Seibertron.com Energon Pub Forums

Yotsuyasan wrote:While he has always been a Voyager, I think I recall hearing once that he wasn't originally designed as a part of Titans Return. (If anyone can back me up with a source, awesome.) Hence why he has a flip up mask rather then the pylons on either side of his head that every other Titans Return Voyager has, and why the compartment that the mask folds into being cavernous enough to hold an entire head.

The compartment is big because he was supposed to come with a bigger, possibly better fitting, helmet.



Evidence that the figure was always meant to be part of TR can be found all over the figure, stuff that would have made it easier to perhaps just make an entirely new mold rather than modifying an existing one. You've got the seat in the cannon, the entire flight mode cockpit, and there's all of the places for the Titan Masters to be pegged onto. There's nothing that indicates the figure was meant to be used somewhere else.

Emerje

william-james88 wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:What would be neat us if you could get access to abandoned designs and show us the top 5 tfs we would never get.

I have been wanting to do something like that for a while. One about planned redecos we never got and another about another about planned toys we never got (like that unicron toy). And for that I would need some database since i dont know them all and I cant go on every TFwiki page to see.

But the more I think about it, most of those toys we ended up getting (like we finally got a unicron for instance) and they are better than the toys we might have wantd initially. Like an MP Blue Bluestreak instead of a G1 blue bluestreak. Sorry for going off topic, just wanted to say taht I have been thinking about that but not sure how to go about it to give you guys something good.

I quite like the idea of a "Top 5 Remakes of Toys We Never Got" kind of list. Obviously the title needs some tweaking, but it'd probably be easier to research than a plain ol' "Toys We Never Got" type list. Either one of those sounds really interesting though!

william-james88 wrote:

RK_Striker_JK_5 wrote:Okay, this list definitely gives one food for thought. Quite a clever one this time, Willy.

Thanks a bunch!

ZeroWolf wrote:What would be neat us if you could get access to abandoned designs and show us the top 5 tfs we would never get.

I have been wanting to do something like that for a while. One about planned redecos we never got and another about another about planned toys we never got (like that unicron toy). And for that I would need some database since i dont know them all and I cant go on every TFwiki page to see.

But the more I think about it, most of those toys we ended up getting (like we finally got a unicron for instance) and they are better than the toys we might have wantd initially. Like an MP Blue Bluestreak instead of a G1 blue bluestreak. Sorry for going off topic, just wanted to say taht I have been thinking about that but not sure how to go about it to give you guys something good.

Well you haven't done a list that I've dissapointed with yet, so no matter how you go about it I'm sure we'll be entertained

speaking of diaclone or microman leftovers the G1 megatron toy originally shot red plastic pellets that hasbro left out when they sold it in the us

Top canceled/unproduced figures wouldn't be hard to source, TFWiki keeps a list. My own list would include G1 Unicron, Alternators Bumblebee, and the G.I.Joe crossover missile launcher.

Emerje

Emerje wrote:Top canceled/unproduced figures wouldn't be hard to source, TFWiki keeps a list. My own list would include G1 Unicron, Alternators Bumblebee, and the G.I.Joe crossover missile launcher.

Emerje

Ah, now that's some clever reverse-engineering right there to get a list of cancelled figures. Well Will, you've got no excuse now!

Snarl's seat never bothered me as a child. I thought it was to store the missiles and it's what I used it for.
I also I don't know how it looks on grimlock and the others, but on snarl it doesn't looks like a seat at all.

It's a pretty limited list, but bringing up G1 Perceptor's "fan mode" justify it.
Ignoring a perfect tank mode that was previously official. Seriously? Because Autobots cannot be tanks? We did had Warpath and Guzzle though. So what gives?

honestly, I would mind galvatron a bit less if his titan master wasn't inexplicably slightly bigger than every other titan master and he didn't end up shelfwarming so hard my toys r us ended up with an endcap of galvatrons at one point that called back to endcaps of inferno/scavenger.

more on topic, the dinobot seats are more confusing when you consider that only four of them have one, swoop has no seat at all

Ok now what bugs me is Jazz's wrists have mushroom pegs and no way to rotate them. Someone explain that.

https://youtu.be/OcAOhD_zO54?t=10m20s

WreckerJack wrote:Ok now what bugs me is Jazz's wrists have mushroom pegs and no way to rotate them. Someone explain that.

https://youtu.be/OcAOhD_zO54?t=10m20s

Yeah, why? It just increase the number of parts and the production cost for no reasons.

