Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

[william-james88]

Is this a KO? I thought the micromaster reissues were all individualy boxed:

They are, but the boxes themselves are in a bigger display box. You know, like those you find near a register?

So that's the bigger display box? This is not a ko?

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Is this a KO? I thought the micromaster reissues were all individualy boxed:

They are, but the boxes themselves are in a bigger display box. You know, like those you find near a register?

So that's the bigger display box? This is not a ko?

It shouldn't be a KO, they don't come in boxes as fancy as that. Anybody want to give a second opinion?

[william-james88]

It shouldn't be a KO, they don't come in boxes as fancy as that. Anybody want to give a second opinion?

Your right! I missed an image in the listing:



Theres, the box you were talking about, it works!

I just sent an offer, I am hoping to get them for about 10$ US a piece (shipping included) thanks!

[RodimusRex]

Would ebay auctions claiming to have G2 MP Bumblebee in hand without packaging or jetpack likely be gold KOs of the first Bumblebee?

There are KOs of the mask and there are, I think, KOs of MP Bumblebee. (That said, my experience has been that KOs of MPs still tend to be excellent figures.) There are no pictures of the G2 logo exposed on these listings or the jetpack, which leads me to think maybe somebody started decoing G1 BB KOs in gold.

Or maybe it's a test shot or a manufacturer leak? I'd THINK any legit G2 BBs wouldn't be out until mid to late July.

[william-james88]

can you give us a link please?

[RodimusRex]

Hm. I'm having trouble finding that listing. There is this one:

http://www.ebay.com/itm/NEW-TAKARA-Tran ... 25a8b482e2

Decent price and doesn't claim to be a preorder.

But no packaging... and an unbelievably low price for free shipping, I'd think.

[prjkt]

we're close enough to release date that there's going to be a few Lena style factory extra sales coming up.

apparently Hasbro AU (and therefore Hasbro HK) has stock of G2 Bee and UW Superion already, just awaiting release dates.

[RodimusRex]

I thought that too but I also looked at that seller's eBay store and 90% of what they sell are 3rd party and KO.

I have a sneaking suspicion that a lot of what passes for KOs nowadays are actually factory copies from rejected runs or extra copies made "off the clock" with slightly less QC, or maybe molds/designs leaked from the factory. The plastic and mold detailing are too good and the releases seem too quick.

They're also selling Exhaust in what appears to be production accurate deco.

[prjkt]

I've wondered if some of the factories make "extras" to cover their costs for smaller runs of figures like MP or club exclusives, where the cost per unit is higher as the production run is smaller - some of the factories might be doing this on the side to recoup some labour/materials cost...

[william-james88]

It also doenst help that the company they credit in their ebay info (description of product) is "Takasa". Sounds like those fake company names meant to fool people. With that written in the official despcription area, they can always say, "Well look, we wrote Takasa there, not Takara, so buyer beware". Buyer beware indeed.

[fenrir72]

It shouldn't be a KO, they don't come in boxes as fancy as that. Anybody want to give a second opinion?

Your right! I missed an image in the listing:



Theres, the box you were talking about, it works!

I just sent an offer, I am hoping to get them for about 10$ US a piece (shipping included) thanks!

From what I see it's real but fair warning, I nearly bought one (not ebay but a specialty shop) with a double train part (two of the same character in the box) for a Sixliner set. Good thing I checked.

[MightyMagnus78]

Can't believe this MP09...

http://www.ebay.com/itm/151731155679?ss ... Track=true

Someone on TFW2005 swears these loose ones are legit, but at that price???

[RodimusRex]

The trick is that the KOs are often higher or equal quality to the Takara releases nowadays so you can't base it on quality. KOs also have managed to replicate the anti-counterfeiting features, including holograms.

I think some releases require a side by side comparison but the big thing I've noticed is:

- MP KOs seem to have sharper paint apps with less chipping.

- Highlight lines are gone.

