Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby zodconvoy » Sun Jan 04, 2015 1:29 pm

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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Dead Metal » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:03 pm

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The box and instructions just call it Exosuite, but apparently Takara's recent Masterpiece book is very insistent on it being Daniel.
Logically you'd expect it to be Spike, due to him and BB being in the Movie together, but actually, looking at the (crappy) head sculpt, it does look more like Daniel than Spike.

Oh, and should anyone care, this guy on tfw makes filler parts to hide the gaps in BB's forearms.
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transform ... m-fix.html
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby shajaki » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:10 pm

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zodconvoy wrote:Can we please stop talking about Schrodinger's Witwicky?
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby megatronus » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:17 pm

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Dead Metal wrote:The box and instructions just call it Exosuite, but apparently Takara's recent Masterpiece book is very insistent on it being Daniel.
Logically you'd expect it to be Spike, due to him and BB being in the Movie together, but actually, looking at the (crappy) head sculpt, it does look more like Daniel than Spike.

Oh, and should anyone care, this guy on tfw makes filler parts to hide the gaps in BB's forearms.
http://www.tfw2005.com/boards/transform ... m-fix.html

For 6.75 shipped, I'm definitely considering those forearm covers. They look pretty nice.

As far as the exosuit, I'm getting the Dr. Wu replacement heads. More expensive than what we got, but at least it means Spike/Daniel won't look like melted wax.
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Burn » Sun Jan 04, 2015 2:56 pm

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sol magnus wrote:In any event, I find it interesting Australian TRU stores get Takara Tomy product...and that its priced so...flexibly.


Australia has been receiving a mix of Takara Tomy and Hasbro MP's off and on since Takara Tomy MP-02 was a Target exclusive (it didn't sell too well)

TRU Australia has now taken the Masterpieces on-board exclusively. The price is about standard for them.

I shudder to think what Ultra Magnus will be when he's released here (which he will be - heads up there News Crew) given that Seekers went for around $150AU back in the day.
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby sol magnus » Sun Jan 04, 2015 3:17 pm

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The forearms don't really bother me, since the way I pose 'Bee you can't really the empty slots. Still, I like the initiative the guy put in on it, and I like custom Masterpiece parts where applicable so I'm going to order a set.
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Diem » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:06 pm

Dead Metal wrote:The box and instructions just call it Exosuite,


Au contraire, mon amie. The box DOES say it's Spike.

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"ExcelSuits no Spike mo henkei"

Roughly translated: "ExcelSuit Spike, also transforms"
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:16 pm

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Diem wrote:
Dead Metal wrote:The box and instructions just call it Exosuite,


Au contraire, mon amie. The box DOES say it's Spike.

Image

"ExcelSuits no Spike mo henkei"

Roughly translated: "ExcelSuit Spike, also transforms"
Sorry, Diem, but that mentioning of Spike on the box holds no water.

エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 = "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku mo henkei." = "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." That's all the box image caption says, which isn't wrong since both of the suits worn by Spike and Daniel in the movie belonged to Spike.

The instructions for the suit contain a description for the Exosuit itself (rather than for the person inside the suit, which only mentions both Daniel and Spike as examples of people who have worn it.

The toy itself is identified as just "Exo-Suit", but the head of the user is definitely more Daniel-like than Spike-like.

And the Headmasters cartoon screencap that accompanies the write up in the instructions shows Daniel as the one in the suit rather than Spike.
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Diem » Sun Jan 04, 2015 8:32 pm

Sabrblade wrote:Sorry, Diem, but that mentioning of Spike on the box holds no water.

エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 = "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku mo henkei." = "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." That's all the box image caption says, which isn't wrong since both of the suits worn by Spike and Daniel in the movie belonged to Spike.


It says エクセルスートのスパイク, not スパイクのエクセルスート. I'm not exactly fluent in Japanese but I'm pretty damn sure that means it translates to "ExcelSuited Spike", not "Spike's ExcelSuit"
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:08 pm

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Diem wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Sorry, Diem, but that mentioning of Spike on the box holds no water.

エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 = "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku mo henkei." = "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." That's all the box image caption says, which isn't wrong since both of the suits worn by Spike and Daniel in the movie belonged to Spike.


It says エクセルスートスパイク, not スパイクのエクセルスート. I'm not exactly fluent in Japanese but I'm pretty damn sure that means it translates to "ExcelSuited Spike", not "Spike's ExcelSuit"
That's how Japanese sentence structure works. "Excel Suit no Spike" means "Spike's Excel Suit" or "The Excel Suit of Spike". の ("no") is a word that shows possessive description. In this case, it refers to the Excel Suit as belonging to Spike.

