weather permitted. The upper class, for comparison, were expected to be modest and fully clothed, with fine clothing in particular considered more erotic than nudity itself. After the Meiji Restoration, upper-class Japanese began adopting Western clothing, which included underwear, something not part of the traditional Japanese wardrobe except for loincloths worn by men..."
(Source: - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/History_of_nudity )
Also, as this is about FEMALE depictions of nudity, abd how women seem to be treated differently from a male viewpoint in Japan, then feel free to read this article on how "open and carefree Japan is on female nudity in art":
- https://www.japantimes.co.jp/news/2017/ ... iXQOmjqbV4
Personally, I've got a print of a pixellated Tokyo, featuring naked males and females, made by "eBoy" (a German design company) on the wall of my living room, and I'd love to have some of that vagina art on my wall, too. I'm not against nudity or expression in art. However, it could be said that Sikomofo's depictions represent male-dominated views of women being subservient, sexually available and looking or being young/youthful/underage.
Also, here is an opinion piece on how it's believed that male-dominating rules on pornography/nudity are in place to hinder women from enjoying nudity abd sexuality in Japanese media, rather than men:
- http://www.comicsbeat.com/japanese-sexu ... r-illegal/
Regardless, using past depictions to state present ones is not really helpful here. A similar argument could also be used to state that using the "N-Word" in English prose today is fine because it was used in books many years ago (such as books by Mark Twain).
Also, I stated that the issue is more complex than that. Is it just the nudity that is a problem, the degrees in which it is shown or the constant use of only FEMALES, rather than males? Japanese manga and cartoons have had a healthy history of using naked males in cartoons and comics, but Sikomofo hasn't.2: Whilst the chronology in the Legends universe is all over the place, it's HEAVILY implied that most of the cast are older than they were in their respective debut media (case in point, Shaoshao Li is now 30 in the Legends verse).
Regardless of saying how old she is meant to be, looking at the way said females are exclusively drawn in these comics gives a contrary image. They LOOK underage, which is a deliberate ploy by the artist. Stating that they are "old enough", next to the pictures is like calling a 3P Optimus Prime "Not Optimus Prime", or for using "Not Mother and Not Son" in some adult video title.It's also worth noting that Sakamoto-senpai is very familiar with the Western fanbase (especially by Japanese standards) and even reads the Wiki. So, combined with the fact that a lot of Japanese really, REALLY resent Western PC culture (remember the reaction to the UN's wibbling over the rights of fictional women whilst they had SAUDI ARABIA at the head of their women's rights council?), there's every chance he's literally putting that stuff in solely to wind up over-sensitive numpties on the internet.
Firstly, I think you meant to write "sensei" instead of "sempai" (Sensei is used, if wanted, for, say a major or senior artist, at least by some people). I agree somewhat, that Sikomofo is "trolling" people (that's what someone I know, who's worked with him, believes). However, if true, is that good business? Should Takara really be making media (especially media that's included with the products that they're trying to sell) that's trolling part of their customer base, however small it may be? Should Hasbro go back to using "spastic" in toy bios, just for "teh lulz"?
Secondly, I don't agree with your views on "most Japanese people". Where is your evidence? It's too broad a statement, without any links or evidence to back up the claim. However, I believe that most Japanese people don't agree with Sikomofo's depictions of females, in the context of a comic that's inside toys sold to children. This is because the ones I've spoken with (and ones other Japanese have spoken to on my behalf) felt just as uncomfortable add myself and also because Japanese people, not just foreigners, have been behind changes to child pornography laws in Japan, for example.
However, if you are talking about the Japanese government (with regards to the UN), then I would say that any given government isn't always an accurate reflection of its people. The LDP just recently blocked/neutered a law that would ban smoking in all bars and restaurants in Japan (to make Japan more hospitable to foreign tourists for the upcoming Olympic Games in Japan). Even though this was wanted by many other non-smoking Japanese people, the LDP blocked it. Why? Probably due to the LDP having close links with Japan Tobacco...So if you really want to stick it to "Sikomofo" the BEST thing you can do is just keep your hair on and not whine about it.
Not really. The best thing I can do is to take action, including giving my opinions and criticising it online. However, you are more than welcome to take your own advice regarding my views, if you wish.
Moving SWIFTLY on...
Black Hat wrote:Firstly, no, I meant senpai. Sakamoto is a wonderful man and I have nothing but admiration for him. The salt that flows forth when he draws his silly comics is glorious.
