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ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I wasn't really meaning it as an excuse, there's nothing wrong with War Within or the early IDW.

Didn't mean to imply you were, sorry. I'm just amused by the wording making it sound like one, and by how many things it could be used for. Read the last line of my previous post for an example.

I got it. I just wanted to make it clear I'm not one of the Furman apologists. Sure, he went of the rails a bit later on, but his Dreamwave stuff was on point. I just wish he was allowed to finish it. War Within, at least.

Anyway, back to Grimlock. Why on Earth would the green guy be called Grimlock in Robots in Disguise instead of say, Scoop or something, since he was a construction vehicle? I know they were going for different stuff, and the figure itself isn't bad, but should not have been called Grimlock.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:I wasn't really meaning it as an excuse, there's nothing wrong with War Within or the early IDW.

Didn't mean to imply you were, sorry. I'm just amused by the wording making it sound like one, and by how many things it could be used for. Read the last line of my previous post for an example.

I got it. I just wanted to make it clear I'm not one of the Furman apologists. Sure, he went of the rails a bit later on, but his Dreamwave stuff was on point. I just wish he was allowed to finish it. War Within, at least.

Anyway, back to Grimlock. Why on Earth would the green guy be called Grimlock in Robots in Disguise instead of say, Scoop or something, since he was a construction vehicle? I know they were going for different stuff, and the figure itself isn't bad, but should not have been called Grimlock.

His robot mode head has a kinda-similar visor, it touches on the idea of kids perceiving earth-movers as mechanical dinosaurs, and last but DEFINITELY not least: So that Hasbro would not lose their trademark on the name Grimlock.

The show had the Predacons, who were beasts, so why couldn't the good guys have beasts as well? Not call them Autobots, but something else? Dinobots would have worked. They would have been perfect foils to the Predacons, while the Autobots faced off with the Decepticons.

Rodimus Prime wrote:The show had the Predacons, who were beasts, so why couldn't the good guys have beasts as well? Not call them Aitobots, but something else? Dinobots would have worked. They would have been perfect foils to the Predacons, while the Autobots faced off with the Decepticons.

You do realize that Aaron Archer had no control over who got used in the show (it wasn't a collaboration like the Unicron Trilogy) and the character was called something else ("Build Hurricane") in the original Japanese version, right?

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The show had the Predacons, who were beasts, so why couldn't the good guys have beasts as well? Not call them Aitobots, but something else? Dinobots would have worked. They would have been perfect foils to the Predacons, while the Autobots faced off with the Decepticons.

You do realize that Aaron Archer had no control over who got used in the show (it wasn't a collaboration like the Unicron Trilogy) and the character was called something else ("Build Hurricane") in the original Japanese version, right?

Yeah, the Japanese version made sense. There were no Dinobots, so there shouldn't have been a character called Grimlock. Whoever was in charge of renaming them for the American version needs a kick in the ass. And I didn't say **** about Archer, I don't know why you brought him up.

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The show had the Predacons, who were beasts, so why couldn't the good guys have beasts as well? Not call them Aitobots, but something else? Dinobots would have worked. They would have been perfect foils to the Predacons, while the Autobots faced off with the Decepticons.

You do realize that Aaron Archer had no control over who got used in the show (it wasn't a collaboration like the Unicron Trilogy) and the character was called something else ("Build Hurricane") in the original Japanese version, right?

Yeah, the Japanese version made sense. There were no Dinobots, so there shouldn't have been a character called Grimlock. Whoever was in charge of renaming them for the American version needs a kick in the ass. And I didn't say **** about Archer, I don't know why you brought him up.

Here's why I brought him up:

Reason one:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Whoever was in charge of renaming them for the American version

To the best of my knowledge that was, in fact, Aaron Archer. If it was someone else in charge of that at the time, somebody please tell me who.

Reason two:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The show had the Predacons, who were beasts, so why couldn't the good guys have beasts as well? Not call them Aitobots, but something else? Dinobots would have worked. They would have been perfect foils to the Predacons, while the Autobots faced off with the Decepticons.

Your saying this seemed to imply you thought that whoever who chose the name "Grimlock" for the character - again, to the best of my knowledge that was Aaron Archer - had control of who was in the show. If that was not in fact what you meant, I apologize.

