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[Deadput]

Edt: condensing this for now until I can properly fill this section with actual constructive feedback on the show and not a rage induced rant.

I'll edit this post at some point with different points about the show and what works and what doesn't

Edit 2: Changed the title to be something less insulting.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

I am posting here to come back later, but I strongly disagree with the notion that Prime was badly written.

It was a great show that I still really love and I think did a great job and did a lot of good for the franchise

[ZeroWolf]

The problem here is that there is no examples of the bad writing or how it went against the teachings. Not that I put much weight on things like that. I'm a published author and have never taken a writing class and the last time I touched literature studies was back in school 17 years ago. Saying Prime had bad writing is a disservice to the people who wrote for the show and the story they wanted to tell. Some of that was changed by external factors yes, but writers do what writers do, they write.

[Tigerhawk7109]

I am posting here to come back later, but I strongly disagree with the notion that Prime was badly written.

It was a great show that I still really love and I think did a great job and did a lot of good for the franchise

I completely agree. You do the show a disservice by belittling everything about it. Prime tried something different, and it did it well. Very well. How can you argue with nine Daytime Emmy wins? Prime was the show that brought me to Transformers. It is still, in my opinion, the best of the best.

[Rodimus Prime]

While I'm not particularly a big fan of the show, I don't think it was bad, just boring. I do prefer a TF show to be about TFs and have very minimal human action. This is also my main problem with the live action movies, but that's a different thread. If Prime had been kept to 2 seasons, it would have had a much crisper story and better pacing. Just take out some of the episodes with lamer stories and change the ending story arc. Beast Hunters just drags the whole thing down. And Unicron being Earth is just dumb. Yet another thing Bayverse should be despised for. I agree with Deadput on some of the character assessments as well, particularly Soundwave and Starscream. I don't necessarily think the show had bad writing, just some bad ideas. It's definitely inferior to Beast Wars and TFA, but otherwise it holds up better than any other episodic animated TF media. These are just my opinions, of course.

And the Emmys, much like the Grammys and the Oscars, are worthless in terms of determining a show's quality. It's mostly a bunch of self-important egomaniacs stroking each other.

[Burn]

I decided that my final post/thread on this site will be about the writing qualities of the show which was the start of my year long journey to finally detesting the franchise and the community.

I have to wonder if there's a point to keeping this thread open given that you won't even hang around to bother discussing it.

[Deadput]

I decided that my final post/thread on this site will be about the writing qualities of the show which was the start of my year long journey to finally detesting the franchise and the community.

I have to wonder if there's a point to keeping this thread open given that you won't even hang around to bother discussing it.

Having gotten some needed sleep since these posts, I can see that I went ballistic today.

I would say that this thread should be deleted/closed since it was a product of tired induced anger since I have not been having a good week but instead I'll make it up by working on an actual writing essay on the show at some point in the month, on what works and what doesn't work.

So this apology probably means jack since nothing justifies my attitude today, but I am sorry to everyone I argued with earlier.

Any chance I can rename the thread to something else? Like TFP writing discussion or something less insulting? I do want to hopefully turn this around to a more productive discussion thread.

[Burn]

You rename the thread by editing your first post.

Guess this means you're hanging around. Plus I knew you had to try to get the final word in like always.

I had a **** week too, banning you might help improve my mood.

[Deadput]

You rename the thread by editing your first post.

Guess this means you're hanging around. Plus I knew you had to try to get the final word in like always.

I had a **** week too, banning you might help improve my mood.

Huh didn't know that was a thing, then again I've made like what 1 or 2 threads before this one, I'll change the title and hopefully when I'm completely cooled down I can turn this around into something productive.

Yeah that's absolutely true got me there, can't walk away from anything it just irritates me if I leave what I considered to be an unfinished conversation especially if I was feeling heated during it which for sure inspired making this thread and that final post in the Cyberverse discussion thread which was admittedly done from angered spite, I also can't quite walk away from the franchise even when I want to do so that I still get excited by toy reveals and even that Netflix Transformers show trailer got to me.

Friggen hell I went and bought the Siege Skywarp set after seeing it come back in stock on Canada Amazon yesterday after seeing it disappear weeks ago.

