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[First-Aid]

There is a lot of concern at the BBC after numbers for Flux came in at record lows, not just for a Doctor Who premiere, but all-time lows globally. In fact, it was so bad that a few mid-season episodes of last season scored higher. Even WORSE, the US demographic 18-49 year old of Flux was outscored by midseason WNBA games, Dr. Oz, and a rerun of Maury. An estimated 119,000 Americans age 18-49 watched the show. Initial thoughts are that, unless MAJOR changes are made, BBC America will relegate Doctor Who to other channels (PBS being an option).

They need to return to what made the show great. They also need a Doctor who will bring in new fans- a face, so to speak. I know there was a name floated a while back for both the Doctor and James Bond: Tom Hiddleston. It would be perfect...a shot in the arm to the show, bringing in people who wouldn't necessarily normally watch the show.

I don't blame Jodie Whitaker for the tanking of the show...she was actually very good with what she had to work with. But much of the show demonstrated sexist overtones that, if the Doctor had been a man, would have resulted in nasty repercussions (For example: "In all our records, the Doctor has always been a man!" "Well, I've had an upgrade." Reverse those statements: "In all our records, the Doctor has always been a woman!" "Well, I've had an upgrade." What do you suppose would have happened?) as well as generally being far too preachy, sacrificing good potential storylines on the alter of political overactivism. Doctor Who's messages have ALWAYS been of a progressive nature, teaching peace, tolerance, and understanding, and as such the fans have ACCEPTED those tenets. IMHO, sci-fi fans are by far the most tolerant of any fanbases. Start Trek TOS? A black female officer! What happened? Oh nothing, we accepted it and moved on! Strong females characters? Sci-fi has ALWAYS had them, and they've never had the need to be preachy about it. So, in the end, the writing was preaching to the choir so to speak...a group of fans that saw these lessons and said, "Yeah we know this. Wait is THIS the episode? Isn't there more plot? This IS the plot? Thank you, Admiral Redundancy!" The result? A loss of loyal fanbase who returned to older episodes (hence the attempt to return to the serial method of story telling in a blatant attempt to tap that nostalgia) because they were simply entertaining, and pushing a political product on a world that is already all politicalled out and looking for diversion from reality. My wife lasted fewer episodes than I did. I really tried. In the end, I went back to Tom Baker (her favorite) and Chris Eccleston (my favorite). It sounds like everyone else is doing the same.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

There is a problem with that. Flux isn't going to change. This is technically the last season of Whitaker's Doctor. Nothing else is going to change until the end of the specials next year.

People decrying it now, echo the same people who decried it with Baker and McCoy. When the BBC was purposely running the show into the ground to get rid of it. Short memories, history repeating itself and all that.

RTD was brought back, most likely for that very reason. History repeating itself. But in the positive sense, as opposed to the fan reactions.

In my opinion, Nu Who was at it's peak with Eccleston, and barring the odd story, has been in slow decline since. Tennant was far too hammy. Didn't take to Smith at all and Capaldi only had one story that I liked. They kept upping the ante instead of working on consistent quality. Making the Doctor "Space Jesus" falls flat, every time.

If it gets cancelled again. I wouldn't say the odds of another revival are very good. Then again, most of the online complainers would have moved on to their next fad by then.

[Burn]

In the age of social media, criticism spreads wildly which ends up influencing people who may otherwise have been enjoying a show until some loudmouth comments caused them to look at things in a different light.

Good or bad, I'm always going to watch DW. That being said, this is the first time I've enjoyed DW under Chibnall, and it's a real shame Whittaker didn't have this kind of material to begin with.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

I largely missed most of Season 11. But I've found Flux the most enjoyable story of Whitaker's run so far. I liked a couple of standalone episodes in Season 12. But since this serial, I'm genuinely excited to see what happens next.

[Burn]

This week's episode was a definite improvement over the mess that was last week's, but still falls short of the impressive first two episodes.

While I feel the Weeping Angels have lost their scare factor, there was a few brief moments where I felt a little tense about what was happening.

The "cliffhanger" ... well, if this season has proven anything is that cliffhangers are rather irrelevant as they're quickly dealt with.

I am a little concerned at the direction things seem to be heading, with "The Flux" essentially wiping out existence and The Doctor being recalled, I can't shake the feeling that Chibnall is attempting to "erase" the Hartnell to Capaldi eras and establish an all new universe with The Division being the big thing.

Hopefully I'm wrong ... but it's Chibnall.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

As soon as The Division went from 'clandestine Time Lord thing' to 'Shadow Cabal, puppeteering everything and everyone', I lost interest.

The Weeping Angels are so one-note, I think they should have been left at Blink. Every subsequent appearance just recycles their same old schtick. To be fresh again, they need a re-invention. Which I don't see happening.

Personally, I found this week's episode boring. Last week was a mess, but this one didn't seem to go anywhere. This is part four of a six part serial. We should have a firm grasp on the Flux plotline, by now. The Invasion or Dalek's Master Plan didn't keep throwing out new questions two episodes before the end.

This is supposed to be the part of the serial when the payoff starts...

Also heard a nasty rumour that the B plot, involving Bel and Vinder, is the birth of the Timeless Child...

[JazZeke]

Also heard a nasty rumour that the B plot, involving Bel and Vinder, is the birth of the Timeless Child...

