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TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby zko » Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:20 pm

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I actually kind of appreciate this because of how it explains some of the stranger decisions of the TFTM we did end up with.

Some of the designs the artist did actually look neat, like Magnus looking like he's mixed with Galvatron we got and Optimus.

I like how Tanker/Kup was originally gonna be a tank, and in the movie we got Kup beats up on Blitzwing's tank mode.

LOL baby ghost Optimus.

In retrospect I always wished that G1 had lasted a bit longer than it did after the original movie and season 3. One of the things I always considered a mistake was the time jump to the future they made so distant and I always wanted it to be a bit more like how the G2 toyline and comics wound up being in the early 90s, giving us more stuff in the late 80s and early 90s to see instead of going 20 years ahead and having the more alien futuristic designs of bot and alt modes.

Still interesting to see this stuff as a G1 fan though, if I wrote it I would have made the beam of light that made Cybertron vanish a teleporter that took it to Unicron to be "drained" and then have baby ghost Optimus revitalize the planet with his spark, becoming Optimus Primus or something :p

I also would have saved the movie to be the finale of the G1 series, instead of the way it turned out dropping sort of 3/4ths of the way through the episodes. Which might have been something they had planned here, seeing as how Optimus and others had major deaths.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby chuckdawg1999 » Mon Aug 22, 2022 8:52 pm

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This definitely is something. Anybody ask Ron Friedman about his thought process coming up with the script?
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Dr. Caelus » Mon Aug 22, 2022 10:00 pm

I'm probably in the minority or singularity on this, but I actually like the idea of OG Megatron making it all the way back to Cybertron but dying because none of his troops care enough about him to render aid, then becoming a ghost because they're already so busy fighting over his throne they don't even perform basic burial rights.

It feels like something out of Greek myth or the Bible, and has a sort of comeuppance to it as well - all Megatron's power and glory, and he's left dying on the floor as the troops he united and trained fight over his scraps.

Plot-wise it's no different from what happened in the final movie, but it seems like it really twists the knife more thoroughly than just having Starscream do what Starscream does. Maybe because having Screamer kill him feels like its punishing Megatron for his repeated mercy towards Starscream, but this version is confronting him with the consequences of his cruelty and callousness.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby o.supreme » Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:41 pm

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I understand that sentiment Dr. C. Even as a kid, I didn't think it was fair how so many Autobots were killed off in TF:TM, and only a few Decepticons. Also Megatron, by all rights would have, and should have succumbed to his injuries.

Oddly enough, the TF Prime film "Predacons Rising" made me look back at the original series. Although Galvatron had a new, more powerful body. It was at great cost. To eternally be a slave to Unicron, and tortured for every error that occurred. Some might rather welcome death. Also Season 3 of the Original Series played up the insanity of Galvatron after Unicron's demise. While the treatment in the S3 episode "Webworld" may have helped, it was pretty obvious that it wasn't until The Return of Optimus Prime; and his unleashing of the Wisdom within the Autobot Matrix which had the residual effect of not only curing the hate plague, but also Galvatron's madness. "There will be no war today Optimus Prime, you have earned Galvatron's Respect" (the first and only time Frank Welker didn't sound insane as Galvatron, since the 1986 Galvatron toy commercial)

Of course Galvatron remained a malevolent being as seen in "The Rebirth", or in the Japanese Headmasters series, albeit perhaps more dangerous now that he was not inhibited by insanity. Also, while the ultimate fate of Megatron/Galvatron may never be known in the Marvel/Sunbow continuity, we know that in the Japanese series, Galvatron had to endure quite a humiliating end at the hand of the Autobot Headmasters, only to be resurrected years later to serve another super powerful being (Dark Nova), to be destroyed multiple times yet again by his old rival Optimus Prime (now in a new body as Star Convoy)... So while his lifespan did drag on, I guess you can say Megatron/Galvatron (at least in the Japanese continuity), did get a comeuppance of constant death/resurrection/and torture in a cycle for quite some time.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Bumblevivisector » Mon Aug 22, 2022 11:45 pm

Said it before, and I'll say it again and again, some comic company that gets the TF license in the future needs to start a tradition of doing a miniseries each year that adapts each of these early TFTM scripts, preferably devoting 4 to 6 issues to each in order to showcase every known piece of unused concept art.

