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The logic of this just doesn’t work and it’s disturbing. ...and it seems only to exist to virtue-signal. In the comics and on this post. ...Please go back to the regular 5 lists where you actually talk about transforming toys.

I just started reading Lost Light (skipped the ladder half of Revolution since it clotheslined me for MONTHS with how bad it is, had to re-read last stand just to get the motivation back) so to me, this is a topical list. Just reached the point where the trans allegory is used.

I only skimmed the list itself, dont want spoilers.

But I can come at this from both sides of the argument.

Anthropomorphising things is something humans do to better relate to them. Transformers are no different. We humanize them to be more like us. As someone mentioned: Mouth, eyes, nose, teeth. Hands, fingers. Two arms, two legs. Humanoid, is the term. HUMANoid.

There are exceptions of course, but those exceptions are meant to look weird and outlandish.

Skylynx as an example. And even then, we see a dragon, or a gryphon. Something WE know exists in OUR OWN mythology. Something fashioned after something WE are familiar with.

Im not gonna pretend I understand the inner workings of someone who's trans. I dont. But if you want to make identification with gender an allegory for trans individuals, using giant, traditionally genderless robots? I dont really see a problem? Like. We humanize them, and trans people exist. Theyre HUMAN. Much as its human to have a relationship. Same sex, or no.

Cybertronians are relatable because theyre struggling. Theyre at war. They've known nothing but loss, violence and isolation.

If you lived like that for millennia im sure youd cherish the thought of a deeper connection more than you'd realize, and a lot of your perspectives would change with the experiences you've gained. Its not exactly unrealistic.


On the flip side, however, the allegory is just rammed in there. It could have been handled with a bit more tact. Explored as part of it's own subplot rather than a casual mention. This itself is it's own writing trap though, since it could make the plot further deviate from itself, so said subplot would aslo need to have meaning in the overall plot as well. As it is, it comes in, is said, and then moved past without much more meaning behind it than that. So it can feel like tonal whiplash.

Like a lot of these relationships are. They come out of nowhere, it feels. Tailgate and Cyclonus, and Rewind and Chromedome are the big exceptions for me. I was thoroughly invested in them.

Cant say the same for Arcee and Aeleron. I havnt reached a point where that developes. But if it happens in the crossover stuff? I likely wont. Because thats HARD to read.

Knockout and Breakdown simply exist. They werent a couple in Prime, unless some extended media I havmt read states otherwise. Its strictly the idw comics. Theyre simply there for representation, and while I dont MIND it, it is what it is. From what I've read so far, it isn't something thats exactly explored, is it? It adds nothing to the plot itself, unlike the others. It's simply a fact. The relationship is there as merely texture.

Also Drift and Ratchet? Really? That just feels....weird to me. Dunno why. Maybe its cuz I always expected there was something going on between him and Rodimus? I might just be blind

Lastly, I recognize the frustration. Not in the relationships themselves, but the fact that people come to read a war story. An adventure story. Scifi.

Not to get wrapped up in relationship drama, reading panel after panel of angst between cyclonus and whirl about will theys and wont theys, and what Tailgate means to him. On that level? Your mileage will simply vary. But I do get it. I admit to rolling my eyes when the plot takes a detour just to get into relationship shenanigans. It happens. But imo it never gets THAT bad. I'm still readin aint I

Tigerhawk7109 wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:I've always considered Cybertronian relationships as simply being different levels of friends and them ranging no deeper than a brotherhood or sisterhood. And that's how it will stay... It's not like they ever showed Optimus and Elita share a bedroom so why is shoving same sex couples down our throats so important?

It feels like Hollywood and Hasbro is at gunpoint while adhering to Pride month.

Besides having "TRANS" in the name itself should be enough to pacify LGBTQ from a scientifical level. And that's if they really even cared about Gay Robots in the first place.

In all honesty, dude, this feels like an extremely homophobic comment. The whole point of these couples is that they're not shoved down our throats: they're extremely well-developed and realistic. As someone with many friends in the LGBTQ+ community, I can't help but take offense to this. Take a minute, reconsider this sh*tty statement, and then come back.

Oh you think you're the only one in here with LBGTQ ties... How the hell does me recommending they just use the "T" instead of the "LGB" to properly advance G1 lore make me homophobic???? Just shut up!

