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YoungPrime wrote:

Tigerhawk7109 wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:

IHaveQuestions wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:I've always considered Cybertronian relationships as simply being different levels of friends and them ranging no deeper than a brotherhood or sisterhood. And that's how it will stay... It's not like they ever showed Optimus and Elita share a bedroom so why is shoving same sex couples down our throats so important?

It feels like Hollywood and Hasbro is at gunpoint while adhering to Pride month.

Besides having "TRANS" in the name itself should be enough to pacify LGBTQ from a scientifical level. And that's if they really even cared about Gay Robots in the first place.

My dude, there are tons of trans transfans. Take a look over at twitter. You make a product with wide appeal and a wide array of people will generally enjoy it. And as Chris McFeely put it in last year's "The Basics" video on romance, if these thinking feeling robots can feel enough hate for each other to wage war for millions of years, there's no reason they can't also feel love and affection as well.

Brotherhood and Sisterhood is a form of love.

This isn't the show POSE, but some of you are acting like those couples are the topic.

Meh, either way IDW's numbers haven't recovered since. So I guess all former IDW supporters are homophobic. The end.

You know what? I’m done dealing with your bullshit. Get off this thread.

(Apologies for swearing, but I needed it.)

Wow... How do these trolls get away with this type of entitlement, false accusations and blatant rudeness...?

Brotherly and Sisterly love is not BS. I shouldn't even have to explain this. But I guess some people need negative attention more than no attention at all.

Where's Burn? Do I need to invoke him to come here by enacting some of my time-honoured shenanigans?

YoungPrime wrote:

Tigerhawk7109 wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:

IHaveQuestions wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:I've always considered Cybertronian relationships as simply being different levels of friends and them ranging no deeper than a brotherhood or sisterhood. And that's how it will stay... It's not like they ever showed Optimus and Elita share a bedroom so why is shoving same sex couples down our throats so important?

It feels like Hollywood and Hasbro is at gunpoint while adhering to Pride month.

Besides having "TRANS" in the name itself should be enough to pacify LGBTQ from a scientifical level. And that's if they really even cared about Gay Robots in the first place.

My dude, there are tons of trans transfans. Take a look over at twitter. You make a product with wide appeal and a wide array of people will generally enjoy it. And as Chris McFeely put it in last year's "The Basics" video on romance, if these thinking feeling robots can feel enough hate for each other to wage war for millions of years, there's no reason they can't also feel love and affection as well.

Brotherhood and Sisterhood is a form of love.

This isn't the show POSE, but some of you are acting like those couples are the topic.

Meh, either way IDW's numbers haven't recovered since. So I guess all former IDW supporters are homophobic. The end.

You know what? I’m done dealing with your bullshit. Get off this thread.

(Apologies for swearing, but I needed it.)

Wow... How do these trolls get away with this type of entitlement, false accusations and blatant rudeness...?

Brotherly and Sisterly love is not BS. I shouldn't even have to explain this. But I guess some people need negative attention more than no attention at all.

I don’t have a problem with brotherly and sisterly love- I have a problem with you insulting every other form of love that Cybertronians can express.

Also, calling me a troll, when I’m just trying to help moderate my list that you are constantly degrading? Look in a f*cking mirror.

Let's all take a step back and calm down. No one is changing any minds by shouting at each other. All that's going to do is entrench positions.

Young Prime, you're right, there's nothing wrong with 'family love' but why should a fictional species stick with that? Do you say the same with every other alien species in other media? It may not be what you want to see, but you can only speak for yourself, the same for all of us fans.

ZeroWolf wrote:Let's all take a step back and calm down. No one is changing any minds by shouting at each other. All that's going to do is entrench positions.

Young Prime, you're right, there's nothing wrong with 'family love' but why should a fictional species stick with that? Do you say the same with every other alien species in other media? It may not be what you want to see, but you can only speak for yourself, the same for all of us fans.

All of this.

