Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 2:19 pm

Greetings All,

Sure I know top ten lists get exhausting at times, but I found this one to be of interest since the various Animated Transformers series are the strongest connection I have to the Robots in Disguise we all love.

So...what do you think? Agree/Disagree...

Personally I would reverse #1 and #3. after that, I'd definitely place some of the Japanese series (Victory, Masterforce etc...)on this list, certainly ahead of anything from the Unicron Trilogy, but it appears Japanese series were not considered for this list if they did not receive an official dub.

Also keep in mind that this is specific to animated series thus the reason comics, films, toy events, video games etc... were not included.

News Credits: 15 · by **PrymeStriker** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 4:37 pm

Transformers Energon is a series worth watching "for the stunning visuals alone?"

HAHAHAHAHHAHHAHAHGAHAHHAHAHAHAJHAJIAHAHAHJAKJjhahbajja

News Credits: 191 · by **Kurona** » Mon Apr 10, 2017 5:20 pm

Usually I'd be rolling my eyes at G1 being so high - seriously, iconography aside; from any objective standpoint it doesn't even make top 5 - but Energon being above anything is just unbelievable.
And c'mon, of all shows to praise for their animation... the Unicron Trilogy? Really? I don't think it needs to be explained what was wrong with Energon, and Armada's animation was outright unfinished! At least say Beast Wars was groundbreaking for the time or that Prime has some really impressive stuff late-game, but... but not this. Anything but this.

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 7:53 am

yeah watchmojo is pretty universally panned for its top 10 lists. I personally agree with the top 3 (just reverse BW & Prime). But I know I'm in the minority. Also lack of Japanese series indicates to me a lack of research. It's almost like they just figured out there were just enough to make a top 10 list, and did it just for the sake of doing it, and not really doing much research. Also the fact that RiD15 is better than any of the Unicron Trilogy, and was not even on the list is a big (?), even unfinished we can say that, unless season 3 is riddled with cut-rate animation and tons of dialogue errors, which I don't see happening, it is a solid mid-evel series among the various TF animated series over the years.

Also for TFA, when you lead off with "Don't let the departure in style steer you away" , that pretty much sums up all the problems I had with it. I know it is a universally beloved series, and the fact that it ranks #4 on this list is a testament to that (though it would be far lower in my own personal ranking). IMHO, the greatest writing in the world cant make garbage animation watchable, its the main reason why I've steered away from CN for the past decade or so (with few exceptions), I hear some people say some of the comedy series are actually well written, but I just cant stand to watch things that are ugly, and TFA has always been an affront to my eyes, yet somehow I managed to watch the whole series.

News Credits: 638 · by **ScottyP** » Tue Apr 11, 2017 8:31 pm

Movie season is quickly "researched" click bait season. Ah, feels like 2011 and 2014 all over.

That aside, isolated parts of Energon are absolutely stunning. The frame rate, weird CG to cel ratio, and, well, the plot drag it down. But again, in isolation, some parts look good

Masterforce and Beast Wars are objectively quite good but wow, there are some slow parts. Slow, barely watchable, meandering parts. Prime gets stuck in that too during the middle dregs of its first season.

No one knows Armada is good because they gave up on it, but the later half is so fun. Make the first half better and fix some of the rush job nature of it and it could be one of the best.

Honestly though, from top to bottom and giving some allowance to the dated CG, Beast Machines might be the actual best Transformers TV series when viewed through a critical lens. A clear overarching plot with a compelling mix of new and old characters, pitting themes of spirituality, the inner self, and interpersonal relationships at odds with genocidal eugenics. Botanica in Regen One might've been really weird and out of place, but the original use of the character is genuinely well done. Yeah, I think I need to rewatch ol' Beast Machines.

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 8:44 am

^ that is a good example from Energon. those few moments where the bots are not cell shaded, I was told were always "mistakes"...which always made me wonder, if it looked that good not cell shaded, why didn't they do the whole series like that?

News Credits: 191 · by **Kurona** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 9:23 am

While the cel-shaded parts of Energon do look quite nice, it speaks worse of the series rather than better when they had to use that for the parts the need to show emotion was imperative. The cel-shaded parts may be a diamond in the rough, but by the time you get to those diamonds the dig's just drained your enthusiasm for it completely.

I am tempted to rewatch Beast Machines because I feel I was viewing it through the lens of a sequel too much the first time around. Which, yes, I still feel it's a terrible sequel in terms of how the characters were handled among other things; but in isolation it doesn't seem that bad at all.

News Credits: 638 · by **ScottyP** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 11:29 am

o.supreme wrote:^ that is a good example from Energon. those few moments where the bots are not cell shaded, I was told were always "mistakes"...which always made me wonder, if it looked that good not cell shaded, why didn't they do the whole series like that?

I'm hard pressed to find a source so take this with a grain of salt, but I think those were leftover from early production when they were thinking it'd have a look and feel more like Armada. The CG heavy look that most of the show has was cheaper, so that's what we got. This was also the era where computer-based animation was just starting to become the norm, so there was likely some pressure to make it look "modern" if I had to guess.

Again, this is all to be taken mainly as conjecture

News Credits: 191 · by **Kurona** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 12:08 pm

ScottyP wrote:
o.supreme wrote:^ that is a good example from Energon. those few moments where the bots are not cell shaded, I was told were always "mistakes"...which always made me wonder, if it looked that good not cell shaded, why didn't they do the whole series like that?

