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I would definitely add Siege Chromia to the list, if not as an honorable mention. In a sea of gems, she is the only dud in my opinion.

IMO she's the gem and T30 Chromia's the dud.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:IMO she's the gem and T30 Chromia's the dud.

I dunno about that. I don't own either figure, but I assumed since the Prime Arcee mold that T30 was retooled from was great, Chromia would be great too.

Nathaniel Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:IMO she's the gem and T30 Chromia's the dud.

I dunno about that. I don't own either figure, but I assumed since the Prime Arcee mold that T30 was retooled from was great, Chromia would be great too.

I don't own T30 Chromia. or Prime Arcee. But I do own SIEGE Chromia, and I like her very much. I like the sculpt, I like the details, I like her weapons, I like the articulation, I like the altmode better resembling Chromia's car mode instead of being a motorcycle trying to cosplay as it.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Nathaniel Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:IMO she's the gem and T30 Chromia's the dud.

I dunno about that. I don't own either figure, but I assumed since the Prime Arcee mold that T30 was retooled from was great, Chromia would be great too.

I don't own T30 Chromia. or Prime Arcee. But I do own SIEGE Chromia, and I like her very much. I like the sculpt, I like the details, I like her weapons, I like the articulation, I like the altmode better resembling Chromia's car mode instead of being a motorcycle trying to cosplay as it.

Believe me, T30 Chromia is great, and she is why I did not even bother with the Siege one. That Siege one is not impressive at all. They need to get away from that PotP/Siege style mold, it's really subpar.

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Nathaniel Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:IMO she's the gem and T30 Chromia's the dud.

I dunno about that. I don't own either figure, but I assumed since the Prime Arcee mold that T30 was retooled from was great, Chromia would be great too.

I don't own T30 Chromia. or Prime Arcee. But I do own SIEGE Chromia, and I like her very much. I like the sculpt, I like the details, I like her weapons, I like the articulation, I like the altmode better resembling Chromia's car mode instead of being a motorcycle trying to cosplay as it.

Believe me, T30 Chromia is great, and she is why I did not even bother with the Siege one. That Siege one is not impressive at all. They need to get away from that PotP/Siege style mold, it's really subpar.

I actually own it and find it to be quite enjoyable. What's so subpar about it? The only thing I'd trade her for is a mold that more closely duplicated the van mode, but she's plenty for me for now.
I have deliberately passed on T30 Chromia because of the altmode thing and the hope that a better match would come along - and SIEGE delivered. I might get the mold's original Prime Arcee incarnation, but not T30 Chromia.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Nathaniel Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:IMO she's the gem and T30 Chromia's the dud.

I dunno about that. I don't own either figure, but I assumed since the Prime Arcee mold that T30 was retooled from was great, Chromia would be great too.

I don't own T30 Chromia. or Prime Arcee. But I do own SIEGE Chromia, and I like her very much. I like the sculpt, I like the details, I like her weapons, I like the articulation, I like the altmode better resembling Chromia's car mode instead of being a motorcycle trying to cosplay as it.

Believe me, T30 Chromia is great, and she is why I did not even bother with the Siege one. That Siege one is not impressive at all. They need to get away from that PotP/Siege style mold, it's really subpar.

I actually own it and find it to be quite enjoyable. What's so subpar about it? The only thing I'd trade her for is a mold that more closely duplicated the van mode, but she's plenty for me for now.
I have deliberately passed on T30 Chromia because of the altmode thing and the hope that a better match would come along - and SIEGE delivered. I might get the mold's original Prime Arcee incarnation, but not T30 Chromia.

It is lazy, it's bulky where it shouldn't be, it's boxy, it incorporates virtually nothing into it, and it's clunky to move around with. Elita-1 is a great toy, her limbs (and similar non-limb) are the opposite of her. Elita is fun, the Moonracer mold is not.