Maybe start with this one while it's fresh in everyone's minds, then the following Friedman draft that was released as a PDF (through Disciples of Boltax?) about 15 years ago, with the Anibots, the Life Sparks of past 'Con leaders being rebuilt into Cyclonus and Scourge + minions, the Autobot Decoys growing from tiny versions reminiscent of the actual toy Decoys before Ultra Magnus deliberately lets Galvatron kill him, and Hot Rod getting cover fire from Jazz and other 'Bots on the moons Ingestor ate, still tangled in his innards.

Then go back to Flint Dille's original "Secret of Cybertron" script; if he can't find that in his closet as well, just pay him to rewrite it from memory!

Maybe add a framing story of Vector Prime obsessing over this critical juncture in the multiverse to explain why it'll be forever revisited. I've still got over a decade of catch-up on IDW comics ahead of me, but THAT I'd buy and read every year!
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Sabrblade » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:36 am

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o.supreme wrote:I understand that sentiment Dr. C. Even as a kid, I didn't think it was fair how so many Autobots were killed off in TF:TM, and only a few Decepticons. Also Megatron, by all rights would have, and should have succumbed to his injuries.

Oddly enough, the TF Prime film "Predacons Rising" made me look back at the original series. Although Galvatron had a new, more powerful body. It was at great cost. To eternally be a slave to Unicron, and tortured for every error that occurred. Some might rather welcome death. Also Season 3 of the Original Series played up the insanity of Galvatron after Unicron's demise. While the treatment in the S3 episode "Webworld" may have helped, it was pretty obvious that it wasn't until The Return of Optimus Prime; and his unleashing of the Wisdom within the Autobot Matrix which had the residual effect of not only curing the hate plague, but also Galvatron's madness. "There will be no war today Optimus Prime, you have earned Galvatron's Respect" (the first and only time Frank Welker didn't sound insane as Galvatron, since the 1986 Galvatron toy commercial)

Of course Galvatron remained a malevolent being as seen in "The Rebirth", or in the Japanese Headmasters series, albeit perhaps more dangerous now that he was not inhibited by insanity. Also, while the ultimate fate of Megatron/Galvatron may never be known in the Marvel/Sunbow continuity, we know that in the Japanese series, Galvatron had to endure quite a humiliating end at the hand of the Autobot Headmasters, only to be resurrected years later to serve another super powerful being (Dark Nova), to be destroyed multiple times yet again by his old rival Optimus Prime (now in a new body as Star Convoy)... So while his lifespan did drag on, I guess you can say Megatron/Galvatron (at least in the Japanese continuity), did get a comeuppance of constant death/resurrection/and torture in a cycle for quite some time.
Until he eventually lost all of his malevolence and finally made peace with Optimus at long last, sacrificing himself to save the Earth from annihilation and his spark traveling onward into another world to begin a new life as a hero, as the new leader of the Green Order and one of the new Warriors of the Seven Lights.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Hero Alpha » Tue Aug 23, 2022 12:51 pm

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Sabrblade wrote:
Moonshot wrote:Well, thats pretty bad, but very interesting to see now. Basically everything was better in the final movie. But hindsight and all. One thing I do notice is they pretty much used the character design of Col Rusty as Lt Falcon later in the GI Joe movie. Very cool of Sabr to put this up here and Jim, Chris to put it all together and present it. What a find. I can only imagine some of the stuff Flint Dille and others from back then have in closets or have thrown away, hehe. Thanks everyone involved.
All the new character designs in this are fan art. They are not actually what they would have all looked like.


I had read that in the article. Pretty good job they did as well, from some of the original descriptions in the script and their own artistic imaginations.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby bluecatcinema » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:03 pm

Now this is really interesting. I'll admit, all of the Decepticons getting powered up sounds like a cool idea, as does the character of Rails, and the Junkions being Unicron's creators.

That said, I'm not a fan of Wheeljack's bad attitude toward Arcee. Maybe one of the writers disliked this so much that it's the reason why he was killed off in the movie...
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Cyber Bishop » Tue Aug 23, 2022 1:19 pm

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I understand some of the decisions that made it to the actual movie but man, This would have went up in flames like a dumpsterfire.. I am glad of the TFTM that we got even more now.