My main point was that G1 wasn't even originally Hetero based either (it doesn't need it), which you choose to conveniently ignore in order to run with these BS cry wolf homophobic accusations. Having my own opinion on the topic doesn't make me the Devil. But you trying to silence me with conjecture sure makes you one!

People in these comments mad that TF characters aren’t cold, heartless, and ugly. I’m sorry but aren’t these the exact complaints that we have about Bayverse? We bitched and bitched how those films didn’t bring characterization to the characters we love, that we love BECAUSE of the HUMAN way they acted in the 80s cartoon we can’t get over.

“They’re alien robots!!” Yeah, LIVING beings. They have personalities. They’re fighting a civil war for gods sake, and you want the whole thing to be a emotionless-slaughter fest with none of the characters actually caring and feeling for each other.

So BOO HOO that some of these characters are gay, who are HUMAN-LIKE, so uh, you know, people can relate to and like this franchise. If you’re seriously one of those people who thinks THAT is the problem with modern day stuff, I’d beg you to go interact with some real people and shake off that internet mindset brainrot. Gay characters, creators, and people are here to stay and are NOT POLITICAL, our existence is not politics, it’s YOU who makes it so with your hardwired bigotry.

Maybe they can just install/remove the 'male oil' like they do in Futurama?



"This is only confusing the already baffling line between the robot sexes!" - P. Farnsworth

william-james88 wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:It feels like Hollywood and Hasbro is at gunpoint while adhering to Pride month.

How is Hasbro adhering to Pride Month when these stories are from several years ago? The characters were in their relationships every month, not just in June.

You can’t reason with people like this, who think gay people not being afraid to live and love is some kind of major threat to their own existence. Also I doubt Hasbro mandated those relationships themselves, that was all the IDW writing teams

Didn't know this was a thing hahaha me 1 shity media 0

I can see them adapting by copying the species they are surrounded by to some degree but they wouldn't really need to being a species of their own that's removed from our society on a lot of levels. The quints obviously made some as sex bots so who knows.
Just not something that needs associating with the cybertronians to me but it's fine for other things (within limits either way, maybe netflix She-ra succeeded in bringing homosexuality to the galaxy, at least there is a pill that can cure it in the world of enders game series hahaha).
And at the very least cybertronians don't go to hell hahaha (Well until IDW scrapes the bottom of even more barrels).
Kinda sucks they implied it for prime Knockout but nice to see they created up some specific characters for the relationships.

YoungPrime wrote:I've always considered Cybertronian relationships as simply being different levels of friends and them ranging no deeper than a brotherhood or sisterhood. And that's how it will stay... It's not like they ever showed Optimus and Elita share a bedroom so why is shoving same sex couples down our throats so important?

It feels like Hollywood and Hasbro is at gunpoint while adhering to Pride month.

Besides having "TRANS" in the name itself should be enough to pacify LGBTQ from a scientifical level. And that's if they really even cared about Gay Robots in the first place.

My dude, there are tons of trans transfans. Take a look over at twitter. You make a product with wide appeal and a wide array of people will generally enjoy it. And as Chris McFeely put it in last year's "The Basics" video on romance, if these thinking feeling robots can feel enough hate for each other to wage war for millions of years, there's no reason they can't also feel love and affection as well.

Let me make one thing clear: I will not shut up on the issue of gay rights. The entire f*cling purpose of this list was to celebrate Pride through some of the most well-developed fictional couples of all time. If you have a problem with that, you have no place showing your face in this thread. Get out, and let the people who actually care discuss.

jtanimator wrote:Not in the mood to get all pumped in frustration about this topic right now, so suffice it to say I agree with all [of Nemesis Prime's criticism]. I'm glad some people in this forum are willing to be honest with this stuff because it's pretty frustrating to deal with.

I don't know why you think those who oppose this representation are any more "honest" than everyone who appreciates these characters or doesn't offer an opinion. Those who are most genuine are the enthusiasts.

"Frustrating to deal with?" You don't have to read these comics or participate in these discussions, what's there to be frustrated about?

Great list TigerHawk7109!