You know who I would add to this list? The Siege Primes. Both of them. The voyager, because he was hyped up so very much by everyone who got him, that by the time my stores actually started to stock him, I had this amazing figure built up in my head. The toy I took out of box is just super lame.

Galaxy Upgrade because he is one of the rare updates to older toys that falls far short of the original.

Ironhidensh wrote:You know who I would add to this list? The Siege Primes. Both of them. The voyager, because he was hyped up so very much by everyone who got him, that by the time my stores actually started to stock him, I had this amazing figure built up in my head. The toy I took out of box is just super lame.

Galaxy Upgrade because he is one of the rare updates to older toys that falls far short of the original.

I would strongly disagree with both. If anything, Chromia and Starscream are the disappointments of that line so far to me, they just don't seem to be much good compared to the rest.

Also, SS helicopter Dropkick should be here too. Bringing that conversation in from another thread

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

Ironhidensh wrote:You know who I would add to this list? The Siege Primes. Both of them. The voyager, because he was hyped up so very much by everyone who got him, that by the time my stores actually started to stock him, I had this amazing figure built up in my head. The toy I took out of box is just super lame.

Galaxy Upgrade because he is one of the rare updates to older toys that falls far short of the original.

I would strongly disagree with both. If anything, Chromia and Starscream are the disappointments of that line so far to me, they just don't seem to be much good compared to the rest.

I will agree on Chromia, but Starscream is actually one of the figures I really, really like. Go figure, huh?

Also, SS helicopter Dropkick should be here too. Bringing that conversation in from another thread

Oh god, yes. He is so bad I'd actually put him out of my mind!

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Nathaniel Prime wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:IMO she's the gem and T30 Chromia's the dud.

I dunno about that. I don't own either figure, but I assumed since the Prime Arcee mold that T30 was retooled from was great, Chromia would be great too.

I don't own T30 Chromia. or Prime Arcee. But I do own SIEGE Chromia, and I like her very much. I like the sculpt, I like the details, I like her weapons, I like the articulation, I like the altmode better resembling Chromia's car mode instead of being a motorcycle trying to cosplay as it.

Believe me, T30 Chromia is great, and she is why I did not even bother with the Siege one. That Siege one is not impressive at all. They need to get away from that PotP/Siege style mold, it's really subpar.

I actually own it and find it to be quite enjoyable. What's so subpar about it? The only thing I'd trade her for is a mold that more closely duplicated the van mode, but she's plenty for me for now.
I have deliberately passed on T30 Chromia because of the altmode thing and the hope that a better match would come along - and SIEGE delivered. I might get the mold's original Prime Arcee incarnation, but not T30 Chromia.

It is lazy, it's bulky where it shouldn't be, it's boxy, it incorporates virtually nothing into it, and it's clunky to move around with. Elita-1 is a great toy, her limbs (and similar non-limb) are the opposite of her. Elita is fun, the Moonracer mold is not.

1. You seem to have a strange definition of "lazy". I mean, you call SIEGE Chromia lazy and yet don't see Earth Wars' lazy copypasting of the FoC Grimlock sword as such?
2. "Boxy" is not a valid complaint wehen the vehicle mode is SUPPOSED to be boxy: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:TSFAT_Chromia_vehicle.jpg Complaining about it being boxy is like complaining about Optimus Prime being boxy.
3. I'll give you the lack of integration, but that's to be blamed on Floron the Moron Dery giving the female Autobots altmodes that were boxy yet robot modes that were curvy, while pulling his usual "vanishing kibble" BS with said robot modes.
4. How is it clunky to move around with? She's got a great range of motion in her arms and legs.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:It is lazy, it's bulky where it shouldn't be, it's boxy, it incorporates virtually nothing into it, and it's clunky to move around with. Elita-1 is a great toy, her limbs (and similar non-limb) are the opposite of her. Elita is fun, the Moonracer mold is not.

