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[Flashwave]

It's both great and surprising that this very G1 tail ending character,set Big Powered has sparked such a great interest even among G1 hating fans.

This be good!

I think a lot of people were looking for a breath of fresh air from siege and this is as zany and obscure as you can probably get

I'd argue when people mean 'G1' most of the time they mean the Cartoon from season 1 to 3. Late G1 (post-cartoon) doesn't get the same amount of eye-rolls because it's far less re-threaded ground than yet another Optimus Prime and Megatron.

See, this is what I loved about Titans Return. Triggerhappy? Misfire? Slugslinger? All G1 Characters, but aside from Slugslinger’s Energon cameo, none of them have had a real figure since their first toys, so yes we are getting G1 characters, but by all rights they are totally new to the later generations of fans while still filling in the old roster, rather than yet more Starscream and Thundercracker.

[Hellscream9999]

It's both great and surprising that this very G1 tail ending character,set Big Powered has sparked such a great interest even among G1 hating fans.

This be good!

I think a lot of people were looking for a breath of fresh air from siege and this is as zany and obscure as you can probably get

I'd argue when people mean 'G1' most of the time they mean the Cartoon from season 1 to 3. Late G1 (post-cartoon) doesn't get the same amount of eye-rolls because it's far less re-threaded ground than yet another Optimus Prime and Megatron.

See, this is what I loved about Titans Return. Triggerhappy? Misfire? Slugslinger? All G1 Characters, but aside from Slugslinger’s Energon cameo, none of them have had a real figure since their first toys, so yes we are getting G1 characters, but by all rights they are totally new to the later generations of fans while still filling in the old roster, rather than yet more Starscream and Thundercracker.

Actually most of that line was pretty fresh; twintwist, topspin, kup, perceptor, breakaway, krok, alpha trion... pretty great

[william-james88]

It's both great and surprising that this very G1 tail ending character,set Big Powered has sparked such a great interest even among G1 hating fans.

This be good!

I think a lot of people were looking for a breath of fresh air from siege and this is as zany and obscure as you can probably get

I'd argue when people mean 'G1' most of the time they mean the Cartoon from season 1 to 3. Late G1 (post-cartoon) doesn't get the same amount of eye-rolls because it's far less re-threaded ground than yet another Optimus Prime and Megatron.

See, this is what I loved about Titans Return. Triggerhappy? Misfire? Slugslinger? All G1 Characters, but aside from Slugslinger’s Energon cameo, none of them have had a real figure since their first toys, so yes we are getting G1 characters, but by all rights they are totally new to the later generations of fans while still filling in the old roster, rather than yet more Starscream and Thundercracker.

I would never say no to an actual good starscream figure

[Ultra Markus]

Pre-order secured! Super stoked to see how this guy turns out in hand

You and me both: this trio is made from some of my favorite molds. But seriously, now that friggin' ZONE of all things get some love from Takara, what's next? Will we see Sky Garry and Grandus? Big Bang? Star Convoy?

what i think needs to be next is a proper Dezaurus and a proper Liozack and Jallguar for combiner wars Liokaiser

[fenrir72]

Pre-order secured! Super stoked to see how this guy turns out in hand

You and me both: this trio is made from some of my favorite molds. But seriously, now that friggin' ZONE of all things get some love from Takara, what's next? Will we see Sky Garry and Grandus? Big Bang? Star Convoy?

what i think needs to be next is a proper Dezaurus and a proper Liozack and Jallguar for combiner wars Liokaiser

LK,LC and Dz really need a modern treatment!

And yes, little by little, the G1 barriers are breaking down! Resistance is futile!

[Skritz]

It's both great and surprising that this very G1 tail ending character,set Big Powered has sparked such a great interest even among G1 hating fans.

This be good!

I think a lot of people were looking for a breath of fresh air from siege and this is as zany and obscure as you can probably get

I'd argue when people mean 'G1' most of the time they mean the Cartoon from season 1 to 3. Late G1 (post-cartoon) doesn't get the same amount of eye-rolls because it's far less re-threaded ground than yet another Optimus Prime and Megatron.

See, this is what I loved about Titans Return. Triggerhappy? Misfire? Slugslinger? All G1 Characters, but aside from Slugslinger’s Energon cameo, none of them have had a real figure since their first toys, so yes we are getting G1 characters, but by all rights they are totally new to the later generations of fans while still filling in the old roster, rather than yet more Starscream and Thundercracker.

Actually most of that line was pretty fresh; twintwist, topspin, kup, perceptor, breakaway, krok, alpha trion... pretty great

I'd argue Combiner Wars started the trend on a smaller and less obscure scale: the Scramble Combiner teams in full when usually only the leader of each team got an update.