To whoever said about Primus being a deity instead of a giant robot and that being bad, Primus has only ever existed as a deity as far as Lore is concerned (G1 IDW being the outlier here). While Cybertron would have transformed in one draft of the movie, that version was never made leaving the Marvel G1 comics to introduce him as...a god, retconing the entirely disappointment that was Unicron's origins in Season 3. Years later, Primus as the Transformers god would be picked up again and animated in Transformers Cybertron (think he may have been mentioned in Energon though...)

Anyway, I think its great that characters like this exist.

ZeroWolf wrote:Great list TigerHawk7109!

To whoever said about Primus being a deity instead of a giant robot and that being bad, Primus has only ever existed as a deity as far as Lore is concerned (G1 IDW being the outlier here). While Cybertron would have transformed in one draft of the movie, that version was never made leaving the Marvel G1 comics to introduce him as...a god, retconing the entirely disappointment that was Unicron's origins in Season 3. Years later, Primus as the Transformers god would be picked up again and animated in Transformers Cybertron (think he may have been mentioned in Energon though...)

Anyway, I think its great that characters like this exist.

Exactly! And Transformers has been analogous to the human experience from the beginning, anyway! The original pitch-- a war over energy resources-- draws from the oil shortages of the 70s and growing public concern of dwindling oil supplies.

Just to clarify, Gobots aren't actually robots, but rather cybernetic organisms. They originally started out as humanoid aliens, and, over time became what we see today. They still have organic brains, if I recall.

primalxconvoy wrote:Just to clarify, Gobots aren't actually robots, but rather cybernetic organisms. They originally started out as humanoid aliens, and, over time became what we see today. They still have organic brains, if I recall.

And central nervous systems [and eyes] if the... X-ray[?] of them stands true from one of the episodes.

That was terrifying to see as a kid

I never saw that episode, and I'm glad that I didn't.

Anyway, has the issue of identity been approached (in the comics) via alt-modes? Just as people identify with certain ethnicities, genders, etc, there might be some TFs who identify with, and stay mainly in, their "alt" mode. The nearest I've seen to that was in Beast Wars/Machines, but that was mainly out of necessity, though.

Nemesis Reformatted wrote:Nope! I'm not going there. I have a huge problem with everybody trying to humanize the Cybertronians.

Starting with the G1 cartoon, I absolutely hate how they changed the cool robot faces of the toy line to human faces in the cartoon.

Then they tried to copy Star Wars by making some kind of weird, awkward love triangle between Arcee, Springer & Hot Rod. Just like Leia, Luke & Han.

Then they tried to change Unicron & Primus into God & Satan instead of simply being huge robots.

And I definitely reject the whole idea of dating, relationships, sex & marriage among these *ROBOTS*. Am I the only one who remembers that these characters are *NOT HUMAN* & *NOT FROM EARTH*?

The whole appeal of Transformers & Gobots is the fact that they are *NOT HUMAN*. If I wanted humans I would collect Star Wars or GI Joe. I'm a fan of Transformers because they are *NOT HUMAN*. Robots are cool, humans are lame.

I don't see the logic behind trying to make them perfectly copy everything about our human society on Earth. They are aliens from another planet. Machines not humans.

They're less like traditional robots with limited AI, and more like metallic super lifeforms (taking a a bit of the Japanese title there), always have been, planned from the start by Hasbro. Hell, the original Diaclone version of Ironhide and Ratchet were nothing more than seats with arms and legs... then Hasbro put a face sticker on them.

Part of making good fiction is making characters relatable, and if the bulk of the main cast is robotic, humanisation is inevitable. Which is fine, it allows for emotional attachment to the characters (which translates to bigger sales, but that's beside the point). Relationships are part of that, and with growing acceptance of aspects that were formerly taboo (and still are with some groups) you will see them more and more, like it or not.

Transformers isn't the only one to do the humanising robots thing, mind you. Go look at the Mega Man series of video games, especially Mega Man X4. What else...

This whole thing is F**** STUPID! Nevermind same-sex couples, the whole idea of Transformers couples is F**** STUPID! The only reason humans have couples is for sex & having children. That doesn't apply to robots. Stop trying to make Cybertron society perfectly copy Earth society. It's totally F**** STUPID!

Who said they were uhm... . You can have loving relationships without that you know? Platonic relationships?

primalxconvoy wrote:I never saw that episode, and I'm glad that I didn't.