1. You seem to have a strange definition of "lazy". I mean, you call SIEGE Chromia lazy and yet don't see Earth Wars' lazy copypasting of the FoC Grimlock sword as such?
2. "Boxy" is not a valid complaint wehen the vehicle mode is SUPPOSED to be boxy: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:TSFAT_Chromia_vehicle.jpg Complaining about it being boxy is like complaining about Optimus Prime being boxy.
3. I'll give you the lack of integration, but that's to be blamed on Floron the Moron Dery giving the female Autobots altmodes that were boxy yet robot modes that were curvy, while pulling his usual "vanishing kibble" BS with said robot modes.
4. How is it clunky to move around with? She's got a great range of motion in her arms and legs.

1) Giving a weapon from one continuities character to another as a combiner weapon isn't lazy, it is a great homage done right.
2) Sometime though, we should forget what they originally were meant to be and give them a more appropriate alt mode. a Motorcycle worked far better for Chromia than a box van/car
3) 84 cartoon aesthetics, it happens and needs fixed
4) I didn't buy Chromia but i have the limb gals, and they can move a bit, but can't hold it cause they have no balance and a very off center of gravity, I've not really seen chromia correct either of those at all.

EDITED TO AMEND AN OVERLY HEATED AND PETULANT RESPONSE

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

D-Maximal_Primal wrote:It is lazy, it's bulky where it shouldn't be, it's boxy, it incorporates virtually nothing into it, and it's clunky to move around with. Elita-1 is a great toy, her limbs (and similar non-limb) are the opposite of her. Elita is fun, the Moonracer mold is not.

1. You seem to have a strange definition of "lazy". I mean, you call SIEGE Chromia lazy and yet don't see Earth Wars' lazy copypasting of the FoC Grimlock sword as such?
2. "Boxy" is not a valid complaint wehen the vehicle mode is SUPPOSED to be boxy: https://tfwiki.net/wiki/File:TSFAT_Chromia_vehicle.jpg Complaining about it being boxy is like complaining about Optimus Prime being boxy.
3. I'll give you the lack of integration, but that's to be blamed on Floron the Moron Dery giving the female Autobots altmodes that were boxy yet robot modes that were curvy, while pulling his usual "vanishing kibble" BS with said robot modes.
4. How is it clunky to move around with? She's got a great range of motion in her arms and legs.

1) Giving a weapon from one continuities character to another as a combiner weapon isn't lazy, it is a great homage done right.
2) Sometime though, we should forget what they originally were meant to be and give them a more appropriate alt mode. a Motorcycle worked far better for Chromia than a box van/car
3) 84 cartoon aesthetics, it happens and needs fixed
4) I didn't buy Chromia but i have the limb gals, and they can move a bit, but can't hold it cause they have no balance and a very off center of gravity, I've not really seen chromia correct either of those at all.

1a. It feels more like laziness to me than a "great homage" because they used it completely unmodified rather than tweaking the design to add unique flare. Beyond the feeling of laziness... FoC Grimlock's sword is cool and all, but it doesn't match the G1 weapon aesthetic at all or have anything in common with the G1 Dinobots' swords detail-wise. And while cool, it doesn't feel cool enough as-is for the might of the Dinobots combined IMO (Personally, I think if they were going to reference another Grimlock then Animated Grimlock's sword would have been better). I think the ideal for Volcanicus, however, would be a unique sword that matched the individual G1 Dinobots' swords, possibly amalgamating features from them
1b. We kinda got sidetracked by that debate. What makes you say SIEGE Chromia is lazy?
2. ....What kind of logic is that? And on what grounds is a motorcycle "more appropriate"? I think a van is in fact more appropriate because it matches Ironhide nicely.
3. Keeping the 84 cartoon aesthetic makes sense for a toon-based line. What needs to be fixed is the "Female TFs always need teh curves" idea. Maybe if Hasbro was over that, they'd have been willing to give up some curviness to have better integration.
4.