Also, none of the TFs have an actual "sex" ("physical gender", for want of a better term), so their "gender" is really just ambiguous at this point. Arguably, none of the TFs are "heterosexual", "homosexual", etc, but the writing suggests that the couplings we've seen in the comics is similar/parallel to sexuality and gender issues in our world. As written before, this is nothing new, as it's been addressed in numerous science fiction franchises, including Startrek, Doctor Who, etc.

If you like that crap, go watch hentai and leave transformers alone

BERSEKAEL wrote:If you like that crap, go watch hentai and leave transformers alone

There is nothing inherently pornographic about romantic couples with the same gender identity, robots or otherwise. This comment is way off the mark.

...man...some of you guy are wild about what you want or don't want in your hobby.

It's hilarious that anyone would try to make the claim that these "robots" shouldn't have romantic feelings or relationships. I don't understand how someone could fundamentally not understand a thing they claim to love. It seems to come from a place of believing the Transformers are non-sentient, non-living automatons....which hasn't existed in any form of Transformers except pre-history Diaclone days?

They have personalities, they have wants and desires....of course they are going to form emotional bonds. We know this from EVERY continuity. We know they have romantic emotional bonds from every continuity.

PushYouDown wrote:...man...some of you guy are wild about what you want or don't want in your hobby.

It's hilarious that anyone would try to make the claim that these "robots" shouldn't have romantic feelings or relationships. I don't understand how someone could fundamentally not understand a thing they claim to love. It seems to come from a place of believing the Transformers are non-sentient, non-living automatons....which hasn't existed in any form of Transformers except pre-history Diaclone days?

They have personalities, they have wants and desires....of course they are going to form emotional bonds. We know this from EVERY continuity. We know they have romantic emotional bonds from every continuity.

Or in other words:
"Freedim is the right of all sentient beings"- Some guy who himself is sentient and fights for freedom.

*gingerly steps over all the bad faith arguments about how humanized robots shouldn't love each other*

Big Knock Out/Breakdown and Chromedome/Rewind fan here! I personally feel on the fence about Ratchet/Drift and Cyclonus/Tailgate.

I feel like just how vitriolic and antagonistic Ratchet was towards Drift's beliefs just wasn't really dealt with? He just kinda accepted it, and we barely spent any time showing the two interacting before the final issue after they returned from the miniseries. It just feels unearned to me (but so does most of the last chunk of MTMTE/LL but that's another story).

Cyclonus/Tailgate also just feels...weird to me. Cyclonus is literally one of the oldest characters on the LL, Tailgate is mentally the youngest (I know they're robots but it still rubs me the wrong way, especially since their holomatter avatars remind me of that fact). Cyclonus also just...was rarely kind to Tailgate in a way I feel justifies romance. Cyclonus is flawed sure, but I dunno, I personally liked them as friends than a couple.

I'm definitely in the Arcee/Greenlight camp here. While we haven't spent quite as much time with them, they're a current couple as opposed to previous continuity, and they're one of the only couples that really feels like a team, living in the world as a couple and making a family with Gauge.

I think the Ratchet/Drift relationship was supposed to play to the "they fight about everything!" trope. Things that might drive the other crazy about the other...they just eventually accept.

While Cyclonus/Tailgate is playing to the "gruff/gentle" trope.

PushYouDown wrote:I think the Ratchet/Drift relationship was supposed to play to the "they fight about everything!" trope. Things that might drive the other crazy about the other...they just eventually accept.

While Cyclonus/Tailgate is playing to the "gruff/gentle" trope.

I see that, I guess neither just really felt, fully formed to me? I feel like Anode/Lug and Chromedome/Rewind felt like fully realized couples in a way the Ratchet/Drift and Cyclonus/Tailgate just don't to me. But that might just be me.

I definitely agree with Drift/Ratchet....I know I didn't read everything that covered their interactions...so the reveal of them being a couple in the finale flash-forward made me go "Huh.....okay." I had assumed it was meant to be like a "they had a whole lifetime of adventures that we didn't see" ending.

PushYouDown wrote:I definitely agree with Drift/Ratchet....I know I didn't read everything that covered their interactions...so the reveal of them being a couple in the finale flash-forward made me go "Huh.....okay." I had assumed it was meant to be like a "they had a whole lifetime of adventures that we didn't see" ending.