[o.supreme]

Is it any good? Real question: is any of the JG1 cartoon stuff better than the Sunbow cartoon seasons 1-3? Like miles better?

I'd argue when people mean 'G1' most of the time they mean the Cartoon from season 1 to 3. Late G1 (post-cartoon) doesn't get the same amount of eye-rolls because it's far less re-threaded ground than yet another Optimus Prime and Megatron.

I think thats a winning argument. Most people (including people that worked at Hasbro) knew nothing of the JG1 stuff. I myself knew very little until joining this site. And I know for a fact that when Peter Cullen uses the word G1 (which he uses A LOT) its basically shorthand for whatever he was in.

@ William- The Japanese series is very much a case of YMMV. To me, these *were* the continuing episodes (basically season 5-7) that we never got in North America, but should have, especially since I'd known about them since their inception thanks to a friend I had way back in 1988 who's father traveled back and forth to Japan frequently. These were not something I found out about years or decades later.

But for some, there definitely is something lost in Translation. I hear many find them boring or silly. I think they fit right in with Sunbow's stuff. Though if you jump straight into Zone it can be jarring. But if you start with Scramble City and Headmasters (which have designs and concepts very much like the Sunbow series), and progress form there, the culture shock is not that bad. I think these series are great, and they are one of the most underrated treasures Transformers has to offer.

@Skirtz- As I'm sure you know I find the term "G1" overall to be demeaning, but I don't tell anybody how to act/post on these forums, and I know not everyone uses it in a derogatory way...However. - To ME Anything released from 1984-1992 is considered The Transformers. PERIOD. Whether it be toys, in print, or animated, and no matter what country it originated in, it's all part of the same great era that started it all. At times of course I will be more specific depending on what forum, and point I'm trying to make, but it's all the Original Series.

@Sabr- Thanks for posting those links, Ill definitely get into those soon. All I had was the Zone mini booklet which basically was a retelling of the single animated episode. I had seen individual designs and pages before, but never thought I'd be able to read the whole thing. Much Obliged --I just kind of wish IDW (or perhaps letting them subliscense to a company like Viz, and produce an official translation in print and make them available for purchase in North America

[Skritz]

As I'm sure you know I find the term "G1" overall to be demeaning, but I don't tell anybody how to act/post on these forums, and I know not everyone uses it in a derogatory way...However. - To ME Anything released from 1984-1992 is considered The Transformers. PERIOD. Whether it be toys, in print, or animated, and no matter what country it originated in, it's all part of the same great era that started it all. At times of course I will be more specific depending on what forum, and point I'm trying to make, but it's all the Original Series.

I'd add to this: Beast Wars is in a complicated case. Continuity-wise it absolutely IS part of the Generation 1 greater continuity. However, from a toyline standpoint it is a unique and different brand made with a different crew and even a different subset of Hasbro (their, at the time, newly-bought Kenners). So Beast Wars both is and is not Generation 1/'The Transformers'. It is in the sense it take place within the same universe and continuity (well, one of them anyway) and is both a sequel/prequel/spinoff (damn time travel).

To make an analogy: the stuff after the G1 toon ended is like all the Star Trek stuff after the Original Series ended, be they the Animated Series and the Movies with Kirk. And the Beast Era is like The Next Generation: both are the same universe and the same series/brand and therefore the same world and continuity but they are clearly delineated era with a different name, branding, staff, cast and esthetic.

This clearly mark Beast Wars as distinct-yet-still-a-part-of-it compared to what came after, like the Michael Bay films, Unicron Trilogy or Animated. These were full blown continuity reboot, starting from the ground up.

Does that definition seem fair?

[o.supreme]

Oh I 100% agree that the animated series of BW, BWII, BW Neo, and BM are a canonical continuation of the Original animated series, set in the same universe. But the toys, and any other ancillary product I tend to keep separate, if that makes any sense.

[Sabrblade]

There is another term besides "G1" that can be used to encompass all of the Sunbow/Marvel/Headmasters/Masterforce/Victory/Zone/G2/BW/BM/BWII/BWNeo/Car Robots/Dreamwave/IDW/etc. stuff, but it's a term that a lot of people don't like to use on account of it having come from Fun Pub's super-nerdy TransTech material.

That term being "Primax".

[Skritz]

Oh I 100% agree that the animated series of BW, BWII, BW Neo, and BM are a canonical continuation of the Original animated series, set in the same universe. But the toys, and any other ancillary product I tend to keep separate, if that makes any sense.

