The Energon Pub

News Credits: 1 · Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:19 pm

Cool list. Great jet modes. Thanks for the real life comparison pictures. Thanks WJ.

News Credits: 226 · Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:53 pm

william-james88 wrote:
Burn wrote:
Ultra Markus wrote:jetfire wouldnt be on the list because hes not based on a real jet
but maybe TF prime Skyquake/Dreadwing could be since they appear to be based off real jets

Is the list based solely on "real" jets though? It doesn't explicitly say that.

It doesnt?
They all distinguish themselves in either their accuracy, engineering or design. And most of all, these jets look amazing in robot mode and have a very tight alt mode, which is crucial in a jet transformer (all these are based on real jets too).

No, it doesn't.

Putting it in bold doesn't help. You put it in brackets, to me, that's an after thought.

Read what I said, "it doesn't explicitly say that". All you say about this list is that it's the "Top 5 Best Jet Transformers". You haven't clearly defined what a "jet" is to meet your list.

So as I said, ENERGON STARSCREAM FTW.

News Credits: 12 · Sun Nov 05, 2017 2:54 pm

Well Energon Starscream is based on an F-22, so he still counts.

News Credits: 241 · Sun Nov 05, 2017 3:02 pm

I only have one figure to add, not surprisingly it's a movie figure:

Revenge of the Fallen Dirge

Transformers Revenge of the Fallen Dirge Gallery

He may have a lot of random kibble in robot mode, resulting in him looking messy, but he is one of the very jets to have pulled off a vehicle mode without a lot of undercarriage junk or robot parts in plain sight:

As for the jet mode's inspiration, the front with the intakes is evocative of a Harrier Jump Jet (from the shape of the cockpit, the AV-8B) while the back I can't really determine:

:EDIT: No love for G1 Powerglide and the A10 Thunderbolt II?

News Credits: 17 · Sun Nov 05, 2017 9:51 pm

Terradive should've been NUMBAH WHONNN!!!!!

Mon Nov 06, 2017 7:13 am

I was always partial to the oft-forgotten Robotmasters seeker mold over the Classics mold, at least in terms of the jet mode. It has proper landing gear and the cockpit actually opens, and the proportions are sleeker and closer to an F-15 and G1.

The Classics robot mode is a little better but it takes a lot of cues from RM. The RM mold is a nice in-between from G1 to Classics. It keeps much of the transformation of G1 but overcomes its partsformer limitations. Classics just kept up the same philosophy but made it bulkier and boxier. And the null-ray cannons on Classics are way too big IMO - not just the rounded ends but the launcher part itself.

Agree with other posters that MP mold should be #1. I suppose it depends on whether the goal of the post is to list "best TFs overall who turn into jets" or "TFs with the best jet modes". (Though either way MP is pretty good, though not perfect.)

News Credits: 2 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:01 am

Burn wrote:
william-james88 wrote:
Burn wrote:
Ultra Markus wrote:jetfire wouldnt be on the list because hes not based on a real jet
but maybe TF prime Skyquake/Dreadwing could be since they appear to be based off real jets

Is the list based solely on "real" jets though? It doesn't explicitly say that.

It doesnt?
They all distinguish themselves in either their accuracy, engineering or design. And most of all, these jets look amazing in robot mode and have a very tight alt mode, which is crucial in a jet transformer (all these are based on real jets too).

No, it doesn't.

Putting it in bold doesn't help. You put it in brackets, to me, that's an after thought.

Read what I said, "it doesn't explicitly say that". All you say about this list is that it's the "Top 5 Best Jet Transformers". You haven't clearly defined what a "jet" is to meet your list.

So as I said, ENERGON STARSCREAM FTW.

I think if we add none realistic jets in to discussion, the list will explode. :lol:

I like to throw in a few. Cybertron Sideways and TR Triggerhappy.

News Credits: 1646 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 1:02 pm

Having obtained Botcon Depthcharge from Terradive this weekend, I fully agree with that listing. That mold is dead awesome, makes a great jet, and is very unique. I love it.

The way Nitro folds up, his underside really doesn't look that much like kibble, unless you go looking for it. So he is pretty good there too. And his bot mode is awesome.

Mon Nov 06, 2017 3:45 pm

What a great an easily forgotten toy. Pretty sure this is technically a jet!

Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:18 pm

I am now asking if anyone else has even thought about Thrilling 30s Megatron as the B-2 Stealth Bomber, even as an Honorable Mention?