Thinking about what else you could have meant... I will say that with the exception of Air Attack Optimus Primal (a blatant BM leftover who couldn't really be packaged as a baddy), the US toyline maintained the show's distinction of all the beasts being baddies (Bruticus, another BM leftover (and another trademark benchwarmer) who would have been a Maximal in that line, ended up a Predacon in RID). Possibly because the bad guy beasts were already recycling Beast Wars molds and Hasbro would have had to do the same to give the good guys beasts (at least, as far as dinosaurs are concerned).
They did ultimately do a "Dinobots" sideline (that was years later declared to be part of RiD) but that took til 2003.

And, well, I don't think they were comfortable with leaving the trademark on Grimlock's name undefended in the mean time. It's what I call "trademark benchwarming" and I doubt it's ever going away.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The show had the Predacons, who were beasts, so why couldn't the good guys have beasts as well? Not call them Aitobots, but something else? Dinobots would have worked. They would have been perfect foils to the Predacons, while the Autobots faced off with the Decepticons.

You do realize that Aaron Archer had no control over who got used in the show (it wasn't a collaboration like the Unicron Trilogy) and the character was called something else ("Build Hurricane") in the original Japanese version, right?

Yeah, the Japanese version made sense. There were no Dinobots, so there shouldn't have been a character called Grimlock. Whoever was in charge of renaming them for the American version needs a kick in the ass. And I didn't say **** about Archer, I don't know why you brought him up.

Here's why I brought him up:

Reason one:

Rodimus Prime wrote:Whoever was in charge of renaming them for the American version

To the best of my knowledge that was, in fact, Aaron Archer. If it was someone else in charge of that at the time, somebody please tell me who.

But the quote you put in bold was stated after you mentioned Archer. I said nothing about the people in charge at the time.

Reason two:

Rodimus Prime wrote:The show had the Predacons, who were beasts, so why couldn't the good guys have beasts as well? Not call them Aitobots, but something else? Dinobots would have worked. They would have been perfect foils to the Predacons, while the Autobots faced off with the Decepticons.

Your saying this seemed to imply you thought that whoever who chose the name "Grimlock" for the character - again, to the best of my knowledge that was Aaron Archer - had control of who was in the show. If that was not in fact what you meant, I apologize.

Well, let's get this straight. The show was made (written, animated and voiced) in Japan first. Correct? If so, did Hasbro (and by extension, Archer) have any say in any aspect of it? Or was Hasbro basically forced to take whatever the japs churned out and just rewrite the story and dub it in English? If so, then whoever was in charge of giving the characters their American names is at fault for naming a green construction vehicle Grimlock. Yes, I know why, to keep the trademark. But was there no cooperation between Takara and Hasbro at all? Couldn't Archer say 'Hey, we want to use the name Grimlock, can you put a dinosaur in there for the good guys?' Or if we go by your point of recycling BW molds, it was a perfect opportunity to bring in Dinobot and name him Grimlock, the name of the character that inspired him. Even if it would have been weird that he was the only good guy beast in the cast.

Rodimus Prime wrote:Well, let's get this straight. The show was made (written, animated and voiced) in Japan first. Correct? If so, did Hasbro (and by extension, Archer) have any say in any aspect of it? Or was Hasbro basically forced to take whatever the japs churned out and just rewrite the story and dub it in English?

The latter, Hasbro was completely uninvolved with the production of RID. They weren't even going to use it originally, they only brought it over (a year after it was finished) when the line they were working on at the time was scrapped. They would have had no opportunity or motivation to ask Takara to include specific toys.

Also keep in mind that at the time no one cared whether or not characters with reused names resembled their original counterparts in any way, this was hardly limited to just Grimlock.

Okay, so they just threw out some names, and wherever they landed, they were used by those characters. With the exception of Optimus and Megatron, of course. So RID Grimlock could have been pretty much anyone on the show.

No arguing with the top of the list, MP-8 still king!

I feel like the Classics/Henkei tooling has aged well when taken strictly as an update of the inner Pretender Grimlock. I know that one was a disappointment to many for a while, but now that bigger, more '85-like updates exist it's easier to appreciate what that one did right. It certainly still has issues but I like it more than say the Studio Series one.