Secondly, yes, Takara should be actively trying to excise the fools that whine about "le problematic depictions of [minority of the week here]" from the fanbase. Modern day Marvel is an example of what happens if the cancer is allowed to set in. If a few self-entitled morons are going to quit Transformers because of some cartoon boobs, they probably didn't belong in the fandom to begin with. Besides, if we're talking about "problematic" content then how about IDW, with its graphic violence (poor Ambulon)? Heck, one could argue that the normalization of homosexual relations in IDW is "problematic"- there's probably far more people offended by the gay relationships in IDW than by a few silly illustrations of boobs. Or do they not count because they're icky conservatives?
Thirdly, "They LOOK underage" is not an argument. Mainly because aside from basic "big head with big eyes" manga stylings they...really don't. They're not even particularly alluring images- the fact you interpret a clearly comedic image as sexual says a lot more about you than it does about Sakamoto.
Finally, congratulations on missing my point entirely. You "taking action" is just going to give Sakamoto and his fans (myself included) more laughter. There is precisely nothing you can do to stop Sakamoto from exercising his reasonable right to draw silly comics advertising plastic toys, and by continuing to do so you are actively sh*tting up the discussion forum and making a complete idiot of yourself. If you really enjoy humiliating yourself then by all means carry on, but realize you're probably going to turn yourself into a complete laughing stock. You're also making it impossible for those who actually want to, you know, just talk about our silly robot comics to do so, and you're likely to make quite a few people very, very angry.
To sum up: Don't be daft lad.
Black Hat wrote:Firstly, no, I meant senpai. Sakamoto is a wonderful man and I have nothing but admiration for him. The salt that flows forth when he draws his silly comics is glorious.
Secondly, yes, Takara should be actively trying to excise the fools that whine about "the problematic depictions of [minority of the week here]" from the fanbase. Modern day Marvel is an example of what happens if the cancer is allowed to set in. If a few self-entitled morons are going to quit Transformers because of some cartoon boobs, they probably didn't belong in the fandom to begin with.
"If we're talking about "problematic" content then how about IDW, with its graphic violence (poor Ambulon)? Heck, one could argue that the normalization of homosexual relations in IDW is "problematic"- there's probably far more people offended by the gay relationships in IDW than by a few silly illustrations of boobs. Or do they not count because they're icky conservatives?
Thirdly, "They LOOK underage" is not an argument. Mainly because aside from basic "big head with big eyes" manga stylings they...really don't. They're not even particularly alluring images- the fact you interpret a clearly comedic image as sexual says a lot more about you than it does about Sakamoto.
Finally, congratulations on missing my point entirely. You "taking action" is just going to give Sakamoto and his fans (myself included) more laughter. There is precisely nothing you can do to stop Sakamoto from exercising his reasonable right to draw silly comics advertising plastic toys, and by continuing to do so you are actively sh*tting up the discussion forum and making a complete idiot of yourself. If you really enjoy humiliating yourself then by all means carry on, but realize you're probably going to turn yourself into a complete laughing stock. You're also making it impossible for those who actually want to, you know, just talk about our silly robot comics to do so, and you're likely to make quite a few people very, very angry.
To sum up: Don't be daft lad.
Michael Alex Kawa wrote:First off I would like to give a big THANK YOU to Hayato Sakamoto
Your art is so awesome, and considering that I love Minerva I have no problems seeing "more of" her in your comics.
And second I would like to say I completely agree with Black Hat. I was going to bring up the IDW comics as well, and how everyone doesn't question them, but most likely my words would not have been as "nice" to say the least. But it is nice to know I am not alone in loving the art in these Legend comics.
Michael Alex Kawa wrote:I always love when someone "questions" the current "relationships" in the IDW Universe, the response is always "they are gender-less".
Using that mindset, I could say what is the big deal with how T-AI is portrayed in these Legend comics, since she is really just a "hologram image".
Or in all reality all of these characters in these comics (Legends/IDW/whatever), don't exist, and they are just lines on a piece of paper. It is all in how we perceive these "lines" in our mind and how we interpret them.
And what my mind sees is a girl with a nice a** taking a shower,
and you really don't want to know how I perceive the "relationships" in the IDW Universe....you really really don't.
primalxconvoy wrote:Michael Alex Kawa wrote:I always love when someone "questions" the current "relationships" in the IDW Universe, the response is always "they are gender-less".
Using that mindset, I could say what is the big deal with how T-AI is portrayed in these Legend comics, since she is really just a "hologram image".
Or in all reality all of these characters in these comics (Legends/IDW/whatever), don't exist, and they are just lines on a piece of paper. It is all in how we perceive these "lines" in our mind and how we interpret them.
And what my mind sees is a girl with a nice a** taking a shower,
and you really don't want to know how I perceive the "relationships" in the IDW Universe....you really really don't.
That wasn't my point. In science fiction, a common (trope?) is to use ambiguity to tackle social, political issues, etc. Robots, aliens with extra genders, brings from other dimensions, etc can all be used to allow people in our world to consider alternate ideas and opinions equally.