News Credits: 241 · Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:27 pm

DarkEnergon wrote:What a great an easily forgotten toy. Pretty sure this is technically a jet!

Technically the toy represents a jet-powered craft for sure, but the vehicle mode itself is based more on WWII Bomber planes, which had propellers.

Mon Nov 06, 2017 4:55 pm

Yet.Another.Autobot wrote:I am now asking if anyone else has even thought about Thrilling 30s Megatron as the B-2 Stealth Bomber, even as an Honorable Mention?

Forgot about that one and the g2 dreading version both have great robot modes and a jet mode

Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:21 am

Burn wrote:I've never understood the obsession some people have with Movie Starscream, sure, the jet mode is nice, but the robot mode is an ugly piece of ****.

Because people have different opinions? I like the design at least, and this post has more to do with the engineering anyway.

Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:14 pm

TLK Nitro has to be on the list. One of the best Transformers in years.

News Credits: 293 · Tue Nov 07, 2017 10:20 pm

Microraptor wrote:
Burn wrote:I've never understood the obsession some people have with Movie Starscream, sure, the jet mode is nice, but the robot mode is an ugly piece of ****.
Because people have different opinions? I like the design at least, and this post has more to do with the engineering anyway.

BAYSCREAM FANBOYS UNITE

I love the design, and the figures are great. I like him best in the first movie, every scene he's in still gives me goosbumps. In subsequent films, for some reason they decided to make him into the sniveling coward he was in G1 :roll:

News Credits: 22 · Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:38 am

My favorite jet molds, in no particular order:

TLK Leader Megatron
HFTD Starscream
Armada Starscream/Thundercracker
Prime 1st Edition Starscream
Combiner Wars Leader Screamer/Cracker/Warper

Honorable mentions:

RoTF Leader Jetfire (Only because I'm a sucker for the Blackbird, and I like the look of the Optimus/Jetfire combo. The robot mode, while accurate, is repulsive.)

Thrilling 30 Deluxe Megatron/G2 Dreadwing/TLK Deluxe Megatron

News Credits: 101 · Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:42 pm

shajaki wrote:
Microraptor wrote:
Burn wrote:I've never understood the obsession some people have with Movie Starscream, sure, the jet mode is nice, but the robot mode is an ugly piece of ****.
Because people have different opinions? I like the design at least, and this post has more to do with the engineering anyway.
BAYSCREAM FANBOYS UNITE

I love the design, and the figures are great. I like him best in the first movie, every scene he's in still gives me goosbumps. In subsequent films, for some reason they decided to make him into the sniveling coward he was in G1

Back in my early collecting days, I hated Movie Starscream Doritos-n-chicken appearance. Then I gave the HFTD leader a chance because it was on sale on Boxing Day for 40SCAN.

The rest is History.

News Credits: 2 · Fri Nov 10, 2017 11:39 am

I agree that MP03 should be top of the list. You say it should have a great robot mode? That robot mode is great. Oh boo hoo, he has some hip holster things. It doesn't detract from the figure, but instead gives it a unique look and dynamic. It's only an issue if you demand screen accuracy, but I don't think that should be a criteria for good jet toys. The MP seeker mould, original version, has a flawless jet mode. No kibble in robot mode except the hip skirts. Has lots of fun little things in it like the nose cone radar, the changing face, the flaps and has some nice real world markings like No Step and Beware of Jet Blast. It has a flight stand it clips onto steady so it can pull off in flight poses and the robot mode is expressive. The only real negative (other than the hip kibble which, like I said, shouldn't be a factor on this list for screen accuracy) is the hips don't swing out wide. Standing issues? I had an MP screamer stood on his shelf by himself for years without falling over. Just use his thrusters angled backwards for heels.

So yeah. If you are talking purely about good toys, the original seeker mould should get it. Specifically, the original green release. Because while the remoulded MP11 version is a better MP and is more screen accurate, the jet mode suffers slightly in the rear, meaning it is a slightly inferior jet toy.

But there are some great choices on this list.

News Credits: 4878 · Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:38 am

Insurgent wrote:So yeah. If you are talking purely about good toys, the original seeker mould should get it. Specifically, the original green release. Because while the remoulded MP11 version is a better MP and is more screen accurate, the jet mode suffers slightly in the rear, meaning it is a slightly inferior jet toy.
But there are some great choices on this list.