- MP KOs have tighter joints and sharper sculpts.

- MP KOs make slight changes to the car company logo. They have no trouble infringing on the TF design or car design but they do seem scared of infringing on the car company's logo. KO Sideswipe is a "Lamborgthrl" "Cantach".

That's if there's any difference at all.

My suspicion is that there are now computer programs designed to combat mold degradation which are in use by pirates who I'd guess are 3D scanning figures. Very small details are "off" but usually in ways that improve the figure, tighten joints, and sharpen detail. Which says to me there's an auto-sharpening algorithm, maybe? But that it's messing up paint apps that are very small, like quarter millimeter details.

So my guess with the off site ones is that they're 3D scanned and molds and paint apps are printed after running some programs designed to combat mold degradation.

In general, with a loose figure, I'd say your best bets for identifying it as real are:

Quality of very small paint jobs, especially car logo on hood and rear. Takara release gets these right. They're blurred or garbled on KOs.

KOs will have sharper mold details, genuine will have lumpy elements.

Paint chipping is a sign of an authentic figure. If the paint doesn't chip, you probably have a KO.

[RodimusRex]

And if you have a real eye for color, Takara releases are perfectly matched to the licensed cars but the KOs tend to be slightly more vibrant and richer.

[-Kanrabat-]

Jeez...
A little more, and it look like we're better off with KOs than the real deal!

[william-james88]

Jeez...
A little more, and it look like we're better off with KOs than the real deal!

Only problem is if we all switch to KOs, there will be no more official products to KO.

Also, Sideswipe proved that KOs are not better.

[RodimusRex]

In general from what I have seen of the MPs, while -- as I said -- joints are tighter... Pegs are looser.

I think that maybe has to do with how they're sharpening the mold. They probably get a scan with slight lumpiness and then sharpen it. Joints fit together more tightly and details get sharpened but peg in features like G2 Sideswipe's spaulders don't peg in tightly.

Whatever approach they're using, however, seems to me like something that if Hasbro and Takara could adapt, they could probably recreate some lost G1 molds from inexpensively and get more life out of a mold, provided that after running the sharpening process, they remember to re-enlarge all the pegs.

[RodimusRex]

Jeez...
A little more, and it look like we're better off with KOs than the real deal!

Only problem is if we all switch to KOs, there will be no more official products to KO.

Also, Sideswipe proved that KOs are not better.

Yeah. The ethics of it are shoddy although it's hard to be sure if you're an import buyer on a budget.

What interests me more is what approach these KO makers are using. They've gotten really sophisticated.

With a bit of compensation for their mistakes, I think Hasbro could (if they haven't already) reissue things that we never thought could be reissued, get more life out of a mold, and probably manage to achieve re-tools that wouldn't have been possible before.

I'm not in the toy business but there's something interesting going on with KO manufacturing and I think it's something Hasbro and Takara could probably use.

[fenrir72]

Jeez...
A little more, and it look like we're better off with KOs than the real deal!

Only problem is if we all switch to KOs, there will be no more official products to KO.

Also, Sideswipe proved that KOs are not better.

Yeah. The ethics of it are shoddy although it's hard to be sure if you're an import buyer on a budget.

What interests me more is what approach these KO makers are using. They've gotten really sophisticated.

With a bit of compensation for their mistakes, I think Hasbro could (if they haven't already) reissue things that we never thought could be reissued, get more life out of a mold, and probably manage to achieve re-tools that wouldn't have been possible before.

I'm not in the toy business but there's something interesting going on with KO manufacturing and I think it's something Hasbro and Takara could probably use.

The oft mentioned alibi that the molds are all destroyed (Dinobots,WJ, Mirage etc) Yet Takara gave the KOers a zinger when out of the blue released Encore Metroflex and of course a slightly retooled and improved version of Encore 20/20A.

[MightyMagnus78]

So I take it that Rodimus was a KO then? Is he still worth getting?