If it makes you feel better I was thinking of asking for a temp ban anyways, think it might do wonders for my mind state, getting banned on a couple of sites in the past has partially help my temperament so I know that a month or two long ban would probably bother me and teach me to actually not say something just because I want to, overall I'm asking for it because I probably deserve it at this point for constantly being a pain and it's not something I can just get away with.

I completely agree. You do the show a disservice by belittling everything about it. Prime tried something different, and it did it well. Very well. How can you argue with nine Daytime Emmy wins? Prime was the show that brought me to Transformers. It is still, in my opinion, the best of the best.

I'm sorry for getting into a fuss in the Cyberverse discussion thread with you and everyone else in the convo, people talking about TFP in positive light is something that just sets me off.

TFP is probably not as bad as a show as I remember it, and to be honest I didn't hate the show when I finished watching it as it aired all those years ago, I was only disappointing, I only started to hate it once I saw other online communities pick and rip the show apart and point out writing flaws which as a person who has become a major critic (no small part due to those studies that I talked about, I value those studies) it made me turn on the show even more.


For me besides the show itself the aligned continuity for me living through that era for my early to late teens, it only left me with disappointment, not just the show letting me down but also what happened to things like the High Moon games, the Transformers Universe game that I was so excited for, among other things even going through the RID cartoon as well as the after effect that led to the current "smaller budged" state of the franchise, the live action series going the way they did also effects how I see the aligned continuity, for me I can't see it as anything but a colossal failure which was mostly started when I found out about the behind the scenes aspects of TFP and the disregard the show creators had to Hasbro, there were several tidbits revealed after TFP ended that just made me hate it when it was simply a disappointment before.

To me I see the infighting behind the scenes being the cause of those disappointing aspects, I despise the infighting that has spread throughout all the fan communities I'm a part of over the years, Transformers, Halo, Star Wars, etc any time I see arguments or negativity towards any part of a franchise it ticks me off and the only way I can vent when I'm angry is by taking it out which so happens to sometimes be through online arguments which is something that I feel I must always get the last word in, if I don't win an argument then I view the venting as not having worked.

The behind the scenes infighting is why I feel like I can justifiably trash talk about those creators, I have no dislike towards the other creative talent on the show such as the voice actors (all of them did great performances...besides Peter Cullen I feel but not because of his performance itself but the VO direction I feel to be flawed, I do think that TFP Optimus is still the worse one in the franchise, to me he is a total kill joy in comparison to the actors great performances in other parts of the franchise like the Cybertron games and the live action films, I know Peter could do better which is why I feel like his TFP performance was not good)

I wanted Transformers Prime to be the best...I wanted it to be an epic grand thing that would only make the franchise grow even more and become even better including what other projects like the High Moon Studios games were doing or could of become because the potential was there and it was so close, but because that wasn't what happened it became the worst, I was let down to the point it's made me enjoy the franchise less, I liked things that have come out since like RID, Bumblebee movie and Cyberverse but there is a part of me that just feels like it's not the best outcome that could of or rather should of happened.

My dislike of TFP and calling it a bad show is my opinion yes and it was rude and disrespectful for me to end up belittling you, I admit I emotionally don't like seeing people like the show I can't enjoy and it is irrational for me to act that way.


This all probably comes off across like excuses and I suppose they are, despite having reasons for thinking the way I do it does not justify the things I said in the other thread and my intentionally spiteful actions such as creating this thread as a way to spit on the fandom as a final leave.

[ThunderThruster]

My advice for dealing with the "Aligned Continuity". Throw it out the window.
Let the Highmoon games be their own universe, and let Prime and NuRiD be there own universe.
Hasbro left it far to late into the stories of each of the "aligned" series to actually align them. There are more disparities in it than the G1 toon.

[Tigerhawk7109]

You rename the thread by editing your first post.

Guess this means you're hanging around. Plus I knew you had to try to get the final word in like always.

I had a **** week too, banning you might help improve my mood.

Huh didn't know that was a thing, then again I've made like what 1 or 2 threads before this one, I'll change the title and hopefully when I'm completely cooled down I can turn this around into something productive.

Yeah that's absolutely true got me there, can't walk away from anything it just irritates me if I leave what I considered to be an unfinished conversation especially if I was feeling heated during it which for sure inspired making this thread and that final post in the Cyberverse discussion thread which was admittedly done from angered spite, I also can't quite walk away from the franchise even when I want to do so that I still get excited by toy reveals and even that Netflix Transformers show trailer got to me.