I like Classics / Henkei Grimmy a lot too. He's a fun toy. Yeah, he's WAY too small, but aside from that I like him a lot. The look, the posability ... just an overall good figure IMO.

I thought about making an all-new thread, but I think my questions fit in here.

Which Voyager sized Grimlock toy is your favorite, and which do you think represents G1 Grimlock the best?

Unfortunately, there aren’t that many Voyager Grimlocks.

If you are looking for G1 updates I think FOC does it best. Specifically the G1 looking version that came with Silver Knight Deluxe Movie Prime.




Beyond that, Animated is a really fun figure.


Transformers Animated Grimlock Gallery


If you like the movie aesthetic, SS i guess.

If you care for a Grimlock that does not turn into a dinosaur, there’s always Alternators Grimlock. Though his transformation is one of the more annoying of that line and you could argue he’s not technically voyager class.



Transformers Alternators Grimlock Gallery

I think my favorites are FOC and Animated.
.

Rodimus Prime wrote:I thought about making an all-new thread, but I think my questions fit in here.

Which Voyager sized Grimlock toy is your favorite, and which do you think represents G1 Grimlock the best?

Fall of Cybertron remains my favorite Grimlock toy. I love it so much.

SS is 2nd best to me, that is such a well done toy that is also so well painted and detailed.

Animated is great too. All 3 of the above listed are great toys

One thing I will definitely give Animated Grimlock kudos for is having proper theropod legs in dino mode whilst still making the legs into proper arms for robot mode. I like the chunky tail-dragging G1 design but there is something very cool about the more anatomically accurate digitigrade legs of the Animated version.

So no love for the PoTP voyager?

Rodimus Prime wrote:So no love for the PoTP voyager?

Gotta be honest, I think he's not that bad. I quite like the way they handled the gold with it being painted on the inside of translucent parts (I'd like the SS86 version better if they did that), and overall I think he looks alright. Also the combined mode isn't irredeemably bad like, say, Menasor- it needs upgrades to really shine but the upgrade takes him from "Meh" to "Wow!" as opposed to "Car crash" to "Barely acceptable". I know some people really don't like the Dinobots combining, but myself I think it's kinda cool.

In terms of Grimlocks I like (bearing in mind I'm going off aesthetics and second-hand experience as the only Grimlock I own is a redeco of Prime Rippersnapper) I'd say some of my favourites are the AOE SS (really gives him that vibe of a living mechanical fossil in addition to just looking plain badass), MP-08 (probably has aged better than any other pre-MP10 Masterpiece), Animated (really captures the aesthetic, and as mentioned the dino leg transformation is cool) and the TAV retool of FOC Grimlock (takes a mediocre figure and makes it awesome, also I do love the colours). I'd also like to give an honourable mention to Classics Grimlock. Whilst he's by no means perfect, I do like his unique take on the transformation, and the robot design is kinda neat with that lovely head, bayonet-blaster and the Xabungle-style chest. And the tyrannosaurus mode is still great IMO.

Rodimus Prime wrote:So no love for the PoTP voyager?

It's just OK. It doesn't do anything particularly well, so it's got no real big thing going for it

I like the PotP Voyager. I find him to be a very fun and serviceable Grimlock. Doesn't loom the way SS86 Grimlock will, and in fact comes up shorter than CW Optimus in robot mode, but he's still decent. I like his looks and transformation better than the FoC mold.
I also enjoy the combined mode, without the add-ons even. I liked the idea of the Dinobots combining (they make the Decepticons tremble even while separate, so them combining... Plus that way Grimlock can better fight alongside his kids).
I actually made a custom sword for Volcanicus that's aesthetically in line with the actual G1 Dinobot swords (and in fact combines features from each).

And yes, Volcanicus not the cluster**** that Menasor is thanks to the CW Optimus mold being designed as an Optimus first and a torso second (by which I mean that the combiner functionality seems to have been a secondary consideration considering A. how horrendously it's implemented and B. if you retooled the figure to take it out the only noticeable change would be no sleeper on the truck cab).