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Jeez...
A little more, and it look like we're better off with KOs than the real deal!

Only problem is if we all switch to KOs, there will be no more official products to KO.

Also, Sideswipe proved that KOs are not better.

Yeah. The ethics of it are shoddy although it's hard to be sure if you're an import buyer on a budget.

What interests me more is what approach these KO makers are using. They've gotten really sophisticated.

With a bit of compensation for their mistakes, I think Hasbro could (if they haven't already) reissue things that we never thought could be reissued, get more life out of a mold, and probably manage to achieve re-tools that wouldn't have been possible before.

I'm not in the toy business but there's something interesting going on with KO manufacturing and I think it's something Hasbro and Takara could probably use.

The oft mentioned alibi that the molds are all destroyed (Dinobots,WJ, Mirage etc) Yet Takara gave the KOers a zinger when out of the blue released Encore Metroflex and of course a slightly retooled and improved version of Encore 20/20A.

Wheeljack, Mirage, Sunstreaker still have the lost/destroyed status until further notice. Metroplex was never considered as such, but the Constructicons... Something tells me they cut new molds for them (look at the minute differences between the original, and the reissue), but they were likely only able to because they found the Master from which the molds are made. Think of it like a physical blue print. Without it, you can do squat, like with the first 3 mentioned.

So I take it that Rodimus was a KO then? Is he still worth getting?

There are no MP-9 Rodimus Convoy KO's that I know of, but you can never be too careful. Do beware that the original mold has some problems, like fitting the trailer, or even worse, exploding shoulders (Hasbro versions) and very fragile knees (Black Rodimus Convoy)

[MightyMagnus78]

Jeez...
A little more, and it look like we're better off with KOs than the real deal!

Only problem is if we all switch to KOs, there will be no more official products to KO.

Also, Sideswipe proved that KOs are not better.

Yeah. The ethics of it are shoddy although it's hard to be sure if you're an import buyer on a budget.

What interests me more is what approach these KO makers are using. They've gotten really sophisticated.

With a bit of compensation for their mistakes, I think Hasbro could (if they haven't already) reissue things that we never thought could be reissued, get more life out of a mold, and probably manage to achieve re-tools that wouldn't have been possible before.

I'm not in the toy business but there's something interesting going on with KO manufacturing and I think it's something Hasbro and Takara could probably use.

The oft mentioned alibi that the molds are all destroyed (Dinobots,WJ, Mirage etc) Yet Takara gave the KOers a zinger when out of the blue released Encore Metroflex and of course a slightly retooled and improved version of Encore 20/20A.

Wheeljack, Mirage, Sunstreaker still have the lost/destroyed status until further notice. Metroplex was never considered as such, but the Constructicons... Something tells me they cut new molds for them (look at the minute differences between the original, and the reissue), but they were likely only able to because they found the Master from which the molds are made. Think of it like a physical blue print. Without it, you can do squat, like with the first 3 mentioned.

So I take it that Rodimus was a KO then? Is he still worth getting?

There are no MP-9 Rodimus Convoy KO's that I know of, but you can never be too careful. Do beware that the original mold has some problems, like fitting the trailer, or even worse, exploding shoulders (Hasbro versions) and very fragile knees (Black Rodimus Convoy)

Cheers JelZe, I've already got the Hasbro version and have suffered the dreaded shoulder breakage also. I only really want this for the trailer TBH.

[Jelze Bunnycat]

Also something to keep in mind is that if they're loose from China, chances are they're either stolen from the assembly line, or factory rejects. Speaking of the latter, lena has them on a regular basis

[william-james88]

Also something to keep in mind is that if they're loose from China, chances are they're either stolen from the assembly line, or factory rejects. Speaking of the latter, lena has them on a regular basis

Not as they used to. And I dont know if Lena ever had Rodimus.

[william-james88]

Is this a KO?

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Hot-Transformer ... SwcLxYI78-