Anyway, has the issue of identity been approached (in the comics) via alt-modes? Just as people identify with certain ethnicities, genders, etc, there might be some TFs who identify with, and stay mainly in, their "alt" mode. The nearest I've seen to that was in Beast Wars/Machines, but that was mainly out of necessity, though.

Not really, but there was a story arch somewhere in the 2005 IDW comics concerning alt-modes deciding your role in society. The Earthern counterpart, I dare not mention...

primalxconvoy wrote:I never saw that episode, and I'm glad that I didn't.

Anyway, has the issue of identity been approached (in the comics) via alt-modes? Just as people identify with certain ethnicities, genders, etc, there might be some TFs who identify with, and stay mainly in, their "alt" mode. The nearest I've seen to that was in Beast Wars/Machines, but that was mainly out of necessity, though.

I don't think so, but we got something sorta close in Shadowplay? With the whole "pay to try somebody else's alt-mode" thing. Y'know, temporarily discarding an identity forced on you by an oppressive system to feel like the kind of person you want to be? At great personal risk and expense, no less. That may parallel experiences of older queer folk who lived through the time when queerness was far less accepted.

IHaveQuestions wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:I never saw that episode, and I'm glad that I didn't.

Anyway, has the issue of identity been approached (in the comics) via alt-modes? Just as people identify with certain ethnicities, genders, etc, there might be some TFs who identify with, and stay mainly in, their "alt" mode. The nearest I've seen to that was in Beast Wars/Machines, but that was mainly out of necessity, though.

I don't think so, but we got something sorta close in Shadowplay? With the whole "pay to try somebody else's alt-mode" thing. Y'know, temporarily discarding an identity forced on you by an oppressive system to feel like the kind of person you want to be? At great personal risk and expense, no less. That may parallel experiences of older queer folk who lived through the time when queerness was far less accepted.

The idea of identity through alt modes has been approached a TON, that was the whole point of the functionalist universe.
And we saw it in G1 too, that was the basis for what made you an autobot vs a decepticon.

IHaveQuestions wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:I've always considered Cybertronian relationships as simply being different levels of friends and them ranging no deeper than a brotherhood or sisterhood. And that's how it will stay... It's not like they ever showed Optimus and Elita share a bedroom so why is shoving same sex couples down our throats so important?

It feels like Hollywood and Hasbro is at gunpoint while adhering to Pride month.

Besides having "TRANS" in the name itself should be enough to pacify LGBTQ from a scientifical level. And that's if they really even cared about Gay Robots in the first place.

My dude, there are tons of trans transfans. Take a look over at twitter. You make a product with wide appeal and a wide array of people will generally enjoy it. And as Chris McFeely put it in last year's "The Basics" video on romance, if these thinking feeling robots can feel enough hate for each other to wage war for millions of years, there's no reason they can't also feel love and affection as well.

Brotherhood and Sisterhood is a form of love.

This isn't the show POSE, but some of you are acting like those couples are the topic.

Meh, either way IDW's numbers haven't recovered since. So I guess all former IDW supporters are homophobic. The end.

Please go back to Top 5s about Transforming toys. Gay Robots is pretend, yo.

YoungPrime wrote:

IHaveQuestions wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:I've always considered Cybertronian relationships as simply being different levels of friends and them ranging no deeper than a brotherhood or sisterhood. And that's how it will stay... It's not like they ever showed Optimus and Elita share a bedroom so why is shoving same sex couples down our throats so important?

It feels like Hollywood and Hasbro is at gunpoint while adhering to Pride month.

Besides having "TRANS" in the name itself should be enough to pacify LGBTQ from a scientifical level. And that's if they really even cared about Gay Robots in the first place.

My dude, there are tons of trans transfans. Take a look over at twitter. You make a product with wide appeal and a wide array of people will generally enjoy it. And as Chris McFeely put it in last year's "The Basics" video on romance, if these thinking feeling robots can feel enough hate for each other to wage war for millions of years, there's no reason they can't also feel love and affection as well.

Brotherhood and Sisterhood is a form of love.

This isn't the show POSE, but some of you are acting like those couples are the topic.

Meh, either way IDW's numbers haven't recovered since. So I guess all former IDW supporters are homophobic. The end.

You know what? I’m done dealing with your bullshit. Get off this thread.