I have a question for you. Of all the toys mentioned on the list, including MP 03, which feels more dated? Which would you recomend to newcomers in the hobby, people who want to collect what they might have missed out on in the past?
Because I really feel MP 03 is not a great toy. He is super fiddly, not fun to transform. And any Takara release was pretty pricey. Especially the remolded MP 11. I think it has terrible value for what you get, especially compared to other MPs like Ironhide. Its just not a toy i would recomend to anyone. My opinion of course.
And I know you were talking about MP03, which does have a great jet mode. But I dont like the robot mode much. I think he looks off, with the feet, lack of decent heels, the receded head. And while I am not a fan of the dangling hip kibble, which I dont think looks good regardless of screen accuracy or not (feels super lazy to me), the kibble I dislike the most are those 2 jet panel kibbles on the side of his air vents next to his head. They just sit there adding nothing to the robot mode aside from breaking up the profile/outline of the robot. And they are a real bitch when transforming, always popping off.

Transformers Masterpiece Starscream (MP-03) Gallery

I truly feel the MP seeker (andy version) is one of the most overrated TF toys out there. And I was not the only one to think so.

News Credits: 2 · Sat Nov 11, 2017 5:35 am

Value for money is not something i factored in. Because that's out of the toys hands. It was all about the physicality of the figure. I honestly don't think it's that fiddly of a transformation, just really involved and don't get me wrong, im not saying it's perfect, i acknowledged it has flaws.

All those visual cues you mention i honestly don't find th same. Feet look fine, heels i use his thrusters angled back and the head feels like it's the perfect spot. Any further forward and i think it would look stupid. Of course this is all opinion so we wilp never agree and that's fine. I understand where you are coming from and why you think the way you do. And yes, the hip skirts can be seen as lazy but i honestly don't mind. And those bits on his vents add some beefiness to him, looks a little muscular. If there were other criteria at play, i might not put the mp seeker top. But going off realistic alt mode with no kibble, transformation, and looking great in all modes, i got to give it to this.

As for your question, no i wouldn't recommended this for a first timer. I would recomend a scout sized figure. Not an mp. Deluxe at most. That doesn't mean they are better figures, that means they are a lot cheaper and provide an easier introduction. After all, when learning to cook, you start with something simple like mash poato and work up to the gourmet stuff.

Looking at the list again, i also realise the only moulds on that list I've got are terradive and classic seekers. And looking at the leader screamer gallery, it's underside is a lot cleaner than i thought it was. So maybe that does get one as i imagine it's very durable and mp03 gets second spot.

News Credits: 101 · Sat Nov 11, 2017 8:21 am

william-james88 wrote:I truly feel the MP seeker (andy version) is one of the most overrated TF toys out there. And I was not the only one to think so.

I feel that way too. Especially after MP-11 betrayed me with it's absurd price for a figure that fell as cheap as a regular 50$ leader. The MP seeker mold should be redone ENTIRELY. For now, KO and 3P companies are doing that, but I don't want HASTAK to do it yet. Way too much characters need to finally have the official MP treatment.

As for the best jet toy for a newcomer or a child? Definitely any one of the classic deluxe seeker mold. That toy is simply perfect, with a great jet mode and an amazing robot mode. Plus, an easy and fun transformation.

Even my friend who only love land vehicles and is extremely critical about jet-formers bought a few of the classic seekers. This tell a lot.

The classic deluxe seeker mold may not be the #1 jet, but it's the definitive #1 toy.

News Credits: 293 · Sat Nov 11, 2017 12:03 pm

william-james88 wrote:I have a question for you. Of all the toys mentioned on the list, including MP 03, which feels more dated?

This might sound odd, but I don't find MP-03 dated. But I do find the MP-11 dated. Maybe because the remolding didn't help the figure in any way besides (a little) cartoon accuracy.

william-james88 wrote:Which would you recomend to newcomers in the hobby?

That is an unfair question. Obviously not, but there are reasons. Namely the complexity would be daunting, and the aftermarket price is sickening. I would however absolutely recommend him to an MP fan with a deep wallet, a Seeker enthusiast, or a real world jet enthusiast.

william-james88 wrote:Because I really feel MP 03 is not a great toy. He is super fiddly, not fun to transform. And any Takara release was pretty pricey. Especially the remolded MP 11.

I've got 5 MP-03's, and I don't find any of them fiddly. And while involved, I love transforming them. But I could see how they border on frustrating. The MP-11 though, you've heard me complain endlessly about their instability so you get no argument from me about that.

william-james88 wrote:And I know you were talking about MP03, which does have a great jet mode. But I dont like the robot mode much. I think he looks off, with the feet, lack of decent heels, the receded head. And while I am not a fan of the dangling hip kibble, which I dont think looks good regardless of screen accuracy or not (feels super lazy to me), the kibble I dislike the most are those 2 jet panel kibbles on the side of his air vents next to his head.