Friggen hell I went and bought the Siege Skywarp set after seeing it come back in stock on Canada Amazon yesterday after seeing it disappear weeks ago.

If it makes you feel better I was thinking of asking for a temp ban anyways, think it might do wonders for my mind state, getting banned on a couple of sites in the past has partially help my temperament so I know that a month or two long ban would probably bother me and teach me to actually not say something just because I want to, overall I'm asking for it because I probably deserve it at this point for constantly being a pain and it's not something I can just get away with.

I completely agree. You do the show a disservice by belittling everything about it. Prime tried something different, and it did it well. Very well. How can you argue with nine Daytime Emmy wins? Prime was the show that brought me to Transformers. It is still, in my opinion, the best of the best.

I'm sorry for getting into a fuss in the Cyberverse discussion thread with you and everyone else in the convo, people talking about TFP in positive light is something that just sets me off.

TFP is probably not as bad as a show as I remember it, and to be honest I didn't hate the show when I finished watching it as it aired all those years ago, I was only disappointing, I only started to hate it once I saw other online communities pick and rip the show apart and point out writing flaws which as a person who has become a major critic (no small part due to those studies that I talked about, I value those studies) it made me turn on the show even more.


For me besides the show itself the aligned continuity for me living through that era for my early to late teens, it only left me with disappointment, not just the show letting me down but also what happened to things like the High Moon games, the Transformers Universe game that I was so excited for, among other things even going through the RID cartoon as well as the after effect that led to the current "smaller budged" state of the franchise, the live action series going the way they did also effects how I see the aligned continuity, for me I can't see it as anything but a colossal failure which was mostly started when I found out about the behind the scenes aspects of TFP and the disregard the show creators had to Hasbro, there were several tidbits revealed after TFP ended that just made me hate it when it was simply a disappointment before.

To me I see the infighting behind the scenes being the cause of those disappointing aspects, I despise the infighting that has spread throughout all the fan communities I'm a part of over the years, Transformers, Halo, Star Wars, etc any time I see arguments or negativity towards any part of a franchise it ticks me off and the only way I can vent when I'm angry is by taking it out which so happens to sometimes be through online arguments which is something that I feel I must always get the last word in, if I don't win an argument then I view the venting as not having worked.

The behind the scenes infighting is why I feel like I can justifiably trash talk about those creators, I have no dislike towards the other creative talent on the show such as the voice actors (all of them did great performances...besides Peter Cullen I feel but not because of his performance itself but the VO direction I feel to be flawed, I do think that TFP Optimus is still the worse one in the franchise, to me he is a total kill joy in comparison to the actors great performances in other parts of the franchise like the Cybertron games and the live action films, I know Peter could do better which is why I feel like his TFP performance was not good)

I wanted Transformers Prime to be the best...I wanted it to be an epic grand thing that would only make the franchise grow even more and become even better including what other projects like the High Moon Studios games were doing or could of become because the potential was there and it was so close, but because that wasn't what happened it became the worst, I was let down to the point it's made me enjoy the franchise less, I liked things that have come out since like RID, Bumblebee movie and Cyberverse but there is a part of me that just feels like it's not the best outcome that could of or rather should of happened.

My dislike of TFP and calling it a bad show is my opinion yes and it was rude and disrespectful for me to end up belittling you, I admit I emotionally don't like seeing people like the show I can't enjoy and it is irrational for me to act that way.


This all probably comes off across like excuses and I suppose they are, despite having reasons for thinking the way I do it does not justify the things I said in the other thread and my intentionally spiteful actions such as creating this thread as a way to spit on the fandom as a final leave.

I forgive you. I know what it feels like to have a terrible week, and writing helps me with that. Sorry for being so aggressive towards my point. Sometimes, I just get really defensive of my opinions. Prime is still my favorite.

[Deadput]

I forgive you. I know what it feels like to have a terrible week, and writing helps me with that. Sorry for being so aggressive towards my point. Sometimes, I just get really defensive of my opinions. Prime is still my favorite.

It's fine, I was on the offensive against you guys and your like for the show.

[Tigerhawk7109]

I forgive you. I know what it feels like to have a terrible week, and writing helps me with that. Sorry for being so aggressive towards my point. Sometimes, I just get really defensive of my opinions. Prime is still my favorite.