To get "Excel Suit Spike" (or "Excel Suited Spike", if you prefer), it would have to say "エクセルスートスパイク" (Ekuseru Suuto Supaiku).
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Diem » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:29 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
Diem wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Sorry, Diem, but that mentioning of Spike on the box holds no water.

エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 = "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku mo henkei." = "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." That's all the box image caption says, which isn't wrong since both of the suits worn by Spike and Daniel in the movie belonged to Spike.


It says エクセルスートスパイク, not スパイクのエクセルスート. I'm not exactly fluent in Japanese but I'm pretty damn sure that means it translates to "ExcelSuited Spike", not "Spike's ExcelSuit"
That's how Japanese sentence structure works. "Excel Suit no Spike" means "Spike's Excel Suit" or "The Excel Suit of Spike". の ("no") is a word that shows possessive description. In this case, it refers to the Excel Suit as belonging to Spike.

To get "Excel Suit Spike" (or "Excel Suited Spike", if you prefer), it would have to say "エクセルスートスパイク" (Ekuseru Suuto Supaiku).


The の certainly is a possessive modifier but it depends on word order. If it's (person)の(item) then yes, it absolutely means that the item (which is the subject of the sentence) belongs to the person, in which case it would be Spike's ExcelSuit.

But in this case it's (item)no(person), which means the person is the subject of the sentence and the item is treated as an adjective. For example the famous movie "Akai Kami No Onna" which translates to "The Woman with the Red Hair", not "The woman's red hair", or "Tonari no Totoro" which translates to "Neighbour Totoro", not "Totoro's next door". As such, "ExcelSuit no Spike" would be "Spike, with the ExcelSuit" not "Spike's ExcelSuit".

Gotta remember that the part that comes after the の is the subject of the sentence!
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby william-james88 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:32 pm

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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby fenrir72 » Sun Jan 04, 2015 9:39 pm

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Diem wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Diem wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Sorry, Diem, but that mentioning of Spike on the box holds no water.

エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 = "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku mo henkei." = "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." That's all the box image caption says, which isn't wrong since both of the suits worn by Spike and Daniel in the movie belonged to Spike.


It says エクセルスートスパイク, not スパイクのエクセルスート. I'm not exactly fluent in Japanese but I'm pretty damn sure that means it translates to "ExcelSuited Spike", not "Spike's ExcelSuit"
That's how Japanese sentence structure works. "Excel Suit no Spike" means "Spike's Excel Suit" or "The Excel Suit of Spike". の ("no") is a word that shows possessive description. In this case, it refers to the Excel Suit as belonging to Spike.

To get "Excel Suit Spike" (or "Excel Suited Spike", if you prefer), it would have to say "エクセルスートスパイク" (Ekuseru Suuto Supaiku).


The の certainly is a possessive modifier but it depends on word order. If it's (person)の(item) then yes, it absolutely means that the item (which is the subject of the sentence) belongs to the person, in which case it would be Spike's ExcelSuit.

But in this case it's (item)no(person), which means the person is the subject of the sentence and the item is treated as an adjective. For example the famous movie "Akai Kami No Onna" which translates to "The Woman with the Red Hair", not "The woman's red hair", or "Tonari no Totoro" which translates to "Neighbour Totoro", not "Totoro's next door". As such, "ExcelSuit no Spike" would be "Spike, with the ExcelSuit" not "Spike's ExcelSuit".

Gotta remember that the part that comes after the の is the subject of the sentence!


Either way, as stated in Junkion, Arcee called it Spike's Exo-suit. So it is technically accurate. The suit Daniel wore was also used by Spike sometime between 1986 to 2005. When he grew up, size requiremnts had to be adjusted, so Spike upgraded into a bigger one.

As for "who" is the soft chewy human pilot, we better ask Yuki or somebody at Tomy/Takara to clear this up?
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Diem » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:00 pm

fenrir72 wrote:
Diem wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Diem wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Sorry, Diem, but that mentioning of Spike on the box holds no water.

エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 = "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku mo henkei." = "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." That's all the box image caption says, which isn't wrong since both of the suits worn by Spike and Daniel in the movie belonged to Spike.


It says エクセルスートスパイク, not スパイクのエクセルスート. I'm not exactly fluent in Japanese but I'm pretty damn sure that means it translates to "ExcelSuited Spike", not "Spike's ExcelSuit"
That's how Japanese sentence structure works. "Excel Suit no Spike" means "Spike's Excel Suit" or "The Excel Suit of Spike". の ("no") is a word that shows possessive description. In this case, it refers to the Excel Suit as belonging to Spike.