Oh my god that sounds awful.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Meanwhile...

[ZeroWolf]

Meanwhile...

Be good to have all the Great Intelligence serials together

[AllNewSuperRobot]

Just a shame Web of Fear's animated episode will stick out even more now.

[AllNewSuperRobot]

For a "fan" of Classic Who, I don't think Chibnall knows how Serials work? Part five of six shouldn't be adding even more plot threads....

[ZeroWolf]

For a "fan" of Classic Who, I don't think Chibnall knows how Serials work? Part five of six shouldn't be adding even more plot threads....

Reading reviews, I've seen some fans praise how he's moving all the plot threads to one place and us going to wrap everything up nicely before he leaves (obviously they forgot the three or four specials he's doing)

[AllNewSuperRobot]

The UNIT/Grand Serpent thing, introduced in this episode, really seems like it's own episode. With no relevance to the Flux storyline at all. I don't recall Tenth Planet or Earthshock for example, adding a brand new villain one episode before the climax...

[ZeroWolf]

The UNIT/Grand Serpent thing, introduced in this episode, really seems like it's own episode. With no relevance to the Flux storyline at all. I don't recall Tenth Planet or Earthshock for example, adding a brand new villain one episode before the climax...

Nope, none of them did. However I think this is a recent development in serial storytelling where they add a hook for the future to explore better. Which could be what we're seeing here

[Burn]

The UNIT/Grand Serpent thing, introduced in this episode, really seems like it's own episode. With no relevance to the Flux storyline at all. I don't recall Tenth Planet or Earthshock for example, adding a brand new villain one episode before the climax...

Apparently it's a half-arsed plot thread he introduced back in his first season (UNIT being disbanded) and has now picked up on it to make it a thing.

Everything has to wrap up in one episode, and that's a lot. Yes, there's the specials down the track but there shouldn't be anything left hanging given how long people will be waiting for the next part.

Not that the cliffhangers in this season have been cliffhangers given you just have to watch the "next week" trailers and see that the danger from the cliffhanger has obviously passed.

Just give us more Dan and Karvenista.

[ZeroWolf]

Was it only this season Jon Bishop signed on for?

[Burn]

Was it only this season Jon Bishop signed on for?

Had a quicks search and I don't think anything has been confirmed.

I'd like for him to stay around for a bit, I've quite enjoyed the Dan character.

[JazZeke]

I just can't even with this week's episode. Too much quantum bullshit, overblown stakes to the point of ridiculousness--wiping out the entire universe just to kill the Doctor? Seriously??

If this were any other show and didn't have a new showrunner coming in, this would be the point where I would just give up.

[Burn]

I just can't even with this week's episode. Too much quantum bullshit, overblown stakes to the point of ridiculousness--wiping out the entire universe just to kill the Doctor? Seriously??

Which begs the question ... if 13 Doctors are required to save one planet, why only one Doctor to save an entire universe?

[ZeroWolf]

I thought Tecturn offered the doctor to go with them to the new universe or am I misremembering Some of the arguments I've seen have been more to do with the continuity of UNIT

[AllNewSuperRobot]

The UNIT/Grand Serpent thing, introduced in this episode, really seems like it's own episode. With no relevance to the Flux storyline at all. I don't recall Tenth Planet or Earthshock for example, adding a brand new villain one episode before the climax...

Apparently it's a half-arsed plot thread he introduced back in his first season (UNIT being disbanded) and has now picked up on it to make it a thing.

So pivotal that (A) I couldn't even remember that and, (B)Surely all of this UNIT stuff could have been pushed into one of the Specials?

Everything has to wrap up in one episode, and that's a lot. Yes, there's the specials down the track but there shouldn't be anything left hanging given how long people will be waiting for the next part.

Exactly. By adding new plotlines all the way upto part five, he has added far too much for part six to have a remotely satisfying conclusion.

Just give us more Dan and Karvenista.

"Fetch your human" genuinely made me laugh.

Nope, none of them did. However I think this is a recent development in serial storytelling where they add a hook for the future to explore better. Which could be what we're seeing here

That's two different things though. A serial is a self-contained story. A serialised narrative is an ongoing story with future hooks etc Again, stuff Chibnall as a Classic Who fan, should know.

This serial is called The Flux. Which is the only plotline it should contain.

[Burn]

Which is the only plotline it should contain.

Let's see...

The Doctor's story
Dan, Yaz and Jericho's story
Bel and Chicken Vinderloo looking for each other
The Grand Serpent
One incredibly pissed off and dangerous Kate Stewart
Sontaran invasion
Cave Man and his magic doors

All these are supposed to come together in the final episode.

What we won't get though is more of The Teasing Hermit ... who should be revealed to be K'anpo Rimpoche/Cho-Je just for a bit of fun.

[Burn]

So Kate Stewart's story fizzled out ... Vinder and Bel were of no importance as a lot of people hoped and well ... is the universe still destroyed or restored? That wasn't particularly clear and I feel like the universe existing or not should have been a bit more clearer ...

[Cyber Bishop]

I am a bit behind on the Flux, I completely forgot and noticed that I recorded the aired episodes so far, I started on the first but didn't finish it, Opinions on the story and is it really worth watching?

[Burn]

First two eps were good, it went downhill from there.

I'd say watch it, but only so you can say you watched it. I doubt what happened in it will really impact any future storylines.