I have zero problems with his robot mode... aside from those vent kibbles. Admittedly they are frustrating.

But hey! It's all opinion Will, and I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just have a huge love on for MP-3 Starscream, and I'll fight for him any day

News Credits: 4878 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 1:16 am

shajaki wrote:But hey! It's all opinion Will, and I'm not trying to be argumentative. I just have a huge love on for MP-3 Starscream, and I'll fight for him any day

And I will forever welcome it

Though I truly think we see the same pros and cons and are mostly on the same page. They are just less of a deal breaker for one than for the other. I do like how for both of us, that kibble hanging off the side of his head is worse than the hip kibble.

We are totally on the same page for MP 11. While he may be an improvement in some aspects (and I personally do preffer that toy in the instances when the torso is secure) its a real slap on the face when you compare to other masterpiece toys which chose to make a whole new figure from the ground up. Unlike Megatron, Optimus and Hot Rod (and Ultra Magnus?) he isn't a 2.0 version but a 1.5 instead. And based off a mold that was admittedly never meant to be a screen accurate G1 Starscream (the hip kibble being intentional to represent the evolution of the Starscream character in all renditions with the latest one being more of a sword wielder). All to say, I totally see more merrit in MP 03 as a toy than MP 11, even though I may preffer transforming MP 11 and having him on my shelf next to other MPs.

I do also get super ticked off that a toy that wasnt supposed to be a G1 accurate starscream and which was retooled into one was then further retooled into the coneheads. Like with that much retooling, why not make a new mold? It will be reused by the other coneheads for crying out loud!!!

Oh and when speaking of prices, I was reffering to the price of the toys when they could be bought initially and not the secondary market. I always found the MP seekers on the pricey side. Glad some fans were able to get the Hasbro versions for cheaper.

News Credits: 12 · Mon Nov 13, 2017 12:49 pm

A new Seeker mold is definitely needed, though given the recent route of MPs being completely enslaved to cartoon accuracy to an unhealthy degree, to the point where it impacts on their quality (lookin' at you Megatron) I fear an MP Seeker 3.0 would be an overly complicated, devoid of interesting detail yet simultaneously covered in ugly hinge joints mess of a thing. And at the risk of seeming like a complete fanboy, I actually have no idea how a Seeker 3.0 would top Howling Meteor short of literally taking the mold, maybe resculpting a few bits (adding more jet details and...well that's about it really), sticking some 'con tampos on it, and putting it in a Takara box. I mean, that's not me fanboying over Maketoys (well it kind of is I suppose but hear me out), as some MPs with a very good 3P alternative still stand on their own filling a different niche. Case in point, for all my misgivings about him, MP-36- I prefer Despotron but I can appreciate the sheer cartoon accuracy of the official figure and why that would appeal. But for Starscream, the unofficial version is both a better toy than the current Takara offering, AND looks pretty much as accrurate as a transformable, poseable version of the G1 Seeker design can look.

As for which one I prefer out of the two official offerings, I'm more of an MP-03 guy. Not because I think it's completely superior to MP-11 (the latter has better heels and is obviously more accurate) but the sheer gorgeousness of the jet mode, slightly better solidity due to not having been redecoed to death by that point, and the admittedly pretty cool hip pods win me over. MP-11 should have been a new mold rather than trying to make MP-03 (a love letter to the F-15) into a "Robot mode first" figure. Also it would have avoided the wobbliness brought on by excessive reuse of the mold.

Another mold (a movie one, surprise surprise) I'm very fond of is the Dreadwing/Overcast/Fearswoop mold. The robot mode is not without its faults but is quirky and original, and the jet mode is pretty neat too, with fairly minimal undercarriage junk (and the folded up legs kind of look like a drop tank) and very nice detailing. Plus, the MiG-29 is a lovely plane.

News Credits: 656 · Tue Nov 14, 2017 2:26 pm

SpikeyTigertron wrote:http://www.transformerland.com/wiki/transformers/g2/#skyscorchers "skyscorchers" those were the guys I was thinking of. I'm pretty sure some of them are based of "real modern jets".

Yes. Just, yes, positively, absolutely agreed. Those were pure magic at the time, and in a way they still are. Eagle Eye has one of the most fluid transformations ever realized on a smaller scale Transformers toy.