To get "Excel Suit Spike" (or "Excel Suited Spike", if you prefer), it would have to say "エクセルスートスパイク" (Ekuseru Suuto Supaiku).


The の certainly is a possessive modifier but it depends on word order. If it's (person)の(item) then yes, it absolutely means that the item (which is the subject of the sentence) belongs to the person, in which case it would be Spike's ExcelSuit.

But in this case it's (item)no(person), which means the person is the subject of the sentence and the item is treated as an adjective. For example the famous movie "Akai Kami No Onna" which translates to "The Woman with the Red Hair", not "The woman's red hair", or "Tonari no Totoro" which translates to "Neighbour Totoro", not "Totoro's next door". As such, "ExcelSuit no Spike" would be "Spike, with the ExcelSuit" not "Spike's ExcelSuit".

Gotta remember that the part that comes after the の is the subject of the sentence!


Either way, as stated in Junkion, Arcee called it Spike's Exo-suit. So it is technically accurate. The suit Daniel wore was also used by Spike sometime between 1986 to 2005. When he grew up, size requiremnts had to be adjusted, so Spike upgraded into a bigger one.

As for "who" is the soft chewy human pilot, we better ask Yuki or somebody at Tomy/Takara to clear this up?


Does the designer count? Shogo Hasui says it's Spike:

https://twitter.com/hasui_tf/status/446481661669015552
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Jan 04, 2015 10:08 pm

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I will admit that the translation is not perfect, and that more literally the phrase "エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。" would translate to "The Excel Suit of Spike also transforms." But as that's wonky English, it is not too much of a stretch to rephrase this English translation to sound more natural in a native English tongue, resulting in "Spike's Excel Suit". Plus, considering that the rest of the packaging and instructions all refer to the suit itself as the primary marketed subject of the set (aside from Bumble, that is), it would not make sense for that one little image caption to treat Spike as the center of attention against all of the other packing material doing so for the suit.

As I noted previously, there is a description in the instructions that, for any other MP toy, would normally be a character description. But in this toy's case, it's a description of the suit itself, rather than the character inside it.

Image

Though it does mention both Daniel and Spike, it only mentions them as examples of those who have worn the suit.

And the accompanying cartoon image of its vehicle mode shows Daniel inside it.

Image
Image

Plus, the line art in the Official Masterpiece Guide Book unambiguously shows Daniel as the one inside the suit:

Image

With all this info stacked towards Daniel being the one in the suit, and with the toy itself officially being marketed by its own packing material as not even a character but instead a piece of equipment just named "Exo-Suit", it seems highly illogical that that one image caption should be interpreted as intending to contradict the rest of the set.

Diem wrote:Does the designer count? Shogo Hasui says it's Spike:

https://twitter.com/hasui_tf/status/446481661669015552
He may have intended for it to be Spike, but the end result goes against his intentions. We think there must have been some sort of a slip up during the design process that resulted in the toy's head looking more like Daniel instead. But either way, authorial intent is psuedo-official at best. After all, the toy's official name is "Exo-Suit" anyway, so as far as the toy itself is concerned, its true identity is the suit itself, rather than the person inside it.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby shajaki » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:01 pm

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william-james88 wrote:I don't know who's schooling who.
me neither. but hasnt there already been 2 pages of debate dedicated to this already? wasnt the mystery solved?
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:03 pm

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shajaki wrote:
william-james88 wrote:I don't know who's schooling who.
me neither. but hasnt there already been 2 pages of debate dedicated to this already? wasnt the mystery solved?
In the Masterpiece gallery thread.
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Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Diem » Sun Jan 04, 2015 11:19 pm

Sabrblade wrote:I will admit that the translation is not perfect, and that more literally the phrase "エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。" would translate to "The Excel Suit of Spike also transforms." But as that's wonky English, it is not too much of a stretch to rephrase this English translation to sound more natural in a native English tongue, resulting in "Spike's Excel Suit".


It would be more like "Spike of the Excel Suit also transforms.". But hey, we're never going to get a clear answer. Except for that it totally says it's Spike on the box, and the designer said it's Spike, and every Japanese blog I've read on it says its Spike, and the eHobby site says that the suit is the "Spike version", and all the western sites that had orders for this figure had it listed as Bumblebee and Spike. But hey, it could be Daniel. :)
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby fenrir72 » Mon Jan 05, 2015 1:08 am

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Diem wrote:
fenrir72 wrote:
Diem wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Diem wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:Sorry, Diem, but that mentioning of Spike on the box holds no water.