Some of the names were absolutely stupid and generic and since this was essentially a movie to push the wave 3 toys I wonder how bad some of those toys would have ended up. NOW based on this fan art I would be curious if they attempted to make Tanker a toy using the current technology. I would most likely buy him in a heartbeat.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Bumblevivisector » Wed Aug 24, 2022 11:11 am

Cyber Bishop wrote:NOW based on this fan art I would be curious if they attempted to make Tanker a toy using the current technology. I would most likely buy him in a heartbeat.
Well, if Studio series ever exhausts '86 designs and faces another gap before the next live action film, they could produce toys based on early concept art and vague descriptions, like when we finally got actual Star Wars figures of McQuarrie's original designs. For both TF:TM and the live action films, that is.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Cyber Bishop » Wed Aug 24, 2022 1:18 pm

Motto: "Ker-Klick... Choom!"
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Bumblevivisector wrote:
Cyber Bishop wrote:NOW based on this fan art I would be curious if they attempted to make Tanker a toy using the current technology. I would most likely buy him in a heartbeat.
Well, if Studio series ever exhausts '86 designs and faces another gap before the next live action film, they could produce toys based on early concept art and vague descriptions, like when we finally got actual Star Wars figures of McQuarrie's original designs. For both TF:TM and the live action films, that is.



:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby AllNewSuperRobot » Wed Aug 24, 2022 3:41 pm

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o.supreme wrote:I understand that sentiment Dr. C. Even as a kid, I didn't think it was fair how so many Autobots were killed off in TF:TM, and only a few Decepticons. Also Megatron, by all rights would have, and should have succumbed to his injuries.


It was accurate. They made a clear distinction in the lore. The Autobots were mostly civilians, scientists etc Not the hardened trained soldiers and killers the Decepticons were supposed to be. The Autobots had a lot of plot armour in the show. TFTM took the kid gloves off of the Decepticons, and the result was a foregone conclusion.

Prime was fatally wounded. Megatron was not. He was badly beaten, but not fatally so. That much is told via dialogue. If Starscream hadn't made his power play on Astrotrain (you'll note no one other than him dared touched Megatron, when the wounded were jettisoned). They would have returned to Cybertron and Megatron doubtlessly would have been fixed up. Technically he was the only one still alive when they all drifted into Unicron's path.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby MaximalNui » Wed Aug 24, 2022 4:44 pm

Does anyone else finds the whole scales thing a bit strange? Such a huge emphasis is placed on how they cover Unicron/Ingestor and the Decepticons he enhances, as if they're going to play a bigger role, and then...nothing. Maybe they had something to do with the missing pages and Unicron's weakness?

I'm also curious as to how the Transformers mythos would've changed if this was the first origin for Unicron; maybe Furman wouldn't create the whole Unicron/Primus mythos and Unicron would lose his later Satanic, uber-evil representation in later media? The Junkions would've replaced the Quintessons as the recurring, but more benevolent, precursors?

Also fun to know this was being worked since before the cartoon was aired; they really went all out with G1! :shock:

Bumblevivisector wrote:Said it before, and I'll say it again and again, some comic company that gets the TF license in the future needs to start a tradition of doing a miniseries each year that adapts each of these early TFTM scripts, preferably devoting 4 to 6 issues to each in order to showcase every known piece of unused concept art.

Maybe start with this one while it's fresh in everyone's minds, then the following Friedman draft that was released as a PDF (through Disciples of Boltax?) about 15 years ago, with the Anibots, the Life Sparks of past 'Con leaders being rebuilt into Cyclonus and Scourge + minions, the Autobot Decoys growing from tiny versions reminiscent of the actual toy Decoys before Ultra Magnus deliberately lets Galvatron kill him, and Hot Rod getting cover fire from Jazz and other 'Bots on the moons Ingestor ate, still tangled in his innards.

Then go back to Flint Dille's original "Secret of Cybertron" script; if he can't find that in his closet as well, just pay him to rewrite it from memory!

Maybe add a framing story of Vector Prime obsessing over this critical juncture in the multiverse to explain why it'll be forever revisited. I've still got over a decade of catch-up on IDW comics ahead of me, but THAT I'd buy and read every year!

Heck, you don't even need the framing story; all the The Star Wars series needed was say "hey, here's the first draft of the first movie, wanna buy a comic about it?". I'd easily buy any of the 3 drafts, or all 3, as a comic series. Maybe make a whole series of unused Transformers drafts/pilots.