-Kanrabat- wrote:

WreckerJack wrote:Ok now what bugs me is Jazz's wrists have mushroom pegs and no way to rotate them. Someone explain that.

https://youtu.be/OcAOhD_zO54?t=10m20s

Yeah, why? It just increase the number of parts and the production cost for no reasons.

I've seen it thrown around, as a possible explanation, that the mold is designed with another set of hands in mind, so the mushroom-pegged hands allow that part to be swapped out without needing to make an entirely-new set of lower arms that are otherwise identical above the wrist (a la some Combiner Wars figures). That idea makes a bit of sense to me, but it is still an odd choice for sure either way.

WreckerJack wrote:Ok now what bugs me is Jazz's wrists have mushroom pegs and no way to rotate them. Someone explain that.

https://youtu.be/OcAOhD_zO54?t=10m20s

So it'll be easier to swap in a gun, duh.





I'm joking, but I might have just convince myself it's true...

Emerje

I nominate TR Fort Max's shoulder swivel, left over from Metroplex. It's a huge joint, taking up a lot of space in the chest. Was it really cheaper to produce that joint - with its redesigned exterior - than it would have been to change it to something simpler?

But I try to be positive about it - maybe the corners they cut on Fort Max enabled them to make Trypticon that much more awesome.

The ass wheel on Perceptor never bothered me. I just figured that's what the mobile lab was supposed to look like.

Sure enjoy these lists though. Thanks Seibertron men.

WreckerJack wrote:I thought Percy's buttwheel was so he could roll in microscope mode.

it doesnt touch the grond in microscope mode



I just realized, looking at the pic of the microchange toy, that I mistransformed his tank mode by not pulling out the inside of the legs. But that should be forgiven, its not like Hasbro ever published instructions for it

Qwan wrote:

-Kanrabat- wrote:

WreckerJack wrote:Ok now what bugs me is Jazz's wrists have mushroom pegs and no way to rotate them. Someone explain that.

https://youtu.be/OcAOhD_zO54?t=10m20s

Yeah, why? It just increase the number of parts and the production cost for no reasons.

I've seen it thrown around, as a possible explanation, that the mold is designed with another set of hands in mind, so the mushroom-pegged hands allow that part to be swapped out without needing to make an entirely-new set of lower arms that are otherwise identical above the wrist (a la some Combiner Wars figures). That idea makes a bit of sense to me, but it is still an odd choice for sure either way.

I think it has more to do with plastic colors and saving on paint for any given redeco, in addition to facilitate swap-outs.

Let me explain: The total tooling for any given toy is broken down into several molds (if we are to go by leaked deco sheets 6 to 8 for a Titans Return Deluxe), and each mold can accommodate a single color of a given plastic type (ABS or PA), clear included. By strategically planning which parts can be combined in color, one could save drastically on paint.

I will say that making PotP Jazz's hood out of clear plastic, just for the sake of the headlights is rather unnecessary...

I would know that if I owned a Perceptor. Darn you Target and HTS for being not helpful, oh and amazon for wanting 44 bucks...

Ages ago, I wrote an unofficial TF encyclopedia. I addressed vestigal features, such as cockpits in the Dinobots, etc as part of their Quintesson past. As TFs originally were made as products to be sold, many of them had cockpits. However, as the species evolved after freedom from the Quints, vestigal features, akin to our own moles, or polyps, etc, would surface, as cockpits, unused wheels, etc. This is also evidenced in BW/BM characters, having wheels for legs, etc.

One toy that has a LOT of vestigial parts is TR Fort Max. I think i would have been VERY confused as a child about how much just goes unused since it's unlikely I'd have owned both Metroplex and Fort Max. From the swinging arm to the hollow legs to the hole in his arm ... there's just so much leftover parts from Metroplex that they didn't even bother remoulding. As an adult it's disappointing, but as a child I would have been so confused.