We do see them at least kind of being a couple before the timeskip, but I do see where you're coming from. Honestly, it's less that I think they don't work as a couple, and more that I personally just don't think they earned a spot on the top five, but I can go and make my own list.

Wow, this is quite the hot button issue I only noticed earlier this afternoon. Glancing over the last few pages, there appear to be some creative misconceptions being touted and a few people that clearly looked vehemently down upon the previous IDWverse characterisation.

Personally, as well as not being a fan of any Post-Furman IDWverse, aside from LSoTW. My own stance is quite well known on these issues. I like the 'alien' of Transformers. They are alien robots after all. They are not us. They have (continuity dependant) several million years on us. To that end, they are far advanced and removed from our mindset. Beyond imagination, if you will.

I don't think it is necessary to humanise Transformers, into couples of any kind. Whenever I've written or drawn them, using Beast Wars for example, I remove the couples completely. I neither find validation through them or relate to alien robots.

Now as for the misconceptions I wanted to discuss:

Jelze Bunnycat wrote:Part of making good fiction is making characters relatable, and if the bulk of the main cast is robotic, humanisation is inevitable.

Which in turn implies relatability=humanisation, which is not the case. It can be, but they are not mutually exclusive terms. As a fan of villains, the best ones in my opinion are rarely ever humanised. Be that Galvatron ala The Movie or Rampage in Beast Wars. Or non-TF outliers, such as Judge Death from 2000AD/Judge Dredd.

What makes a character relatable is down to the ability of the writer. A good writer can make anything, no matter how alien, relatable without misrepresenting that origin. Writer's that aren't as creative or imaginative, will lean more into humanisation as a substitute to the unfamiliar.

PushYouDown wrote:...man...some of you guy are wild about what you want or don't want in your hobby.

It's hilarious that anyone would try to make the claim that these "robots" shouldn't have romantic feelings or relationships. I don't understand how someone could fundamentally not understand a thing they claim to love. It seems to come from a place of believing the Transformers are non-sentient, non-living automatons
They have personalities, they have wants and desires....of course they are going to form emotional bonds. We know this from EVERY continuity. We know they have romantic emotional bonds from every continuity.

This would suggest that in lieu of relations/sexualising Transformers, that they would be bereft of personality altogether? Remove IDWverse from the equation. Now pick a random popular character and reflect on how that is usually the inverse within Transformers as a whole.

ZeroWolf wrote:Let's all take a step back and calm down. No one is changing any minds by shouting at each other. All that's going to do is entrench positions.

Young Prime, you're right, there's nothing wrong with 'family love' but why should a fictional species stick with that? Do you say the same with every other alien species in other media? It may not be what you want to see, but you can only speak for yourself, the same for all of us fans.

You're making this particular source material sound like Conjunx Endurae started back in 1984 with Sunbow or Marvel Comics and that I'm trying to argue against something from like 37 year ago...

The term wasn't brought up until 2016 and ended in 2018 (as far as MTMTE and Lost Light books go anyway). And no other TF project has brought it up since. So if you wish to retcon Ratchet and Drift being couple's back in 1984 then you and the thread starter will have a harder time lobbying for it them me and millions of other G1 fans will in disregarding it.

To clarify... IDW canon from 2016-2018 is all yours to enjoy when it comes to "Spark Mates". But there's so many other TF cartoons and comicbook lines made before, during and after that all TF fans DON'T have to adhere to this phase if they don't want to.

So if TF writers for future TF projects happen to see my initial post here. I hope they understand it better than some of the people in here did. I just think my opinions for this particular alien race makes better $olution$.

YoungPrime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Let's all take a step back and calm down. No one is changing any minds by shouting at each other. All that's going to do is entrench positions.

Young Prime, you're right, there's nothing wrong with 'family love' but why should a fictional species stick with that? Do you say the same with every other alien species in other media? It may not be what you want to see, but you can only speak for yourself, the same for all of us fans.