CHUG Galvatron was far more disappointing than TR Galvatron. TR is flawed, yes, but still good overall, whereas CHUG is just a disaster.

Optimum Supreme wrote:CHUG Galvatron was far more disappointing than TR Galvatron. TR is flawed, yes, but still good overall, whereas CHUG is just a disaster.

Universe Galvatron is good in my opinion, but I can feel he was made to be a Voyager class figure. He is a bit fiddly, and pretty darn complex for his size, but he is a good figure.

Out of the two I fount Titans to be much more disappointing. They had a lot of time to refine their craft by then and just look at what they gave us. In the same line that gave us some pretty good TFs! Even Takara couldn't save him. Meanwhile the clear version of CHUG Galvy can be combined with the Platinum Cyclonus / Sweeps set and a Unicron to make a sweet reformatting scene (which is what I did).

As for Chromia ... I hate the PotP female Autobot mould and I wish I didn't have to get it to obtain Elieta's crew. Mainly thanks to that obnoxious backpack. I also don't like that the crew all looks the same, which Seige Chromia doesn't help with. So I haven't replaced her.

I still just don't get people think is so disappointing about Titans Return Galvatron. I get people having an issue with the headmaster gimmick's implementation (although even here I think people are blowing it's faults waaaay out of proportion), but I don't get writing off the figure as a whole. Do the hiccups with e one part somehow torpedo the whole thing for people?
Meanwhile the Universe version seems like a total mess to me - he's undersized, the right arm articulation is apparently gimped, the robot mode is cluttered with kibble from an Earth mode that Galvatron never had, and said Earth mode is made laughable to me by the blatantly unearthly cannon.

Frankly, I think Leobreaker belongs on this list a hell of a lot more than TR Galvatron. Poor toy form Savage Claw Mode... It's okay, but hooooo boy is it awkward and a severe letdown compared to the prototype and what the show would have you expecting.

The head is a huge problem, but hardly the only one. His cannon is not only disproportionally large, but having it where it is neuters his arm articulation in a far worse way than CHUG Galvy. The spaceship mode is also so terrible it's hardly worth remembering.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:The head is a huge problem, but hardly the only one. His cannon is not only disproportionally large, but having it where it is neuters his arm articulation in a far worse way than CHUG Galvy. The spaceship mode is also so terrible it's hardly worth remembering.

Of all the problems I have with Galvatron (hence why he is on the list), the spaceship mode is not one of them. I dont feel it hurts the toy in any way and it gives him a flight mode instead of him driving a spaceship. My main problem is the head since the gimmick makes it not look good and hurts the articulation.
I will reiterate though, this list was never about bad toys, its about toys that dissapointed people because they could have been amazing. This could have been the end all be all Galvatron, one for the ages, it does so much right that its dissapointing for the head part to be such a dud.

william-james88 wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:The head is a huge problem, but hardly the only one. His cannon is not only disproportionally large, but having it where it is neuters his arm articulation in a far worse way than CHUG Galvy. The spaceship mode is also so terrible it's hardly worth remembering.

Of all the problems I have with Galvatron (hence why he is on the list), the spaceship mode is not one of them. I dont feel it hurts the toy in any way and it gives him a flight mode instead of him driving a spaceship. My main problem is the head since the gimmick makes it not look good and hurts the articulation.
I will reiterate though, this list was never about bad toys, its about toys that dissapointed people because they could have been amazing. This could have been the end all be all Galvatron, one for the ages, it does so much right that its dissapointing for the head part to be such a dud.

I think he still is one for the ages, and don't personally find the head issues to be anywhere near as bad as you make them out to be in the list.

Was Leobreaker even brought up when this list was being written? I have to know.