Moonshot wrote:
Sabrblade wrote:
Moonshot wrote:Well, thats pretty bad, but very interesting to see now. Basically everything was better in the final movie. But hindsight and all. One thing I do notice is they pretty much used the character design of Col Rusty as Lt Falcon later in the GI Joe movie. Very cool of Sabr to put this up here and Jim, Chris to put it all together and present it. What a find. I can only imagine some of the stuff Flint Dille and others from back then have in closets or have thrown away, hehe. Thanks everyone involved.
All the new character designs in this are fan art. They are not actually what they would have all looked like.


I had read that in the article. Pretty good job they did as well, from some of the original descriptions in the script and their own artistic imaginations.

Actually, at least a few are based on Floro Dery's own artwork; namely Magnus and the Quintesson.
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Cyber Bishop wrote:
Bumblevivisector wrote:
Cyber Bishop wrote:NOW based on this fan art I would be curious if they attempted to make Tanker a toy using the current technology. I would most likely buy him in a heartbeat.
Well, if Studio series ever exhausts '86 designs and faces another gap before the next live action film, they could produce toys based on early concept art and vague descriptions, like when we finally got actual Star Wars figures of McQuarrie's original designs. For both TF:TM and the live action films, that is.



:-D :-D :-D :-D :-D

Ohh, a Studio Series Draft subline? Me likes! :-D I was thinking precisely how I'd love a toy of Tanker and Rails (also Mentlar, Chemisto and Granix, but I admit I might be alone with these three)! Maybe add some of the other concept art, like the Unicron-bug moon or the Univorsum planet-bot (or his guard).
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby chuckdawg1999 » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:16 pm

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Perhaps Ron Friedman was basing some of the plot off of the pre, pre-transformers concepts, that odd storyline where Bumblebee looked more like a Go-Bot, I think it was going to be the Mysterions? This really feels like a Mysterions story.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Sabrblade » Wed Aug 24, 2022 5:55 pm

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MaximalNui wrote:Actually, at least a few are based on Floro Dery's own artwork; namely Magnus and the Quintesson.
Those designs aren't of "new" characters. I was talking about only the characters who exist specific to this draft, whose designs were newly made from scratch in the presentation's artwork.

chuckdawg1999 wrote:Perhaps Ron Friedman was basing some of the plot off of the pre, pre-transformers concepts, that odd storyline where Bumblebee looked more like a Go-Bot, I think it was going to be the Mysterions? This really feels like a Mysterions story.
According to fellow user Greebtron, much of this draft's plot beats were recycled by Friedman from the second G.I. Joe miniseries, The Revenge of Cobra.

Also, you're confusing Mysterians with Car and Cable.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Greebtron » Wed Aug 24, 2022 9:26 pm

Sabrblade wrote:
chuckdawg1999 wrote:Perhaps Ron Friedman was basing some of the plot off of the pre, pre-transformers concepts, that odd storyline where Bumblebee looked more like a Go-Bot, I think it was going to be the Mysterions? This really feels like a Mysterions story.
According to fellow user Greebtron, much of this draft's plot beats were recycled by Friedman from the second G.I. Joe miniseries, The Revenge of Cobra.

Also, you're confusing Mysterians with Car and Cable.


Well, all 4 G.I Joe miniseries and both TFTM scripts share the same plot structure, but Revenge Of Cobra (the second one) was the most recent one at the time and the one it most resembles. Where it maintains enough of a through-line until the halfway point (in this case, after the fight on the asteroid) before the protagonists are split off in three directions and we ping-pong mercilessly between their plots, usually spending a minute or less on each location before cutting somewhere else.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Bumblevivisector » Thu Aug 25, 2022 1:02 am

Sabrblade wrote:
chuckdawg1999 wrote:Perhaps Ron Friedman was basing some of the plot off of the pre, pre-transformers concepts, that odd storyline where Bumblebee looked more like a Go-Bot, I think it was going to be the Mysterions? This really feels like a Mysterions story.
According to fellow user Greebtron, much of this draft's plot beats were recycled by Friedman from the second G.I. Joe miniseries, The Revenge of Cobra.

Also, you're confusing Mysterians with Car and Cable.

I've read Jim Shooters's blog, but not Car and Cable. Considering Galaxy Rangers had a robotic regular named Buzzwang, I guess "Muffy" is innocuous by comparison. Indeed, he looks like a cross between Super-GoBots Bug Bite and Bumblebee's "Decepticon Patrol" body.