This goes back to my entire original point: that there are multiple definitions to what is G1, depending if you look at it from a production era standpoint, from a toyline standpoint, a continuity standpoint or your own fanboy bias.

[ZeroWolf]

Doesn't the beast wars cartoon take it cues from different g1 timelines though? I would say it was from a fifth timeline that contained amalgamated elements of the comics and cartoons.

[william-james88]

Doesn't the beast wars cartoon take it cues from different g1 timelines though? I would say it was from a fifth timeline that contained amalgamated elements of the comics and cartoons.

Maybe that was done retroactively but at the time, elements like Starscream's ghost and the like were direct cues from the Sunbow continuity. Ravage is the same ravage we see in the G1 cartoon, the ark is the same, ect.

[Sabrblade]

Doesn't the beast wars cartoon take it cues from different g1 timelines though? I would say it was from a fifth timeline that contained amalgamated elements of the comics and cartoons.

Maybe that was done retroactively but at the time, elements like Starscream's ghost and the like were direct cues from the Sunbow continuity. Ravage is the same ravage we see in the G1 cartoon, the ark is the same, ect.

Nuh uh! The BW cartoon deliberately left its G1 history vague and under-detailed on purpose. The show wasn't even originally going to have any G1 elements in it. The "Great War" mention in the first episode was put in by Bob Forward as something that was just supposed to be some past conflict possibly between the Maximals and Predacons. The G1 stuff that they took from both the cartoon AND the Marvel comics was only added in after Forward and DiTillio went online to hear from the fan groups about their reactions to Beast Wars, and put in only to appease those fans who initially derided Beast Wars from being so different from G1. It was only after they went online that the "Great War" was made into referring to the Autobot/Decepticon war of yore and was due to the fans thinking that that's what it was. The G1 history of Beast Wars has always been meant to be treated as Arthurian Legend, with the exception of how Japan handled it by having the G1 cartoon treated as the gospel history for BW.

[Skritz]

An 'happy accident that somehow worked out' is the best way to describe how Beast Wars fits into continuity. It's a miracle it make sense at all, but hey, in the end it did. Mostly.

[Sabrblade]

An 'happy accident that somehow worked out' is the best way to describe how Beast Wars fits into continuity. It's a miracle it make sense at all, but hey, in the end it did. Mostly.

Yeah, Forward and DiTillio admitted to their having completely made things up as they went along.

[Skritz]

An 'happy accident that somehow worked out' is the best way to describe how Beast Wars fits into continuity. It's a miracle it make sense at all, but hey, in the end it did. Mostly.

Yeah, Forward and DiTillio admitted to their having completely made things up as they went along.

Hey I've been Game-Mastering tabletop RPG long enough to know this is a valid method as long as you can make it 50%+ coherent by the time it's over!

[o.supreme]

Yeah, Forward and DiTillio admitted to their having completely made things up as they went along.

They are amazing and extremely funny and talented writers, I had many a nice conversation with them back in the day. Heck I remember in college actually e-mailing Ditllio, and him answering me, a couples times

Another show on at the same time (GI Joe Extreme), was similar in that it initially had no ties to "A Real American Hero", though I do think *possibly* something may have got shoehorned in at the last minute, cant be sure though as I never really watched it. I do know Iron Klaw from that show was in the IDW TF comics somehow... Imagine if BW had been as forgettable as GI Joe Extreme.


back on topic however...I pretty much think, no matter your personal definition, or naming convention for the original series. There is no denying that Dai Atlus, Sonic Bomber, and Roadfire were a part of it.

[Skritz]

Indeed, going back to the original subject:

These designs deserved at least one more day in the spotlight for new fans to see and appreciate as a sadly forgotten 'dead end' of G1 but nonetheless a part of it. By that point Transformers was a dead brand in Japan, old trite and overdone...at least, until Takara released the Brave Series.

Make no mistake, Star Saber was the proto-Brave and in many ways Dai Atlas and Star Convoy are the 'missing link' in the transition from Transformers to the Braves, both in story and toy design. Dai Atlas may be an obscure character who could only appeal to either people who somehow grew up with some VHS of Zone in Japan or to diehard fanboys with a love for the obscure corners of Transformers lore (like me and a lot of modern TF Writers via Dreamwave, IDW and Animated) but one can't deny this: Takara gave above and beyond their 100% to make this set as good as they could.

And oh sweet Primus, does it show.

[william-james88]

Doesn't the beast wars cartoon take it cues from different g1 timelines though? I would say it was from a fifth timeline that contained amalgamated elements of the comics and cartoons.

Maybe that was done retroactively but at the time, elements like Starscream's ghost and the like were direct cues from the Sunbow continuity. Ravage is the same ravage we see in the G1 cartoon, the ark is the same, ect.