Gauntlet, how so? Universe Galvy apparently can't move his shoulder outward much, while TR Galvatron has no such issue. The paldrons lift to give rotational clearance, too. It does admittedly restrict the elbow articulation if the cannon is arm mounted, but that doesn't bother me as much as the impaired shoulder would, so... As for the cannon's size, it's a tradeoff - It's rather big for the robot mode, for the sake of not looking shrimpy on the self-propelled gun mode. And it's nowhere near as bad as G1 Megatron or MP-05 Megatron

The shoulder articulation doesn't bother me on the one arm as much as hindered elbows do for Titans Galvy. And, yeah, that's what I mean by the arm articulation being destroyed. I mean at least the cannon doesn't get in the way of CHUG Galvy; it's a hindrance for Titans Galvy. And if it's that big for the spaceship mode, then it's even worse since that mode is best left forgotten.

As a big Galvatron fan I was happy to get a new Galvatron with CHUG despite it's flaws, but was very disappointed with Titans Galvatron. By the time it came around I felt they could have done better. Just as a display piece I find it wanting. The head, the cannon .... what can I say? I found it way more disappointing overall, even if CHUG Galvy had a lot of problems.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:And if it's that big for the spaceship mode, then it's even worse since that mode is best left forgotten

Kindly read my post again, please. I said for the self-propelled gun mode.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:And if it's that big for the spaceship mode, then it's even worse since that mode is best left forgotten

Kindly read my post again, please. I said for the self-propelled gun mode.

Okay, so not calling it a cannon mode? 

I don't think it needed to be that big, nor do I think it needed to be mounted that way on his arm. It just didn't need to be a problem.

What do you want? I found it way more disappointing than CHUG Galvy. Overall I think it looks bad. The only reason I'd replace CHUG Galvy with it is size.

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Was Leobreaker even brought up when this list was being written? I have to know.

He wasn't. It was basically figures post 2007 because thats when adults rediscovered transformers and brought their complaints and expectations. Before that the only uproar for things totally ruinned was Trukk not Munky.

Gauntlet101010 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:

Gauntlet101010 wrote:And if it's that big for the spaceship mode, then it's even worse since that mode is best left forgotten

Kindly read my post again, please. I said for the self-propelled gun mode.

Okay, so not calling it a cannon mode? 

I don't think it needed to be that big, nor do I think it needed to be mounted that way. It just didn't need to be a problem.

What do you want? I found it way more disappointing than CHUG Galvy. Overall I think it looks bad. The only reason I'd replace CHUG Galvy with it is size.

What do I want? I guess to defend a figure that I really enjoy and which for me was a "HOLY CRAP SHUT UP AND TAKE MY MONEY!" toy
First, a bit of a semantics issue that's been bugging me: Titans Return is part of Generations, so they're actually both CHUG Galvatrons.
Second, what's your problem with me calling it a self-propelled gun? That's what it is, that's why it has those treads. And calling it that helps me distinguish between his altmode and his weapon.
Third... I personally found Universe Galvatron to be an enormous letdown. I was excited to hear there was a modern Galvatron toy, disappointed to find out it was an undersize, ugly (IMO), awkward mess with the wrong altmode. To me, Titans Return Galvatron is a dream come true - decently articulated, the right size, actually looks like G1 Galvatron without the Earth mode baggage, and turns into the proper altmode, and even has what I consider to be a cool, clever replacement for Galvatron's original third mode.
Fourth, the cannon kinda did have to mount like that in altmode, on account of Galvatron having a separate head rather than a static one wrapped around a lightbulb And I do think it had to be that big; if it was smaller, like it is in some robot mode shots from the cartoon, it would look comically dinky relative to the gun body IMO.

william-james88 wrote:

ZeldaTheSwordsman wrote:Was Leobreaker even brought up when this list was being written? I have to know.

He wasn't. It was basically figures post 2007 because thats when adults rediscovered transformers and brought their complaints and expectations. Before that the only uproar for things totally ruinned was Trukk not Munky.

Ah. Honestly, I think that's an overly narrow scope. Narrow enough to require a big fat asterisk in the title.