(Apologies for swearing, but I needed it.)

william-james88 wrote:

IHaveQuestions wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:I never saw that episode, and I'm glad that I didn't.

Anyway, has the issue of identity been approached (in the comics) via alt-modes? Just as people identify with certain ethnicities, genders, etc, there might be some TFs who identify with, and stay mainly in, their "alt" mode. The nearest I've seen to that was in Beast Wars/Machines, but that was mainly out of necessity, though.

I don't think so, but we got something sorta close in Shadowplay? With the whole "pay to try somebody else's alt-mode" thing. Y'know, temporarily discarding an identity forced on you by an oppressive system to feel like the kind of person you want to be? At great personal risk and expense, no less. That may parallel experiences of older queer folk who lived through the time when queerness was far less accepted.

The idea of identity through alt modes has been approached a TON, that was the whole point of the functionalist universe.
And we saw it in G1 too, that was the basis for what made you an autobot vs a decepticon.

That IS true. However, things did get kinda muddled later on as we got more autobots with explicitly war-geared alt-modes.

Also can we talk about Raoul and Tracks again? O want to talk about Raoul and Tracks again.

Good god people, this isnt Twitter. Calm the hell down

IHaveQuestions wrote:

Also can we talk about Raoul and Tracks again?

otp

william-james88 wrote:

IHaveQuestions wrote:

primalxconvoy wrote:I never saw that episode, and I'm glad that I didn't.

Anyway, has the issue of identity been approached (in the comics) via alt-modes? Just as people identify with certain ethnicities, genders, etc, there might be some TFs who identify with, and stay mainly in, their "alt" mode. The nearest I've seen to that was in Beast Wars/Machines, but that was mainly out of necessity, though.

I don't think so, but we got something sorta close in Shadowplay? With the whole "pay to try somebody else's alt-mode" thing. Y'know, temporarily discarding an identity forced on you by an oppressive system to feel like the kind of person you want to be? At great personal risk and expense, no less. That may parallel experiences of older queer folk who lived through the time when queerness was far less accepted.

The idea of identity through alt modes has been approached a TON, that was the whole point of the functionalist universe.
And we saw it in G1 too, that was the basis for what made you an autobot vs a decepticon.

Yes, that's true, but I was referring to TFs that identified, and thus chose to stay in their "alt" modes, rather than their primary modes. Some might even undergo surgery to remain only in their "alt" mode, for example. This could also link to the issues of "disability", "otherness", "special needs", etc (although, to clarify, I'm not suggesting any Trans or homosexual people are "disabled", but rather their, and other "different" people's challenges of living in a majority culture, etc). For example, TFs that could only, or chose to only remain in car mode, and who wished buildings to be changed to meet their needs.

I'm not sure if a whole story needs to be devoted to this, but it would be interesting for me. Throw in Chip Chase and the BW Mutants, and we've got some interesting things to explore.

Tigerhawk7109 wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:

IHaveQuestions wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:I've always considered Cybertronian relationships as simply being different levels of friends and them ranging no deeper than a brotherhood or sisterhood. And that's how it will stay... It's not like they ever showed Optimus and Elita share a bedroom so why is shoving same sex couples down our throats so important?

It feels like Hollywood and Hasbro is at gunpoint while adhering to Pride month.

Besides having "TRANS" in the name itself should be enough to pacify LGBTQ from a scientifical level. And that's if they really even cared about Gay Robots in the first place.

My dude, there are tons of trans transfans. Take a look over at twitter. You make a product with wide appeal and a wide array of people will generally enjoy it. And as Chris McFeely put it in last year's "The Basics" video on romance, if these thinking feeling robots can feel enough hate for each other to wage war for millions of years, there's no reason they can't also feel love and affection as well.

Brotherhood and Sisterhood is a form of love.

This isn't the show POSE, but some of you are acting like those couples are the topic.

Meh, either way IDW's numbers haven't recovered since. So I guess all former IDW supporters are homophobic. The end.

You know what? I’m done dealing with your bullshit. Get off this thread.

(Apologies for swearing, but I needed it.)

Wow... How do these trolls get away with this type of entitlement, false accusations and blatant rudeness...?

Brotherly and Sisterly love is not BS. I shouldn't even have to explain this. But I guess some people need negative attention more than no attention at all.