You're making this particular source material sound like Conjunx Endurae started back in 1984 with Sunbow or Marvel Comics and that I'm trying to argue against something from like 37 year ago...

The term wasn't brought up until 2016 and ended in 2018 (as far as MTMTE and Lost Light books go anyway). And no other TF project has brought it up since. So if you wish to retcon Ratchet and Drift being couple's back in 1984 then you and the thread starter will have a harder time lobbying for it them me and millions of other G1 fans will in disregarding it.

To clarify... IDW canon from 2016-2018 is all yours to enjoy when it comes to "Spark Mates". But there's so many other TF cartoons and comicbook lines made before, during and after that all TF fans DON'T have to adhere to this phase if they don't want to.

So if TF writers for future TF projects happen to see my initial post here. I hope they understand it better than some of the people in here did. I just think my opinions for this particular alien race makes better $olution$.

At no point in this discussion has anyone, to my knowledge, implied that this aspect of the storyline somehow connected to "G1". It is, as far as I can see, a celebration of (implied) homosexual/alternative interpersonal relationships between TF characters, in the IDW comics.

However, in the wider scope of all TF interpersonal relationships/sexuality, these have been a part of TF lore since G1.

Examples include:

- Elita-1 and Optimus Prime (girlfriend/boyfriend)

- Chromia and Ironhide (implied girlfriend/boyfriend)

- Powerglide and human female ("The Girl Who Loved Powerglide")

- Seaspray and "Golden Lagoon alien girl" ("The Golden Lagoon")

- Sludge and human female (UK marvel comics)

- Arcee, Hotrod and Springer (implied love triangle)

- Arcee and Daniel (implied mother/son)

- G1 Pretender and giant alien Amazonian female (UK Marvel comics)

- G1 Tracks (implied, stereotypical image of a gay man)

- Arcee (feminist issues, UK Marvel comics).

I'm sure the list could go on.

AllNewSuperRobot wrote:W

PushYouDown wrote:...man...some of you guy are wild about what you want or don't want in your hobby.

It's hilarious that anyone would try to make the claim that these "robots" shouldn't have romantic feelings or relationships. I don't understand how someone could fundamentally not understand a thing they claim to love. It seems to come from a place of believing the Transformers are non-sentient, non-living automatons
They have personalities, they have wants and desires....of course they are going to form emotional bonds. We know this from EVERY continuity. We know they have romantic emotional bonds from every continuity.

This would suggest that in lieu of relations/sexualising Transformers, that they would be bereft of personality altogether? Remove IDWverse from the equation. Now pick a random popular character and reflect on how that is usually the inverse within Transformers as a whole.

No it doesn't. That's a willful misread.

If you can accept that they are sentient creatures...and you can accept that they form friendships, have admiration, loyalty, hatred, etc. etc... why can't you accept that they would form romantic bonds?

And if you don't think they are sentient creatures but mindless automatons....where have you been? They've always had personality and emotions.

primalxconvoy wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Let's all take a step back and calm down. No one is changing any minds by shouting at each other. All that's going to do is entrench positions.

Young Prime, you're right, there's nothing wrong with 'family love' but why should a fictional species stick with that? Do you say the same with every other alien species in other media? It may not be what you want to see, but you can only speak for yourself, the same for all of us fans.

You're making this particular source material sound like Conjunx Endurae started back in 1984 with Sunbow or Marvel Comics and that I'm trying to argue against something from like 37 year ago...

The term wasn't brought up until 2016 and ended in 2018 (as far as MTMTE and Lost Light books go anyway). And no other TF project has brought it up since. So if you wish to retcon Ratchet and Drift being couple's back in 1984 then you and the thread starter will have a harder time lobbying for it them me and millions of other G1 fans will in disregarding it.

To clarify... IDW canon from 2016-2018 is all yours to enjoy when it comes to "Spark Mates". But there's so many other TF cartoons and comicbook lines made before, during and after that all TF fans DON'T have to adhere to this phase if they don't want to.