Thus, taboo subjects can be discussed. In the case of the IDW story, the universe features two genderless robots dealing with a taboo relationship in their own culture. In our world, this can reflect a number of issues, from homosexual, bisexual, inter-racial, etc relationships (although, for the sake of argument, let's assume it's only homosexual). Thus, in the IDW stories, real life issues were explored via an ambiguous framework. It's a way to allow readers to all be on the same page, even ones who have issues with (homosexuality) in the real world. So to, with things like "Primus" (religion), "Arcee" (gender, transgender, identity, etc).
With things like AI in RID, in that universe, she is a female artificial intelligence, which, depending on the stories, media or PVC figurine discussed, has been treated as a sexual object, usually without her knowledge or permission. However, in that universe, unlike the IDW stories, there was little or no story too give reasons for such behavior, nor any noticable repurcussions. There was no ambiguity used, not any social commentary, as far as I am aware.
Which one do you think was more effective in conveying a story, or dealing with issues such as gender, identity, different perspectives on morality, etc?
primalxconvoy wrote:That's a very valid point. Like I said before, (regardless of it being right or wrong), I don't like having a black Matt Tracker, but I'm not against the notion of having a non-white leader for MASK, or exploring that issue (which I should really discuss in a relevant thread). I felt that the respect for the original subject matter wasn't given and changes were made to MASK arbitrarily.
In the case of the Legends comics, the staff go to great lengths, even in this parody style universe, to explain EVERY facet of TF lore. Sikomofo is known to have an almost encyclopedic knowledge of TF lore, so why can't he also use his skills to acknowledge traditional Japanese conventions whilst bringing it to a more modern audience. In essence, exactly what he's doing with marrying new toys with established lore? Have Minerva "perv" at the boys, or have the boys perv at a transformer by mistake (and get scolded for it), have older versions of the characters wax lyrical about the good old days, only for the females to tell them to "get with the times", or something else.
As for the "kick ass Mary Sue" then I agree somewhat. It's perfectly feasible to have a physically strong female, such as She Hulk, Beast Machines Strika, etc. In fact, I introduced my Japanese preschool learners to He-Man and She-Ra. They are around 3-5 years old and the girls love Disney Princesses. They now LOVE She-Ra and want to be strong, like her, Moanna and Elsa. The boys and girls in my class get treated the same as I want all of them to be brave, strong, caring and smart (which they all are).
However, it's all about context. Those characters are strong for a reason, whereas I think you're saying that it's almost ANY female in media these days that seems to be able to fight men twice their size in the same style of combat and win. I take issue with that. It doesn't show how a physically weaker or smaller opponent can actually win a fight against one that is stronger or bigger. It's like showing Indiana Jones winning a sword fight, instead of just "shooting first" (honestly, didn't that sword guy watch Star Wars?)
I think some people here are worried that their values and/or beloved hobbies are becoming increasingly generic and lost to "PC gone mad", but there IS a way to balance traditional ideas with modern sensibilities, or for different cultures to find common ground and make stuff that's accessible for all.
Thanks for your honest post!
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
Long ago, the Three Wise Ones arrive on the planet Beast and use their power, crystallized in several gemstones, to build an underground city and create various inventions. To protect the planet they create the Laser Beasts, a technological civilization that lives underground, but the Laser Beasts' hearts are as cold and merciless as machines. Seeking to create a warmhearted, peaceful society, a group of Laser Beasts venture to the surface where their descendants evolve into the Beastformers, a new race that later gets embroiled in the Transformers' war. Many Beastformers are mind-controlled into becoming Decepticon Beasts, and the Autobot Beasts battle them in a war of their own until their leader, White Leo, bests Cobrander and undoes the mind control.
The peace on Beast is fleeting, however, as a natural disaster heralds the emergence of the Laser Beasts from the underground, come to conquer the surface world, and another war breaks out. The power of their machines overwhelms the Beastformers, who lose most of their countries to the invaders, but during their final stand, reinforcements arrive in the form of the Autobot Monsterbots and Headmaster Teens. After the Laser Beasts retreat in the face of Transformers, their Emperor, Tigerburn, desires the robots' power and devises a plan to take it for himself using one of the Three Wise Ones' gems. By exposing the Headmaster Teens to the gem's power, he merges his body with that of Lione while two of his soldiers do the same with Shuffler and Toraizer, turning the three Laser Beasts into fully robotic Headmasters. With their newfound strength, they capture the Beastformers' Head Hunter vehicles and use them to decapitate the Monsterbots in search of bodies to control, though not before Doublecross snatches the gems for the Beastformers' side. White Leo is then contacted by Platinum Tiger, who tells him that hope for victory lies in an alternate dimension filled with Beast Power: the Legends World.
Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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