エクセルスートのスパイクも変形。 = "Ekuseru Suuto no Supaiku mo henkei." = "Spike's Excel Suit also transforms." That's all the box image caption says, which isn't wrong since both of the suits worn by Spike and Daniel in the movie belonged to Spike.


It says エクセルスートスパイク, not スパイクのエクセルスート. I'm not exactly fluent in Japanese but I'm pretty damn sure that means it translates to "ExcelSuited Spike", not "Spike's ExcelSuit"
That's how Japanese sentence structure works. "Excel Suit no Spike" means "Spike's Excel Suit" or "The Excel Suit of Spike". の ("no") is a word that shows possessive description. In this case, it refers to the Excel Suit as belonging to Spike.

To get "Excel Suit Spike" (or "Excel Suited Spike", if you prefer), it would have to say "エクセルスートスパイク" (Ekuseru Suuto Supaiku).


The の certainly is a possessive modifier but it depends on word order. If it's (person)の(item) then yes, it absolutely means that the item (which is the subject of the sentence) belongs to the person, in which case it would be Spike's ExcelSuit.

But in this case it's (item)no(person), which means the person is the subject of the sentence and the item is treated as an adjective. For example the famous movie "Akai Kami No Onna" which translates to "The Woman with the Red Hair", not "The woman's red hair", or "Tonari no Totoro" which translates to "Neighbour Totoro", not "Totoro's next door". As such, "ExcelSuit no Spike" would be "Spike, with the ExcelSuit" not "Spike's ExcelSuit".

Gotta remember that the part that comes after the の is the subject of the sentence!


Either way, as stated in Junkion, Arcee called it Spike's Exo-suit. So it is technically accurate. The suit Daniel wore was also used by Spike sometime between 1986 to 2005. When he grew up, size requiremnts had to be adjusted, so Spike upgraded into a bigger one.

As for "who" is the soft chewy human pilot, we better ask Yuki or somebody at Tomy/Takara to clear this up?


Does the designer count? Shogo Hasui says it's Spike:

https://twitter.com/hasui_tf/status/446481661669015552


Sabrblade mentioned about authorial content but what eventually began in the drawing board doesn't end as such but to maybe put to rest this discussion, was this TM or registered in Japan? If it is officially registerd as [ Spike ] or [ Daniel ] then let the dominos fall into their proper place.

Maybe a super sleuth at Japan's patent office coulddig up the patent papers or an interview with the headhoncho of Takara's MP team will clear things up.

Anyone know someone in Japan's patents office or a byline at Tomy?
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby ScottyP » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:27 am

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The Exo-Suit doesn't have a face anyway. For all I know, it's Exo-Suit Wayne Gretzky.
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Cyberpath » Mon Jan 05, 2015 7:59 am

"Spike with the ExcelSuit" or "Spike's ExcelSuit" -- I don't think the exact translation matters -- if it were Daniel inside it would have likely said his name instead.


I think the screencap from "Headmasters" illustrates the suit's ability to transform, rather than the identity of the character inside.

As others have mentioned, Spike & Bumblebee are best friends; and the creator of the toy referred to it as "Spike," so works for me. :)

It's going to be Spike with the MP Autobots, and Daniel with Legends Arcee. ;)
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Va'al » Mon Jan 05, 2015 8:38 am

Motto: "Till All Are Pun!"
It has no face.

It must be Shia LaBoeuf.

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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Dead Metal » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:09 pm

Motto: "Don't do drugs, beer's cheaper anyway!"
Va'al wrote:It has no face.

It must be Shia LaBoeuf.

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And suddenly this is kinda relevant once more
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Jeep! wrote:Why do I imagine Dead Metal sounding exactly like Arnie?
Intah-wib-buls?

Blurrz wrote:10/10

Leave it to Dead Metal to have the word 'Pronz' in his signature.
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Va'al » Mon Jan 05, 2015 12:11 pm

Motto: "Till All Are Pun!"
It IS Shia LaBeouf! :shock:
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Re: Takara Tomy Masterpiece MP-21 Bumblebee Discussion

Postby Flashwave » Wed Jan 07, 2015 6:21 pm

Motto: "Our society's downfall will not be this war. The war IS our society. That which will get us will be the little things. Some humanoid race, some tossed cannon, the little things that no one looks out for. THAT is for what we must be vigilant."
Weapon: Twin Shoulder-Mounted Rocket Launchers
So, has this dam Exosuit become the 21st Century version of Rumble/Frenzy?
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