Nuh uh! The BW cartoon deliberately left its G1 history vague and under-detailed on purpose. The show wasn't even originally going to have any G1 elements in it. The "Great War" mention in the first episode was put in by Bob Forward as something that was just supposed to be some past conflict possibly between the Maximals and Predacons. The G1 stuff that they took from both the cartoon AND the Marvel comics was only added in after Forward and DiTillio went online to hear from the fan groups about their reactions to Beast Wars, and put in only to appease those fans who initially derided Beast Wars from being so different from G1. It was only after they went online that the "Great War" was made into referring to the Autobot/Decepticon war of yore and was due to the fans thinking that that's what it was. The G1 history of Beast Wars has always been meant to be treated as Arthurian Legend, with the exception of how Japan handled it by having the G1 cartoon treated as the gospel history for BW.

I know all this, what i wrote was not referring to the great war. I gave specific examples to G1 nods that the writers included to later confirm that the timelines were indeed connected.

How is the following statement wrong and worthy of a long response correctig me?

elements like Starscream's ghost and the like were direct cues from the Sunbow continuity

[ZeroWolf]

Indeed, going back to the original subject:

These designs deserved at least one more day in the spotlight for new fans to see and appreciate as a sadly forgotten 'dead end' of G1 but nonetheless a part of it. By that point Transformers was a dead brand in Japan, old trite and overdone...at least, until Takara released the Brave Series.

Make no mistake, Star Saber was the proto-Brave and in many ways Dai Atlas and Star Convoy are the 'missing link' in the transition from Transformers to the Braves, both in story and toy design. Dai Atlas may be an obscure character who could only appeal to either people who somehow grew up with some VHS of Zone in Japan or to diehard fanboys with a love for the obscure corners of Transformers lore (like me and a lot of modern TF Writers via Dreamwave, IDW and Animated) but one can't deny this: Takara gave above and beyond their 100% to make this set as good as they could.

And oh sweet Primus, does it show.

Indeed, this is a spot on post. My problem with all this g1 references is that until recently it was all focused on the 84-85 crew with just the main movie cast joining in the fun. Now if we got nothing but 88 and beyond updates, you wouldn't hear me complaining Dai Atlas is something I really like my only little nitpick is it doesn't look like his wings can form the sword he used to bisect Predaking (think Takara could put an alternate head in to reference this )

[Burn]

So anyway, back to that Legends toyline ...

Another alternative for Australian residents.
https://www.robotoyz.net/products/trans ... -exclusive
Now got my pre-order in.

[Emerje]

Doesn't the beast wars cartoon take it cues from different g1 timelines though? I would say it was from a fifth timeline that contained amalgamated elements of the comics and cartoons.

Maybe that was done retroactively but at the time, elements like Starscream's ghost and the like were direct cues from the Sunbow continuity. Ravage is the same ravage we see in the G1 cartoon, the ark is the same, ect.

Nuh uh! The BW cartoon deliberately left its G1 history vague and under-detailed on purpose. The show wasn't even originally going to have any G1 elements in it. The "Great War" mention in the first episode was put in by Bob Forward as something that was just supposed to be some past conflict possibly between the Maximals and Predacons. The G1 stuff that they took from both the cartoon AND the Marvel comics was only added in after Forward and DiTillio went online to hear from the fan groups about their reactions to Beast Wars, and put in only to appease those fans who initially derided Beast Wars from being so different from G1. It was only after they went online that the "Great War" was made into referring to the Autobot/Decepticon war of yore and was due to the fans thinking that that's what it was. The G1 history of Beast Wars has always been meant to be treated as Arthurian Legend, with the exception of how Japan handled it by having the G1 cartoon treated as the gospel history for BW.

Not entirely surprising since at this point Hasbro had entirely lost interest in Transformers and passed the whole franchise off to Kenner to do whatever they wanted for five years (Beast Wars, Machine Wars, Beast Machines). I wonder how long they would have let Kenner go before they closed them down? Would they have passed on RID for something else or would RID have been released under Kenner? Would the Unicron Trilogy have happened? Talk about an alternate timeline.

[edit]I started writing this post before Burn's (I was waiting for a computer I'm fixing to boot so I got distracted). Though technically Beast Wars is part of Legends.

Emerje

[Burn]

T.O.Y.L.I.N.E.

[ZeroWolf]

Here we go, for all my fellow UK fans, kapow toys have their preorders up for Big Powered for £109.99, need to scrounge the money together for this.

Edit: link-https://www.kapowtoys.co.uk/transformers-legends-big-powered-takara-tomy-mall-exclusive.html