Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Handels-Messerschmitt wrote:

PrymeStriker wrote:Did you even read my second paragraph?

Starscream has repeatedly tried to subvert Megatron and even tried to kill him. Giving up someone who has proven loyal for someone who has wanted your spot for a long time isn't the most sensible thing to do, especially when you've already got all you want out of them. Starscream was pretty obviously kept in the show because they plan more toys of him.

Starscream supplied Megatron with all four Omega Keys. It's because of him that the Decepticons have the Fortress of New Kaon and destroyed Autobot HQ. Starscream is the reason they won.

Dreadwing was going to leave the Decepticons if Megatron hadn't killed him. No matter how loyal Dreadwing was, he failed Megatron multiple times and ignored his orders twice.

Also, you're quoting me and then trailing off from what I was even talking about.

Between Dreadwing and starscream, Megs has been looking for a reason to off Dreadwing for a while. He knows the only reason that dreadwing is loyal is so he can get his revenge on his brothers killer. Why do you think megs let dreadwing see screamers thoughts, He knew what starscream had been up to, I mean heck soundwave sees all. It was a way to upset Dreadwing to a point where he would have a reason to kill him, and to make Screamer his lap dog. I do not think Screamer can betray megatron now.

ebilly99 wrote:Between Dreadwing and starscream, Megs has been looking for a reason to off Dreadwing for a while. He knows the only reason that dreadwing is loyal is so he can get his revenge on his brothers killer. Why do you think megs let dreadwing see screamers thoughts, He knew what starscream had been up to, I mean heck soundwave sees all. It was a way to upset Dreadwing to a point where he would have a reason to kill him, and to make Screamer his lap dog. I do not think Screamer can betray megatron now.

he didn't "let" Dreadwing watch the imagery. Dreadwing wasn't even in the room until he came in to check on Knock Out just as Knock Out was going to pull the plug on Megatron. Dreadwing just happen to take a look at the video screen and decide to keep watching.

PrymeStriker wrote:Dreadwing was going to leave the Decepticons if Megatron hadn't killed him. No matter how loyal Dreadwing was, he failed Megatron multiple times and ignored his orders twice.

Merely ignoring orders doesn't really operate in the same weight class as assassination and conspiracy to overtake the leadership. Not like there are a lot of decepticons who haven't failed a mission somehow, anyway.

Handels-Messerschmitt wrote:Not like there are a lot of decepticons who haven't failed a mission somehow, anyway.

I'm not saying Dreadwing has failed a mission once before, but Dreadwing has never succeeded. To prove my point, I'm going to list his failures:

1. Loose Cannons - No real "mission," but still didn't extinguish Optimus Prime, let-alone Wheeljack or Bulkhead
2. Crossfire - Failed to kill of Airachnid, costing the Decepticons the loss of Breakdown
3. Triangulation - Lost the Apex Armor to Starscream
4. Triage - No mission, but Megatron finds out about his failure
5. Alpha/Omega - Does nothing but open the tomb of a Prime
6. Hard Knocks - Gets his ass handed to him by Bulkhead and loses the Omega Key to Starscream
7. Regeneration - Killed. Side note: gave Autobots the Forge.

The only other times he made appearances was in Flying Mind, Hurt, Legacy, Inside Job, and Patch, but he did nothing important in those episodes. So, where are his victories?

So, Dreadwing failed a lot, except for once saving Megatron's life. But really, all his cons fail him over and over or try to kill him, except Soundwave.

So what does Megatron value more, loyalty, or success? ...or, control-ability? Knockout lives because he is needed. Starscream failed in dramatic fashion over and over, but still offers something that your garden-variety Breakdown or Dreadwing wouldn't. One could even argue that his success in threatening/pestering Megatron (clones nearly killing him, stealing the Apex Armor, nevermind the keys), plus the insight Megatron gained from the patch, had Megatron committed to Starscream.

He didn't kill Dreadwing for being disloyal or a failure or even for being disruptive, he killed him because he couldn't coexist with Starscream.

DarkEnergon wrote:He didn't kill Dreadwing for being disloyal or a failure or even for being disruptive, he killed him because he couldn't coexist with Starscream.

Megatron told Dreadwing that his cooperation was essential, despite the difficulty of Starscream joining the Decepticon ranks again. He didn't kill him because Dreadwing couldn't flat out coexist with Starscream, but because he learned that he couldn't through this act.

You're honestly going to ignore Dreadwing's disobedience anyway? Megatron values obedience in his ranks, along with success, and Dreadwing proved that he couldn't coincide with either at that point.

PrymeStriker wrote:

DarkEnergon wrote:He didn't kill Dreadwing for being disloyal or a failure or even for being disruptive, he killed him because he couldn't coexist with Starscream.

Megatron told Dreadwing that his cooperation was essential, despite the difficulty of Starscream joining the Decepticon ranks again. He didn't kill him because Dreadwing couldn't flat out coexist with Starscream, but because he learned that he couldn't through this act.

You're honestly going to ignore Dreadwing's disobedience anyway? Megatron values obedience in his ranks, along with success, and Dreadwing proved that he couldn't coincide with either at that point.

Dreadwing's disobedience forced Megatron to take action, but did he terminate Dreadwing because of that, or because he'd rather have Starscream?

Maybe he only killed him to save Starscream, not simply because he thought Dreadwing deserved death for something could be seen as the last straw.

Maybe he only killed him because he decided this Dreadwing + Starscream thing just wasn't going to work out.

Maybe he *was* furious that Dreadwing openly defied him, and that's why. But Dreadwing disobeyed him when he saved Megatron, and was told he'd make a fine second-in-command. Other decepticons have failed and disobeyed left and right and lived to tell about it.

I think someone like Megatron could easily let the two foes battle it out and see that stronger one gets to stand by his side. when Megatron ordered him to stand down, he was committing to Starscream - he wanted Dreadwing to prove he could coexist with him, and when he proved otherwise, Megatron saved the weaker fighter, but stronger strategist.

Actually, I'm not sure if we're agreeing and I'm just poorly articulating my point. Basically, I don't think Megatron kills Dreadwing outright unless unless he has to to keep Starscream.

DarkEnergon wrote:Actually, I'm not sure if we're agreeing and I'm just poorly articulating my point. Basically, I don't think Megatron kills Dreadwing outright unless unless he has to to keep Starscream.

Well, of course. That's what Megatron said. Starscream had all four Omega Keys. If Megatron said "No deal" to Starscream, even if he didn't know what the keys do, Megatron would be out of luck and missing the chance to revitalize Cybertron. Henceforth, Starscream was a more important ally than Dreadwing.

dreadwing - starscream is more likely to kill me later better to nip that one -but then again im not a raging loon like this megatron so his choice is less rational

Megatron clearly stated that after Starscream left the Decepticon ranks infighting nearly destroyed them and that they needed to operate as a united front. He also stated that he needed SS by his side instead of against the Decepticons and that loyalty had become a major requirement in recent times.

Starscream doesn't always win, but he is VERY useful, as proven at the end of Regeneration when the kids are used to 'trade' for the Omega Keys.

Dreadwing was defying Megatron's order to end the dissension and act as a team AND he was trying to kill the best lieutenant Megs ever had.