It's fine, I was on the offensive against you guys and your like for the show.

Then I suppose we can reach a cease fire. (Full review of the show coming soon!)

[Deadput]

I forgive you. I know what it feels like to have a terrible week, and writing helps me with that. Sorry for being so aggressive towards my point. Sometimes, I just get really defensive of my opinions. Prime is still my favorite.

It's fine, I was on the offensive against you guys and your like for the show.

Then I suppose we can reach a cease fire. (Full review of the show coming soon!)

Sure, I plan to explain more on the characters to start with when I have the time.

[Tigerhawk7109]

Prime is the show that got me into Transformers as a whole. It’s still, in my opinion, the best of the best.
My thoughts on the ‘Cons:

Starscream: Man, I love him. He’s so intriguing as a character, because he’s only out for himself. He’s cunning, slimy, and sometimes downright hilarious.

Soundwave: How can a character say only four words, yet still be my favorite? He was silent, terrifying, and eerily successful as Megatron’s most loyal lieutenant.

Knock Out: Dang, he’s awesome! Totally well written, very funny, but not overused. Now he just needs a better toy, and we’re all set!

Breakdown: Served his role of “dumb muscle” very well, especially in tandem with Knock Out. Shame about his early death, though.

Airachnid: Oh, she’ s a sly one. She is similar to Starscream in a few areas, but so, so different in others. Because of their similarities, it’s hilarious how the writers play them off as hating each other. I just really, really wanted for the writers to finish her arc.

Dreadwing: In my opinion, the Dinobot of Prime. He fought for honor, was conflicted, and his death was so tragic. However, what really made him stand out to me was his deep love for his brother.

Shockwave: Taking logic and movie designs to the max! I loved this completely cold version of him.

Megatron: Oh, dear Primus, where to begin! He’s a masterful general, ruthless leader, and did I mention that he’s absolutely insane? Megatron was written so well, voiced incredibly by Frank Welker, and I loved to hate him as an incredible villain.

[Deadput]

I'll post more later but I'll separate characters who were "good" or "bad" in my opinion in this post and will expand later but for now I'll be short labeling the "good Autobots" and will edit later for the other characters, just labeling these categories as such for simplicity rather then anything objective.


Autobots:
Good:

Ratchet: Best character with an incredible VO performance, a good role/personality in the cast, had one of the few character arcs that were actually completed rather then dropped or unsatisfying.

Wheeljack: Probably benefited from his smaller amount of screentime compared to other characters since he was more of a guest star for the first two seasons before becoming a full cast member in Season 3 and thus did not have much time to have bad moments, he's not quite the traditional Wheeljack with being a Wrecker swordsman and not an engineer and thus reminded me of Drift more, I personally would of prefer the latter to the former with the roster we have since the show had a lot of warriors and like one support role Autobot.

Not to say he was a bad character and I consider him to be the second best Autobot when it comes to how the show and it's creative directors treated him, he got a small character arc revolving around his lone wolf status and was a consistent character.

Smokescreen: Great character and was an incredibly refreshing face for the cast since by the time he showed up most of the other Autobots were getting pretty stale in far as character direction was concerned bar Ratchet and Wheeljack with the latter being attributed to his small amount of screentime at the time.

The one part that I see as a "flaw" was not giving a proper conclusion to all of those hints and nods for the greater purpose the show seemed to highlight from time to time even being the next possible leader of the Autobots, of course it not happening is not really the problem or anything but it very much seems that for some reason Bumblebee was given what seemed to be Smokescreen's conclusion from a writing perspective, I'll speak more in Bumblebee's article.

Predacon Rising Bumblebee: There is a reason I'm placing him here separate from his role in the show otherwise, he's a pretty rocking character once he actually got his voice back which I feel was extremely long overdue, his VO was great and his arc during the "movie" was also pretty nice...although on the same coin it's probably due to it likely being Smokescreen's ending suddenly getting pushed on to him since Bumblebee didn't have any leadership related arcs in the show itself.

Cliffjumper part 1: For the insulting short time we had with him he was great which makes his loss an incredibly even more frustrating affair, he had good VO's both times around and great chemistry with Arcee, chemistry that humanized her and made her a lot more tolerable to watch which I will go over once I get to Arcee.