As far as I know no 3rd party group has even managed to make something of those legs. Reprolabels gave 'em some stickers, but that's about it.

I think the RotF Arcee triplets could also use a mention. Was a verified combination of those three ever released? I seem to recall that they just aborted the idea at some point and the combination just didn't work very well.

And G1 Ironhide is just one, big, vestigial part. The whole toy!

Gauntlet101010 wrote:And G1 Ironhide is just one, big, vestigial part. The whole toy!

Yes I agree. But since its the whole toy, i felt that needed its own list. So I did just that and now I also have a list of top 5 TF toys which were better in their original Diaclone/Microchange line. But since there is one overlap in entries, I will post that one much later inorder to sound less like a broken record.

And about Fort Max, yes those are big time vestigial parts. But what sucks about them is that they arent fun or interesting. Unlike the others here, which give hint to added functionality or dropped gimmicks (and can all still be used for some added fun to an extent), the fort max one is just a sign at how lazy and cheap Hasbro was.

Yeah, I don't think Fort Max really beats out other mentions on the list. The most confusing part about him is how HasTak could be so lazy and cheap for such a high priced item. I just felt like this thread should have him mentioned by someone. Because damn. Just damn, I cannot think of a toy with more vestigial parts than TR Fort Max.

I think there is some aborted functionality for Mega Dinobot that allowed Grimlock and Swoop to combine better is also a thing, but I can't really remember.

Maybe under the note of "confusing design choices" (as opposed to vestigial parts) are the trailer hooks for Classics Prime and Energon Rodimus. They're just there for looks ... which is odd since neither really enhances the toy looks-wise. I seem to recall the hook for Rodimus was a design choice, but it's an odd one. The truck mode has rocket boosters - wouldn't that incinerate the trailer? That's what I couldn't help but think when I saw that hook.

Similarly Classics Prime's connecter port was put to good use by many 3P companies, but I can't help but wonder at the design choice there. It hints at functionality that just couldn't have been intended. But, instead of getting a more realistic sculpted trailer hatch you get this toyetic block for a trailer that was never planned. It's weird.

Edit: Another toy with vestigial parts that was actually disappointing just hit me: World's Smallest Megatron. His toy hinted at being able to accommodate a stock and silencer (and I think I saw prototypes for those somewhere), but those were never released. I'm glad someone else made attachments for that but still.

I really enjoyed this list. While I am probably dating myself , I'd like to offer a correction in regards to Perceptor's tank mode. While not listed on the packaging, there were several U.S marketing media releases that mention Perceptor as having a "tank-mode" equipped with a "Light Cannon." Those same releases also stated that this was a "...choice of last resort as Perceptor eschewed use" of this mode because as a scientist he felt violence was not a solution. I will do some digging to find out if I still have any of the documents to scan in. @ Yotsuyasan I read the same/similar article about Galvatron not originally being intended as part of the CW/TR/PoP line-up, but can't remember where. I also, remember that it mentioned the spring-loaded action was part of an auto-transformation gimmick that would allow a full head, not just a helmet, to "spring" into place. I would much rather have had that version, as I feel the Headmaster gimmick was played out by both Takara and Hasbro . "GIVE ME SOME TARGET MASTER's!!" Okay, I am done with my rant.

You know that thing you said about Hasbro being opposed to any sort of piloting? They certainly were on many occasions (Headmasters, Crossovers, and Human Alliance being rare exceptions) and I think that's why they didn't include Perceptor's tank mode - it was designed as a mode for Microman figures to ride.

As for the Dinobots' cockpits... I don't know. The Dinobots are very obviously robots built in the image of dinosaurs, not robots trying to disguise as dinosaurs, so it's not as jarring to see such a hatch as it would be on something trying to pass itself off as an organic beast. Beyond that, Grimlock's is the only one that really stands out so I don't know how much you can apply this item to the whole group (especially Swoop!). And from a Transformers standpoint the cockpits could be thought of as "Means of carrying human allies", not that that was ever put into action. That's my take on it, at least. *shrug*

Great list WJ. Educational and interesting. Thanks!