So if TF writers for future TF projects happen to see my initial post here. I hope they understand it better than some of the people in here did. I just think my opinions for this particular alien race makes better $olution$.

At no point in this discussion has anyone, to my knowledge, implied that this aspect of the storyline somehow connected to "G1". It is, as far as I can see, a celebration of (implied) homosexual/alternative interpersonal relationships between TF characters, in the IDW comics.

However, in the wider scope of all TF interpersonal relationships/sexuality, these have been a part of TF lore since G1.

Examples include:

- Elita-1 and Optimus Prime (girlfriend/boyfriend)

- Chromia and Ironhide (implied girlfriend/boyfriend)

- Powerglide and human female ("The Girl Who Loved Powerglide")

- Seaspray and "Golden Lagoon alien girl" ("The Golden Lagoon")

- Sludge and human female (UK marvel comics)

- Arcee, Hotrod and Springer (implied love triangle)

- Arcee and Daniel (implied mother/son)

- G1 Pretender and giant alien Amazonian female (UK Marvel comics)

- G1 Tracks (implied, stereotypical image of a gay man)

- Arcee (feminist issues, UK Marvel comics).

I'm sure the list could go on.

Very good examples.

Also worth noting that the other series would only expand on these themes, with the Japanese Victory Manga bringing Decepticon families into the mix and in the Zone OVA...well something was certainly hinted at.

primalxconvoy wrote:

YoungPrime wrote:

ZeroWolf wrote:Let's all take a step back and calm down. No one is changing any minds by shouting at each other. All that's going to do is entrench positions.

Young Prime, you're right, there's nothing wrong with 'family love' but why should a fictional species stick with that? Do you say the same with every other alien species in other media? It may not be what you want to see, but you can only speak for yourself, the same for all of us fans.

You're making this particular source material sound like Conjunx Endurae started back in 1984 with Sunbow or Marvel Comics and that I'm trying to argue against something from like 37 year ago...

The term wasn't brought up until 2016 and ended in 2018 (as far as MTMTE and Lost Light books go anyway). And no other TF project has brought it up since. So if you wish to retcon Ratchet and Drift being couple's back in 1984 then you and the thread starter will have a harder time lobbying for it them me and millions of other G1 fans will in disregarding it.

To clarify... IDW canon from 2016-2018 is all yours to enjoy when it comes to "Spark Mates". But there's so many other TF cartoons and comicbook lines made before, during and after that all TF fans DON'T have to adhere to this phase if they don't want to.

So if TF writers for future TF projects happen to see my initial post here. I hope they understand it better than some of the people in here did. I just think my opinions for this particular alien race makes better $olution$.

At no point in this discussion has anyone, to my knowledge, implied that this aspect of the storyline somehow connected to "G1". It is, as far as I can see, a celebration of (implied) homosexual/alternative interpersonal relationships between TF characters, in the IDW comics.

However, in the wider scope of all TF interpersonal relationships/sexuality, these have been a part of TF lore since G1.

Examples include:

- Elita-1 and Optimus Prime (girlfriend/boyfriend)

- Chromia and Ironhide (implied girlfriend/boyfriend)

- Powerglide and human female ("The Girl Who Loved Powerglide")

- Seaspray and "Golden Lagoon alien girl" ("The Golden Lagoon")

- Sludge and human female (UK marvel comics)

- Arcee, Hotrod and Springer (implied love triangle)

- Arcee and Daniel (implied mother/son)

- G1 Pretender and giant alien Amazonian female (UK Marvel comics)

- G1 Tracks (implied, stereotypical image of a gay man)

- Arcee (feminist issues, UK Marvel comics).

I'm sure the list could go on.

SMH..... Since the initial top 5 couples list are all part of IDW which was all unquestionably based off of Generation One what the h3ll is there to imply???

IDW round 1 was a new version of G1...PERIOD! And G1 lore is all I really care about.
And the most popular stand out couple in the initial G1 phase was Spike and Carly, two humans. Speculate and imply on Transformers in all these other G1 comic book issues and cartoon episodes that didn't lead to anything all you want and enjoy it all you want.

My points still stands.