Just to clarify as "characters" all the Autobots were good in my opinion besides two


Bad:

Optimus and Arcee, they are the two I consider to be actually bad characters in the show outside of writing but also their personalities and character decisions

I'll keep it short for now before I edit the post later so in short Optimus is an charismatic and very wooden/robotic character all around, Arcee is a nagger and a hypocrite who constantly made it difficult for the Autobots and Humans despite bossing them around telling them to not do the things she does that she continues to do in the show.

Bulkhead is a fine character but in my opinion there is almost nothing about him that makes him not just a less charming Animated Bulkhead, would of helped if some of his arcs were not dropped like his "crippling injury" or his rivalry with Breakdown which was forgotten about after the latter's death, no reaction from BH whatsoever to him being a "meat" puppet for Silas, he is a character who really could of benefited the show if he died and for once added real stakes to the show

Bumblebee: Had great moments and episodes like in Out of his Head and Operation Bumblebee but they were far too little in comparison to the other 85 percent where he was just there and was acting as much as a character as the non comic relief Vehicons, his lack of voice got very old and unironically was a gimmick done worse here then in the movies where his radio voice was actually a voice.

Bumblebee suffered from his gimmick and happened down even his good moments, imagine how much better arcs like his t-cog episodes could of been if he was capable of speaking.

Cliffjumper part 2: Him and his death being plot devices was cheap and only harmed the show and was made even worse with the Tailgate situation, if the writers really wanted to have an Autobot die within the first episode of the show which is an idea which is shaky and only exists as artificial shock factor for something that is never repeated they should of just made up a generic Red Shirt Autobot like maybe a young Rookie type like Smokescreen and move their death to the end of the episode and not the first few minutes before we even really known them as a character.

Tailgate: He's not a character but rather a copy paste plot device who exists just to double down on Arcee's "Muh partners are deaaaaaaaad" thing, his presence just reduces the whole thing with Cliffjumper, if they really wanted to drive the Airachnid thing they could of kept Cliffjumper around until that episode (which was episode 12, having that much time with Cliffjumper would of quite helped) or just not have Cliffjumper dead at this point at all and have Tailgate be the only dead partner, there was nothing good about having two of the exact same situation.


These are just my opinions on how I see the show and am not saying that everything I say here is correct but rather how I interpreted the show, I'm not good at wording things so hopefully this gets across at all.

I feel like the CGI of the show truly did make the show suffer from what it could of been since the environments were very dead and non alive (remember that episode where they went to New York and just how lifeless it was despite being New York?) this also cut into the characters we could of gotten, not saying the show needed like 20 characters on each side but the Autobots could of benefited from getting a couple more characters in the cast since we only got 3 new Autobots into Team Prime and 2 of those characters were in the last season.

It truly doesn't help that despite their preaching towards models being expensive to make, they wasted several such as the Cliffjumper and Tailgate model (it got 4 or 5 episodes of screentime, a waste of money.)

The Decepticons did this quite well actually, well in gaining their members anyways...the way they lost them however...the deaths of Breakdown, Hardshell and Dreadwing were not really handled that well then again I can't think of a good death in the show besides Megatrons...with said death being immediately reversed for what I feel is a worse outcome.

[Deadput]

One funny thing I feel I should mention is that they made an Ironhide model for the show and it's in the show itself.

As the Autobot Plague Victims from Sick Mind





So they could of really introduced the character, maybe even as a replacement/addition for Bulkhead as the tough guy or something.

[ZeroWolf]

I think part of the issue with Cliffjumper was who they got as his VO, Dwayne Johnson is not cheap, so him dying early on was a boon to the budget and gave me a sense of deja vu to Alfred Hitchcocks Psycho, where the biggest name was the first to go.

Also there's no suprise that Ratchets VO was so good, it's Jeffery Combs! Whether he's bringing one of HP Lovecraft's most infamous characters to life or playing a creepy fbi agent opposite Michael J Fox, he always brings his A game.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

After Prime, every Ratchet and Starscream I see and read has Jeffrey Comb's and Steve Blum's voices, those 2 are the definitive ones for me

[Deadput]

I think part of the issue with Cliffjumper was who they got as his VO, Dwayne Johnson is not cheap, so him dying early on was a boon to the budget and gave me a sense of deja vu to Alfred Hitchcocks Psycho, where the biggest name was the first to go.