I'm hard pressed to find a source so take this with a grain of salt, but I think those were leftover from early production when they were thinking it'd have a look and feel more like Armada. The CG heavy look that most of the show has was cheaper, so that's what we got. This was also the era where computer-based animation was just starting to become the norm, so there was likely some pressure to make it look "modern" if I had to guess.

Again, this is all to be taken mainly as conjecture

That explanation doesn't quite make sense as these scenes are all from random parts throughout the series; from near the beginning to the very final episode - it would have been much more plausible if there was a higher volume of it in a particular arc and if one or two episodes noticeably had a lot more of it, but instead it's random scenes littered throughout the series. I'm not going to pretend I know how production of a show like this works, but something tells me this isn't quite an explanation - and what would be the purpose of changing animation styles in the finished product just to use old (if better) animation?

The more likely one is that they were all scenes which specifically needed more expression - Galvatron's yawning, Inferno's defiant struggle against Decepticon programming, etc. That seems to be the common thread linking them all and it just brings to light even more how pathetic the 3D animation was at the time.

As for why they used this style of animation... it just seems to be a very unfortunate trend of mid-2000s anime to use this weird, unwieldy CGI alongside traditional cel-shading. Other examples I recall include Mirai Nikki and Fullmetal Alchemist: Brotherhood - though even those were smart enough to use that CGI very conservatively and only in certain scenes, rather than for a large majority of the main cast for every single episode.

News Credits: 638 · by **ScottyP** » Wed Apr 12, 2017 7:01 pm

Yeah now that I've had some time to look I can't find where I read that. May never have :lol:

News Credits: 435 · by **Sabrblade** » Thu Apr 20, 2017 1:30 am

This list is better, but still imperfect.

Frankly, if I were make such a top 10 list of just the U.S.-aired shows, and try to be as objective as possible by focusing on writing quality, acting quality, and animation quality all together collectively as a whole, I'd probably put them in this order:

10. Energon/Universe/Combiner Wars - tie
9. Cyber Missions
8. Playskool Go-Bots
7. G1/Armada/How To Ride Your Dinobot - tie
6. Cybertron
5. Prime/Robots in Disguise (2015) - tie
4. Beast Machines/Robots in Disguise (2001) - tie
3. Animated
2. Rescue Bots
1. Beast Wars

o.supreme wrote:yeah watchmojo is pretty universally panned for its top 10 lists.

What's worse is that, in one of their top 10 lists, they honestly once mistook TFCog's fandub of Beast Wars II for a legit official dub.

by **Doom Saber** » Sat Apr 22, 2017 2:45 am

When it comes to anime and cartoons, I would take Watchmojo.com top 10 with a grain of salt as the topic submissions and the polls are from watchmojo.com forum members.

That said, the forums members are likely teens and millennial whose real exposure to anime is Cartoon Network's early 2000s Toonami lineup.

For instance, a freaking English fan-dubbed of Beast Wars Second was among the top 10 worst anime English dubs of all time. Regardless of what you think about the BW2 fan-dub, it should have not been on the list as it was a standup. LOL

As for watchmojo's top 10 anime series and top 10 anime seriezof all time, it was literally the anime series shown on Cartoon Network's Toonami block during the late '90 to recent. One would think anime shows that have around for decades like Doremon, Speed Racer, Lupin III, Astroboy, Gatchaman, Gundam or Yatterman would be on the list. Instead, with the exception of One Piece and Dragonball Z, the two top 10 list names only recent anime series like Code Geass, Full Metal Alchemist, Gintama, Digimon, and Pokemon. What the hell!?

News Credits: 55 · by **o.supreme** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:22 am

Oh I totally get that, I just like to see how us fans react to polls from *outside* the fandom, as to the general populace. There was another recent poll on Yahoo's front page (linked to another site cannot recall which) but it was labeled "Top 15 MOST POWERFUL Transformers of all time"...but #15 was Bumblebee, so you now right from the get-go the list wasn't worth squat, but I figure its fun to share...if I can find that other one I'll definitely post it, its good for a laugh.

News Credits: 191 · by **Kurona** » Mon Apr 24, 2017 8:44 am

o.supreme wrote:Oh I totally get that, I just like to see how us fans react to polls from *outside* the fandom, as to the general populace. There was another recent poll on Yahoo's front page (linked to another site cannot recall which) but it was labeled "Top 15 MOST POWERFUL Transformers of all time"...but #15 was Bumblebee, so you now right from the get-go the list wasn't worth squat, but I figure its fun to share...if I can find that other one I'll definitely post it, its good for a laugh.

Oh boy, that one sounds good. 'Most powerful' or judging power levels or whatever like that is incredibly subjective as is considering the massive amounts of continuities, changing writers and such, and of course that fact that this is a franchise where most series have whichever character has the newest toy be the most powerful one that always wins the day. It'd be very difficult to make a list like that at all... and they pile on Bumblebee. God I want to see this.

News Credits: 12 · by **Evil Eye** » Sun May 28, 2017 3:18 pm

>WatchMojo
Nope. Not watching it. Nope nope nope nope nope.

I will say Armada gets a lot more hate than it deserves. The second half is actually pretty decent, and the Japanese version is INFINITELY superior to the dub. Not only is the acting better and the story not mangled to hell and back, but the animation was, you know, actually finished (and pretty impressive in places).

Also, Alexis is adorable. A shame she never became president. Maybe we wouldn't have been torn between Trumpykins and Shillary if she'd been available...Oh wait. She's Vietnamese, she legally can't run for president. Bugger.