And since GoBots came up, I recently watched the entire series, and read Counter-X's commentary that even though Tonka got their product out first, every move their franchise made was in response to something Hasbro was going to do with TF, beating them to the punch by cutting corners like oversight of the cartoon etc. But since Friedman was clearly spitballing ideas in this first draft, I wonder if some of them were ways in which Hasbro could emulate their competition's more eccentric moves.

Namely Rails. Although he surely influenced Dragon Beast and Sky Lynx down the road, a rectangular robot snake monster just makes me think of this fellow:
Image

Though "Rails" rhymes with Tonka's other similar but actually transforming original toy:
Image

If only Hanna Barbera would release the first draft of 'Gobots: Battle of the Rock Lords', man that would...surely end up being boring as slag compared to the insanity of these TF:TM drafts we now know of. And appropriately so.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Greebtron » Thu Aug 25, 2022 5:23 am

Well, thanks to Jim Sorenson making it public, we do have the outline (which I'm guessing is how far it got) of an earlier version of the Go-Bots movie: Starquest. https://drive.google.com/file/d/1L6fby8 ... sp=sharing

If there's not time to go through 41 pages, the Go-Bots wiki has the writeup: http://gbwiki.shoutwiki.com/wiki/Starquest

Certainly interesting in terms of the overall focus, which is basically "Go-Bots will continue, along with these Rock People we're bringing in", as opposed to the finished film, which was "Go-Bots is dead, everything has to be about Rock Lords now."
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Hero Alpha » Thu Aug 25, 2022 12:21 pm

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Am I the only one that just doesnt care for Floro Dery's concept art? I am glad it had very little to do with Transformer design/looks. He does awesome background work though. Its just all the little gears and steampunk look(for lack of a better term), I really dont like. I know the new movie characters are a lot his designs. But without the overdone details or greebling I guess we call it now.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Greebtron » Sat Aug 27, 2022 7:32 am

Full panel videos are here: https://tf.spacestation-online.com/medi ... gust-14th/

Just remember that these are Mega.nz uploads, which have a data transfer quota for free viewing. You may need to pace out how much you view each day.
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby sto_vo_kor_2000 » Thu Sep 08, 2022 9:04 pm

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This is fantastic I love it and the new information is found
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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Sabrblade » Sun Sep 11, 2022 9:45 pm

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
Weapon: Saber Blade
Here's something else fun that Chris McFeely hosted at TFNation: The Matrix Test:




My score: 30/35.

The ones that stumped me or I ran out of time before realizing the answer were 1.5 (didn't recognize the commonality), 2.4 (didn't remember their names until time ran out), 2.5 (didn't recognize the picture), 3.4 (failed to recognize the pattern), and 5.8 (thought too hardly about the R to realize who it was before time ran out).
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Greebtron » Wed Nov 30, 2022 8:43 pm

I've been given clearance for the next stage of showcasing this script. Back in January 2021, I completed a 16k word detailed outline of the script, having read all 210 pages thoroughly to make sure nothing was missed. Done my best to approach it impartially and from the perspective of someone reading it when it was received in February 1985. With no reference to what came later, save for the little sub-headings I've put on the story beats.
Now at last, I can show my work to the public: https://sunbowmarvelarchive.blogspot.com/2022/11/detailed-outline-of-very-first.html

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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Greebtron » Thu Jan 12, 2023 7:25 pm

Full videos of the panel are now up on the Youtubes

Act I


Act II


Act III


And the next day "Making Of" panel

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Re: TFTM: The First Draft @ TFNation 2022

Postby Sabrblade » Sat Jan 14, 2023 9:10 pm

Motto: "Can't do a job halfway. What's worth doing is worth doing well, I say."
Weapon: Saber Blade
Finally had a chance to watch all four videos. Boy, did I sure get a lot of little details wrong in my write-up.

Broad details were fine, but little things were confused in the second-hand reports on Discord and Twitter that I was going off of.
"When there's gold feathers, punch behind you!!"

Shadowman wrote:This is Sabrblade we're talking about. His ability to store trivial information about TV shows is downright superhuman.
Caelus wrote:My wife pointed out something interesting about the prehistoric Predacons. I said that everyone was complaining because transforming for them mostly consisted of them just standing up-right. She essentially said, 'So? That's what our ancestors did.'
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