Also there's no suprise that Ratchets VO was so good, it's Jeffery Combs! Whether he's bringing one of HP Lovecraft's most infamous characters to life or playing a creepy fbi agent opposite Michael J Fox, he always brings his A game.

The only probable reason they got Dwayne for VO was because they were going to kill Cliffjumper off from the start since Cliffjumper evolved from Smokescreen's original role where he would of been part of the initial team but be killed off in the season 1 finale by Megatron, from how I read it Cliffjumper wasn't even concepted for the show until after they decided to not kill Smokescreen which probably means that Cliffjumper was never actually considered for the main cast at any point, he was likely always meant to die if I'm interpreting that info right.

Big name celeb voicing an expendable cameo is a common tactic to draw viewers into a show, too common in fact when now days you can tell who's a character that won't be around for long based on those type of marketing tricks.

What frustrates me about Cliffjumper's death more then the dead was the dumb bait and switch with how they never followed up with the implications for the show, no other Autobot died on the show until Optimus at the very end. Tailgate and Seaspray don't count, one's a flashback and the other isn't a character but an excuse to bring Wheeljack back to Earth

It's weird to me that Cliffjumper's death bothered me more after the show had ended then the show's run.

With how much I go on about it yeah it's an obvious note at this point that my problems with Prime start with that moment from the start of the show.

[Tigerhawk7109]

After Prime, every Ratchet and Starscream I see and read has Jeffrey Comb's and Steve Blum's voices, those 2 are the definitive ones for me

Totally agree. Steve Blum in particular for me.

[Deadput]

After Prime, every Ratchet and Starscream I see and read has Jeffrey Comb's and Steve Blum's voices, those 2 are the definitive ones for me

Totally agree. Steve Blum in particular for me.

This I can agree with I think their performances are great.

Combs is the default Ratchet voice I hear but for Starscream Blum is default for the more "sinister/serious" Starscreams while Sam Riegel the voice of the Cybertron Games Starscream is the more traditional Screamer voice I hear since I think it coveys the original voice's "weaselly" tone perfectly.

Which reminds me that I liked Starscream in the majority of the first 2 seasons besides his dull lack of colors (plain grey was boring with the Decepticons, it's not bad but most of the Decepticons had dull colors besides Knockout and Breakdown in the early seasons) and loved when he was making the decisions since I see that he got more results for the Decepticons in the show then Megatron did, I just didn't like how he became so..."loyal" once he joined back up with the Decepticons for the last bit of season 2 and season 3, he no longer had any ambitions which was sad to see.

[D-Maximal_Primal]

After Prime, every Ratchet and Starscream I see and read has Jeffrey Comb's and Steve Blum's voices, those 2 are the definitive ones for me

Totally agree. Steve Blum in particular for me.

This I can agree with I think their performances are great.

Combs is the default Ratchet voice I hear but for Starscream Blum is default for the more "sinister/serious" Starscreams while Sam Riegel the voice of the Cybertron Games Starscream is the more traditional Screamer voice I hear since I think it coveys the original voice's "weaselly" tone perfectly.

Which reminds me that I liked Starscream in the majority of the first 2 seasons besides his dull lack of colors (plain grey was boring with the Decepticons, it's not bad but most of the Decepticons had dull colors besides Knockout and Breakdown in the early seasons) and loved when he was making the decisions since I see that he got more results for the Decepticons in the show then Megatron did, I just didn't like how he became so..."loyal" once he joined back up with the Decepticons for the last bit of season 2 and season 3, he no longer had any ambitions which was sad to see.

I saw it as surprising character growth, after realizing out on his own that he wasn't good by himself, he needed the decepticon family, so to speak.

I really liked the Blum voice for him, it oozed slimey manipulator, you knew you could never trust him, and his panicked voice was spot on too

[Deadput]

I saw it as surprising character growth, after realizing out on his own that he wasn't good by himself, he needed the decepticon family, so to speak.

I really liked the Blum voice for him, it oozed slimey manipulator, you knew you could never trust him, and his panicked voice was spot on too

I guess it could work that way and it's probably a legit development, I feel it's a little backwards for him though and feel like if it was intended to be as you said then the show didn't do a good enough job at showing it like that.