YoungPrime wrote: SMH..... Since the initial top 5 couples list are all part of IDW which was all unquestionably based off of Generation One what the h3ll is there to imply???

IDW round 1 was a new version of G1...PERIOD! And G1 lore is all I really care about.
And the most popular stand out couple in the initial G1 phase was Spike and Carly, two humans. Speculate and imply on Transformers in all these other G1 comic book issues and cartoon episodes that didn't lead to anything all you want and enjoy it all you want.

My points still stands.

I'm not really sure what your "point" is, to be honest. It's an established fact that, right from the beginnings of G1, Transformers engaged in interpersonal relationships of one form or another, both with each other and "alien" races. The IDW stories, whether we accept them as "canon" or "acceptable" (depending upon on own moral/conservative/ethnic/etc backgrounds), simply added relationships not fully documented in those earlier stories.

If people have an issue with extra features to an ongoing universe, then "triple changers" are in the same boat, due to "Transformers only have two modes in the original, season 1 cartoon/comic", etc.

If your point is that you don't like it, that's fine. I'm not really happy with "established" characters bring changed that much (which might be open for criticism in of itself, admittedly), but to deny that the TF franchise can't include any forms of interpersonal relationships or issues relating to procreation (in a tasteful and hopefully child-friendly/mature manner, IMO), is rather short-sighted and outspoken, I feel. If however, your point was something else, and you feel I have inferred it incorrectly, please feel free to correct me.

primalxconvoy wrote:

YoungPrime wrote: SMH..... Since the initial top 5 couples list are all part of IDW which was all unquestionably based off of Generation One what the h3ll is there to imply???

IDW round 1 was a new version of G1...PERIOD! And G1 lore is all I really care about.
And the most popular stand out couple in the initial G1 phase was Spike and Carly, two humans. Speculate and imply on Transformers in all these other G1 comic book issues and cartoon episodes that didn't lead to anything all you want and enjoy it all you want.

My points still stands.

I'm not really sure what your "point" is, to be honest.

Bingo! And welcome to the rest of the club here.

I'm done.

@ young prime, does your G1 lore also exclude the entire episode dedicated to Powerglide's love life?

Also...

YoungPrime wrote:It's not like they ever showed Optimus and Elita share a bedroom so why is shoving same sex couples down our throats so important?

In which issue do you see Tailgate and Cyclonus share a bedroom? Look man, the online fan fic comics you read are your own business, I won't mess with it, but let me assure you the legit IDW comics had as much hanky panky as G1.

Just seeing a gay couple together, presented no different than a hetero couple, and automatically feeling like it's being shoved down your throat tells people a lot more about you than anything else.

Also a reminder to all, these messages on these boards can be seen by employers. You may all think what you write is fine by your standards, but you never know what might come and bite you in the butt later.

william-james88 wrote:@ young prime, does your G1 lore also exclude the entire episode dedicated to Powerglide's love life?

https://youtu.be/DvHPCMqbZ0I

I appreciate this list and enjoyed reading it.

I think overall, Ratchet and Drift ended up being my favorite of the group, it had the most interesting development.

Cyclonus is one of my all time favorites, but the beginning of LL kinda threw off that relationship, the ending worked out, but the first half of LL just wasn't that good, though the howl of pain from Cyclonus in 13 when he thought tailgate died and the moment he had with Whirl after really hit me.

I appreciate having these relationships in TFs. If they can war for millions of years, they can love too. And honestly, the love here is inherently limited to being together for ever and kissing. Outside that, there really isn't anything. And that works greatly. It shows that love of just having one another.

I'm glad it's here, and I hope it keeps going.

PushYouDown wrote:No it doesn't. That's a wilful misread.

That would be an assumption and a poor one.

PushYouDown wrote:If you can accept that they are sentient creatures...and you can accept that they form friendships, have admiration, loyalty, hatred, etc. etc... why can't you accept that they would form romantic bonds?

And if you don't think they are sentient creatures but mindless automatons....where have you been? They've always had personality and emotions.

You've literally just paraphrased your previous remark. To what end?